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Media Create Sales: 11/24 - 11/30
- Thread starter PantherLotus
- Start date
AnimeTheme
Member
donny2112 said:
We are talking about "third parties". Seriously, how many 3rd party games can sell over 1M these days? Not even NDS have that many (and the biggest 3rd party game in this gen so far, MHP2G, is on PSP). Some game types simply rarely or never sell over 100K, such as those Anime/otaku-oriented games, but that does NOT mean they are ignorable.
domokunrox
Banned
What an interesting week. I guess PES is pretty big in Japan. Didn't know that.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
AnimeTheme said:
right, but the wonderswan had 4 anime games that broke 100k so let's not pretend 100k on the psp is some sort of impressive achievement.
Spiegel said:
ignoring that that's a much broader cross-section of games than on the psp (you've included three full genres, two large companies, and a wildcard which allows you to ignore other games if you think you should)...
... and further ignoring your ridiculous crusade to ignore nintendo first-party software or spin it, when really there's no reason we should ignore nintendo software for nintendo consoles, since we don't ignore first-party software or break it out for other consoles...
... it's still not true! layton 1, layton 2, mega man star force, some kanji trainer, apollo justice, and taiko drum master all do not fit under those categories and still broke 400k.
400k is 50 games on the ds, and 5 games on the psp. this isn't just because of the DS's higher hardware sales, it's also because the DS has categorically broader and deeper software sales than the PSP (alternatively, the PSP has categorically narrower and shallower software sales than the DS).
AnimeTheme
Member
Stumpokapow said:
I am curious to know what that 4 "anime" games on wonderswan are.
The majority of Anime games these days are below 100k, no matter what platform they are on, even NDS. The point is, the majority of PSP Anime games wouldn't be anything better (if not actually worse) if they were on other platforms. More and more companies are releasing Anime games on PSP. The audience is there.
Stumpokapow said:
It seems like an impressive achievement when talking about the wii:
"Oh Rune Factory did 18k, that's not bad. Marvelous is a small company"
"Oh Sky Crawlers did 6k, that's not too bad considering the advertisement!"
"Shiren and Chocobo Dungeon are dungeon crawlers, doing >60k is good enough"
"One Piece Unlimited Cruise: Episode 1 selling 90k is a sign that anime games can sell on Wii!"
"Fatal Frame is niche and has done 60k Wooooo"
Yeah
Ehm. We are talking about the possibility of third parties going to PSP or Wii. Talking about nintendo games doesn't make sense here. But hey, it's my ridiculous crusade against nintendo
vanguardian1
poor, homeless and tasteless
Spiegel said:
Personally I'd consider Rune Factory a major disappointment (I want to see how it continues after this week before I consider it a bomb), Sky Crawlers a bomb, Shiren/CD are disappointing, One Piece is doing okay, and Fatal Frame is doing in-line with the rest of the series from what I've heard (not trying to put a good/bad spin on it for that reason).
Spiegel said:
PSP not being a console (and console referring to the ones that stay connected to the TV
) sort of knocks it out of contention as a viable console. Spiegel said:
No, that would be realized potential.
The Wii has sold a lot of "expanded audience" games and a lot of traditional games that happen to have been made by Nintendo. Therefore, the audience to buy those types of games (not RPGs, discussed that before) exists to some degree on the Wii, if they can be reached. Maybe they're all Nintendo-only gamers and don't consider third-party games. That seems pretty unlikely considering a lot of Nintendo franchises have gone up since the GameCube, but would be one reason why third-parties couldn't reach them. The potential should exist on the Wii, though.On the PSP, the currently shown audience buys more third-party games (has Sony given them better options there?), but outside of Monster Hunter, Monster Hunter-like games, and Crisis Core, they haven't been reaching any absolutely high sales. Relative to other PSP games, they're doing good, but that's why I said "absolutely" high sales.
If we're talking current status, PSP is selling more third-party (and I think even launch-aligned it might be a bit higher) than the Wii, and if companies can be satisfied with that or want to put out a blockbuster or want to put out a Monster Hunter-like game, great for them and PSP owners. If they want something more, they either have to go to the DS or the Wii, and if they are making a console game that needs significant Japan sales, the Wii is the obvious choice.
I've said before that this generation is a lot harder on third-parties. Last generation, they could put a game on the PS2 and be pretty assured that they're hitting a good portion of the game's target audience. The waters are much more choppy this generation and hard decisions about scale/budget of game (indicating handheld or console) and target audience have to be considered.
Spiegel said:
You're actually disparaging the DS's ability to sell games, now?
Speigel said:
I realize that Nintendo tries to make games that could be played by anyone, but I wouldn't lump Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl under the "expanded audience" games label.
Speigel said:
Which is fine.
Speigel said:
The DS is totally outpacing the PS2 in total software sales in Japan, but it is behind in third-party sales. No, I wouldn't expect companies to feel the need scale back their expectations for games on the DS compared to the PS2 when looking at the needed budget for each, though.
Again, as I've said before, comparing any current system to the PS2 for third-party sales is asking to make that system look bad.
Speigel said:
Yeah! We're to this part of the argument which I don't typically take part in. Now's the point someone comes in with the Wii equivalent and then we debate the subjective definition of quality. Woopee!
As I already said, if companies are fine with their games topping out between 200K and 300K, great for them and PSP gamers.
Spiegel said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
AnimeTheme said:
2x digimon
2x super robot taisen
Spiegel said:
ignoring the fact that you're unable to discuss anything sales related without segueing into nintendo trolling,
the two are not mutually exclusive points. it's possible that the psp's software sales are generally poor (which they are) while simultaneously calling specific b-tier and c-tier games sales better than you'd expect. if some whacky pervy porno game came out on psp and did 20k, those would probably be solid sales based on genre, budget, and advertising, while simultaneously doing nothing to suggest that the psp can sell stuff.
for what it's worth, though, sky crawlers bombed, one piece did okay but not well, shiren and chocobo both did okay in absolute terms although chocobo was a fall from grace versus the psx installments, rune factory is okay bordering on poor... and strawmanning donny or anyone in this thread into arguing those things is poor form. fatal frame did great because it's the best-selling installment of the franchise and they wouldn't keep greenlighting them if it wasn't profitable... and none of these titles individually have anything to do with whether or not the wii can move software
Stumpokapow said:
Again.
We are talking about the possibility of third parties going to PSP or Wii. Talking about nintendo games doesn't make sense here. But hey, it's my ridiculous crusade against nintendo.
Talking about the performance of third party games released on Wii makes sense. That's not trolling.
markatisu said:
Yeah, probably. And that's good
But games selling less than 100k doesn't mean anything because they haven't reached a significant audience /donny
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Spiegel said:
Except your bright-line distinction between third party and first party is ridiculous. If a third party game bombs on the Wii, it's not BECAUSE it's third party. It's because the game does not appeal to the audience, or it wasn't advertised, or the price was too high--the same reason any game bombs on any system.
When Nintendo releases games that don't appeal to the audience or they don't advertise them, the games bomb. When third parties release games that do appeal to the audience or they do advertise them, they don't bomb.
If you're a third party considering a game on the Wii, you wouldn't say "HURRR ONLY NINTENDO SELLS IM GOING 2 PSP!!!!!", you would say "Does the type, scope, and budget of my game match what sells on the Wii?" And yes, if you were going to make a Super Robot Taisen game, you would choose PSP over Wii (but maybe not DS--the evidence is mixed there). It has nothing to do with Nintendo, though.
Nintendo isn't successful because they're Nintendo. Square Enix isn't successful because they're Square Enix.
Virtually every post you make in a sales age thread consists of "HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW ONLY NINTENDO SELLS ON NINTENDO SYSTEMS". Your last hysterical distinction between Nintendo-published games and Nintendo-developed games was just another in a long line of this sort of thing coming from you.
Spiegel said:
But... there's no one out there who says "Wii software reaches a significant and broad audience! Look at Fatal Frame IV! It sold marginally more units than it did on PS2!!!" so your pretty pitiful strawman of donny really doesn't make any point.
AnimeTheme
Member
Stumpokapow said:
I suppose you realize how big those names were at that time (and even now, especially SRW).
Stumpokapow said:
Of course, and when people says: Only Monster Hunter-like games and Crisis Core sells on PSP!! Wii has more potential!! it's all good.
I have said examples about why I think that the psp has NOW more potential for third parties than the Wii: More third party psp games are being succesful and the hardware sales are higher. Nothing more
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
AnimeTheme said:
err, yes?
my point is that saying that anime games, whether the licence is bigger or smaller than either of those at this point, reach 100k on psp does not really suggest either good or bad sales.
let me put it another way: i don't think looking at gundam scad hammers and saying "it did 100k!" says anything about the wii. i don't think looking at bleach 22 ds or whatever they're on and saying "it did 100k!" says anything about the ds. i don't think looking at the blob of mid-tier anime games for psp really says much about the psp more broadly.
i think at best you can say "the psp has a 100k-400k audience for some kinds of anime games", which is true. i'd say the ds's audience for anime games is roughly similar in size but tilted slightly in focus because of the technical limitations (2d vs 3d, action versus rpg, etc) of the ds. i can't imagine that as a dev i'd put most anime games on the wii, although there would be some situations i guess (open-world games, maybe? if i had an anime game that tilted younger and wasn't technically possible on the ds, maybe? nothing fixed in stone). i'd put stuff like gundam musou on ps2/psp/ps3/360.
i think pretty much every console right now has demonstrated an audience for anime games sufficient for b-tier relative to the console games to break even or profit.
Stumpokapow said:
How is what he said trolling? Is you down playing PES sales on the Ps3 compared to 360 by saying that Ps3 has a hardware advantage but then in the same thread downplaying PsP software sales by saying DS has sold more software but with no mention of the fact that DS has sold more hardware make you a Sony troll?
Yeah you know your numbers and sales but to feign like you are just an arbiter of facts with no agenda is laughable. We all post with a slant no matter how subtle.
test_account
XP-39C²
Out of curiousity, what are you comparing "generally poor software sales on the PSP" to?Stumpokapow said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Spiegel said:
well i'm not going to take a side in whether or not the wii or the psp has more potential for developers (again, the first party / third party distinction is utterly silly), but i would say that if you want to analyze what's selling, do it in a holistic way.
both platforms have severe shortcomings in terms of breadth and depth compared to the ps2 and ds. the psp has a healthier mid tier (which is tightly grouped by genre), the wii has a healthier top tier (which, yes, is nintendo dominated--but i don't feel as though this means anything compared to the TYPE of games that are there), both have low attach rates. how you break out both platforms is up to you, but you don't start with "nintendo games don't count" or "look, some anime games did well on psp". both are silly arguments. the first is a false distinction between first party and second party, the second ignores that virtually every console has had a pretty consistently healthy market for anime games.
gtj1092 said:
aww it's gtj1092! yes, i am calling Spiegel, in particular, a troll in this thread.
i didn't downplay the pes sales on the ps3. ps3-360 multiplatform games have the ps3 version spank the 360 version virtually all of the time. i can't think of an exception, possibly oblivion or some other western games. the margin is 2x-8x. sometimes this is less than the ps3's hardware ratio over the 360, sometimes this is less. how is any of this a troll? the 360 has a higher tie ratio than the ps3 in japan.
on the other hand, ds software sales (i can't compare individual titles since there are few if any multiplatform titles) outperform the psp software sales by an enormous margin. the ds dominates the software market. this is true in absolute terms and relative to the hardware base. the ds has a higher tie ratio than the psp in japan.
how on earth is what i'm doing trolling?
and mine is? feel free to call me out. if you think i'm a psp hater just say it. what's my subtle slant?
test_account said:
ds, gba, ps2, ps1, 360 relative to absolute install base.
Spiegel said:
As I've said before, the PSP is really fighting on a different battlefield than the other video game systems, because it is not selling primarily for store-bought games. The tie ratio dropped with the PSP-2000 release and with the PSP-3000 release, and it wasn't super-high to begin with. Rock_Man's graph on tie ratio is really illuminating in this regard. Therefore, higher hardware sales, while typically an indicator of greater sales potential in video game systems, is not such a clear metric when it comes to the PSP.
test_account
XP-39C²
Yep, i think that is trueLinkup said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
schuelma said:
as we understand it right now, EoT is done on their multiplatform engine. IX is not. i guess it's possible that their announcement of a "multiplatform engine" really meant "ds emulator for wii", but i'd be skeptical especially considering i'm not sure a western outlet has EVER broken SE news.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
test_account
XP-39C²
Does Rock_Man's charts count the Famitsu (and/or Media Create) top 30 numbers or do the charts count the total weekly Dengeki software sales? By the way, do we have total weekly Dengeki software sales for example 1 year ago so we can compare it to the numbers now?donny2112 said:
schuelma said:
I expected some kind of Dragon Quest spin-off to test the waters on Wii for possible future mainline Dragon Quests this year, but that is way beyond anything I would expect. My knee-jerk reaction would be that Enix is smarter than that and wouldn't want to risk hurting the DS sales by having a Wii version. I guess it's possible, though. If it did happen, I would also be expecting a PSP version, and since I don't expect a PSP version, I don't expect a Wii version. :lol
test_account said:
My understanding is that he takes the percentages of the total software sales given by Famitsu and somehow works out the full software sales for each system. He'd be in a better position to explain it, though.
test_account said:
I think Dengeki only started putting out real public data again at the end of July of this year.
test_account
XP-39C²
Ah ok. But doesnt it mostly depends on what kind of games that comes out? If there are i.e several of "50k LTD expected games" comming out, isnt it more "fair" (or what i shall say) to look at each individual game instead of comparing them to the absolute install base? A game that sells i.e 50k copies on a userbase of i.e 20 million might still be considered ok/good sales if that is what is what the developer/publisher are expecting.Stumpokapow said:
PSP also has fewer games compared to i.e the DS, wouldnt that also affect the total amount of software sold? Looking at Joshua's site, if i search for DS games from 2008-01-01 to 2008-12-31 i get 128 DS titles listed. Searching for PSP games in the same time period i get 37 PSP titles listed. 2008 isnt quite yet over, but i'm not sure if PSP gets that many games compared to the DS in December. If i do the same search for 2007 instead of 2008 i get 159 DS titles listed and 47 PSP titles listed
I am curious if the PSP total software sales actually are that low as they might seem. I saw some numbers posted earlier in this thread (or maybe it was the last week's Media Create thread) where Joshua's site counted for something like 1.31 million PSP games sold (Tracking the Top 30 Famitsu numbers) in a 4 month period (or something like that), but the Dengeki total weekly software numbers showed something like 2.9 million PSP games sold. I wish that some of the software tracking companies would reveal the total amount of PSP software sale sold since launch (if they have those numbers), but i doubt that we will get that
Ah ok, thanks for the info!donny2112 said:
I wonder how he calculate the full software sales. Hopefully Rock_Man sees this post so he can explain it better Ah ok, pity :\ I like those numbers since i think they give a better picture of the software sales than "just" the Top 30. I am satisfied with just getting the Top 30 numbers, but i am happy that we get the Dengeki total weekly software sales as welldonny2112 said:
test_account said:
Chicken and the egg, but in this case, we do know which came first. Back when the DS and PSP first launched, they both had similar total software sales (at least a lot closer than now), and the DS tended to have better performing games. Of course, it was greatly skewed toward Nintendo at the top of the listings, and PSP being the clear leader in third-party. However due to the DS's continued high overall software sales, more third-parties started pushing games that direction.
Then New Year's 2005 hit, and the DS has never looked back. :lol
In short, the current amount of games being released on the DS vs. the PSP wasn't always that way, and when they were much more equal, the DS still performed better.
test_account said:I wish that some of the software tracking companies would reveal the total amount of PSP software sale sold since launch (if they have those numbers), but i doubt that we will get that
I thought they occasionally posted that data, but I'm not recalling a specific number. The last I can remember is the DS crossing 100 million in half the time or so that the PS2 took to get there. Dalthien/Rock_Man's charts are probably the most complete listing you'll find if you just want to get pretty close to the real figure.
rykomatsu said:
I don't believe so. A long, long time ago in a Media-Create thread far, far away (I think sometime in 2005 or early 2006) cvxfreak posted a comparison between the three. That was when Dengeki gave out more numbers, though.
Captain Smoker
Member
I post every week the updated Software LTD's, but they're mixed Famitsu & Dengeki numbers, but it should be quite accurate and it's the best we have.test_account said:I wish that some of the software tracking companies would reveal the total amount of PSP software sale sold since launch (if they have those numbers), but i doubt that we will get that
Software LTD's
Launch - 08/03/2008 = Famitsu
08/03 - 11/23/2008 = Dengeki
Hardware = Media Create
Code:
Software LTD Tie Ratio
NDS 112.773.044 4,67 (+ 0,01)
PSP 25.696.095 2,37 (+ 0,02)
WII 24.368.446 3,47 (- 0,02)
PS3 7.323.845 3,00 (- 0,03)
360 3.741.982 4,86 (+ 0,08)test_account
XP-39C²
Indeed, the DS and the PSP software (and maybe hardware too) sales were closer to eachother in the begining and then the DS really took offdonny2112 said:
I was thinking of more recent times though, since if people say that the PSP software sales isnt that good, i understand this as they are talking about how the situation is right now and maybe in the previous half year or so (hence that they say "isnt" and not "wasnt"), but maybe they mean the PSP preformance on an average level since the PSP was launched In my understandings i think that the PSP sales, both software and hardware, have increased in preformance compared to how the situation was around the PSP maybe like 1.5 years ago. If you add all the years together, i guess that the PSP situation might look worse on an average because the PSP's preformace wasnt exaclty that good before, atleast not compared to how things are with the PSP these days.
I am not sure what that gives the best picture (atleast in the PSP's case), comparing all the years together and find the average, or look on how the situation has beeen i.e the last half year or so.
Oh, i must have missed those numbers thendonny2112 said:
Hopefully we will get some more recent update on the total software sales for each gaming system in the future (hopefully in the near future) sometimes Ye, Dalthien/Rock_Man's charts seems to be pretty good, thanks for the tip! Captain Smoker said:I post every week the updated Software LTD's, but they're mixed Famitsu & Dengeki numbers, but it should be quite accurate and it's the best we have.
... and then there's Captain Smoker who's started posting the system LTDs using the Dengeki data, as well.
test_account
XP-39C²
Ye, i have seen this and i really like this info, thanks for posting this!Captain Smoker said:I post every week the updated Software LTD's, but they're mixed Famitsu & Dengeki numbers, but it should be quite accurate and it's the best we have.
Software LTD's
Launch - 08/03/2008 = Famitsu
08/03 - 11/23/2008 = Dengeki
Hardware = Media Create
Code:Software LTD Tie Ratio NDS 112.773.044 4,67 (+ 0,01) PSP 25.696.095 2,37 (+ 0,02) WII 24.368.446 3,47 (- 0,02) PS3 7.323.845 3,00 (- 0,03) 360 3.741.982 4,86 (+ 0,08)
But seeing how the difference between the Famitsu Top 30 numbers and the Dengeki total weekly software numbers for the PSP was something like 1.4 million in a difference in the last 4 months or so, i wonder how things were before Dengeki started to give out this total weekly software numbers. I am happy with the numbers that we get now, but i am just curious about how many PSP (or any other gaming system for that matter) games that were going "under the radar" like 1,5 years ago, if it was many or few. I think that would have been interesting to know
Jasoncheng
Member
Gpara-Ranking(11/24~11/30)(numbers form MediaCreate)
http://www.gpara.com/ranking/mediacreatebn/ranking_20081204.php
TOP30
NDS:12
PSP:7
Wii:7
PS3:3
XBOX360:1
http://www.gpara.com/ranking/mediacreatebn/ranking_20081204.php
TOP30
NDS:12
PSP:7
Wii:7
PS3:3
XBOX360:1
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
01. [NDS] Professor Layton and the Last Time Travel (Level 5) 347,360 / NEW
02. [PS3] Winning 11 2009 (Konami) 168,405 / NEW
03. [WII] Animal Crossing: City Folk (Nintendo) 108,547 / 413,727
04. [NDS] Chrono Trigger DS (Square Enix) 80,157 / 351,025
05. [PSP] Yu-Gi-Oh Tag Force 3 (Konami) 64,179 / NEW
06. [PSP] Gundam vs. Gundam (Namco Bandai) 56,557 / 323,489
07. [NDS] Hoshi no Kirby: Ultra Super Deluxe (Nintendo) 56,176 / 474,749
08. [PSP] Silent Hill 3 (Spike) 53,966 / NEW
09. [PSP] Musou Orochi: Maou Sairin (KOEI) 45,809 / NEW
10. [PSP] Higurashi Daybreak (Alchemist) 32,639 / NEW
11. [NDS] Wagamama Fashion Girls Mode (Nintendo) 32,033
12. [NDS] Rhythm Tengoku Gold (Nintendo) 30,334
13. [NDS] Pokémon Platinum (Pokémon) 30,133
14. [NDS] Higurashi no Naku Koro Volume 2 (Alchemist)
15. [NDS] Soccer Tsuku DS: Touch & Direct (SEGA)
16. [NDS] Tamagotchi Star School??? (Namco Bandai)
17. [WII] Wii Fit (Nintendo)
18. [PSP] Patapon Domchaka 2 (SCE)
19. [WII] Rune Factory Frontier (Marvelous)
20. [PS3] Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Spec III (SCE)
21. [WII] Naruto - Ninja Wars: Gekitou Kingdom EX3 (Takara Tommy)
22. [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo)
23. [360] The Last Remnant (Square Enix)
24. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (PSP the Best) (Capcom)
25. [NDS] Tongariboushi and the 365 Days of Magic (Konami)
26. [PSP] Legend of Heroes: Sora no Kiseki set (Falcom)
27. [WII] Wii Music (Nintendo)
28. [NDS] Animal Crossing: Wild World (Nintendo)
29. [PS3] Way of the Samurai 3 (Spike)
30. [WII] Wii Sports (Nintendo)
test_account said:
This is certainly true, but Spiegel's contention was that, since the PSP has sold more software overall (and more 3rd party software specifically) this year, that publishers would see it as a better option because of that. However, as a publisher, total software sold is a less useful metric than total software in genre A sold. Which Stumpokapow discussed.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I completely missed this thread.
Looks like the New Years' sales are starting to ramp up.
Also, why is Gundam so popular? Are the games ever any good?
Looks like the New Years' sales are starting to ramp up.
Also, why is Gundam so popular? Are the games ever any good?
justchris said:
His contention was that it had sold more software since late July when Dengeki started listing total software for each system per week. Total software for the year is very much in the Wii's favor due to Smash, Mario Kart, and continued sales of Fit, Play, and Sports. All of those except for Wii Play currently rank behind MHP2G but ahead of the second PSP game for the year, PSP.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
RBH said: