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[charlequin]

More like Opoona gets reinforcements. When people buy Galaxy, they will see Opoona as the new release next to it. 2 games for waiting a long time in line..seems great.

Yeah, that's usually how it works when a niche game no one really cares about comes out the same day as a giant blockbuster.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

They've got built-in storage, a download channel, and the precedent of making their own Metroid Prime 3 Preview Channel. Do we have reason to believe they're turning away other publishers wishing to do similar promotions?

 

[Phife Dawg]

Like I said:

Strange though, they published TC here in Europe and did a pretty good job. For a super low budget game like this it sure did well on the charts too.

Also I don't see why it should be mandatory for Nintendo to promote a Capcom game. Did Sony help Sega out with their PS3 titles?

The lack of demos is due to the system's limitations.

I'd like to see Opoona surprise us all and sell >100k first week.

Watch it crash and burn.

 

[ethelred]

Nope, not given the effort Sony and Microsoft have both put historically into pushing third party titles, and (more importantly) building up frameworks that support them. The demo thing is a great example: both other current consoles can deliver playable previews of upcoming games to potential buyers, something that's almost certainly done a lot to improve sales of good games. Nintendo don't have a similar structure in place, nor any other obvious support for the companies who've thrown their hat (however tentatively) into their ring.

Mm hmm. And it goes beyond that, too. Both Sony and Microsoft have at times worked not only to heavily court third parties, but also to help ensure that that courtship yielded rewarding fruit -- people have commented several times about the extensive promotion Microsoft has done for a variety of games. There's a lot that Nintendo could be doing right now that it simply isn't. Ad blitzing some of these games, providing demos, and so on.

Of course, the irony here is that Nintendo isn't even promoting its own games, so how can they be expected to promote someone else's? But if they expect gamers to give them any sort of shrift this generation, they need to get on that right quick.

Also I don't see why it should be mandatory for Nintendo to promote a Capcom game. Did Sony help Sega out with their PS3 titles?

Sony has certainly helped out plenty of companies over the years. So has Microsoft. It is not mandatory for Nintendo to do so, but if they expect to build the sort of relationship with third parties that the other two companies have, it's certainly a requisite step. And if they want to see third party games start performing better on their system (which should certainly be the goal for any first party hardware manufacturer), in order to ensure third parties continue to stick it out with quality, innovative products, then yes, perhaps stepping off the pedestal for a bit might help.

The lack of demos is due to the system's limitations.

Limitations that need to be addressed through concrete steps instead of glib remarks about refrigerators.

 

[schuelma]

Limitations that need to be addressed through concrete steps instead of glib remarks about refrigerators.

That line was just flat out insulting.

 

[donny2112]

Famitsu Oct 8-14

1. PS2 Dragon Ball Z Sparking! Meteor 52586 / 214338
2. NDS Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Darkness/Time 43957 / 956478
3. NDS DS Nishimura Kyotarou Suspense Detective Series: Deadly Intent 43645 / NEW
4. PSP Gundam Battle Chronicle 37129 / 123667
5. PS3 Lair 26119 / NEW
6. PS2 Arcana Heart 24930 / NEW
7. NDS Archaic Sealed Heat 23944 / 82046
8. PS2 Jikkyou Power Pro Major League 2 18802 / 61748
9. NDS Kanji Quiz DS 2 16677 / 60350
10. PSP MGS: Portable Ops+ 16205 / 168873
11. NDS Tamagotchi no Puchi Puchi Omisecchi: Mina San Kyu 15566 / 83082
12. NDS Tashiten: Tashite 10 ni Suru Monogatari 15347 / NEW
13. PSP Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII 14762 / 705311
14. WII Dragon Ball Z Sparking! Meteor 14288 / 49071
15. NDS Observation Training 11481 / 601466
16. NDS Mario Kart DS 11469 / 2479205
17. WII Wii Sports 10979 / 2026935
18. WII Wii Play 10246 / 1592497
19. NDS My Housekeeping Diary 9978 / 242112
20. WII Mario Party 8 9488 / 854758
21. PS2 Jissen Pachi-Slot Hisshouhou: Fist of the North Star 2 9340 / NEW
22. NDS Taiko Drum Master 8840 / 161606
23. NDS Animal Crossing: Wild World 8790 / 4403783
24. NDS New Super Mario Bros. 8756 / 4845575
25. WII Mario Strikers: Charged 8149 / 71343
26. PS2 Arabians Lost: The Engagement on the Desert 8002 / NEW
27. NDS Namco Museum DS 7350 / NEW
28. 360 Project Gotham Racing 4 7002 / NEW
29. NDS Brain Training 2 6791 / 4700261
30. PSP Monster Hunter Portable 2 6282 / 1332378

 

[charlequin]

Also I don't see why it should be mandatory for Nintendo to promote a Capcom game.

Their competitors do it, and the result is better selling third-party titles -- which means a better library, which means better value of their system for those who purchase it. If Nintendo is content to let their price and one AAA title a year drive the system, and allow third-party efforts to crash and burn ("Not my problem"?) then the Wii isn't going to live up to its potential or see a suitable library form.

The lack of demos is due to the system's limitations.

Limitations that were not forced on Nintendo by any means. But that's a secondary point, really. If they can't download demos to the core Wii, they could be putting out the external HDD everyone wants them to put out, and downloading them there. Or putting demo discs of upcoming titles front and center at EB checkouts. Or switching Nintendo Power's format and including demo discs with your subscription.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

More like Opoona gets reinforcements. When people buy Galaxy, they will see Opoona as the new release next to it. 2 games for waiting a long time in line..seems great.

It's our problem-free philosophy
Opoona Matata!

 

[Chumly]

Opoona is gonna have a sub 10k first day and a sub 20k first week. Anything other than that would surprise me.

 

[ethelred]

Opoona is gonna have a sub 10k first day and a sub 20k first week. Anything other than that would surprise me.

Why so optimistic?

 

[Eteric Rice]

Meh, it seems like nothing is selling right now unless it's got a big name attached to it.

 

[ethelred]

Also, I can't wait to be vindicated on Opoona (here and here).

 

[Chumly]

Also, I can't wait to be vindicated on Opoona (here and here).

only a matter of days until you do (EDIT or like two weeks). Opoona is gonna bomb hard.

 

[Rock_Man]

Famitsu Oct 8-14
16. NDS Mario Kart DS 11469 / 2479205
29. NDS Brain Training 2 6791 / 4700261

If someone asked me a year ago, I would have predicted the opposite.

 

[ksamedi]

I don't buy this storage limitation thing. A lot of people here on GAF claim that demo's are not possible on Wii because of this while games like FF : CC get released for WiiWare and are probably around 20 MB. People seem to forget that Zelda OOT was 32 MB big and that was one huge game. Texture resolutions have improved and level detail has increased but that doesn't mean that 1 level for a Wii game is bigger than 512 MB. The Wii RAM is only like 60 MB or something, anything that can fit into the RAM can be a demo like a Smash stage or a Metroid segment. You would need 100MB max for a Wii demo, I think Nintendo is being foolish by not getting this demo thing online.


Edit: BTW, Nintendo does support third party software if it thinks it has potential or is fun to play, they published Trauma Center, that Techmo golf game and are publishing Z&W in Europe, they also handled all the marketing.

 

[llTll]

nice PS3 sales . any reason why its going up?

 

[Lobster]

nice PS3 sales . any reason why its going up?

Price drop.

 

[llTll]

Price drop.

PS3 got a price drop in japan?

i thought only a new model coming in Nov and thats about it

 

[Koren]

PS3 got a price drop in japan?

i thought only a new model coming in Nov and thats about it

5000 Yens on both 20GB and 60GB models...

40GB will be another 3000 Yens cheaper than 20GB, but without BC. I hope for Sony that white color is effective...

 

[cvxfreak]

I pre-ordered the white PS3 because the price is relatively low. Plus, I could use a second BD player when I get back to the States.

 

[Lobster]

Yeah, that's usually how it works when a niche game no one really cares about comes out the same day as a giant blockbuster.

It happened when Mario Party 8 came out.

 

[legend166]

Poor Zack and Wiki. It was doomed from the start. It only had one aspect of my patented tripod of succes:

1. High quality

2. Established brand name

3. Good marketing

It's pretty clear that in general, a game needs two of those three to succeed. Z&W only has the first.

I definately agree that Nintendo should have helped them to market the title. It pisses me off they aren't doing more in this area.

 

[ksamedi]

Poor Zack and Wiki. It was doomed from the start. It only had one aspect of my patented tripod of succes:

1. High quality

2. Established brand name

3. Good marketing

It's pretty clear that in general, a game needs two of those three to succeed. Z&W only has the first.

I definately agree that Nintendo should have helped them to market the title. It pisses me off they aren't doing more in this area.

Its only usefull to market a game when there is big hype for the game in the first place. Marketing could potentially double a games sales, but if your game is only selling something like 20k initially it really doesn't make sense to market the game as the marketing budget will probably be more than what the game brings in.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I pre-ordered the white PS3 because the price is relatively low. Plus, I could use a second BD player when I get back to the States.

Have you seen GAMEWatch pics? I found it pretty disappointing

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20071026/newps3.htm

 

[legend166]

Its only usefull to market a game when there is big hype for the game in the first place. Marketing could potentially double a games sales, but if your game is only selling something like 20k initially it really doesn't make sense to market the game as the marketing budget will probably be more than what the game brings in.

What? That's stupid thinking. Marketing can do much more than double a games sales. Plus, how else could you build hype in the first place?

 

[Parl]

Poor Zack and Wiki. It was doomed from the start. It only had one aspect of my patented tripod of succes:

1. High quality

2. Established brand name

3. Good marketing

It's pretty clear that in general, a game needs two of those three to succeed. Z&W only has the first.

I definately agree that Nintendo should have helped them to market the title. It pisses me off they aren't doing more in this area.

That's a copyright infringement of one of third parties' patented tripod for failure.

1) High quality
2) None established brand name
3) No marketing


The other tripod for failure that they're fond of is...

1) Low quality
2) Established franchise
3) Fairly okay marketing

Its only usefull to market a game when there is big hype for the game in the first place. Marketing could potentially double a games sales, but if your game is only selling something like 20k initially it really doesn't make sense to market the game as the marketing budget will probably be more than what the game brings in.

Brain Training.

 

[Fredescu]

Its only usefull to market a game when there is big hype for the game in the first place. Marketing could potentially double a games sales, but if your game is only selling something like 20k initially it really doesn't make sense to market the game as the marketing budget will probably be more than what the game brings in.

Spin. If retailers are not buying your 9/10 rated game you have fucked up.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Its only usefull to market a game when there is big hype for the game in the first place. Marketing could potentially double a games sales, but if your game is only selling something like 20k initially it really doesn't make sense to market the game as the marketing budget will probably be more than what the game brings in.

This isn't really true if the marketing is done properly.

No, it's not acceptable to send out a product with very little marketing and then suddenly expect a marketing blitz to fix it. If awareness for a product is not built slowly and surely, it's highly unlikely that a last minute push will sway many people. An example of this catastrophically failing is the movie "The Last Mimzy", which suffered from zero name recognition in the weeks leading up into the movie and had a multi-million dollar last minute ad blitz that did nothing but increase their loss.

But marketing doesn't just mean last minute TV ads. It means encouraging retailer pre-orders through retailers meetings, demos and multimedia previews, moneyhats, preview coverage in major magazines, developer interviews and blogs, and well suited publication ads.

Zack and Wiki should have had two sets of advertising in print/stores/tv. One that emphasizes the similarity to old adventure games. A great way to do this would be to show clips or still pictures from iconic early adventure games (making the audience feel "I remember those! They were awesome!") and then ending with a clip of the game and a tagline that shows that Z&W is a more modern, immersive version. The other set of ads would emphasize the family-friendly colours and characters.

Given that a number of retailers didn't order the game, direct-to-retailer marketing would have probably been a good move here. It's important that retailers know that your product is good, and has the potential for both immediate and long term sales. In the US supposedly Wal-Mart is getting the bulk of the Z&W order, which says to me that Capcom thinks this is a family game. In Japan it might have been a better move to try to shift the bulk of the order to niche shops, since I think the game is probably stronger on the puzzle-game hardcore merits.

 

[Flesh Into Gear]

Have you seen GAMEWatch pics? I found it pretty disappointing

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20071026/newps3.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20071026/newps301.jpg[/IM
[IMG]http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20071026/newps311.jpg[/IM[/QUOTE]

ehh a little less appealing than the one I saw in a random kotaku article from several months ago. I still think it's dead sexy though. Definitely prefer it over the black version.

 

[ksamedi]

What? That's stupid thinking. Marketing can do much more than double a games sales. Plus, how else could you build hype in the first place?

No it isn't. Your Tripod of succes doens't apply to every game, its very game specific. For a game to have a huge marketing budget it should be easy to market and should actually be anticipated by people. WiiFit is already known by many people because its an easy concept and is also a popular concept, Zack and Wiki had enough media exposure and was playeble everywhere yet no one knows of the title still because its not something that is easy to understand or a popular concept. Marketing for the game won't do anything, a demo could maybe but not marketing.

 

[ksamedi]

This isn't really true if the marketing is done properly.

No, it's not acceptable to send out a product with very little marketing and then suddenly expect a marketing blitz to fix it. If awareness for a product is not built slowly and surely, it's highly unlikely that a last minute push will sway many people. An example of this catastrophically failing is the movie "The Last Mimzy", which suffered from zero name recognition in the weeks leading up into the movie and had a multi-million dollar last minute ad blitz that did nothing but increase their loss.

But marketing doesn't just mean last minute TV ads. It means encouraging retailer pre-orders through retailers meetings, demos and multimedia previews, moneyhats, preview coverage in major magazines, developer interviews and blogs, and well suited publication ads.

Zack and Wiki should have had two sets of advertising in print/stores/tv. One that emphasizes the similarity to old adventure games. A great way to do this would be to show clips or still pictures from iconic early adventure games (making the audience feel "I remember those! They were awesome!") and then ending with a clip of the game and a tagline that shows that Z&W is a more modern, immersive version. The other set of ads would emphasize the family-friendly colours and characters.

Given that a number of retailers didn't order the game, direct-to-retailer marketing would have probably been a good move here. It's important that retailers know that your product is good, and has the potential for both immediate and long term sales. In the US supposedly Wal-Mart is getting the bulk of the Z&W order, which says to me that Capcom thinks this is a family game. In Japan it might have been a better move to try to shift the bulk of the order to niche shops, since I think the game is probably stronger on the puzzle-game hardcore merits.

Thats what I was trying to say, Zack and Wicki had all of the media exposure and even had a big gaming site backing it. It just didn't create any anticipation and marketing was not going to save the game. What this game needs is a demo or we should just wait and see if it spreads by word of mouth like the DS braintraining titles did.

 

[test_account]

I can't think of any (original) Capcom brawlers that didn't get some form of sequel either, except Captain Commando and later Battle Circuit... and I've heard cases made for BC actually being CC's spiritual sequel. :/

One thing i forgot to add to my previous post. I dont know if these are original Capcom IP tho. Cadillacs & Dinosaurs is also a TV show so i doubt that one is, but i think the 2 others are. But i must say i'm suprised over how many original Capcom IPs that got a sequel. I never really thought about that

 

[Phife Dawg]

Sony has certainly helped out plenty of companies over the years. So has Microsoft. It is not mandatory for Nintendo to do so, but if they expect to build the sort of relationship with third parties that the other two companies have, it's certainly a requisite step. And if they want to see third party games start performing better on their system (which should certainly be the goal for any first party hardware manufacturer), in order to ensure third parties continue to stick it out with quality, innovative products, then yes, perhaps stepping off the pedestal for a bit might help.

Limitations that need to be addressed through concrete steps instead of glib remarks about refrigerators.

Well you got to ask yourself wether Sony would have helped in this particular case though. Sure Z&W is one of my most anticipated Wii titles but even those of us that really looked forward to the game knew it'd bomb hard. It's not neccessarily the lack of promotion, the genre was never established on home consoles, it has a shitty name and the whole presentation makes it look like a product for kids.

These limitations won't go away. The best I see Nintendo doing would be sprucing up the flash memory to 1G or something. Wii demo channel isn't going to happen. I'd wish for Nintendo to proove me wrong but I doubt it.

Their competitors do it, and the result is better selling third-party titles -- which means a better library, which means better value of their system for those who purchase it. If Nintendo is content to let their price and one AAA title a year drive the system, and allow third-party efforts to crash and burn ("Not my problem"?) then the Wii isn't going to live up to its potential or see a suitable library form.

Limitations that were not forced on Nintendo by any means. But that's a secondary point, really. If they can't download demos to the core Wii, they could be putting out the external HDD everyone wants them to put out, and downloading them there. Or putting demo discs of upcoming titles front and center at EB checkouts. Or switching Nintendo Power's format and including demo discs with your subscription.

Like I said, would you honestly believe Sony or MS would have pushed Z&W if it was on their respective system? I doubt it. Where was Sony when pretty much every third party effort bombed on PSP? Or when some of the new IPs on PS2 by Capcom tanked? Should they have done more? This is a business after all. "But think of the third parties" They will go where the money is, and if there is no money to be had on Wii then we won't be seeing too many serious third party efforts on the system. Nintendo won't (and probably can't) fund ads for all third party games that show some effort.

I think it's sad that new IPs and new ideas mostly get ignored by the market but that's the way it works. Not only on Nintendo plattforms I might add, we've seen so many great games bomb it's not a new thing.

Have you seen GAMEWatch pics? I found it pretty disappointing

Plastic looks kinda cheap but it could be the lightning.

 

[gcubed]

Have you seen GAMEWatch pics? I found it pretty disappointing

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game...QUOTE] it looks smaller, or is it just me?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

The fundamental problem for gamers regarding Nintendo here there and everywhere seems to be as it's been for a while: From a profit standpoint, Nintendo doesn't really need to.

Why don't they offer more support for their third party partners? From a profit standpoint, Nintendo doesn't really need to.

Why don't they offer a better storage method for the Wii? From a profit standpoint, Nintendo doesn't really need to.

You can ask a "Why don't they _______ " question of any sort, and unfortunately, the answer is always going to be the same. They are an old, stubborn, immensely profitable company, and even with fresh blood running the company, we seem to be hitting the same tired old wall of "Nintendo doesn't need to".

From the gamers' standpoint, this is fucking irritating as all hell.

 

[RurouniZel]

it looks smaller, or is it just me?

Its missing 2 usb ports (we knew that already) but its also missing the small holes next to them to let the heat escape.

That aspect is more worrysome to me than the missing USB ports or lack of BC...

 

[ethelred]

No it isn't. Your Tripod of succes doens't apply to every game, its very game specific. For a game to have a huge marketing budget it should be easy to market and should actually be anticipated by people. WiiFit is already known by many people because its an easy concept and is also a popular concept, Zack and Wiki had enough media exposure and was playeble everywhere yet no one knows of the title still because its not something that is easy to understand or a popular concept. Marketing for the game won't do anything, a demo could maybe but not marketing.

Thats what I was trying to say, Zack and Wicki had all of the media exposure and even had a big gaming site backing it. It just didn't create any anticipation and marketing was not going to save the game. What this game needs is a demo or we should just wait and see if it spreads by word of mouth like the DS braintraining titles did.

I've come to the conclusion that you have zero comprehension of anything sales or marketing related.

Well you got to ask yourself wether Sony would have helped in this particular case though.

In this particular case? It's hard to get the situation to be exactly analogous. It's one of the -- if not the -- first quality third party titles on the system. It's gotten positive reviews, and most people that have played it have loved it. I'm not sure Sony was in a position where they really had only a single quality third party game to trumpet, but I think if they had been, that horn would've been blaring our ears off.

But really, it's the fact that this game is such a marked difference in quality from the bulk of the shovelware that has infested this system from the moment it launched (and the fact that it was coming from a very key third party partner, in one of the only companies to announce several high profile, high quality original products) that should've been Nintendo's indication that it was a game worth supporting in order to ensure their partner's sucess and help Wii publishing remain viable in the future.

So you get it out there, you get people playing it, you help build awareness of it, because you've got a really high quality title on your hands. Not only that, but it's the sort of thing that genuinely can't be done on another machine and really helps prove the viability of the control scheme. That's definitely worth promoting.

It's not neccessarily the lack of promotion, the genre was never established on home consoles, it has a shitty name and the whole presentation makes it look like a product for kids.

Excuses, excuses. You think Treasure Island Z is a shitty name? I think Wii is even worse -- but somehow Nintendo managed to market the crap out of that, didn't they? The genre was never established on consoles? I'm not sure I buy that (adventure games have been popular on many consoles, handhelds, and PCs), but even if it's true, that just gives another demographic for Nintendo to supposedly reach out to and get to embrace their new console vision. Considering that point & click adventures were at one time shockingly popular and are one of the genres most heralded as potentially perfect for the controller, it's certainly incumbent upon Nintendo to help the genre succeed on their machine when it debuts with such a high quality outing.

These limitations won't go away.

And Nintendo deserves to be crucified for that.

 

[mepaco]

Its missing 2 usb ports (we knew that already) but its also missing the small holes next to them to let the heat escape.

That aspect is more worrysome to me than the missing USB ports or lack of BC...

I might be a little out of the loop but I think the consensus was that the new 40GB model is benefiting from a process shrink to 65nm, which should decrease the heat output by a good amount.

 

[RurouniZel]

But really, it's the fact that this game is such a marked difference in quality from the bulk of the shovelware that has infested this system from the moment it launched (and the fact that it was coming from a very key third party partner, in one of the only companies to announce several high profile, high quality original products) that should've been Nintendo's indication that it was a game worth supporting in order to ensure their partner's sucess and help Wii publishing remain viable in the future.

I agree with this statement. The Wii has proven to be an incredible success for Nintendo. The only flaw with this is that it has been a success only for Nintendo (generally speaking that is). If Nintendo wants better 3rd part support, they should help the better 3rd party games sell more to increase developer confidence that their software will sell on the machine.

 

[ksamedi]

I've come to the conclusion that you have zero comprehension of anything sales or marketing related.



In this particular case? It's hard to get the situation to be exactly analogous. It's one of the -- if not the -- first quality third party titles on the system. It's gotten positive reviews, and most people that have played it have loved it. I'm not sure Sony was in a position where they really had only a single quality third party game to trumpet, but I think if they had been, that horn would've been blaring our ears off.

But really, it's the fact that this game is such a marked difference in quality from the bulk of the shovelware that has infested this system from the moment it launched (and the fact that it was coming from a very key third party partner, in one of the only companies to announce several high profile, high quality original products) that should've been Nintendo's indication that it was a game worth supporting in order to ensure their partner's sucess and help Wii publishing remain viable in the future.

So you get it out there, you get people playing it, you help build awareness of it, because you've got a really high quality title on your hands. Not only that, but it's the sort of thing that genuinely can't be done on another machine and really helps prove the viability of the control scheme. That's definitely worth promoting.



Excuses, excuses. You think Treasure Island Z is a shitty name? I think Wii is even worse -- but somehow Nintendo managed to market the crap out of that, didn't they? The genre was never established on consoles? I'm not sure I buy that (adventure games have been popular on many consoles, handhelds, and PCs), but even if it's true, that just gives another demographic for Nintendo to supposedly reach out to and get to embrace their new console vision. Considering that point & click adventures were at one time shockingly popular and are one of the genres most heralded as potentially perfect for the controller, it's certainly incumbent upon Nintendo to help the genre succeed on their machine when it debuts with such a high quality outing.



And Nintendo deserves to be crucified for that.

You say I lack marketing comprehension while you don't even make sense, the game is marketed, and is published here in Europe by Nintendo, like Nintendo did with the Altus game and Techmo game. Its pretty stupid to say that marketing will save Z&W, as if huge companies are stupid and can't make the same conclusion if the world were so rose colored as you see it. Really al you say is that those companies are stupid while in fact they have way more smart people than you on board.

 

[Jokeropia]

It's one of the -- if not the -- first quality third party titles on the system.

That's an exaggeration, but the fact is that NOE are publishing this and they've published games like Trauma Center as well.

Where was Sony when pretty much every third party effort bombed on PSP? Or when some of the new IPs on PS2 by Capcom tanked?

I'd like to see someone respond to this too.

 

[Pureauthor]

You say I lack marketing comprehension while you don't even make sense, the game is marketed, and is published here in Europe by Nintendo, like Nintendo did with the Altus game and Techmo game. Its pretty stupid to say that marketing will save Z&W, as if huge companies are stupid and can't make the same conclusion if the world were so rose colored as you see it. Really al you say is that those companies are stupid while in fact they have way more smart people than you on board.

Do we know ZnW's Europe sales numbers? (Is it even out there yet?)

Marketing absolutely does give games boosts. Now, I don't know what you mean exactly by 'save', but I guarantee you that had ZnW been marketed properly, it would have seen significantly higher sales than it is seeing now.

That's an exaggeration, but the fact is that NOE are publishing this and they've published games like Trauma Center as well.

Good. Like I said, once we see ZnW doing well in Europe, we can rejoice. Meanwhile, NoJ has dropped the ball on this.

I'd like to see someone respond to this too.

Like ethelred said - Sony was swimming is worthwhile 3rd party efforts in those two cases. If they'd tried to market each and every last good game that came out their marketing budget would have blown up in their faces.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

So ksamedi, off-hand, how do you think Katamari Damacy on the PS2 achieved the wild success that it did?

And Jokeropia, the true answer to the question is a deflection. Sony wasn't there at those times because Sony isn't the one with a third-party problem. I think I have lamented the way Sony has handled the PSP often enough, however.

 

[Pureauthor]

So ksamedi, off-hand, how do you think Katamari Damacy on the PS2 achieved the wild success that it did?

I believe the bright colourfulness has a magnetic effect that caused invisible martians to get stuck to the game. Their only recourse was to walk out of the stores with the games attached to their backs, and this was all counted as sales.

 

[ethelred]

You say I lack marketing comprehension while you don't even make sense, the game is marketed, and is published here in Europe by Nintendo

That's an exaggeration, but the fact is that NOE are publishing this and they've published games like Trauma Center as well.

 

[Pureauthor]

Well, a large part of that is the ocean. You're saying there's a potential market for ZnW among the mermaids of the world?

(And merman, I guess. Can't be chauvinistic and all.)

 

[ksamedi]

Do we know ZnW's Europe sales numbers? (Is it even out there yet?)

Marketing absolutely does give games boosts. Now, I don't know what you mean exactly by 'save', but I guarantee you that had ZnW been marketed properly, it would have seen significantly higher sales than it is seeing now.



Good. Like I said, once we see ZnW doing well in Europe, we can rejoice. Meanwhile, NoJ has dropped the ball on this.



Like ethelred said - Sony was swimming is worthwhile 3rd party efforts in those two cases. If they'd tried to market each and every last good game that came out their marketing budget would have blown up in their faces.

The question is how much higher, and will it lead to more profit or less profit. Thats what companies ask themselves if they market a game. I guess Capcom could not see the benefit of marketing Z&W on TV or ads because 1) Its either Too hard a concept to explain to people or 2) Its a niche genre and Capcom just tested the waters or 3)They want to spend there marketing money on other games where they will get more return.

So ksamedi, off-hand, how do you think Katamari Damacy on the PS2 achieved the wild success that it did?

I'm not sure because I never followed the game or don't know its sales numbers. But when a game is succesfull, its a combination of many things, not only the marketing. Some games are on the edge of crap but are easy to market and some games are awesome but are a tougher sell. Its just the way it is.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

So a game about playing as a little weird-looking prince of the universe rolling a ball of junk to make it larger and larger to replace stars destroyed by his equally weird-looking and slightly homo-erotic father using a spartan art style and tank controls would be... easier or harder to market?

 

[NeonZ]

0_o?

I'm not sure Sony was in a position where they really had only a single quality third party game to trumpet, but I think if they had been, that horn would've been blaring our ears off.

It might be a quality title, but it's an extremely niche title. Even in a place like GAF, where it's quality is known and not much debated, it still seems to have little interest from the general forum goer, considering the small official tread. Could Nintendo have helped with its marketing? Yes. Would it have sold more? Yes, but it'd never become a real hit or anything big for the system.

You don't see Sony or Microsoft trumpeting niche 3rd party titles with limited appeal in any group, both casual and hardcore.

And Nintendo deserves to be crucified for that.

Yet, they haven't been crucified. That just shows the lack of appeal of this title to anyone who isn't some Adventure game "fan".

 

[neojubei]

Have you seen GAMEWatch pics? I found it pretty disappointing

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20071026/newps3.htm

Time to buy a second ps3.