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[schuelma]

That's the point. PSP bombas are something unacceptable, Wii bombas are no big deal.

Who is saying that? I haven't seen anyone in this thread say Wii 3rd party sales are good in a long time.

 

[cw_sasuke]

That's the point. PSP bombas are something unacceptable, Wii bombas are no big deal.

You`re tying to hard i think. No one say that Wii 3rd Party sales are good but it`s not like Wii has been getting the best stuff from 3rd Partys yet. If Games like Tales, Monster Hunter, Samurai Warriors 3, Crystal Bearers etc. bomb, then its over.

 

[Spiegel]

Who is saying that? I haven't seen anyone in this thread say Wii 3rd party sales are good in a long time.

Where are you getting that?

Saying that the wii bombas are no big deal is not saying that Wii 3rd party sales are good.

You`re tying to hard i think. No one say that Wii 3rd Party sales are good but it`s not like Wii has been getting the best stuff from 3rd Partys yet. If Games like Tales, Monster Hunter, Samurai Warriors 3, Crystal Bearers etc. bomb, then its over.

Trying hard?

No, it's just that I love the double standards of a lot of people here

 

[Pureauthor]

That's the point. PSP bombas are something unacceptable, Wii bombas are no big deal.

I distinctly remember the period where Soul Calibur Legends, NiGHTS Wii, Chocobo Mysterious Dungeon and something else all came out at the same timed and bombed. There were many, many cries of DOOOOOOOOOMED

 

[schuelma]

Where are you getting that?

Saying that the wii bombas are no big deal is not saying that Wii 3rd party sales are good.

I think you're grossly misstating/exaggerating most people's positions here.

I don't think anyone is saying Wii 3rd party sales are good.

What some people are saying is that its more complicated than just saying "Wii 3rd party games are all bombs LOLZ".

There are some 3rd party games where it might not be the fault of the userbase that they didn't sell. Some games probably are (I think Tenchu would have done better on another system for example).

 

[schuelma]

I distinctly remember the period where Soul Calibur Legends, NiGHTS Wii, Chocobo Mysterious Dungeon and something else all came out at the same timed and bombed. There were many, many cries of DOOOOOOOOOMED

I was actually just thinking about that time period actually- I think the blaming of the Wii userbase for Chocobo and NiGHTS might have been premature. The PS2 NiGHTS remake did even worse than JoD, and the Chocobo DS port was performing similarly to the Wii version. In those cases I think it's a possibility that much of the problem was the IP itself and not the platform.

Of course I still can't figure out the We Love Golf bomb from that time period. That's a IP that should have done very well.

 

[Spiegel]

I think you're grossly misstating/exaggerating most people's positions here.

I don't think anyone is saying Wii 3rd party sales are good.

What some people are saying is that its more complicated than just saying "Wii 3rd party games are all bombs LOLZ".

There are some 3rd party games where it might not be the fault of the userbase that they didn't sell. Some games probably are (I think Tenchu would have done better on another system for example).

Again, WHERE have I said that anyone is saying Wii 3rd party sales are good?

I distinctly remember the period where Soul Calibur Legends, NiGHTS Wii, Chocobo Mysterious Dungeon and something else all came out at the same timed and bombed. There were many, many cries of DOOOOOOOOOMED

But now, after lots of bombs and a few third party successes the situation is better, isn't it?

 

[schuelma]

Again, WHERE have I said that anyone is saying Wii 3rd party sales are good?

Err ok.. I apologize if I'm misstating your position. I'll restate my original point- I don't think anyone here is saying that all Wii bombas are no big deal.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

F-Zero GX (Unlikely - control issues. The game would have to be significantly redesigned to work with the looser motion control.)

I wouldn't put this in the likely category, but if they don't insist on using Excite Truck/Mario Kart type of steering I think it can work. When playing around with using wiimote on PC with N64 emulation, F-Zero X was one of my favorites. Most of the stick/buttons could be mapped right over, but I did things like control the vehicle bumps by swiping the wiimote left or nunchuk right, or boost by tilting both forward quickly.

Not to quote other parts of your list, but "Out - full sequel on Wii already" doesn't convince me by itself. In that case, Metroid Prime 1 and 2 should be out of consideration. In a case like Pokémon Colosseum, sure, the sequel is basically a replacement. But for games where there are unique stories and/or worlds, that's not such a problem.

Again, WHERE have I said that anyone is saying Wii 3rd party sales are good?

Well then what double standard are you talking about?

 

[freddy]

When a good title from a proven franchise in a genre that sells on other platforms comes out on the Wii in Japan and bombs it will be a big deal. If the likes ofMonster Hunter or Dragon Quest bombs it will be a big deal. It will be telling in a way that can't be denied. The Baseball game is pretty telling given its success on Sony platforms. TvsC not as much, but worrying if you want to see Street fighter 4 on the Wii.

The titles that are bombing now aren't big deals so when they bomb it isn't a big deal either. It's a deal, just not a big one at the moment.

 

[ccbfan]

Actually can anyone list PSP bombs since the introduction of the 2000 series?

The only one I can think of is Prinny (originally I thought the last tales port was a bomb but after seeing how the recent new original main tales games are selling. The port isn't really a bomb anymore)

 

[cvxfreak]

By the time the 2000 rolled around, the PSP was nearly 3 years old and companies knew better than to release stuff that was unproven on the platform.

The PSP's catalog today is so different from what it was when it first launched. I still get nostalgic for the Japanese PSP launch from time to time. Ridge Racers and Lumines...

 

[HiResDes]

So no 360 title in the top 50, man that just seems so ridiculous to me, the fact that Microsoft is pouring a crapload of money into the eastern market and yet it seems to all find its way down in the depths of Japan's sewage system.

 

[jrricky]

Name some of them since the Wii launch. And how much more those third party games should have sold ?

It's easy, here's the list:

http://garaph.info/gamesearch.php?t...d2=&gameid=&orderby=SalesLTD+DESC&res1=&res2=

:lol I shouldnt even answer this. You just posted your own demise in that link.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I don't really think it's enough to put a good title on the Wii. You need to advertise it, get people excited for it.

I've seen western developers (and even some Japanese developers) do this for their titles on the PS3 and 360, but not many do it on the Wii.

It's a bad thing when people don't know about your title. I don't know why people don't add preview discs with their games. Seems like it would be a cheap way to get the word out there about upcoming stuff.

 

[John Harker]

Nice to see Suikoden hanging in at almost the exact same position. Any estimates to where it sits round now, grand scheme?

Still on par with all the other 100k DS RPGs, which is like, I don't know, 12 or so :lol
So it seems like that audience all picked it up and the "Suikoden" crowd pretty much ignored it

 

[jarrod]

By the time the 2000 rolled around, the PSP was nearly 3 years old and companies knew better than to release stuff that was unproven on the platform.

The PSP's catalog today is so different from what it was when it first launched. I still get nostalgic for the Japanese PSP launch from time to time. Ridge Racers and Lumines...

Yeah, this is true. In year two especially the platform saw lots of noted bombs (Rockman remakes, UGNG, Tokobot, Ridge Racers 2, Ace Combat X, Musou P2, AC!D2, Innocent Life, pretty much everything from Sega, etc).

 

[Spiegel]

Well then what double standard are you talking about?

Can you read what I've posted?

"PSP bombas are something unacceptable, Wii bombas are no big deal."

Zero big franchises have underperformed on the psp, plenty of medium franchises have sold well and some titles have bombed. People knowing this says psp is not a good fit for third party games. Now the same people says Wii is a better fit for third parties in Japan when the Wii has only proved that it's a good fit for Nintendo games/party games and HUGE franchises.

People excuses wii titles bombing because there aren't big titles released. The truth is, the number of BIG third party psp games and the number of BIG third party wii games in the first two years is not that different.

For example, Square Enix released nothing for the psp (a party game and a psx port), Capcom released ports (Monster Hunter) and low key franchises (classic Megaman, Ghosts n' Ghoblins).

But supossedly the ports and B franchises had to set the psp charts on fire.

Yeah, this is true. In year two especially the platform saw lots of noted bombs (Rockman remakes, UGNG, Tokobot, Ridge Racers 2, Ace Combat X, Musou P2, AC!D2, Innocent Life, pretty much everything from Sega, etc).

Ace Combat X bomba? 130k
Ridge Racer Expansion bomba? No shit, it was the same game but ended selling 70k
And Sega games? Yeah, psp has had awesome sega support...

The rest are low "budget" games like the lots of wii bombas

 

[schuelma]

People excuses wii titles bombing because there aren't big titles released. The truth is, the number of BIG third party psp games and the number of BIG third party wii games in the first two years is not that different.
.

Yeah come on I really don't think that is true.

 

[test_account]

So no 360 title in the top 50, man that just seems so ridiculous to me, the fact that Microsoft is pouring a crapload of money into the eastern market and yet it seems to all find its way down in the depths of Japan's sewage system.

Ye, i wonder how much money Microsoft has used to get those exclusive (and timed exclusive) RPGs in Japan and how much money they have made on this. I would assume that Microsoft have used money on getting these exclusive RPGs at least, since i cant really see why the games wont come to PS3 as well if Microsoft havnt payed anything for it, but who knows.

Others have probably mention this before me, but i also think that maybe Microsoft is trying to get the Xbox 360 (and perhaps the next Xbox to come as well) to be known for the console where you can get good RPG games, especially in the japanese gaming market.

:lol I shouldnt even answer this. You just posted your own demise in that link.

How do you mean? If a game sells for example 50,000 copies (or maybe even lower like for example 10,000 copies) it doesnt necessarily mean that the game is a bomb, if hat is what you are reffering to? (seeing that there are several of PSP games on that list that has sold under for example 50,000).

 

[Spiegel]

Yeah come on I really don't think that is true.

Yeah come on, name those lots of BIG BUDGET games in the first two years please.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I was afraid Famitsu would combine the last week of 2008 and the first week of 2009. I wonder where their Top 100/500 lists will cut off? If it ends with the week of December 22 - December 28 we should be able to deduce almost all of the Top 30 for each week.

Actually can anyone list PSP bombs since the introduction of the 2000 series?

The only one I can think of is Prinny (originally I thought the last tales port was a bomb but after seeing how the recent new original main tales games are selling. The port isn't really a bomb anymore)

Defining a bomb and coming up with a list on PSP is beyond me at the moment, but to give a starting point for potentials, here are PSP games released since PSP-2000 that have known totals lower than 100K so far.

 

[Cipherr]

Can you read what I've posted?

I just went back and read what you posted and I still cant seem to find who or what your arguing with. I see a guy saying that PSP and Wii are often argued along the same lines when it comes to their mediocre third party performances, and then you respond by saying "Exactly, see theres a double standard" when thats not what he said, he was arguing that both are somewhat equal. You responded to him as if he was cutting the Wii some slack but holding the PSP to a higher standard.

But he wasn't, I think thats why people are asking you "what double standard". You should go back and read it IMO.

 

[Spiegel]

I just went back and read what you posted and I still cant seem to find who or what your arguing with. I see a guy saying that PSP and Wii are often argued along the same lines when it comes to their mediocre third party performances, and then you respond by saying "Exactly, see theres a double standard" when thats not what he said, he was arguing that both are somewhat equal. You responded to him as if he was cutting the Wii some slack but holding the PSP to a higher standard.

But he wasn't, I think thats why people are asking you "what double standard". You should go back and read it IMO.

And you should read everything in the post you have quoted. It's explained there

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Can you read what I've posted?

"PSP bombas are something unacceptable, Wii bombas are no big deal."

But you started railing on this based on a donny2112 quote about few PSP games passing 300K, and that companies should budget accordingly? Did you leave out a quote of him saying that they should put all their high-budget high-expectations games on Wii?

 

[Spiegel]

But you started railing on this based on a donny2112 quote about few PSP games passing 300K, and that companies should budget accordingly? Did you leave out a quote of him saying that they should put all their high-budget high-expectations games on Wii?

No, you missed previous arguments between he and me about where are third parties going to put ps2-like games now. It's all related.

 

[jarrod]

Ace Combat X bomba? 130k
Ridge Racer Expansion bomba? No shit, it was the same game but ended selling 70k
And Sega games? Yeah, psp has had awesome sega support...

The rest are low "budget" games like the lots of wii bombas

Uh, Ace Combat X and Ridge Racers 2 both sold 20-30k 1st week and never charted again iirc. That's in line with agreed upon Wii "bombs" like Chocobo Dungeon, which like RRs2 crawled to 70k territory eventually. You never know, TastuCap may do similarly.

Where are you getting the ACX ltd btw?

Sega's list included IPs like Virtua Tennis, Sakura Taisen, Puyo Puyo, Initial D... granted most were ports, but it's not like Sega didn't throw the platform a decent effort early on. It was better than their DS lineup at the time by far.

 

[bttb]

.

 

[test_account]

Uh, Ace Combat X and Ridge Racers 2 both sold 20-30k 1st week and never charted again iirc. That's in line with agreed upon Wii "bombs" like Chocobo Dungeon, which like RRs2 crawled to 70k territory eventually. You never know, TastuCap may do similarly.

Where are you getting the ACX ltd btw?

Sega's list included IPs like Virtua Tennis, Sakura Taisen, Puyo Puyo, Initial D... granted most were ports, but it's not like Sega didn't throw the platform a decent effort early on. It was better than their DS lineup at the time by far.

http://garaph.info/softwareindividual.php?gameid=336 (LTD = 104,017)
http://garaph.info/softwareindividual.php?gameid=2941 (LTD = 29,337)

Total LTD for both the versions = 133,354 to be exact

EDIT: I know you asked Spiegel, but i guess maybe he got his LTD numbers from Garaph.info, so i posted them instead

 

[schuelma]

Yeah come on, name those lots of BIG BUDGET games in the first two years please.

It's not just about big budget- its about 3rd parties putting PS2/core gamer franchises on a platform. 3rd parties IMO gave PSP a pretty healthy amount of that in its first two years.

Wii? I really don't think so.

 

[donny2112]

I was afraid Famitsu would combine the last week of 2008 and the first week of 2009.

That's how they usually do it, and it's these kind of combined weeks that I really appreciate getting 1-30 from the Famitsu leaks. Extra-Top 30, I always appreciate.

I wonder where their Top 100/500 lists will cut off? If it ends with the week of December 22 - December 28 we should be able to deduce almost all of the Top 30 for each week.

It should be 20081228. We already have the Top 20s for each week (exact numbers), total for the two weeks (exact numbers), and the rest of the data from the Top 30 in rounded form. The Monthly Top 20 should help some, too.

Edit:
Thanks, bttb!

Edit2:

No, you missed previous arguments between he and me about where are third parties going to put ps2-like games now.

I remember discussing that companies need to lower their expectations from typical PS2 levels if they want to put their game on the PSP due to the different levels of software sales seen between the two consoles.

 

[jarrod]

http://garaph.info/softwareindividual.php?gameid=336 (LTD = 104,017)
http://garaph.info/softwareindividual.php?gameid=2941 (LTD = 29,337)

Total LTD for both the versions = 133,354 to be exact

Ah thanks.

It's under the radar perfomance actually kind of mirrors "retroactive successes" on Wii like PES 2008, Family Ski, and Family Trainer. Not bad at all really.

 

[Spiegel]

Uh, Ace Combat X and Ridge Racers 2 both sold 20-30k 1st week and never charted again iirc. That's in line with agreed upon Wii "bombs" like Chocobo Dungeon, which like RRs2 crawled to 70k territory eventually. You never know, TastuCap may do similarly.

Where are you getting the ACX ltd btw?

Sega's list included IPs like Virtua Tennis, Sakura Taisen, Puyo Puyo, Initial D... granted most were ports, but it's not like Sega didn't throw the platform a decent effort early on. It was better than their DS lineup at the time by far.

Again, Ridge Racer 2 IS Ridge Racer 1 (i.e the exact same game) + few courses/cars more. It was a joke, not a new game but I suppose you have not played it.

ACX + best = 130k+
ACX sold 50k+ first week, not 25k
http://garaph.info/gamesearch.php?t...2=&sltd1=&sltd2=&gameid=&orderby=&res1=&res2=

Those Sega games are low key/ports (VT, ST).
Puyo Puyo sold EXACTLY the same as the ds version
Yeah, Initial D only sold 100k+, that's so bad.

I remember discussing that companies need to lower their expectations from typical PS2 levels if they want to put their game on the PSP due to the different levels of software sales seen between the two consoles.

Of course, if the release ps2-like games with lower budget/effort they have to lower their expectations.

 

[cw_sasuke]

SO now that they include a MH Tri Demo - how much will MHG on Wii sell ?

 

[schuelma]

SO now that they include a MH Tri Demo - how much will MHG on Wii sell ?

Been wondering that myself. I'd say Capcom has pretty high expectations for it given the release date and the 90K controller bundle..

 

[jarrod]

Again, Ridge Racer 2 IS Ridge Racer 1 (i.e the exact same game) + few courses/cars more. It was a joke, not a new game but I suppose you have not played it.

ACX + best = 130k+
ACX sold 50k+ first week, not 25k
http://garaph.info/gamesearch.php?t...2=&sltd1=&sltd2=&gameid=&orderby=&res1=&res2=

Those Sega games are low key/ports (VT, ST).
Puyo Puyo sold EXACTLY the same as the ds version
Yeah, Initial D only sold 100k+, that's so bad.

LOL. Okay, you got me on ACX first week... for some reason I confused the best version's ltd with the original's 1st week. :/

If it makes you feel better, let's sub in Taiko PSP. An IP which coincidentally has now replaced Tales as Namco's strongest. :lol

Virtua Tennis PSP wasn't exactly a port either, it was ground up and had new content iirc. It did reuse assets though. 100k might sound good for Initial D, but not when you consider the PS2 version sold over three times as much. For Puyo, I was talking Puyo 2 (ie: not launch). It sorta bombed on DS also though... if you want to make things really embarrassing for PSP though, we can compare Puyo Anniversary on PSP and DS. :lol

 

[Spiegel]

If it makes you feel better, let's sub in Taiko PSP. An IP which coincidentally has now replaced Tales as Namco's strongest. :lol

Yeah, playing a Taiko game without drum sticks/stylus makes so much sense. It's like playing DDR without dance mat, AWESOME!

And even then, they sold 60k.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I wouldn't put this in the likely category, but if they don't insist on using Excite Truck/Mario Kart type of steering I think it can work. When playing around with using wiimote on PC with N64 emulation, F-Zero X was one of my favorites. Most of the stick/buttons could be mapped right over, but I did things like control the vehicle bumps by swiping the wiimote left or nunchuk right, or boost by tilting both forward quickly.

To my mind, that's the only way you could make motion controls work with a twitch racer like F-Zero and I'm not sure that would be compelling enough for someone who missed/skipped it the first time to pick it up.

Not to quote other parts of your list, but "Out - full sequel on Wii already" doesn't convince me by itself. In that case, Metroid Prime 1 and 2 should be out of consideration. In a case like Pokémon Colosseum, sure, the sequel is basically a replacement. But for games where there are unique stories and/or worlds, that's not such a problem.

Yeah, I take your point there but I think for most of the games on the list that I noted like that their replacements are basically superior editions. As you say, games like Metroid Prime are a bit of an exception - MP3's puzzles, worlds and game systems aren't identical or necessarily superior to MP1 or MP2, they're just different.

And of course the Pikmin re-releases are serving as a "warm-up" to Pikmin 3, so there is precedent for releasing a game even if a sequel is in the offing.

 

[jarrod]

Yeah, playing a Taiko game without drum sticks/stylus makes so much sense. It's like playing DDR without dance mat, AWESOME!

And even then, they sold 60k.

Wait, so 15k 1st week isn't a bomb now?!

We may have to revise some of these Wii games then!

 

[cvxfreak]

2008 Top 100 *should* be in the next Famitsu. If not, the one after that. Can't wait to see the Top 500 myself.

 

[TJ Spyke]

Wait, so 15k 1st week isn't a bomb now?!

We may have to revise some of these Wii games then!

For a game like Taiko, I don't think it would be considered a bomb.

 

[Spiegel]

Wait, so 15k 1st week isn't a bomb now?!

We may have to revise some of these Wii games then!

No, I'm saying that a Taiko game without you know, PLAYING WITH SOME STICKS/STYLUS is pointless. The psp games are gimped and of course they are going to sell like shit if the only way to play is with the d-pad/buttons.

Have you ever played a Taiko game?

 

[Stumpokapow]

No, I'm saying that a Taiko game without you know, PLAYING WITH SOME STICKS/STYLUS is pointless. The psp games are gimped and of course they are going to sell like shit if the only way to play is with the d-pad/buttons.

Have you played a Taiko game?

What, you mean it's possible that there are reasons that games bomb? And that reason could be related to the game and its positioning rather than the console it's on?

 

[Spiegel]

What, you mean it's possible that there are reasons that games bomb? And that reason could be related to the game and its positioning rather than the console it's on?

I like you, tell me more about that.

 

[ksamedi]

What, you mean it's possible that there are reasons that games bomb? And that reason could be related to the game and its positioning rather than the console it's on?

That really is what he thinks. Strange indeed.

 

[jarrod]

No, I'm saying that a Taiko game without you know, PLAYING WITH SOME STICKS/STYLUS is pointless. The psp games are gimped and of course they are going to sell like shit if the only way to play is with the d-pad/buttons.

Have you ever played a Taiko game?

The DS game is drumless (ie: gimped), but that hasn't held it back in the slightest. Granted tapping a touch screen is arguably more faithful a recreation than button presses but still, it's gimped. Shouldn't there have been some degree of dropoff then according to you, or with your vast Taiko experience do you consider tapping fully equal to the drum?

Anyway, it sounds like we might be getting close to "excusable Wii bombs" territory now. Best tread lightly.

 

[schuelma]

I like you, tell me more about that.

Ha ha! You fool! You are about to fall victim to one of the classic blunders of Sales Age! The most famous is never cite random sales figures from Europe, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against Stump when sales are on the line!!

 

[Spiegel]

Sure, all the Wii bombas are produced because publishers gimp the input on musical games where the experience is BASED entirely on that input. It's pretty close no, what I say, it's exactly the same case.

Anyway, I love how you change the subject and leave unresponded previous argumentations. But hey, how could I argue with some of the best Wii apologists (I know, you aren't wii apologists) that I've ever seen. And how could I have mentioned that MAYBE the psp has a better enviroment for third party games right now.

I'm just crazy

Jarrod, believe what you want. The ds version is not gimped compared with the console games: cheaper + more practical + the same experience

 

[jarrod]

LOL

You really don't see it huh?

 

[Spiegel]

LOL

You really don't see it huh?

See what? That I'm excusing a bomba on the psp?

You know, having the problem of an userbase not buying B-tier games (Wii) has nothing to do with an input gimped musical game. But maybe I'm missing something

One has an easy solution, the other... well, who knows