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[Deku]

You're talking about a console version in Japan, right? Because PC versions of mainline The Sims titles can make even Nintendogs look like a slow seller.

I'm talking about the DS version in the USA in context of Blur and ED's surprise that it has a nice LTD. It was just an anecdote about how EA games can keep on selling outside the sales-age radar. Sims 2 DS WW LTD is probably a number that's pretty decent considering its done 400k just in the US.

 

[Diffense]

Well, I called DS success the moment I saw it, and laughed at those who were expecting it to bomb due to PSP. Wii, I was extremely optimistic about as well especially given the egotistic aspects of PS3's strategy. But, even though the sales have vindicated my analysis, I'm still surprised at just how well both Nintendo platforms are doing. It is absolutely rutheless and unreleneting domination on the software front and not a whole lot different with hardware.

Poor third party game sales is the third party developers' problem. They have to make games that people will buy for platforms that people are buying. Surrendering all those Wii owners to a steady stream of Nintendo only content will not help their cause. If they want to pick the losing side in a hardware war, they might as well market their own hardware and become another first party.

 

[linsivvi]

Or will I get the "3rd Party Wii Game Y is selling better than the publisher's predictions", even though those games are also mostly the ones averaging about a C +/B- critically, and were also "lazy developer" games (looking at you M&S/REUC)?

Huh? REUC is a lazy developer game? Since when?

 

[jessmo24]

is RE:UC selling aat a secent pace WW?

But you know whats frightening?

The DS girls userbase hasent really fully migrated to wii.

What gonna happen when nintendogs wii, superprincess peach, and other girl stuff hits wii?

 

[Hcoregamer00]

The DS girls userbase hasent really fully migrated to wii.

What gonna happen when nintendogs wii, superprincess peach, and other girl stuff hits wii?

You forgot Animal Crossing, all the girls I know ADORE this game.

 

[jessmo24]

Not to take things further off course, but do you think SFIV could be done on the wii?

without framerate drops? would ken and ryus animations stay the same?

This would also be one of the games to tell us how third parties do on wii.

if I was nintendo Id bundle a classi controller with it.

 

[Defuser]

Not to take things further off course, but do you think SFIV could be done on the wii?

without framerate drops? would ken and ryus animations stay the same?

This would also be one of the games to tell us how third parties do on wii.

if I was nintendo Id bundle a classi controller with it.

Wrong thread.

 

[Busaiku]

But if Okami and MonHun 3 bombs, that's going to be a problem. We'll find out in 2008.

Monster Hunter is one thing, but why expect success from Okami?
It bombed even on the PS2.

 

[dyls]

Sad to say, but I've been hearing this in the developer grapevine in recent weeks. There's a lot of Wii hate out there for some reason. I'll be real surprised if we start seeing big game announcements for the Wii that aren't Nintendo.

People keep saying this and I just don't get it. I've never worked in the games industry, but I have worked in the film, music, and print publishing industries and I just can't believe games would be that different. In those other industries, money talks and everything else can go fuck itself.

The people who make decisions about what comes out are not the creative people, but the money people. They decide what gets greenlighted and what doesn't, and if they saw how insanely popular the Wii was in all major global markets they wouldn't give a flying shit about what the people who worked for them wanted to make, they would tell them to make a workable franchise on the Wii or start looking for new jobs.

I just don't understand how there can be this many autonomous developers who can chose their projects at will. They would have to either a) be bankable enough to basically guarantee that their projects will turn a profit, or b) be financially secure enough to self-publish. I think the number of development houses that fall into either of those categories can probably be counted on two hands, with a couple of fingers left over. Otherwise, they do what the executives at EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc. tell them, simple as that.

Again, I'm not very familiar with how the games industry works, but it would have to be quite different from the other entertainment industries for the Wii to be snubbed simply because the creative people aren't into it, despite the gobs of money waiting for the publisher that is able to crack the massive, and massively growing, Wii audience.

 

[jessmo24]

As far as japan is concerned there has to be a crunch coming.

they cant make money on the 360,and they cant make money on the ps3.

They will eventually have to swalloe there pride an make ds wii games or die.

If i was nintendo Id make them do a Ds ANd a wii game.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Monster Hunter is one thing, but why expect success from Okami?
It bombed even on the PS2.

It wasn't a giant success, but if those sales were put on Wii today it would be the #4 third party game.

However, your point is taken. If Okami Wii is as successful relative to Okami PS2 as RE4 Wii is relative to RE4 PS2+GCN, we'd be looking at something like 30K.

 

[justchris]

Well, one thing about 3rd party sales is that the Wii is in a lot of ways in the same boat as the 360. Which is, a lot of their games sell better in the West than they do in Japan. And a lot of that has to do with the userbase.

I think the Wii userbase in Japan is a lot more homogenous than the Wii userbase in NA, and because of that, the games that sell tend to be those focused on the casual userbase. I just don't think the hardcore or otaku userbases have transitioned to the Wii in Japan yet, and possibly not to any next-gen console, whereas there is a small, yet significant hardcore Wii presence in NA (a place where the GC was considerably more popular than it was in Japan).

 

[EDarkness]

People keep saying this and I just don't get it. I've never worked in the games industry, but I have worked in the film, music, and print publishing industries and I just can't believe games would be that different. In those other industries, money talks and everything else can go fuck itself.

The people who make decisions about what comes out are not the creative people, but the money people. They decide what gets greenlighted and what doesn't, and if they saw how insanely popular the Wii was in all major global markets they wouldn't give a flying shit about what the people who worked for them wanted to make, they would tell them to make a workable franchise on the Wii or start looking for new jobs.

I just don't understand how there can be this many autonomous developers who can chose their projects at will. They would have to either a) be bankable enough to basically guarantee that their projects will turn a profit, or b) be financially secure enough to self-publish. I think the number of development houses that fall into either of those categories can probably be counted on two hands, with a couple of fingers left over. Otherwise, they do what the executives at EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc. tell them, simple as that.

Again, I'm not very familiar with how the games industry works, but it would have to be quite different from the other entertainment industries for the Wii to be snubbed simply because the creative people aren't into it, despite the gobs of money waiting for the publisher that is able to crack the massive, and massively growing, Wii audience.

A lot of times this is true. The people with the money obviously make the final decision. However, developers worth their salt do get to choose to some degree. When the publisher and developer are the same company (Square Enix, Take Two, Activision, EA, etc.) the creative side can make a case that this game can't be done on the "Wii". I'm simplifying the process because there are lots of things that can happen as well as negotiation on both sides. But if a lot of people (or just the people who have the most pull) are anti-Wii, it's an uphill battle to get anything substantial released. Nothing can stop a publisher from farming out an idea to a dev studio, but what kind of quality are you going to get? A lot of hit and miss, because as we all know, not all developers are created equal.

The Japanese situation on the Wii hasn't been all that great, but with the lead getting bigger, you do have to wonder if these guys are going to have to put their prejudices aside and make games. I'm real interested in seeing how it all will play out over the next six months, but to be honest, I don't have much faith. From what I've been told there's a lot of debate about where games should go on the inside both from the money folks and the creative folks and the situation on all platforms isn't helping. A few of my friends (and one of them works at a huge game company) think that Monster Hunter on the Wii is a bad idea and think it will bomb, but if it does great I wonder if their attitude will change. <shrug> Doesn't matter to me, but it's interesting as I don't remember this happening in any other generation.

 

[Jirotrom]

the biggest problem with the wii right now is marketing. A AAA game requires AAA marketing . Z and Wiki imo is the closest thing to a AAA game on the wii by a 3rd party, but where the fuck is the marketing. You know where it is, games like DMC, Final fantasy MGS4, the games that are using huge budgets.

The wii is still seen as a console compared to the graphical monsters and 3rd parties just wont put a big marketing push for games on the system. Even Nintendo has issues marketing games for wii, the majority of the time they are marketing the system itself more than the games. I honestly just don't see any big AAA games coming to wii from 3rd parties ever.... the mentality is that its a budget system and that equals budget marketing.

BTW, I think monster hunter will bomb massively w/o a strong marketing campaign, especially in the US. If marketing these games means spending money on great CG ads due to the wii's low power so be it. 360 and ps3 games still run CG ads, this stuff just doesnt happen on wii.

 

[donny2112]

Concerning console-focused third-parties shunning Wii: Separating the wheat from the chaff

As there is some talk of how Monster Hunter will do on Wii, what are your expectations? I talked with Stopsign about this in another thread, but it's worth posting here, too.

PS2 Monster Hunter    121K .. 55K .. 29K  ...  289K (20041226)
PS2 Monster Hunter G  128K .. 30K .. 15K  ...  232K (20051225)
PS2 Monster Hunter 2  368K .. 95K .. 39K  ...  571K (20061231)

My expectations are for Monster Hunter 3 to do about as well as Monster Hunter 1 for its first week, as the Monster Hunter userbase migrates over. My LTD expectations would be between MH1 and MH2, though. 500K would be very good for a LTD number but should not be the expectation.

Edit:
As far as U.S. sales go, the original Monster Hunter on PS2 sold < 100K. I wouldn't expect much from the game in the U.S.

 

[justchris]

Concerning console-focused third-parties shunning Wii: Separating the wheat from the chaff

As there is some talk of how Monster Hunter will do on Wii, what are your expectations? I talked with Stopsign about this in another thread, but it's worth posting here, too.

PS2 Monster Hunter    121K .. 55K .. 29K  ...  289K (20041226)
PS2 Monster Hunter G  128K .. 30K .. 15K  ...  232K (20051225)
PS2 Monster Hunter 2  368K .. 95K .. 39K  ...  571K (20061231)

My expectations are for Monster Hunter 3 to do about as well as Monster Hunter 1 for its first week, as the Monster Hunter userbase migrates over. My LTD expectations would be between MH1 and MH2, though. 500K would be very good for a LTD number but should not be the expectation.

Edit:
As far as U.S. sales go, the original Monster Hunter on PS2 sold < 100K. I wouldn't expect much from the game in the U.S.

I wouldn't expect much from Monster Hunter at all, but a good advertising campaign could change that. If they can make it clear what features the game offers to the general public, they could pull off a coup. I have no reason to expect they'd be able, or would even try, to accomplish this.

 

[JJConrad]

People keep saying this and I just don't get it. I've never worked in the games industry, but I have worked in the film, music, and print publishing industries and I just can't believe games would be that different. In those other industries, money talks and everything else can go fuck itself.

The people who make decisions about what comes out are not the creative people, but the money people. They decide what gets greenlighted and what doesn't, and if they saw how insanely popular the Wii was in all major global markets they wouldn't give a flying shit about what the people who worked for them wanted to make, they would tell them to make a workable franchise on the Wii or start looking for new jobs.

I just don't understand how there can be this many autonomous developers who can chose their projects at will. They would have to either a) be bankable enough to basically guarantee that their projects will turn a profit, or b) be financially secure enough to self-publish. I think the number of development houses that fall into either of those categories can probably be counted on two hands, with a couple of fingers left over. Otherwise, they do what the executives at EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc. tell them, simple as that.

Again, I'm not very familiar with how the games industry works, but it would have to be quite different from the other entertainment industries for the Wii to be snubbed simply because the creative people aren't into it, despite the gobs of money waiting for the publisher that is able to crack the massive, and massively growing, Wii audience.

By and large, money still talks. Don't let EDarkness make you think that everyone looks down at the Wii. It depends on who you know. The people I know in the industry are all generally excited about the system and are working on titles for it.

I'm sure you've noticed in the other industries that opinions are often effected by the projects that person is working on... its isn't any different here.

 

[sphinx]

By and large, money still talks. Don't let EDarkness make you think that everyone looks down at the Wii. It depends on who you know. The people I know in the industry are all generally excited about the system and are working on titles for it.

I'm sure you've noticed in the other industries that opinions are often effected by the projects that person is working on... its isn't any different here.

I sure hope what you say is true.

However, there is something odd going on and I think everybody here can tell. There is a massive disproportion between shovelware and good, solid 3rd party efforts. I can't think of anyone that has brought a real, AAA, developed-by-one-of-their-top-teams games to the Wii. That just hasn't happened. The best 3rd party games on Wii are 2nd class at best.
We have a gorgeous looking metroid prime 3 or Mario Galaxy that show evidence of just how lousy are developers being towards the Wii.

there is evidence that developers ( the good ones ) are avoiding the Wii like the pest, til now, that is very sad.

 

[Bishman]

All I know is if third parties want to sell on the Wii, get their AAA teams working on AAA games with AAA marketing behind the AAA game.

It will sell no doubt. RE4 on the Gamecube. 'Nuff said.

 

[AnimeTheme]

1. Wii thirds party sales are greater than ps3 in every area

GH3 wii> GHps3
Re4 wii 1 mill
ray man 1 mill
carnival games 300-400K
Gh3 wii soon to be 1 mill
Red steel 1 mill

How many ps3 third party games have sold a million?

2. This is a word of mouth fallacy designed to undermine wii support.

3. You cannot show me 1 single 9.0 + wii games that was marketed properly but didnt burn up the charts

4. There si no proof whatsoever that wii games dont sell.

I hope you realize that this is MC thread, and we are talking about the JAPANESE game market.

 

[grandjedi6]

1. Wii thirds party sales are greater than ps3 in every area

GH3 wii> GHps3
Re4 wii 1 mill
ray man 1 mill
carnival games 300-400K
Gh3 wii soon to be 1 mill
Red steel 1 mill

How many ps3 third party games have sold a million?

2. This is a word of mouth fallacy designed to undermine wii support.

3. You cannot show me 1 single 9.0 + wii games that was marketed properly but didnt burn up the charts

4. There si no proof whatsoever that wii games dont sell.

is RE:UC selling aat a secent pace WW?

But you know whats frightening?

The DS girls userbase hasent really fully migrated to wii.

What gonna happen when nintendogs wii, superprincess peach, and other girl stuff hits wii?

Not to take things further off course, but do you think SFIV could be done on the wii?

without framerate drops? would ken and ryus animations stay the same?

This would also be one of the games to tell us how third parties do on wii.

if I was nintendo Id bundle a classi controller with it.

As far as japan is concerned there has to be a crunch coming.

they cant make money on the 360,and they cant make money on the ps3.

They will eventually have to swalloe there pride an make ds wii games or die.

If i was nintendo Id make them do a Ds ANd a wii game.

Man, you're all over the place

 

[EDarkness]

By and large, money still talks. Don't let EDarkness make you think that everyone looks down at the Wii. It depends on who you know. The people I know in the industry are all generally excited about the system and are working on titles for it.

I'm sure you've noticed in the other industries that opinions are often effected by the projects that person is working on... its isn't any different here.

I hope that I'm not giving that impression for ALL developers. That isn't true. A couple of my friends are working on "high profile" Wii games. I'm only looking at the point of why not many of the big name developers are doing Wii games, or their Wii games are low quality, with second tier teams doing the work while the main group does games for the 360 or PS3, or their doing some kind of spin-off. I've gotten many different opinions from different people on the "inside" and I refrain from getting into that discussion as it rarely turns out good even when I talk to them about it. Just saying that there are people on the inside who don't have a high opinion of the Wii and this can get in the way of why certain games don't get announced.

As I've stated before, I want to know what these people are going to do if the Wii userbase keeps growing at the rate it has been. I just don't have much faith in the third party situation changing anytime soon, if ever. As a Wii owner with almost 20 games (and a couple more on the way) I really would like to see more high profile stuff get released. Maybe I'm jaded, but my discussions with people on this topic doesn't fill me with confidence.

 

[norinrad21]

is RE:UC selling aat a secent pace WW?

But you know whats frightening?

The DS girls userbase hasent really fully migrated to wii.

What gonna happen when nintendogs wii, superprincess peach, and other girl stuff hits wii?

Holy shit, dear mother of God, limping lizards, i forgot all about the onslaught that's about to ensue when the Nintendo Girly base move from the DS to the wii

 

[d[-_-]b]

Man, you're all over the place

Well someone's got to balance out the lack of insanity from the missing PS3/Xbox 360 fanboys in MC threads.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Well someone's got to balance out the lack of insanity from the missing PS3/Xbox 360 fanboys in MC threads.

Limits tho...

I consider myself a raving loon, but Jesus... some of these people are frightening.

 

[cvxfreak]

Holy shit, dear mother of God, limping lizards, i forgot all about the onslaught that's about to ensue when the Nintendo Girly base move from the DS to the wii

I'd say it's happening with Wii Fit, unless all those females I've seen buying it don't own a DS, which isn't an unreasonable assumption either.

 

[lexi]

Good to see Galaxy wasn't the proverbial bomb.

 

[JJConrad]

I sure hope what you say is true.

However, there is something odd going on and I think everybody here can tell. There is a massive disproportion between shovelware and good, solid 3rd party efforts. I can't think of anyone that has brought a real, AAA, developed-by-one-of-their-top-teams games to the Wii. That just hasn't happened. The best 3rd party games on Wii are 2nd class at best.
We have a gorgeous looking metroid prime 3 or Mario Galaxy that show evidence of just how lousy are developers being towards the Wii.

there is evidence that developers ( the good ones ) are avoiding the Wii like the pest, til now, that is very sad.

I would say that there is also a disproportion on the PS3, but first...

...I think we talk far too loose with the term "AAA." All of us tend to twist the term to fit our points. "Good, solid 3rd party effort" and "AAA" are not the same thing. A lot of the games that get tossed around as AAA, I would never give such a title. But at the same time, I do consider REUC, RE4, Z&W, DQS, Nights and even SC Legends to be "good, solid 3rd party efforts".... they're by no means "AAA" but they compliment Nintendo's AAA games nicely.

And that, I think, are third parties biggest mistake (especially japanese 3rd parties). They're not making games that garner their own attention on the Wii. They're making games that require a strong fanbase to be successful, but then direct their exsisting fanbase's attention on consoles that their not putting these types of games on. Until they coordinate their release schedules better, 3rd parties are going to suffer not matter what system they ultimately decide to back.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I'm beginning to worry about moku and company health. After all that spinning you must be dizzy. Thankfully there are no Wii releases next week so they can rest properly. Time to charge up your batteries guys!

 

[NeonZ]

I'm beginning to worry about moku and company health. After all that spinning you must be dizzy. Thankfully there are no Wii releases next week so they can rest properly. Time to charge up your batteries guys!

I've seen that you've mentioned "spinning" several times already. So... what...? Do you genuinely believe that the Wii is incapable of supporting 3rd party releases? Or are you just saying that trying to find explanations for the low sales of many 3rd party titles is a useless activity?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I've seen that you've mentioned "spinning" several times already. So... what...? Do you genuinely believe that the Wii is incapable of supporting 3rd party releases? Or are you just saying that trying to find explanations for the low sales of many 3rd party titles is a useless activity?

Useless or not, its tiring after a few times. You know, new releases, nothing spectacular, old arguments all over again. Don't take my posts too seriously though, I'm just trying to comfort moku a little

 

[Eteric Rice]

I could definately see American developers being a bit against the Wii, as we're usually leading the way in terms of graphics and what not.

Japan, though... It's hard to say. I don't live there so I couldn't really tell you their nature.

 

[gimz]

The people who make decisions about what comes out are not the creative people, but the money people. They decide what gets greenlighted and what doesn't, and if they saw how insanely popular the Wii was in all major global markets they wouldn't give a flying shit about what the people who worked for them wanted to make, they would tell them to make a workable franchise on the Wii or start looking for new jobs.

i have never worked in the game industry too, but i always thought the game developers nowaday (mainly in North America) care a lot about graphics, so they might perfer PS3 or 360

but like you said, the creative people are not the person who decide what games they are making. so when the Money people see the potenial of Wii, the developers wouldnt put too much afford on making the wii games that they were asked to do. thats why we see so many shovewares on wii

 

[Nocebo]

Everyone on the site knows that the PS3 is tracking behind the GCN also. Must there be a post in every MC thread saying it? It's been like this since right after it came out. It doesn't need to be reiterated over and over again.

You see the thing with sales numbers... they change over time. Get it?

 

[donny2112]

We have a gorgeous looking metroid prime 3 or Mario Galaxy that show evidence of just how lousy are developers being towards the Wii.

I want Factor 5 back. I really liked all of the Rogue Squadron games.

You know, new releases, nothing spectacular, old arguments all over again.

Wii has had some "good, solid 3rd party efforts" that have done less than what I would've expected in Japan. I still think that has to do with not even having most of the GameCube core users on the Wii in Japan, though. I've mentioned this before, but in Japan, I think a lot of the core Nintendo users left the system in late 2003-2004. As such, Nintendo needs to actively bring them back to the fold to get more core-oriented titles (first and third-party) to sell more. I'm hopeful they've started to bring some back with Super Mario Galaxy and would like to see them all back with Brawl's release.

It's not the games' fault they aren't selling more.

In the U.S., this is much less of an issue. For all the crap thrown at the GameCube by posters on message boards, it sold pretty well in the U.S. and had a lot of good-selling titles even late into the system's life. As such, I think a much larger percentage of the "core" gamers from the GameCube were right there for the launch of the Wii. Twilight Princess sales make that pretty obvious, too. That explains why "core" titles aren't struggling as much over here compared to Japan.

In short, I feel the major reason for disappointing third-party sales (outside of more non-traditional games like Dragon Quest Swords) is the lack of a strong "core" gamer audience on the Wii. As I mentioned, though, I'm hopeful this is already changing and will change even more with Brawl's release.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I think as more hardcore games come in, the hardcore base will start buying games. I expect a nice influx when Brawl is released.

Smash Bros. fans are freaks.

I'm one of em.

 

[Culex]

I want Factor 5 back. I really liked all of the Rogue Squadron games.

It is a shame to see them no longer with Nintendo, that's for sure. They were the only dev I know of that successfully brought bump-mapping to the GC.

On the other hand, after Lair, perhaps it was for the best that they left.

 

[Eteric Rice]

It is a shame to see them no longer with Nintendo, that's for sure. They were the only dev I know of that successfully brought bump-mapping to the GC.

On the other hand, after Lair, perhaps it was for the best that they left.

From what I've heard, they're thinking about making some Wii games again.

I guess after Lair they need to take less heavy risks.

 

[dyls]

I hope that I'm not giving that impression for ALL developers. That isn't true. A couple of my friends are working on "high profile" Wii games. I'm only looking at the point of why not many of the big name developers are doing Wii games, or their Wii games are low quality, with second tier teams doing the work while the main group does games for the 360 or PS3, or their doing some kind of spin-off. I've gotten many different opinions from different people on the "inside" and I refrain from getting into that discussion as it rarely turns out good even when I talk to them about it. Just saying that there are people on the inside who don't have a high opinion of the Wii and this can get in the way of why certain games don't get announced.

As I've stated before, I want to know what these people are going to do if the Wii userbase keeps growing at the rate it has been. I just don't have much faith in the third party situation changing anytime soon, if ever. As a Wii owner with almost 20 games (and a couple more on the way) I really would like to see more high profile stuff get released. Maybe I'm jaded, but my discussions with people on this topic doesn't fill me with confidence.

I doubt many developers were super excited about working on the DS at this point in its life, but now we've even got Itagaki working on it! It's amazing how much things can change, and the Wii seems to be mirroring the DS pretty uncannily up to this point: big hardware sales, huge first-party sales, crappy third-party sales for crappy games with a few exceptions.

I'm a little more optimistic than you that things will come around, although it's disheartening to hear that the people who make the games have the same unfounded biases as a lot of people who play them.

i have never worked in the game industry too, but i always thought the game developers nowaday (mainly in North America) care a lot about graphics, so they might perfer PS3 or 360

but like you said, the creative people are not the person who decide what games they are making. so when the Money people see the potenial of Wii, the developers wouldnt put too much afford on making the wii games that they were asked to do. thats why we see so many shovewares on wii

That sounds like a good way to get fired.

 

[Eteric Rice]

If I were a developer I'd do the best with what I have.

That's one thing I have to give to Capcom and SE, RE4 was ahead of it's time. Kingdom Hearts and FFXII looked fantastic as well, better than I ever thought they'd look.

It's another reason I enjoy watching development for the DS. Seeing developers push their ability like that is interesting. I believe someone from Team Ninja said they enjoyed it, because it's like working with an old car, and you want to see how far you can push it.

 

[Azelover]

Poor third party game sales is the third party developers' problem. They have to make games that people will buy for platforms that people are buying. Surrendering all those Wii owners to a steady stream of Nintendo only content will not help their cause. If they want to pick the losing side in a hardware war, they might as well market their own hardware and become another first party.

Exactly. But who's gonna tell them that? Sony?

They are being pushed in the wrong direction for a reason.

 

[norinrad21]

It is a shame to see them no longer with Nintendo, that's for sure. They were the only dev I know of that successfully brought bump-mapping to the GC.

On the other hand, after Lair, perhaps it was for the best that they left.

hehehe shut up, all they need is to return to Nintendo and myself and every Nintendo fun out there will buy their games in droves. Its just a matter of perspective and they made the wrong decision going to the other side when their fan base is mainly Nintendo fans

 

[Pureauthor]

hehehe shut up, all they need is to return to Nintendo and myself and every Nintendo fun out there will buy their games in droves. Its just a matter of perspective and they made the wrong decision going to the other side when their fan base is mainly Nintendo fans

Oh, yay. Sucky Star Wars games instead of sucky Generic Medieval games.

 

[norinrad21]

Oh, yay. Sucky Star Wars games instead of sucky Generic Medieval games.

They would still be on a Nintendo system and knowing factor 5, they will be able to push the hardware. Their so called sucky star wars games still rock

 

[Anth]

Oh, yay. Sucky Star Wars games instead of sucky Generic Medieval games.

The Star Wars license alone already makes the games significantly better.

 

[Neo C.]

I'm a little more optimistic than you that things will come around, although it's disheartening to hear that the people who make the games have the same unfounded biases as a lot of people who play them.

Not a big surprise, Greg Zeschuk (Mass Effect) said recently, that we all (core gamer AND the game industry) are some sort closed in a bubble. It isn't easy to think beyond the usual things. (Interview in german).

It isn't like the Wii isn't capable for big core games, but you have to invent and reinvent several things. It's understandable that some devs want to do more of the same things and less of the unfamiliar development. That said, there are also a lot of devs who dislike the big size of current teams. These guys surely rather want to develop for the Wii.

 

[CorwinB]

If I were a developer I'd do the best with what I have.

That's one thing I have to give to Capcom and SE, RE4 was ahead of it's time. Kingdom Hearts and FFXII looked fantastic as well, better than I ever thought they'd look.

It's another reason I enjoy watching development for the DS. Seeing developers push their ability like that is interesting. I believe someone from Team Ninja said they enjoyed it, because it's like working with an old car, and you want to see how far you can push it.

John Carmack also made some interesting comments about DS development, recently :
http://uk.ds.ign.com/articles/833/833894p1.html

IGN: Since this is your first Nintendo DS project, what was it like poking at the hardware?

Carmack: It was probably the most fun platform that I have personally worked on. The early consoles that I worked on (SNES, Genesis-32X, and Jaguar) had fun hardware and full documentation, but a lousy development tool chain. A lot of later consoles had much better development tools, but they started playing secretive with the exact hardware specs, at least around console introduction time.

While there are a few nooks on the DS that aren't documented, they weren't things I cared about, so to me it was almost perfect. It is a shame that homebrew development can't be officially sanctioned and supported, because it would be a wonderful platform for a modern generation of programmers to be able to get a real feel for low level design work, to be contrasted with the high level web and application work that so many entry level people start with.

 

[CorwinB]

The Star Wars license alone already makes the games significantly better.

 

[PantherLotus]

Sad to say, but I've been hearing this in the developer grapevine in recent weeks. There's a lot of Wii hate out there for some reason. I'll be real surprised if we start seeing big game announcements for the Wii that aren't Nintendo.

I dabble in Indie Development and also have quite a few friends in the industry both US and Japanese. Many different opinions about the Wii, but from what I've been told the Wii doesn't get much respect even though it's tops in the market. Of course, a lot of this information I get second hand, but that much has stayed consistent over the past six months. My general impression is that there is a lot of confusion about what to do and what devs and publishers want are different things. Many companies seem to be banking on 360/PS3 support for the hopes of selling well in the west.

I have my own theories about why this is, but I won't get into that as not to derail the thread further.

My "FULL OF SHIT" alarm is going off.

 

[Pureauthor]

My "FULL OF SHIT" alarm is going off.

It's not like it's ever off when one is on GAF.