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Media Create Sales 10/22 - 10/28 2007
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
These mario sales proves one thing.
All the hardcore gamers are on the handheld consoles. Simply put, the Wii is attracting and different audience, and the audience that bought PS2's are moving to the DS console.
All the hardcore gamers are on the handheld consoles. Simply put, the Wii is attracting and different audience, and the audience that bought PS2's are moving to the DS console.
Pureauthor
Member
cw_sasuke said:
Link usually beats Mario on the GameFAQS character poll.
Just sayin'.
The L-Block is really tearing up the charts this year.
Eteric Rice
Member
Hcoregamer00 said:
Doesn't prove that "yet."
Would be hella funny to see Final Fantasy XIV on the DS, though. :lol
what amazes me the most is the huge difference in sales of handheld software vs. Home console software.
The DS and PSP are capable of producing games that get near the million units sold and they do it actually quite often. There are lots of games on the 900k-800k range for the
handhelds.
Now, on the home console front, outside of Wii sports and play, which ultimately seemed to be a fad that ended some months ago, NOTHING has a chance of becoming a million seller or even getting near that. I see this not as a problem for nintendo but a HUGE problem for the industry. I have never seen so much apathy from Japan towards home console gaming, it's really disturbing.
Today is SMG but next year is MGS4 and so on....
the signs are clear: Japan isn't happy at all with this console generation of gaming.
The DS and PSP are capable of producing games that get near the million units sold and they do it actually quite often. There are lots of games on the 900k-800k range for the
handhelds.
Now, on the home console front, outside of Wii sports and play, which ultimately seemed to be a fad that ended some months ago, NOTHING has a chance of becoming a million seller or even getting near that. I see this not as a problem for nintendo but a HUGE problem for the industry. I have never seen so much apathy from Japan towards home console gaming, it's really disturbing.
Today is SMG but next year is MGS4 and so on....
the signs are clear: Japan isn't happy at all with this console generation of gaming.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
?Grecco said:
How isn't he?
The only Nintendo franchise larger is Pokémon.
Eteric Rice
Member
sphinx said:
I wouldn't go quite that far yet. None of the systems really have any games with actual "pull" yet.
But, lets say it's true. We may be getting to the time when handhelds and consoles cross. An "ascention" if you will. It's possible that instead of a new console every generation, we'll get handhelds capable of outputting on a television.
Handhelds would become the new console. Or, they'd be one in the same. In 5 years it's not that far fetched that handhelds could output in HD.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
cw_sasuke said:
What are you talking about, the PSP has many games that sold well.
They just tend to be RPG's made by Namco, SquareEnix, or Capcom.
Dam this thread is a goldmine. Just wait till we get first week numbers from Famitsu.
Anyways SMG first day numbers are definitely very disappointing but im hoping for a decent first week still. If its less than 300k I think everyone is going to be majorly disappointed but I think it will hit that at least. I guess best case senario as of now is for it to get about 400k for the week which would be pretty good considering and then were gonna have to go from there to see what kind of legs it has. Hopefully it can have a nice christmas push also.
Anyways SMG first day numbers are definitely very disappointing but im hoping for a decent first week still. If its less than 300k I think everyone is going to be majorly disappointed but I think it will hit that at least. I guess best case senario as of now is for it to get about 400k for the week which would be pretty good considering and then were gonna have to go from there to see what kind of legs it has. Hopefully it can have a nice christmas push also.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Dude, you are typing on a computer. Just 1's and 0's. Nothing in between. Great or bomb. You pick. Hell, I'm not even a person. Just a recreation of GAF from the year 2007. I don't know what year it is but I estimate it as somewhere near the year 2027. Everything you see before you is just a binary recreation of a better time.DeaconKnowledge said:
Follow the white rabbit.
Then take the red pill. I'm gonna take the blue and go back to sleep.
*blank screen*
Pureauthor
Member
Hcoregamer00 said:
Plenty of PSP games have done well, but for some reason the other guy established a cutoff of 1 million units. Which, well, a lot of PSP games haven't reached in Japan. I only know of MHP2.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Pureauthor said:
If you put the cutoff at 400k (which is far more reasonable), the handhelds smash console gaming to the afterlife.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Pureauthor said:
MHP made it as well, but that's it.
Rancid Mildew
Banned
If this game hits a million, which it probably will some time in December or January, that's an improvement of 200,000 over its predecessor units in Japan. How is that disappointing? Unless you're measuring sales against GAF's hype levels, it's hard for me to see a justified point of view that hands Galaxy a F. And this is ignoring the fact that the west will probably demonstrate even more dramatic improvements.
The problem with stuff like Dewey selling 2-3k and Opoona selling probably 5k, is that these games would likely sell better if they were on the X360 in Japan.
Think about that. Sell better on the X360 in Japan. That's not good territory. Would likely sell better on PS3 as well but there's not enough software to guess from. I mean when a sound text novel like Imabikisou does 20k, that's still more than 2-5k. But then again PS3/X360 development costs more and a 20k games sold increase in profits likely won't make up for the cost difference. OTOH, with X360 you have the western market profits as well. PS3 not so much so far.
So then your console options as a non-SE 3rd party are to stick to PS2 or do the Disgaea 3 route (if it sells well in the 100k range): spend PS2-level budgets to make PS3 games.
Think about that. Sell better on the X360 in Japan. That's not good territory. Would likely sell better on PS3 as well but there's not enough software to guess from. I mean when a sound text novel like Imabikisou does 20k, that's still more than 2-5k. But then again PS3/X360 development costs more and a 20k games sold increase in profits likely won't make up for the cost difference. OTOH, with X360 you have the western market profits as well. PS3 not so much so far.
So then your console options as a non-SE 3rd party are to stick to PS2 or do the Disgaea 3 route (if it sells well in the 100k range): spend PS2-level budgets to make PS3 games.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Rancid Mildew said:
hahaha. Using the GameCube as a measure of success is a bit fucked.
Rancid Mildew
Banned
Stumpokapow said:
Indeed. But what else should I compare it to?
Eteric Rice
Member
Bebpo said:
Hopefully Nintendo is serious about their focus on the hardcore now that they have the casual base.
Dunno if those games would sell better on the 360, though. And even if they did do a bit better, they would have costed more to make.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
JoshuaJSlone said:
That's also true. It hink we have a little bit overreacted. Let's wait to the numbers of the entire week and then we'll say something about.
PkunkFury
Member
Bebpo said:
:lol
what on Earth are you basing this on? Who would buy Dewey on the PS3 or 360? Since it's so kiddy, I'm sure it would've somehow sold even less. If software sales are bad on the Wii, they are infinitely worse on the other two.
Of course a sound text novel did well, just look at the software charts! Those types of games are climbing up on every system. Heck, Brain Training is one of the PSP's strongest sellers as well. Don't forget that EoJ just bombed as well, and I'm sure we'll see pleanty more new IPs sink this gen. This isn't a system by system thing... this is a cultural shift (if anything).
All I really see is a lot of "sky is falling" based on one day's reports. I'm sure Galaxy will clear Sunshine at the end of the day. The most you can take out of this is that perhaps Nintendo's new audience truly isn't interested in "real" games. But the fans will still pick this stuff up, we know Mario will outsell Zelda and SPM, the sales will show up through the holidays. Plus this game will be huge in the West, were real games still sell. I don't think this is the end of gaming as we know it, but it could be telling about the direction Japanese companies will take. Seems Capcom's Western style titles were a good idea...
PkunkFury said:
EoJ where you need a freaking card table and camera setup isn't really comparable to a game you just pop in. Especially an RPG by a medium-sized game publisher.
X360 games that are by medium-size publishers like Koei or Konami do like 20k+, PS3, I dunno, not enough games to tell.
I think Opoona's death following Dewey, following Zack & Wiki is far more of an issue than Mario's good, but not amazing, sales.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
This is true. The two Monster Hunters are the only things to pass 800K on PSP, with Crisis Core having a possibility of getting there. There are a few more around 400K, and the rest is at 300K or below. Wii actually has more games over 800K than PSP now; or the same number if we don't count Wii Play.cw_sasuke said:
DS has more than 20 games over 800K, though.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
Bebpo said:
Yeah, this is not entirely wrong. I have the same impression. Zack and Wiki, Opoona, Dewy, Mario Strikers are all games that came out after the big drop of Wii's sales.
What I just cannot explain is why the hell Wii's sales dropped so fast and without a solid motivation. And I cannot explain too why Super Mario Galaxy hasn't sold much more then this.
I have a big impression that the possibility that Wii is a fad (ATTENTION: in the sense that it is a short-lived console) is not so ridicolous now.
If Mario Galaxy cannot skyrocked it is not the end of the world, because Nintendo is plenty of money now, but it would be a BIG signal that something is going wrong.
Nintendo has opened the mass market with the DS, but I have the impression that they alienated the hardcore fanbase with the Wii.
Where are all Mario fanboys ? And maybe it is really only a problem of marketing and next week the numbers will be far better...
Mithos Yggdrasill said:
It really is odd.
Wii hardware and to a large extent software were chugging along just fine and then out of nowhere its like all the oxygen has been sucked out of the room.
Wii software has to sell well this holiday or the "Wii is a fad" people might be on to something.
ksamedi said:
Awesome. So if a publisher wants to make a quirky rpg, a point n' click adventure game, and puzzle/platformer...what are they supposed to do besides making DS games for all their products?
These types of games existed last-gen on PS2 and the gen before on PS1 and did fine.
It used to be "well 3rd parties aren't putting effort into their games, which is why they bomb on Wii. When they actually try they'll be rewarded with sales". Now it's "They are giving the effort but they don't know what people want to buy" @_@
Ynos Yrros
Banned
Cry me an ocean. FFT which is a remake of a PSX game had better first day sales than the biggest Wii game.farnham said:
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
zeroshiki said:
This is already something new for me.
kisakiproject
Member
king zell said:
weak on both parts
I predict SMG will be 260k as nintendo games tend to double first day sales first week. AC6 I'd say 40-50k which is weak also I was expecting atleast 50k first day.
It takes more than one game to keep your system afloat. Nintendo dropped the ball after WiiSports and WiiPlay started to slow down. They should've had something like Galaxy in september or august. You can't expect people to wait, they'll move on and buy something else.Mithos Yggdrasill said:
The same thing happened in Europe, but Mario Strikers Charged and Big Brain Academy got people interested again. The good games are rolling out all at once here. Compare that situation to Japan. They don't give a shit about Metroid or Strikers, and the only game remotely interesting to them launched weeks or even months ago. Last month's sales made it painfully clear that Nintendo has nothing besides WiiSports to appeal to the Japanese consumers. There aren't any shortages either. Nintendo needs to show that the Wii is a system that will rule the market in Japan for the next 4 or 5 years. They need some big RPG IP's on their console, in fact they needed those at launch. You can't expect Super Mario Galaxy to sell to a "hardcore" crowd when there isn't one.
Galaxy sales will pick up during the holidays. You can't make any conclusions from first day sales.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Just to throw it out there, if SMG sold 130K the first day and then stopped forever, that number would be enough to place it...
#92 on DS's top games list
#24 on PSP's
#12 on Wii's
#4 on PS3's
#2 on X360's
Koei Wii
Sengoku Musou Katana: 11,576
G-1 Jockey Wii: 8,719
Mahjong Taikai Wii: 7,685
Sangokushi XI with Power-Up Kit: 1,111
Koei X360
Shin Sangoku Musou 4 Special: 10,957
Warriors Orochi: 6,059
Samurai Warriors 2: 4,929
Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires: 3,408
Konami Wii
Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu Wii: 72,388
Elebits: 62,896
MLB Power Pros: 6,784
Konami X360
Rumble Roses XX: 29,187
Winning Eleven Pro Evolution Soccer 2007: 20,931
Call of Duty 2: 8,664
Pro Yakyuu Spirits 3: 5,681
#92 on DS's top games list
#24 on PSP's
#12 on Wii's
#4 on PS3's
#2 on X360's
Doing 20K on X360 puts a game I believe in the top third. Specifically comparing those two, who have lacked notable Wii success...Bebpo said:
Koei Wii
Sengoku Musou Katana: 11,576
G-1 Jockey Wii: 8,719
Mahjong Taikai Wii: 7,685
Sangokushi XI with Power-Up Kit: 1,111
Koei X360
Shin Sangoku Musou 4 Special: 10,957
Warriors Orochi: 6,059
Samurai Warriors 2: 4,929
Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires: 3,408
Konami Wii
Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu Wii: 72,388
Elebits: 62,896
MLB Power Pros: 6,784
Konami X360
Rumble Roses XX: 29,187
Winning Eleven Pro Evolution Soccer 2007: 20,931
Call of Duty 2: 8,664
Pro Yakyuu Spirits 3: 5,681
Did it? First week seems to have been in the 170K region, which would make the first day really really frontloaded.Ynos Yrros said:
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
farnham said:
That. is. exactly. the. point.
PS2 sold more then 20 millions systems in Japan and the number of million sellers is gigantic. Where is this mass of people ? Only the hardest of the hardcore is on PS3. X360 in Japan is irrelevant.
Until now I thought that at least a little part was on Wii and the rest still with PS2, but it appear clear that I'm wrong (about Wii).
Only one thing is sure: these guys have to go somewhere, sooner or later. So, I would exclude the X360 (sorry for the fans of the console, but it is very unlikely that it will become enough important in term of rude numbers).
Wii or PS3: that's the problem: now I begin to understand what analysts and developers said some time ago: there is the possibility that Wii is appealing almost only for the casual market and that PS2 (two !) owners are still waiting for PS3 (three) and in particular for games and a big price drop. While they're waiting, they're playing with PSP and DS.
If this possibility is right: two things will happen: a constant decline of Wii and DS and a resurgence of PS3. That's why games like Metal Gear Solid 4 or FF XIII are still on PS3. It is NOT due to the hopes about the future of PS3, but about the fact that the Wii, somehow, is still not convincing software-wise. And Super Mario Galaxy's performance support this theory quite well.
I'm convinced that this possibility is, for now, not the best option at all. But I would not exclude it entirely, at least until the Wii begin to increase its sales singificantly once again.
schuelma said:
Maybe it is not oxygen that came out, but nitrogen came in, if you understand what I mean.
Calm down guys.
It is clear that Wii doesn't appeal to the hardcore audiance for the moment. The software that will make them pull the money out of their pockets is the upcoming third-parties tiles like Chocobo, No More Heroes, Rygar and others. They will make easier to them to understand the superiority of the Wii on both the PS3 and X360 software-wise. Thus, there is a chance that these titles will help Super Mario to sell and not the contrary.
We have to admit it : Wii software and announcements are far to compete with the PS2 for the moment. If nothing changes, hardcore players will lose faith in Wii.
It is clear that Wii doesn't appeal to the hardcore audiance for the moment. The software that will make them pull the money out of their pockets is the upcoming third-parties tiles like Chocobo, No More Heroes, Rygar and others. They will make easier to them to understand the superiority of the Wii on both the PS3 and X360 software-wise. Thus, there is a chance that these titles will help Super Mario to sell and not the contrary.
We have to admit it : Wii software and announcements are far to compete with the PS2 for the moment. If nothing changes, hardcore players will lose faith in Wii.
except that opoona looked pretty interesting, had some experienced devs behind it, was decently reviewed, and is one of the first old-style jrpgs on a console that's actually selling in japan.ksamedi said:
at least part of the issue is that the only nintendo-driven play for the "hardcore" on wii has been laser-targeted at gamecube owners, who are hardly voracious consumers of rpgs. also, it's been a pretty good year for ps2 rpgs (well... in NA, anyway...) so the migration pattern of these people may be slowed somewhat.
my optimism for future interesting japanese console content is under siege by the evidence though...
charlequin
Banned
Alright class! It's been a busy week, so let's review what we've learned, shall we?
Me last week: Nintendo has not demonstrated the ability to successfully market software titles to the hardcore audience.
Me last week: While the DS has successfully synthesized the new non-games/casual crowd with the carried over hardcore crowd from GBA to produce a strong base for software sales, the Wii has only the inherited GCN base to mix in with all the casual gamers.
Me last week: Nintendo needs to change their strategy if they want Wii to be a great home for hardcore and casual gamers to join hands and sing kumbaya together.
....yeah, I guess I was totally fucking off my rocker. :lol
I do think some people here are underselling the likely performance of SMG a little here. I don't see any reason to believe it'll perform worse than Sunshine. I also don't see any reason to believe it'll put up less than 300k on week one -- this series is way over towards the other end from the otaku-popular RPGs that do all their business on day one, and I expect it to more than double its day-one sales by the end of week one. Nonetheless, this is pretty much the most prevalent example of what several of us have been saying for a while -- Nintendo hasn't done their homework to ensure that hardcore games can do well on their system.
Me last week: Nintendo has not demonstrated the ability to successfully market software titles to the hardcore audience.
Me last week: While the DS has successfully synthesized the new non-games/casual crowd with the carried over hardcore crowd from GBA to produce a strong base for software sales, the Wii has only the inherited GCN base to mix in with all the casual gamers.
Me last week: Nintendo needs to change their strategy if they want Wii to be a great home for hardcore and casual gamers to join hands and sing kumbaya together.
....yeah, I guess I was totally fucking off my rocker. :lol
I do think some people here are underselling the likely performance of SMG a little here. I don't see any reason to believe it'll perform worse than Sunshine. I also don't see any reason to believe it'll put up less than 300k on week one -- this series is way over towards the other end from the otaku-popular RPGs that do all their business on day one, and I expect it to more than double its day-one sales by the end of week one. Nonetheless, this is pretty much the most prevalent example of what several of us have been saying for a while -- Nintendo hasn't done their homework to ensure that hardcore games can do well on their system.