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[Woorloog]

I think radar deprivation should be a basic feature, making indirect fire only possible when cooperating with a spotter. Or against NARCed target.
Beagle Active Probe could use a boost, give it limited ability to see through terrain and buildings (within short range), considering it is supposed to be able to see hidden units. And give it target decay too.
While at it, reduce base data sharing and implement C3 system with good boosts to data sharing, limited lock decay (depended upon how many C3 participants have seen the target) and some sensor and zoom boost, and make it useful.
Generally speaking role warfare should be promoted and made better.
The Command Console needs to be redone as well, not just some silly IS Targeting Computer...

Oh and re-implement rearming and repair costs, favoring lights and mediums. And another twist: repairing a destroyed mech that has Endo-Steel should cost more, to balance its incredible utility. Ferro-Fibrous on the other hand shouldn't cost more (unlike the table top game, if you play a campaign with repairs, FF-equipped units cost way too much in the long run) than standard armor, or very little at most.

And boost single heatsinks to 1.2 cooling and heat capacity, while DHS would still be undeniably better, SHS wouldn't be so terrible anymore.
My budget (no DHS) Ravens don't actually cool down in hot maps, not without me running somewhere safe for few minutes.

 

[king picollo]

Radar Deprivation?

When did that come in and can i have a quick synopsis?

Tried to get on late last night and the servers were still down with for maintenance. They don't seem to pick the best times.

 

[Woorloog]

Radar Deprivation module. GXP cost is 15k IIRC, the actual module costs 6 million C-Bills.
If your enemy loses line of sight on you, he instantly loses target lock on you too. And this counters Adv. Target Decay module completely too.

With some speed and Radar Deprivation module, you're pretty much immune to LRMs. If you can afford the thing.

Was added with the Clan mechs, and anyone who has big enough Clan mech collection, gets at least one such module too.

 

[Giolon]

Radar Deprivation module. GXP cost is 15k IIRC, the actual module costs 6 million C-Bills.
If your enemy loses line of sight on you, he instantly loses target lock on you too. And this counters Adv. Target Decay module completely too.

With some speed and Radar Deprivation module, you're pretty much immune to LRMs. If you can afford the thing.

Was added with the Clan mechs, and anyone who has big enough Clan mech collection, gets at least one such module too.

It only came "free" with the Gold mechs. The rest of the packs didn't get that one. They got an assortment of the other new modules (AMS Overload, Shock Absorbers, Enhanced NARC, and Speed Retention.)

The 6 mil cost and 15k gxp was worth it. It's the most OP module since Seismic Sensor's original functionality (always works,even when moving and 400m range.). If they wanted to change the game so that Radar Deprivation was basic functionality, I'd be ok with that but right now, anybody who has one has a pretty decent advantage against those who don't in a lot of situations.

 

[Woorloog]

Oh, well, whatever, so many new modules. Some people still got it for "free".

I don't really pay attention to the modules, new or old, the only one i have is the advanced zoom thing for my Firebrand and it is borderline useless, regret wasting those few million C-Bills.

EDIT i actually have Radar Derp unlocked (didn't have any better use for GXP) but i won't be buying 'em as i need at least two, perhaps three (rotating multiple mechs in MM when others are still in-game). 12-18 million is way too much for me, considering how often i buy new mechs. And considering how little i die from LRMs actually (if i die from LRMs, it is because i'm stupidly in the open for some stupid reason).

EDIT oh and the game has been fucking laggy since the patch. Anyone else have this issue?

 

[king picollo]

Are the servers down again?

I'm still getting the down for maintenance message when i try and load it up?

 

[teepo]

Are the servers down again?

I'm still getting the down for maintenance message when i try and load it up?

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/165053-servers-are-under-maintenance-still/

 

[Woorloog]

Are the servers down again?

I'm still getting the down for maintenance message when i try and load it up?

It is some odd bug or something, the servers are online.
The forums had guide to fixing that... i think.

EDIT right. Teepo's post.

 

[king picollo]

Great.

How the hell have they managed to borx that up?

 

[Giolon]

Great.

How the hell have they managed to borx that up?

Here a summary from a savvy user w/ some later comment from PGI devs: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/165207-official-ish-patcher-update-issues/

The short of it is, it's probably mostly Akamai and ISP's fault, but still partly PGI's fault.

If you have an ISP that returns "helper" pages instead of a standard 404 when you enter a bad URL, the MWO patcher wasn't able to recognize that state b/c ISPs often do not return a 404 in that case (even though they are supposed to).

They're making a fixed patcher that you'll be able to get via the Repair Tool soon.

 

[Giolon]

The fix for the server maintenance issue is out now. Just run the MWO Repair Tool, which should be in your MWO directory. If it's not, you can try this older release on the forums: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/115147-mwo-repair-tool-public-release/

 

[king picollo]

Cheers will do that later, at leat they sorted it fairly sharpish.

 

[Woorloog]

NARCs are awesome!
Running with a Raven RVN-3L with a NARC launcher. That thing is a XP grinder and very useful for the team. EMP ECM and provide missile locks, what's not to love?

Also, changed my opinion about the Jenner after playing with the Raven and trying the trial Jenner. Actually pretty funny, though i'm no jumper, not after the fall damage changes. The light's high fall damage starts way too soon, and the JJs don't provide enough lift really.
I'd prefer a missile Jenner though.

But for my next mech, i'm seriously considering a Locust. Just because. It looks awesome, and... well, it is a frigging Locust, a classic. EDIT oh and more importantly, cheap. Though i will have to get XL190 or something...

EDIT it is ironic how equipping lights is kind of more expensive than equipping bigger mechs, largely due to them requiring XLs. What i already have fit many mediums and heavies... but are no good for lights :/

 

[Giolon]

But for my next mech, i'm seriously considering a Locust. Just because. It looks awesome, and... well, it is a frigging Locust, a classic. EDIT oh and more importantly, cheap. Though i will have to get XL190 or something...

Locusts are terrible. Absolutely terrible. Any time you take one, you're actively hurting your team. They're just too fragile and can't mount enough weaponry. Prior to the clans showing up, they were the only mech that could be 1-shot even when fully armored.

That being said, I love my Locusts. Especially the LCT-1V. 4MGs 1 MPL. Hang around the back of your team, keep an eye out for exposed internals on enemy mechs and then rip them apart. Also keep an eye out for mechs w/ low leg armor. You can chew through it in now time. XL180 at a minimum is basically required for that mech. It's so fast and so maneuverable. You can get in and out of places like nobody's business, and you can run under low openings like under the ramps on HPG.

So yeah, Locusts are shit. But that doesn't matter b/c I generally have a hell of a lot of fun piloting mine.

 

[Woorloog]

Locusts are terrible. Absolutely terrible. Any time you take one, you're actively hurting your team.

We could argue that any non-optimal/meta build and mech actively hurts one's team.
We could argue that any non-35/55/75/100 tonner is a bad thing (3 of each would give the team maximum possible tonnage if 3/3/3/3 matchmaking works).

My Raven is far from optimal with its short range weapons, rather pointless BAP (since i have ECM and don't use Streaks) and slowish speed for a light. And in general, i pilot less used and less optimal mechs, like Thunderbolt (used to have one, was equipped with a mix of weapons, no focus) or Hunchback (arguably Shadow Hawk is better).

Meta/optimal stuff i like is rare, though arguably i'm reactionary, i tend to avoid what is common. In MW4:Mercs, i used fast, light mechs (usually with bad results), because they were almost non-existent and jump sniping and heavier mechs were the norm. In Halo, i often prefer close combat and assault rifles to precision weapons, not because i can't use them (i can and usually well too) but rather because fuck the standards. And so on.

But it is not players duty to make up for deficiencies left by developers. If something is shit (even if it is fun), it is the developers fault for not making it better or more desirable.
I joke about Locusts when i see them but i never blame them or complain about those people.

EDIT also, another reason why i really want to try out a Locust: Finding out a build i can use with them is going to be a real challenge. Fitting one is difficult, balancing armor, speed, and everything else... Now, this does apply pretty much to every mech in the game but with smaller ones, it is a bigger challenge.

 

[Giolon]

We could argue that any non-optimal/meta build and mech actively hurts one's team.
We could argue that any non-35/55/75/100 tonner is a bad thing (3 of each would give the team maximum possible tonnage if 3/3/3/3 matchmaking works).

Yes, you could make that argument, but I feel like the Locust is so bad, it's in a special place all on its own. Again, I love zipping around in mine and enjoy the challenge and play style of knowing that a single stray round will just end you at any moment, but knowing what you're getting into is helpful. I'm not in any way trying to discourage you. It's more just a general comment on the state of those little buggers. The fall damage change hurts them particularly badly too.

 

[Woorloog]

First match with a Locust (Empyrus is me):

Not bad i'd say.

EDIT one sure thing about the Locust is that it is different to play from most others.

 

[king picollo]

Do you play conquest at all? someone was in a game i was in last night extolling the virtues of narc.

Starting to find my feet as an Atlas, the main job appears to be walking at enemies letting rip, watching them back off and my team picking them off.

I'm not even doing good damage i just have to scare them enough to break their line.

 

[Woorloog]

Do you play conquest at all? someone was in a game i was in last night extolling the virtues of narc.

I play Conquest and Skirmish, i stopped playing Assault due to River City Assault sucking so bad.

I'm not even doing good damage i just have to scare them enough to break their line.

Pretty sure the Atlas was designed to be scary mech in Battltech lore. Apparently this does work in MWO to an extent too
Until it gets NARCed...

 

[Woorloog]

So i got myself Oxide.
It is fun. Also Jenners in general are fun.
Like big Locusts... too bad there ain't no 6/8xMG Jenner...

 

[El'Kharn]

what are you running on your Oxide? i havent seen a single one since the ssrm damage was lowered.

 

[Woorloog]

what are you running on your Oxide? i havent seen a single one since the ssrm damage was lowered.

XL280, 4xSRM4, 5 tons of ammo, Endo, DHS, Ferrro, Max armor minus some head armor.

Hits hard, though i need to learn to conserve my ammo a bit.

EDIT do note that i've never been a fan of Streaks as they're implemented in MWO. I've always found SRM2 superior due to its lower weight and ability to aim it. Fast light bothering me? Either i'm dead or i'm with others and groups can deal with lights easily.

 

[K.Jack]

Decent sale going on. Went ahead and bout the Protector, Arrow, and the BJ/Orion champion mechs. Have a bunch of MC laying around so why not.

 

[El'Kharn]

I'm liking the module changes

 

[K.Jack]

I'm liking the module changes

Are you? Not being able to equip two mech modules, on some of my unmastered mediums, feels like a big hit.

It's good for arty spammers though.

 

[Giolon]

I'm liking the module changes

I'm kind of hating it. PGI claims they want to increase mech specialization but they've only reduced it. I used to specialize my RVN-3L into a scout by taking Advanced Sensor Range, Target Info Gathering, Radar Deprivation and depending on how I feel either Seismic Sensor or a UAV. Now, I can only take 2 of those.

The biggest problem I feel is that the mech modules are so unbalanced. Radar Deprivation is hands down currently the best mech module in the game for the majority of use cases. With sniping and LRM spam still a prevalent factor, the ability to disappear from radar locks the moment you break LOS is incredibly powerful. If you take that module, on most mechs you're left with 1 other option. Another incredibly strong module performer is still the Seismic Sensor.

Then you have the fact that now that nobody has to make a tradeoff between mech modules and consumables, many are just taking Arty + Air strike and now the matches are even more of Arty/Air Strike spam than they were before. Fortunately, PGI has realized people hate this and are going to limit players to taking 1 of either.

Lastly, Weapon Modules are so awful that nobody wants to use them. Getting a 10m range boost on a weapon for increased heat is pitiful. I don't want to scratch the paint negligibly farther away - I want my weapon to be more effective. If it's running hotter, it's not more effective. Then there's the fact that some weapons don't even have modules. My CPLT-A1 LRMBoat has no weapon modules available for it at all.

PGI's promising "oh this is for role warfare in the future!", but without giving us any actual concrete info it's just more of their vague handwaving "things will be awesome trust us!". Yet they just went ahead and whacked the hell out of their module system w/ nothing ready to replace it b/c reasons?

The rebalance has been applied so haphazardly. Some chassis like the JR7-K now have no reason to exist. It's a JR7-D with 1 fewer missile slot. Why would you ever take it? Previously, the answer to that was b/c it had 1 extra module slot; now it has the same number of module slots. So....why does it exist now?

At least my K2 isn't materially worse off than any other Catapult or Jagermech now...

 

[El'Kharn]

I'll be glad when they knock the arty/airstrike on the head thats for sure and weapon modules are pretty much all worthless apart from the narc (maybe? havent used it yet) and ams ones. Would have been alot better if they had given them an overhaul before the change like giving the ranges a massive boost to make them worth taking.

But it makes you have to choose what mech modules you have to take. For too long we've been able to have our cake and eat it too.

 

[K.Jack]

But who was complaining about Mech Modules? They fixed something that wasn't broken.

 

[Giolon]

But it makes you have to choose what mech modules you have to take. For too long we've been able to have our cake and eat it too.

I still had to choose. I have 6 or 7 modules, and choose 2-4 of them (sensor range + target decay + radar dep for LRM boats, target info gathering + improved gyros + radar dep for brawling, sensor range + info gathering + radar dep for scouts). Now I have to choose 1-3. When your choice is that limited, OP modules stand out even more. Right now, that stand out OP module is Radar Deprivation. Before Radar Deprivation I'd change out that 3rd module for either 360 targeting or seismic depending on the build.

 

[El'Kharn]

I cant see radar derp going on like it is for too much longer. I'tll be balanced into the ground sooner or later.
Heh the whole thing is pretty much a half finished job but maybe they are pushing for people to have multiple of the same mech so you have some variation in your modules

 

[K.Jack]

Man, there's no better feeling, than perfectly timing an LB20X shot which legs an annoying ass light.

 

[Woorloog]

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/167089-august-update-and-roll-out/
Stuff coming this month.

Note Vindicator as the next IS mech. Hero first, then standard for MC, and later, probably next month, standard for C-Bills.
In the tabletop, it is a good medium class mech, effective heat sink use, effective, all-around weapons loadout, jump capability and it isn't too slow either.
Unfortunately this means it is going to be pretty bad as it is in MWO... but then when stock mechs aren't (ignoring some Clan stocks)?
Very good news for me, considering i'm a Capellan player more or less, and i just happen to like the mech.
Now all i hope is that it actually looks good in MWW and isn't too angular and boring looking :/

Oh, yeah. Also Community Warfare module 1. Whatever that means. Honestly i've stopped caring about the CW, i'd rather they make role warfare reality...

EDIT oh, right. Spider Hero, Thor and Daishi for MC, and casual testing for 12vs10 mode in some kind official private games apparently.

EDIT 2 oh and in case someone missed it, we got a new Battlemaster hero, Hellslinger. As a neat, currently unique quirk that reduces effect of external map heat (no effect on flamers), the mech stays cooler on hot maps and doesn't cool down as much on cold maps due to ambient temperature.

 

[Giolon]

Nerf bombs coming in tomorrow:

PPCs: Velocity 1500m/s -> 850m/s
ER PPCs (Clan and IS): 1500m/s -> 950m/s

Clan ER LL: Beam Duration 1.5s -> 2.0s
Heat 8.5 -> 9.0
Ghost Heat Multiplier 3.0 -> 12.0 (an extra 8.64 heat for 2 lasers, 19 for 3)
Max simultaneous w/o Ghost Heat: 2 -> 1 (Rolled back)

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/167201-august-8th-weapon-balance-update-and-patch/unread/

PPC change has me disappointed. PPCs were at 750m/s (and TT heat values as they are now) in closed beta and they were terrible. After that they got over buffed, but now we're nearly back where they started.

C-ERLL changes all seem warranted except the ghost heat penalty kicking in at 2 lasers.

 

[Woorloog]

Wait. What. You can fire only one CERLL without ghost heat?
What kind of genius idea that is? Especially with the other nerfs.
Besides, i reckon that with 10v12 (which is going for testing so it may end up being used if the tests work out), numbers are going to win as long as clans are balanced against the IS in 12v12. I honestly don't mind the Clans have some kind tech advantage (as long as they have higher heat curve generally speaking), can't they like add a slight multiplier to the player's skill rating if they're playing with a Clan mech and balance them that way?

PPC velocity nerf. Hmm. I'd say it is too much. Slight speed nerf would been OK i think, something like PPC to 1100m/s and ERPPC to 1250m/s, but nearly halving the speeds? /facepalm

As i've said, and keep saying, whoever is responsible for balancing of the game is doing kind of terrible job.

EDIT "it works in internal tests and we have asked some high competitive players to look at it"? I reckon it means "Works in our internal test where there isn't enough people and they don't represent the average high skill* players, and we didn't listen to high competitive players, we just asked them for the sake of form", right?

*Generally speaking, balance the game for high skill players. Works for most of competitive games, and the results are better than lowering skill gap balancing for average players causes...

EDIT OMG LOL, someone calculated the weapon is actually now even more heat efficient, but i suppose that doesn't take account the ghost heat ruining it.

EDIT and naturally the next thing will be CERML nerf...

 

[K.Jack]

Vindicator? Eeehhh I'm exclusively a IS medium pilot, and I'm not at all excited for that. It doesn't do anything the Blackjack can't do better, except carry a missile hardpoint. Plus the hero mechs on Sarna look really underwhelming.

The PPC and CERLL nerfs are really heavy handed, just like every balance change PGI makes.

Did you guys play during the Clan vs IS period? Roflstomp after roflstomp.

 

[Woorloog]

There's a challenge. http://mwomercs.com/news/2014/08/914-steiner-challenge-win-mechbay
Use these mechs to gain total of 20 kills and you get a free mech bay.
Not bad... if only i actually had any one of these mechs.
Well, ignoring the Locust 1V, getting 20 kills with it in one weekend is pretty much impossible.
But since i intend to Elite Jenner Oxide, i guess i'll just buy that D Jenner... Now i wonder how much C-bills i have...

EDIT oh and since i keep forgetting the answer, unlocked (not one-shot) paints are universal, not mech-specific, right? What about patterns?

 

[Giolon]

ROFLMAO, PGI has rolled back the 1 C-ERLL ghost heat limit change.

Well, I suppose you can't say they're not listening.

All other nerfs remain in place.

 

[Woorloog]

What. They actually listened to people for once?

 

[K.Jack]

Well of the list I only own the Cicada CDA-2A(C), Griffin GRF-3M, SHD-2H(C), and a newly bought QKD-4H.

Took out the Quickdraw and got 2 kills, then next match got one in the Shadowhawk. Off to a good start. The Griffin (mastered) is my secret weapon, but the other mechs are ones I actually need to level. I never get kills in the Cicada, so screw using that.

Too bad I literally just sold my Orion-K yesterday. Bastards.

ROFLMAO, PGI has rolled back the 1 C-ERLL ghost heat limit change.

Well, I suppose you can't say they're not listening.

All other nerfs remain in place.

Good because that one was simply ridiculous. The longer beam time is already a significant nerf.

 

[Woorloog]

That laser ghost heat rollback...
The way Russ Bullock phrased it "I felt"... Like he didn't listen to people at all or what?

BTW, a lot of mechs are in C-Bills sale too.

EDIT. I can't remember. Have i bought two mech bays or have i gained one from nowhere? Haven't done the challenge yet...
EDIT uh, checking my transaction history, i've gained a mech bay from nowhere apparently. I had 4, i bought one, but now i have 6. What?

EDIT, oh fucking incredible! I get a couple of kills, but also got a team kill because one missile i fired hit a friendly instead of this enemy...

 

[K.Jack]

They listen to some, but clearly not all of the logical feedback we give. I think Russ believes he's smarter than he is. He has that it's my game I know what's best for it air about him.

btw I got my 20 kills. This triple AC2 SHD-2H is a beast. People feel the light plink of an AC2 and ignore it, not realizing they're being hit by three cannons. So often an assault mech just sits there while I'm shredding them.

Not sure why I waited so long to get into Shadowhawks, these things are awesome.

 

[Woorloog]

Me, i'm scared of AC2s...

 

[K.Jack]

Playing this mech has definitely taught me to respect them. I've never thought of AC2s as viable until now.

The drawback is that people get annoyed by the plinking, and they'll make it their mission to hunt me down.

 

[Woorloog]

I'm scared of AC2s because i used to pilot a Blackjack armed with a pair of them. Damn that was effective mech, long reach and fast rate of fire. And the cockpit shake from AC2s... hurr, i don't like to fight against them.

EDIT the fucking client crashes every time i try to close it. And mouse cursor is not bound to the window in windowed mode even though it should be, sometimes i manage to click outside the window with disastrous results.

 

[K.Jack]

I use Full Window, which makes it impossible to click out, but you can still alt-tab without minimizing the client.

 

[Woorloog]

I use Full Window, which makes it impossible to click out, but you can still alt-tab without minimizing the client.

Except the game crashes often upon alt-tabbing for me. Also looks blurry with 720 with 900 display. And the game's odd habit of forcing the game to be active window/full screen upon loading screens causes issues too. Plus it is easier to notice the game has started with windowed screen while browsing internet.
So, yeah.

EDIT oh, wait. Full Window. Hmm. Still have that resolution issue... Upping the resolution cost too much performance.
EDIT actually, i'm going to test upping the resolution, with fullscreen of course. Don't think it will be a good idea though.
EDIT increased clarity is great but not really worth the frame rate problem. Maintaining 30 is noticeably harder now.

 

[Woorloog]

So i core this guy fast. Twin ERLL plus twin AC5, a few shots destroys even an Atlas, especially when is damaged already and doesn't move.
What does the guy do? Claims i'm a hacker because he got that frozen screen glitch.
Absolutely hilarious how sore losers try to justify their loss!

Anyway. Any idea how much Kit Foxes are going to cost in C-Bills? I assume they're going to be around 5 million, without the sale there will be tomorrow. I wonder how much C-Bills i need to stock up today...

Also, went back to Quickdraws due to C-Bill sale on them. They're just... fun. I don't know why but they appeal to me, despite being somewhat medicore mechs due to their size and low tonnage and uninteresting hardpoints (unlike Jagers or Catas).

 

[Phades]

I wouldn't worry about the "re-balancing" changes until the clan mechs are released for C-bills.

The underlying mechanics in place for match making, how front load damage works, and the nature of shot placement will forever tilt the scales in one direction until the underlying issues are actually addressed. The reasoning is that those issues will become overwhelmingly more apparent as they are available to everyone enmass.

 

[Giolon]

I got accused of being a hacker yesterday too. My whole team did.

Kit Fox Prime is 6 mil. See http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/164420-omnimech-pricing-breakdown/

So far, mech prices have been in line with their tabletop prices, so you can go to sarna.net and get any costs. The Timber Wolf is a doozy.

Spoiler

26 million

.

 

[Woorloog]

Actually the prices are not in line with the TT, XL engines are considerably cheaper, and bigger mechs are also cheaper. Much less steep price curve. Which is why i asked, can't trust Sarna prices to work with this game.
EDIT actually, never mind the mech size but the XL engines are cheaper than in the TT. I think people calculated that somewhere...
EDIT "and XL engines cost about 2.66x more than their standard counterparts" In the TT they're 5 times the price.