Jaded Alyx said:Improved defensive controls, pointer based shot aiming, Classic Controller support.
You are weird.Spiegel said:Classic Controller support? YES!
Call me weird but I hated using the pointer in PES2008.
Spiegel said:PhanterLotus, this:
must be a ds game.
But then what's the point in playing it on Wii?Spiegel said:Classic Controller support? YES!
Call me weird but I hated using the pointer in PES2008.
So you can get your butt kicked online by Wiimote/'chuck adept players. It's like a fetish I suppose.wrowa said:But then what's the point in playing it on Wii?
Spiegel said:LanceStern, is that you?
Now selling 200k-300k is BAD for a non-Monster Hunter/non-blockbuster game in Japan?
Spiegel said:So my question is why don't you think that the multiple third party core bombas will affect the future potential for the Wii
Spiegel said:and why are you so close minded when we are talking about the present/future potential for the psp.
Spiegel said:The thing is, the first two years the third parties were doing better on the psp than they are doing on the wii now.
Spiegel said:Not for donnyStern.
JoshuaJSlone said:He never said "they can only realistically aspire to a horrible awful 200-300K". It's just a fact that after more than four years, the type of software that's managed to break that barrier fits a very narrow profile.
Wii's got a different situation. After two years the types of genre that break that barrier are wide. Fighters, racers, paltformers, sports, party games. However, the publisher spread that's managed to do so is pretty thin.
jeremy1456 said:Actually I'm pretty sure Sugar Village is the labelled correctly - it was announced for PSP a few weeks back.
wrowa said:But then what's the point in playing it on Wii?
Jaded Alyx said:You are weird.
Yes, this is what I'm trying to communicate. Thanks, JoshuaJSlone!
Well that's just not good enough.Spiegel said:I'm sorry :/
Not out yet. Didn't 2008 do fairly well though? Wasn't that pretty much agreed upon by most of us in here?Spiegel said:If that were true, PES2009, PowerPro, Tatsunoko Vs Capcom, Klonoa,... (games in genres that Joshua said sell well on the Wii) would be huge sellers but they aren't.
We make generalizations based on the sales that exist. If I'd been in donny's place I probably would've said 400K, though, as the 300-400K range has a bit more variety to it. Over 400K, though, there's Monster Hunter, Phantasy Star, Dissidia, and Crisis Core, with only Crisis Core being an exception to the "big on local multiplayer" thing.Spiegel said:And I have to say that it's a stupid barrier. 300k? Why? We all laughed at LanceStern sometime ago because of something similar.
Spiegel said:Mario Party 8, Mario and Sonic, Mario Kart Wii, Super Paper Mario, Mario Galaxy, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Wii Sports,.... Am I the only one noticing a trend?
If that were true, PES2009, PowerPro, Tatsunoko Vs Capcom, Klonoa,... (games in genres that Joshua said sell well on the Wii) would be huge sellers but they aren't.
So your argument is PSP's sw sales are generally good because they're better than Wii's?Spiegel said:Mario Party 8, Mario and Sonic, Mario Kart Wii, Super Paper Mario, Mario Galaxy, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Wii Sports,.... Am I the only one noticing a trend?
If that were true, PES2009, PowerPro, Tatsunoko Vs Capcom, Klonoa,... (games in genres that Joshua said sell well on the Wii) would be huge sellers but they aren't.
Weisheit said:So your argument is PSP's sw sales are generally good because they're better than Wii's?
Wii has mediocre 3rd party sales, PSP has mediocre 3rd party sales, 360 has mediocre 3rd party sales, PS3 has mediocre 3rd party sales. So yes, when compared to other platforms mediocre 3rd party sales (with two years less on the market), PSP looks just dandy (with two years more on the market). If mediocrity is what you're going for, you've found it.
Spiegel said:Mario Party 8, Mario and Sonic, Mario Kart Wii, Super Paper Mario, Mario Galaxy, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Wii Sports,.... Am I the only one noticing a trend?
Vinci said:They're either (a) fun to play in groups and competent enough to not piss you off or (b) they're of higher quality than 99% of the other stuff on the system?
Spiegel said:If that were true, PES2009, PowerPro, Tatsunoko Vs Capcom, Klonoa,... (games in genres that Joshua said sell well on the Wii) would be huge sellers but they aren't.
Vinci said:They're either (a) fun to play in groups and competent enough to not piss you off or (b) they're of higher quality than 99% of the other stuff on the system?
PES did pretty well worldwide on the Wii, methinks. Japan is just weird. PowerPro doesn't take advantage of the Wii's unique characteristics, which is vital for attracting the userbase. [Seriously, a baseball game that doesn't allow for motion? On the Wii?] People have a fighter in Smash Bros, plus I'm doubtful TvC was going to do well on any system. And Klonoa? Was this ever really a sales juggernaut? Great game though.
HK-47 said:You are right on Klonoa, but TvC and PowerPro reek of excuses
Spiegel said:Okay, I give up.
My point is: The Wii has yet to prove that it can be a good system for third party games. Selling lots of Nintendo games on a Nintendo console means nothing, jeez even the Gamecube had Mario Kart, Mario Party, Smash Bros, Mario platforming, Zelda, Mario RPG tresspasing the 400k (ahuahua) barrier
The potential can be a good thing but when you have two systems where third parties are doing significantly BETTER (DS) and better in general (psp) it's not that crazy to think that maybe the third party ship will sail before that potential comes to play after so many bombs.
schuelma said:2-What Wii's overall/1st party software sales tell me is that Wii owners *do* buy software. Now, its mostly 1st party software at the moment, but at least companies know that the install base will buy games, its just their job to figure out how to tap into that audience.
Could not agree more. Wii's total sw sales pretty much obliterate PSP's. It still bothers me when people want to discuss sw sales while completely ignoring Nintendo.schuelma said:2-What Wii's overall/1st party software sales tell me is that Wii owners *do* buy software. Now, its mostly 1st party software at the moment, but at least companies know that the install base will buy games, its just their job to figure out how to tap into that audience.
schuelma said:2 points
1- Most of the GC franchises are doing significantly better on Wii. That tells me there is a bigger audience.
2-What Wii's overall/1st party software sales tell me is that Wii owners *do* buy software. Now, its mostly 1st party software at the moment, but at least companies know that the install base will buy games, its just their job to figure out how to tap into that audience.
ksamedi said:Yep. There's no point in differentiating first and third party games. The general consumer is not that aware of companies. They just buy what they think will be fun. Nintendo knows what the consumer wants because they actually make games with the general consumer in mind. They have always been a huge salesforce in Japan.
HK-47 said:You are right on Klonoa, but TvC and PowerPro reek of excuses
ksamedi said:Yep. There's no point in differentiating first and third party games. The general consumer is not that aware of companies.
Weisheit said:Could not agree more. Wii's total sw sales pretty much obliterate PSP's. It still bothers me when people want to discuss sw sales while completely ignoring Nintendo.
Fixed that for you.Kittonwy said:I'm glad WKC is still hanging in the top 10 after 3 weeks
charlequin said:Just as I've been typing this, actually, I've been putting together a new alternate theory (just an idea, so far, not anything I want to defend strongly yet):maybe the fairly consistent B- level of software on Wii may be depressing software sales across the board as people feel like they'd rather buy nothing for their Wii rather than make their only purchase something niche and marginal.
schuelma said:I think its valid to differentiate them- there is a built in Nintendo audience that makes software like Mario Party sell like it does. But I do think its pretty disengenuous to just totally ignore huge software just because it is 1st party. Don't see very many here downplaying WKC because its published by Sony..
charlequin said:Well, what's your alternate interpretation? That Wii owners just hate games?
In general, the performance of software combines factors of timing, marketing, characteristics of the userbase, and characteristics of the software itself. By calling these "excuses," you're saying that Vinci is attributing these poor sales to characteristics of the software when actually it's the userbase that's hurting them, right?
I've gotten yelled at in these threads a lot for talking shit about Nintendo's third-party strategy and the success level of Wii titles, but I don't actually think the case to be made against the Wii userbase is that strong, simply because I don't think people have proposed a coherent model for why so many people are buying Wiis but don't want to buy software.
Just as I've been typing this, actually, I've been putting together a new alternate theory (just an idea, so far, not anything I want to defend strongly yet):maybe the fairly consistent B- level of software on Wii may be depressing software sales across the board as people feel like they'd rather buy nothing for their Wii rather than make their only purchase something niche and marginal.
I disagree. The general consumer isn't completely brand-agnostic; they tend to have some awareness of big brands (Nintendo, Square-Enix, Capcom, Konami), but not be tremendously clear on the distinction between publisher and developer, or be cognizant of smaller developer names.
People do have broad concepts like "this is a Nintendo game," though, especially since Nintendo does a lot of cross-marketing (things like Smash, which helpfully tells people exactly what games qualify.) There are definitely consumers who will buy something that has Mario in it, or is otherwise somehow clearly identified to them as "a Nintendo game," partially out of brand trust.
ksamedi said:I agree with what you say. What I was trying to say is that I'm not sure if brand loyalty to Nintendo is the reason certain third party software is failing. software sales should be much higher even with the huge first party succeses. I think shuelma is right here, big games build the userbase and apatite for other kinds of software as well. What the Wii misses are big third party games. Nintendo has built the userbase for their own kind of games with releaing quality product. We have yet to see this from other companies. This is also in line with your theory.
But aren't you just reinforcing Spiegel's point about too-high expectations (though not his conclusions drawn from that)? Your list indicates that the only system with non-mediocre third-party sales is DS. . .Japan's highest-selling video game system ever. What's the paradigm case, PS2? Japan's second-highest-selling video game system ever? Defining "mediocre" so it applies to nearly everything seems like an abuse of the term.Weisheit said:So your argument is PSP's sw sales are generally good because they're better than Wii's?
Wii has mediocre 3rd party sales, PSP has mediocre 3rd party sales, 360 has mediocre 3rd party sales, PS3 has mediocre 3rd party sales. So yes, when compared to other platforms mediocre 3rd party sales (with two years less on the market), PSP looks just dandy (with two years more on the market). If mediocrity is what you're going for, you've found it.
donny2112 said:Similar to schuelma's position that third-parties started with the mid-tier games first without ever building up the userbase with the top-tier games?
ksamedi said:I agree with what you say. What I was trying to say is that I'm not sure if brand loyalty to Nintendo is the reason certain third party software is failing.
PantherLotus said:If somebody would like to start doing a pub count similar to Jason Cheng's System Count I would love to include it in the OP.
Kurosaki Ichigo said:to tell why Media Create numbers are so different between those from Panther OP and those from bttb from previously legit dblog site I'd appreciate it.
Don't forget co-op. Co-op.Jaded Alyx said:Improved defensive controls, pointer based shot aiming, Classic Controller support.
You are right that the total Wii software sales is better than the total PSP software sales. The Wii and the PSP has sold about as much software each, but the PSP has been out for maybe around 1.5 years longer or so compared to the Wii. So looking at the total software sales compared to how long these 2 systems has been on the market, the total Wii software sales are better indeedWeisheit said:Could not agree more. Wii's total sw sales pretty much obliterate PSP's. It still bothers me when people want to discuss sw sales while completely ignoring Nintendo.
Indeed, or if you remove the Wii games that are made and/or published by Nintendo themself from the Wii (i know it might not be a too fair comparison to remove many Wii games and just 1 PSP game though, but do you see what my point is? ).jeremy1456 said:Selectively removing companies can help numbers look better on either side.
Like, say if you were to remove Capcom sales from the PSP. The outlook of software sales would not be good...
That is an interesting question i think, why does it seem that relatively few 3rd party Wii games doesnt get much adverticing? Does anyone have any idea? I would assume that when you use maybe 1-2 years (or how long it takes) to develope a game, that you would like your game to sell. If you dont advertice the game at all, then there might be a less chance for the game(s) to sell well. Adverticing might be expencive, but still :\jeremy1456 said:I think a big part of it is that most 3rd party games on the Wii seem to get little to no advertisement.
HK-47 said:You are right on Klonoa, but TvC and PowerPro reek of excuses
Flying_Phoenix said:TvC was a budget game for Capcom as Tatsunoko asked Capcom to make the game not the other way around. I mean there is a reason why the gamewas lowkey both on the Wii AND the arcades.
How much did it cost to make TvC?Flying_Phoenix said:TvC was a budget game for Capcom as Tatsunoko asked Capcom to make the game not the other way around. I mean there is a reason why the gamewas lowkey both on the Wii AND the arcades.
He's right about Tatsunoko approaching Capcom, but it's hardly 'budget'.ccbfan said:You love stating (or making up) random things with no links don't you?
ccbfan said:You love stating (or making up) random things with no links don't you?