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[PantherLotus]

Sad to say, but I've been hearing this in the developer grapevine in recent weeks. There's a lot of Wii hate out there for some reason. I'll be real surprised if we start seeing big game announcements for the Wii that aren't Nintendo.

I dabble in Indie Development and also have quite a few friends in the industry both US and Japanese. Many different opinions about the Wii, but from what I've been told the Wii doesn't get much respect even though it's tops in the market. Of course, a lot of this information I get second hand, but that much has stayed consistent over the past six months. My general impression is that there is a lot of confusion about what to do and what devs and publishers want are different things. Many companies seem to be banking on 360/PS3 support for the hopes of selling well in the west.

I have my own theories about why this is, but I won't get into that as not to derail the thread further.

My "FULL OF SHIT" alarm is going off.

It's not like it's ever off when one is on GAF.

True. But when people drop the "i have friends in the industry" bomb, and "i dabble in indie dev," they get immediately ignored. C'mon people. We're not fucking stupid. You might have some bare-bones programming experience, you may or may not know some kids that work at Target, one of whom has a Japanese mother, and you claim to have INSIDUR KNWOLEDGEZ that you heard from the "developer grapevine?"


:lol :lol

You don't know shit, and are just covering it up by all these excuses of "second hand knowledge." More like, you made shit up and one time had a conversation about it with a retail clerk.

 

[EDarkness]

My "FULL OF SHIT" alarm is going off.

<shrug> Doesn't matter to me what you think.

I'm not going to get into an argument about whether or not I'm "legit". If you don't think so, then fine. I'll refrain from posting if that makes you feel better.

 

[puck1337]

I doubt many developers were super excited about working on the DS at this point in its life, but now we've even got Itagaki working on it! It's amazing how much things can change, and the Wii seems to be mirroring the DS pretty uncannily up to this point: big hardware sales, huge first-party sales, crappy third-party sales for crappy games with a few exceptions.

The comparison between early 3rd party support on the two systems is a good one and illustrates a few very simple points.

Developers want to work on titles that are properly funded and have enough time allocated to do the job properly. That wasn't the case with early 3rd party DS titles, and it certainly hasn't been the case with early 3rd party Wii titles.

Publishers also land up putting their B-level teams on rushed titles, when they should really be putting some of their best and most experienced people on the job. There are dozens of reasons why this should be the case, but you just don't hear about it happening. This problem isn't limited to Wii and DS, but it's more severe because they aren't/weren't the most glamourous systems.

 

[Stumpokapow]

<shrug> Doesn't matter to me what you think.

I'm not going to get into an argument about whether or not I'm "legit". If you don't think so, then fine. I'll refrain from posting if that makes you feel better.

You don't need to get offended. It was a pretty reasonable comment. Look at GameFAQs: filled with people saying "I have insider info... there's going to be a big game announcement"--unless you have a way of proving what you're saying, we have no idea of knowing if you're a troll, a well-meaning but misguided serious poster, or someone telling the truth.

It doesn't help that almost anyone who is even on the periphery of the industry frequently flouts their insider connections even if they don't have any. How many EB managers or QA testers have posted about how well-connected they are?

There are some posters who have been right enough and here long enough that even though we have no way of knowing for sure, we learn to trust. John Harker would be an example I can think of off the top of my head. I've never seen him post his identity or the company he works for, but he seems to have a pretty good grasp of the inner workings of Ubisoft.

Also, the statement you made was kind of inflammatory, whether true or false. People are more likely to be polarized about a statement the more substantial it is. To hear that there's a widespread anti-Wii feeling in the industry is a pretty substantial thing, so it's going to be greeted with more skepticism and more overtly emotional responses than something more mundane.

 

[papelnabangka]

In fairness to EDarkness, he's not the only one saying that. John Harker, who is supposedly in the industry as well says Wii disrespect is rampant, and it really does show. Even Capcom, Ubisoft and SE that have supported the Wii quite heavilly still favors the HD consoles a fair wee bit. Capcom seems to be positioning SF IV as a primarily HD game. SE still hasn't anything as substantial as a mainline FF, and Ubisoft is still petting their 360 pie and giving the Wii shit most of the time.

Announcements of AAA titles have been really sparse and rare. The HD consoles got a Team Symphonia game, confirmed to be the main platforms for SFIV in the last few weeks while the Wii got...nothing.

Fortunately for Nintendo and the Wii, it's out of the third parties hands whether or not the Wii will stay in top. It's not like the with Sony and MS who rise and fall along with the third parties.

 

[Eteric Rice]

In fairness to EDarkness, he's not the only one saying that. John Harker, who is supposedly in the industry as well says Wii disrespect is rampant, and it really does show. Even Capcom, Ubisoft and SE that have supported the Wii quite heavilly still favors the HD consoles a fair wee bit. Capcom seems to be positioning SF IV as a primarily HD game. SE still hasn't anything as substantial as a mainline FF, and Ubisoft is still petting their 360 pie and giving the Wii shit most of the time.

Announcements of AAA titles have been really sparse and rare. The HD consoles got a Team Symphonia game, confirmed to be the main platforms for SFIV in the last few weeks while the Wii got...nothing.

Fortunately for Nintendo and the Wii, it's out of the third parties hands whether or not the Wii will stay in top. It's not like the with Sony and MS who rise and fall along with the third parties.

They'll have to get over their bias eventually, especially if the Wii keeps up like it is.

 

[papelnabangka]

They'll have to get over their bias eventually, especially if the Wii keeps up like it is.

I agree with you, of course. There will be much kciking and screaming but they will. It won't be a pretty sight.

 

[PantherLotus]

Sorry I was just being Mr. Cynisism and perhaps a little schmucky. Still, I think ethel said it best on the last page: if your company is ignoring the Wii/DS in Japan you won't be in business very long.

If there is any credence to the "3rd party Wii hate," I'll have to assume they are western devs that make FPS games.

 

[Sgt. Killjoy]

A guy who works at best buy is thoroughly convinced Brawl is coming to GC. I said GC is dead, and he said "you'd be surprised"

i doubt that buddy

 

[D.Lo]

Fortunately for Nintendo and the Wii, it's out of the third parties hands whether or not the Wii will stay in top. It's not like the with Sony and MS who rise and fall along with the third parties.

That's the main thing. Assuming the Wii continues to rise, the warning shouldn't be "please put games on Wii I want them plx thks - Nintendo fan", it should be "Do you want to survive Company X? You better take the dominant market leader seriously and quit all the vanity projects - Company X fan". Konami in particular seem to be working on making themselves irrelevant to future generations.

 

[Vilix]

Fortunately for Nintendo and the Wii, it's out of the third parties hands whether or not the Wii will stay in top. It's not like the with Sony and MS who rise and fall along with the third parties.

Agreed. If you look at Japan now, Nintendo has made the competition all but a non-issue. Nintendo seems to be creating a "if you can't beat them, join them" situation.

My only concern is that Nintendo doesn't revert back to their iron fist tactics as before. Iwata seems to really want third parties on board, and is carefull to not make the mistakes of the pasts when dealing with third parties.

 

[papelnabangka]

Agreed. If you look at Japan now, Nintendo has made the competition all but a non-issue. Nintendo seems to be creating a "if you can't beat them, join them" situation.

My only concern is that Nintendo doesn't revert back to their iron fist tactics as before. Iwata seems to really want third parties on board, and is carefull to not make the mistakes of the pasts when dealing with third parties.

If anything, Nintendo is fully applying an almost complete laizzes faire approach when it comes to third parties, including not caring about shovelware crap and not giving out much moneyhats at the other end of the spectrum.

 

[dolemite]

A guy who works at best buy is thoroughly convinced Brawl is coming to GC. I said GC is dead, and he said "you'd be surprised"

i doubt that buddy

Can somebody confirm whether Brawl is or is not going to be released on the Cube? Like an official Nintendo statement would be nice.

 

[Vilix]

If anything, Nintendo is fully applying an almost complete laizzes faire approach when it comes to third parties, including not caring about shovelware crap and not giving out much moneyhats at the other end of the spectrum.

I just hope it turns out the way it did for the PS2 and DS.

The majority of the games released on those plats are crap. But there are SO many that they had a steady stream of A+ games.

 

[Novid]

That's the main thing. Assuming the Wii continues to rise, the warning shouldn't be "please put games on Wii I want them plx thks - Nintendo fan", it should be "Do you want to survive Company X? You better take the dominant market leader seriously and quit all the vanity projects - Company X fan". Konami in particular seem to be working on making themselves irrelevant to future generations.

I dont usually post in these "Media Create" posts, but I sense something that has been really bugging me.

For all the talk about being a Business, and all the rest...this is the first time ever that both the business side and the creative side has systematicaly stated despite all of the money it could possibly make with the Wii, they want to advoid it at all costs. I dont think it has ever happend anywhere outside of the art world.

The creative side of me is saying, serves Ninty right. The business side is saying what the hell are they DOING?

Now dont get me wrong, Japan is undergoing a shift that is more in league with what happend in Shin Chan movie 9 than anything else. But thats the thing though. Outside of Level Five, Capcom, Sony etc, new ips coming even for the DS are too few in number, and those that made Millions in sales arnt the same types of games that made millions back in PS1 days.

I think as well, that the creators and the business men in Japan are quite offended with the Wii on a techology standpoint. Its showing up in there ports because Wii should be VERY easy to make a game for. But even Carmack (and come on why trust his word) says the DS is fun to make games for and it shows. They have not given the same trust to the Wii (outside of a few) and it shows. It isnt fair (Mario Galaxy is a great game regardless who makes it) but as long as they see 360 no where near PS3's numbers, and the 3rd parts making more money (in turn not nessarly in pratice) to 360 and Wii, they are not going to budge a damn inch.

(Just a short aside to this, EA giving up on the PSP is more of a godsend to PSP than is to EA, they may not have the numbers but the games that would have been shut out if PSP was a bit successful, its too huge to count...and come on would you rather have a new IP from Sony or revived franchise from Capcom instead of the shovelware that EA puts out in a moments notice...and besides, EA didnt give enough effort and will be left behind once PSP turns the corner with software in 08)

I really believe the Japanese producers are going to give even more credit to Sony in 08, not less because even despite the fact the DS is doing gang busters, and Wii doing just as well, to them it all comes out in a wash when it comes to there sales compared to Ninty's. It doesnt help matters when the majority of the promotion for next year is centered on four or five games (GT5, MGS4 DMC4 WKS and to a lesser extent Birth By Sleep) and they all have to sell 500,000 to 2 million first week to make a profict. Not to be against Smash Brothers, but even if they made 3 million one week it still will not matter to the third parties. They do want to make money, they just feel along with the creators/gamerunners of these IP's Sony is there best chance.

I feel as though, Sony making there own games will give them a blockbuster soon. One game, and everything can change. Thats the beauty of it. Im still waiting on Ninty to have one new IP that isnt Wii (insert name here) or an anagram of the DS even despite the fact i have to give credit where credit is due, Ninty made DS and Wii a success despite Sony's best efforts.

 

[Grecco]

I dont usually post in these "Media Create" posts, but I sense something that has been really bugging me.

For all the talk about being a Business, and all the rest...this is the first time ever that both the business side and the creative side has systematicaly stated despite all of the money it could possibly make with the Wii, they want to advoid it at all costs. I dont think it has ever happend anywhere outside of the art world.

The creative side of me is saying, serves Ninty right. The business side is saying what the hell are they DOING?

Now dont get me wrong, Japan is undergoing a shift that is more in league with what happend in Shin Chan movie 9 than anything else. But thats the thing though. Outside of Level Five, Capcom, Sony etc, new ips coming even for the DS are too few in number, and those that made Millions in sales arnt the same types of games that made millions back in PS1 days.

I think as well, that the creators and the business men in Japan are quite offended with the Wii on a techology standpoint. Its showing up in there ports because Wii should be VERY easy to make a game for. But even Carmack (and come on why trust his word) says the DS is fun to make games for and it shows. They have not given the same trust to the Wii (outside of a few) and it shows. It isnt fair (Mario Galaxy is a great game regardless who makes it) but as long as they see 360 no where near PS3's numbers, and the 3rd parts making more money (in turn not nessarly in pratice) to 360 and Wii, they are not going to budge a damn inch.

(Just a short aside to this, EA giving up on the PSP is more of a godsend to PSP than is to EA, they may not have the numbers but the games that would have been shut out if PSP was a bit successful, its too huge to count...and come on would you rather have a new IP from Sony or revived franchise from Capcom instead of the shovelware that EA puts out in a moments notice...and besides, EA didnt give enough effort and will be left behind once PSP turns the corner with software in 08)

I really believe the Japanese producers are going to give even more credit to Sony in 08, not less because even despite the fact the DS is doing gang busters, and Wii doing just as well, to them it all comes out in a wash when it comes to there sales compared to Ninty's. It doesnt help matters when the majority of the promotion for next year is centered on four or five games (GT5, MGS4 DMC4 WKS and to a lesser extent Birth By Sleep) and they all have to sell 500,000 to 2 million first week to make a profict. Not to be against Smash Brothers, but even if they made 3 million one week it still will not matter to the third parties. They do want to make money, they just feel along with the creators/gamerunners of these IP's Sony is there best chance.

I feel as though, Sony making there own games will give them a blockbuster soon. One game, and everything can change. Thats the beauty of it. Im still waiting on Ninty to have one new IP that isnt Wii (insert name here) or an anagram of the DS even despite the fact i have to give credit where credit is due, Ninty made DS and Wii a success despite Sony's best efforts.

Ok what?

 

[ghstwrld]

(Just a short aside to this, EA giving up on the PSP is more of a godsend to PSP than is to EA, they may not have the numbers but the games that would have been shut out if PSP was a bit successful, its too huge to count...and come on would you rather have a new IP from Sony or revived franchise from Capcom instead of the shovelware that EA puts out in a moments notice...and besides, EA didnt give enough effort and will be left behind once PSP turns the corner with software in 08)

Que?

 

[Deku]

:lol

 

[norinrad21]

I dont usually post in these "Media Create" posts, but I sense something that has been really bugging me.

For all the talk about being a Business, and all the rest...this is the first time ever that both the business side and the creative side has systematicaly stated despite all of the money it could possibly make with the Wii, they want to advoid it at all costs. I dont think it has ever happend anywhere outside of the art world.

The creative side of me is saying, serves Ninty right. The business side is saying what the hell are they DOING?

Now dont get me wrong, Japan is undergoing a shift that is more in league with what happend in Shin Chan movie 9 than anything else. But thats the thing though. Outside of Level Five, Capcom, Sony etc, new ips coming even for the DS are too few in number, and those that made Millions in sales arnt the same types of games that made millions back in PS1 days.

I think as well, that the creators and the business men in Japan are quite offended with the Wii on a techology standpoint. Its showing up in there ports because Wii should be VERY easy to make a game for. But even Carmack (and come on why trust his word) says the DS is fun to make games for and it shows. They have not given the same trust to the Wii (outside of a few) and it shows. It isnt fair (Mario Galaxy is a great game regardless who makes it) but as long as they see 360 no where near PS3's numbers, and the 3rd parts making more money (in turn not nessarly in pratice) to 360 and Wii, they are not going to budge a damn inch.

(Just a short aside to this, EA giving up on the PSP is more of a godsend to PSP than is to EA, they may not have the numbers but the games that would have been shut out if PSP was a bit successful, its too huge to count...and come on would you rather have a new IP from Sony or revived franchise from Capcom instead of the shovelware that EA puts out in a moments notice...and besides, EA didnt give enough effort and will be left behind once PSP turns the corner with software in 08)

I really believe the Japanese producers are going to give even more credit to Sony in 08, not less because even despite the fact the DS is doing gang busters, and Wii doing just as well, to them it all comes out in a wash when it comes to there sales compared to Ninty's. It doesnt help matters when the majority of the promotion for next year is centered on four or five games (GT5, MGS4 DMC4 WKS and to a lesser extent Birth By Sleep) and they all have to sell 500,000 to 2 million first week to make a profict. Not to be against Smash Brothers, but even if they made 3 million one week it still will not matter to the third parties. They do want to make money, they just feel along with the creators/gamerunners of these IP's Sony is there best chance.

I feel as though, Sony making there own games will give them a blockbuster soon. One game, and everything can change. Thats the beauty of it. Im still waiting on Ninty to have one new IP that isnt Wii (insert name here) or an anagram of the DS even despite the fact i have to give credit where credit is due, Ninty made DS and Wii a success despite Sony's best efforts.

Hello Angel Dust

 

[PantherLotus]

I dont usually post in these "Media Create" posts, but I sense something that has been really bugging me.

(CONT...)

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[HK-47]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Billy Madison rip!

 

[Redd]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Thank goodness, thought I was the only one that read that and said...........what?

 

[Deku]

Ok to the MC sanity defense force, Novid's not wrong to be optimistic about Sony in 08 (though not the PSP software sales) and that the anti-Sony slant here may have riled him up enough to make that post.

Just saying.

 

[papelnabangka]

I do agree with Novid's sentiment that Nintendo doesn't get any free pass from publishers like MS and Sony when it comes to the Wii, and to a lesser extent, the DS. Call it moneyhat(MS) or being the former industry leader(Sony) or stigma(Nintendo ad third party relatioships)but it is what it is.

 

[wsippel]

In fairness to EDarkness, he's not the only one saying that. John Harker, who is supposedly in the industry as well says Wii disrespect is rampant, and it really does show. Even Capcom, Ubisoft and SE that have supported the Wii quite heavilly still favors the HD consoles a fair wee bit. Capcom seems to be positioning SF IV as a primarily HD game. SE still hasn't anything as substantial as a mainline FF, and Ubisoft is still petting their 360 pie and giving the Wii shit most of the time.

Announcements of AAA titles have been really sparse and rare. The HD consoles got a Team Symphonia game, confirmed to be the main platforms for SFIV in the last few weeks while the Wii got...nothing.

Fortunately for Nintendo and the Wii, it's out of the third parties hands whether or not the Wii will stay in top. It's not like the with Sony and MS who rise and fall along with the third parties.

Yup. It was the same with the DS, and it's still the same, at least at least to a certain extent. But opinions change, with "gurus" like John Carmack backing the system for example. The fact that DS is still number 1 and pretty much the handheld of choice if you want to make money definitely helps as well...

 

[lupin23rd]

If anyone needs a voodoo doll or something because they want to punish those evil third parties for not supporting the Wii... well I don't have one so please shut the fuck up.

It's pretty laughable that people thing these third parties are all going belly-up because they don't support Wii fully to your expectations. Especially Konami, who isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I hope we get some solid big-time games from third parties for the Wii, but the whining in these threads is getting ridiculous.

 

[liuelson]

If anything, Nintendo is fully applying an almost complete laizzes faire approach when it comes to third parties, including not caring about shovelware crap and not giving out much moneyhats at the other end of the spectrum.

I think Nintendo's year 1 strategy for the Wii was born out of necessity. In their planning, they couldn't count on 3rd party support, they couldn't count on being the market leader, so they developed an aggressive 1st party year 1 strategy. Wait until after Wii Fit, Brawl, and Mario Kart have been released and hardware sales level off again - then we'll see if Nintendo starts to shift more focus to 3rd parties (and vice versa).

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I made an actual, honest to God attempt to read and make sense of that.

I think (THINK) it is filled with "Well, when X turns a corner..." predictions and the rest is predicated on those ideas.

 

[Stop It]

I dont usually post in these "Media Create" posts, but I sense something that has been really bugging me.

*Continues into cloud cuckoo land*

Que?

Hello Angel Dust

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Thank goodness, thought I was the only one that read that and said...........what?

What they said.

 

[donny2112]

It's pretty laughable that people thing these third parties are all going belly-up because they don't support Wii fully to your expectations. Especially Konami, who isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

If console-focused companies ignore the Wii, they better be making western-focused games or they will suffer financially. Konami is supporting the Wii just like they do every other system. Have you looked at how many games they put out in a year?

 

[Deku]

Konami's never been big on the DS I doubt they'll be big on the Wii unless the PS3 can't pull off somekind of a comeback.

If you want to look at increased and real support, your best bets are
Capcom
EA
and Square-Enix

 

[sphinx]

Wii has had some "good, solid 3rd party efforts" that have done less than what I would've expected in Japan. I still think that has to do with not even having most of the GameCube core users on the Wii in Japan, though. I've mentioned this before, but in Japan, I think a lot of the core Nintendo users left the system in late 2003-2004. As such, Nintendo needs to actively bring them back to the fold to get more core-oriented titles (first and third-party) to sell more. I'm hopeful they've started to bring some back with Super Mario Galaxy and would like to see them all back with Brawl's release.

It's not the games' fault they aren't selling more.

In the U.S., this is much less of an issue. For all the crap thrown at the GameCube by posters on message boards, it sold pretty well in the U.S. and had a lot of good-selling titles even late into the system's life. As such, I think a much larger percentage of the "core" gamers from the GameCube were right there for the launch of the Wii. Twilight Princess sales make that pretty obvious, too. That explains why "core" titles aren't struggling as much over here compared to Japan.

In short, I feel the major reason for disappointing third-party sales (outside of more non-traditional games like Dragon Quest Swords) is the lack of a strong "core" gamer audience on the Wii. As I mentioned, though, I'm hopeful this is already changing and will change even more with Brawl's release.

I am surprised nobody took notice of this post by quoting it. It is very wise and stuff said here is rarely accounted for and I think it kind of complements what I said in an earlier post about the Wii being more in line with the PS1 than PS2.

Like donny said, When the Wii launched nintendo had lost something around 90% of their mindshare since the Famicom days. In that sense it pretty much started like the PS1, with little to no presence in the videogame world and from scratch, from zero, as an underdog. They did what they had to do and thanks to that, Japan had around 10 years of playstation complete supremacy.

Are you people expecting the transition to be complete in the new market leader's FIRST YEAR in the market? Are you expecting 3rd parties to announced or shift their AAAAA games towards the Wii because of 1 year evidence? Nintendo has fucked up TWICE in 10 years, It has been a decade of misshappenings and sad bad coincidences for nintendo, capcom got burned with their "capcom five" and had to go multi, the model for exclusives was unsustainable.

Market leader transitions take time. We all have noticed that home console gaming is truly and utterly screwed outside of nintendo's first party stuff. For me, that is only a sign that publishers are disoriented with the current market conditions and are taking a wait and see approach to greenlight further projects. I haven't seen ONE true, AAA game on Wii or PS3 in Japan (360 does not count).

the coin is in the air, right now. Business meetings across Japan are being held and decisions are being made as we speak. They will NOT deny the japanese home console winner. I can imagine there was a ton of developers who would have loved having the PSP beating the DS in tha handheld warz. Once it was undeniable that DS was the superior option for publishers, haters had to shut up, eat their words, and get their biased ass to work in developing profitable games.

One last thing: The war for global Software sales ( 1st-3rd party together ) between 360 and Wii will remain undecided until Japan as a whole decides to embrace the Wii. Once that happens the advantage the 360 has by selling loads in the west will be sort of neutralized.

lets see what happens in 2008.... I expect huge announcement, either way.

 

[oldie-newbie]

I am not surprised by Wii and SMG numbers.
For anecdotical evidence, I was in Brussels on December 22nd and in two big shopping centers (Fnac and Media Markt) Wii and SMG were sold out and Wii software (MP8, M&S, Brain Academy, RE) sold like hot cakes.
And Sony can thank Nintendo because some people bought a PS3 because Wii were not available :lol

 

[apujanata]

I am not surprised by Wii and SMG numbers.
For anecdotical evidence, I was in Brussels on December 22nd and in two big shopping centers (Fnac and Media Markt) Wii and SMG were sold out and Wii software (MP8, M&S, Brain Academy, RE) sold like hot cakes.
And Sony can thank Nintendo because some people bought a PS3 because Wii were not available :lol

If only 1% people replace sold-out Wii with PS3, then Sony don't have anything significant to thank for. If 99% of people replace sold-out Wii with PS3, then Sony need to send a Jaguar to NOE exec.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

You guys are assuming that major third parties DON'T have significant projects for Wii.

Most developers and most of the public assumed that PS3 was going to kick all kinds of ass. As a result, developers have been pouring huge amounts of assets into PS3 projects. Since these games take a couple years to produce, developers can't do any major projects now while they are still working on their epic PS3 projects. Once these projects are released, I expect that these developers will be focusing on the Wii60. This won't happen until this year and next year and I don't expect those large projects to hit the Wii until 2009.

Just wait. They are coming.

Also the reason why nobody gives the "industry insider" any credit is the Nightfraud Syndrome: the "insider" who in reality doesn't know shit, tries to hide, annoys journalists, and gets banned for making fun of dead American soldiers. As a consequence, the "industry insider" is often laughed at unless proof is presented of said status. Which is a good thing otherwise every post will be filled with hints from the Capcom's janitor's cousin's mom who told you that Megaman 9 will be on DS.

 

[Sage00]

I expect that these developers will be focusing on the Wii60.

This needs to die. The majority of significant western-aimed 360 projects will be on PS3, and vice versa. Japanese projects will most likely be a 60/30/10 split between Wii/PS3/360.

 

[Redd]

This needs to die. The majority of significant western-aimed 360 projects will be on PS3, and vice versa. Japanese projects will most likely be a 60/30/10 split between Wii/PS3/360.

Hmm I think DS will take alot of those projects too. Maybe even psp if more people buy games for the damn thing.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

A guy who works at best buy is thoroughly convinced Brawl is coming to GC. I said GC is dead, and he said "you'd be surprised"

i doubt that buddy

GameCube did Wii a favor when its userbase was smaller, sharing Twilight Princess with it. Since their situations will soon be reversed, maybe Wii is just returning the favor.

Can somebody confirm whether Brawl is or is not going to be released on the Cube? Like an official Nintendo statement would be nice.

They've given no indication that that's even a possibility. Not even all the games announced for GameCube at E3 2006 made it to GameCube, let alone those announced for Wii.

Konami's never been big on the DS

Well, I count at least 33 Konami DS games in Japan. Though none have been as successful as their top PSP games.

 

[jgwhiteus]

Fortunately for Nintendo and the Wii, it's out of the third parties hands whether or not the Wii will stay in top. It's not like the with Sony and MS who rise and fall along with the third parties.

I'd also say that at this point the question isn't whether "will the Wii be a success?" or "Will the Wii be profitable?" - the Wii's already past the GC LTD in sales and generated mega-profits for Nintendo. So its "survival" really isn't in play here. Nintendo's got enough major IPs in its stable (Brawl, Animal Crossing, Kirby, Mario Kart, etc.) to guarantee good sales for at least a while, and as it seems to have a reasonable handle on how casual/non-games can sell its system, I'd expect another Wii Sports/Wii Fit-type game to eventually help yet again. 3rd party support helps determine the question of "will the Wii be a mere success or a PS2-type-success" (and also "Will Wii owners get good games"), but I think there's more at stake for Sony and Microsoft.

And I think what gets lost in this discussion of "developers like/hate Nintendo; developers want to support/avoid Sony", etc., is that in the end, third parties and even Nintendo and Sony don't have the power to determine their own success - the Japanese customer does. Nintendo could moneyhat a publisher to make the most expensive 3D FPS ever made and put a marketing blitz behind it, but in the end, would it sell decently in Japan compared to a simple casual game on the DS? (its success in the US would be a different matter). I think the bigger choice facing third parties isn't "will I support Sony or Nintendo?"; it's "will I make a game that can appeal to the Japanese consumer?" Some types of games will fail no matter which platform they're on and how much effort and money are put behind them - choosing a platform should be the least of third parties' worries.

EDIT: to emphasize the point, Nintendo didn't begin making games like "Nintendogs" and "Wii Fit" because its executives and developers truly love those types of games as an expression of their creative soul and because they have a vendetta against "hardcore" gamers, despite some forum posters taking these games as a personal affront to their dignity. Nintendo began focusing on casual and non-games because they believed Japanese consumers would buy them in droves - and they were right. But their success was never assured no matter how much effort Nintendo put into them. Nintendo didn't change the gaming landscape in Japan. The Japanese customer did.

 

[Lobster]

Cool sales. Chocobo dropped..bomb.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

You guys are assuming that major third parties DON'T have significant projects for Wii.

Most developers and most of the public assumed that PS3 was going to kick all kinds of ass. As a result, developers have been pouring huge amounts of assets into PS3 projects. Since these games take a couple years to produce, developers can't do any major projects now while they are still working on their epic PS3 projects. Once these projects are released, I expect that these developers will be focusing on the Wii60. This won't happen until this year and next year and I don't expect those large projects to hit the Wii until 2009.

Just wait. They are coming.

I could say the same about the Jaguar but without links or proof to back it up, it's just hearsay.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

If only 1% people replace sold-out Wii with PS3, then Sony don't have anything significant to thank for. If 99% of people replace sold-out Wii with PS3, then Sony need to send a Jaguar to NOE exec.

Jaguar? Can we at least make it a 3DO?

 

[jgwhiteus]

A guy who works at best buy is thoroughly convinced Brawl is coming to GC. I said GC is dead, and he said "you'd be surprised"

i doubt that buddy

Yeah, I don't see how that makes any financial sense (I won't get into the system power debate...). Nintendo wants all GC owners to buy the Wii. Putting the Wii's biggest hardcore system seller on the GC would let GC owners stick with their current system for a bit longer. Any nods that Nintendo has made to GC controls seems more for fanservice reasons (allowing the Melee userbase to keep on playing as they like) than to signify that Brawl will eventually be GC-compatible.

Twilight Princess allowed Wii owners to justify their purchase without feeling they would be missing out on one of the GC's biggest games. Brawl would have the opposite sales effect.

 

[donny2112]

When the Wii launched nintendo had lost something around 90% of their mindshare since the Famicom days. In that sense it pretty much started like the PS1, with little to no presence in the videogame world and from scratch, from zero, as an underdog.

As more evidence of the core users leaving the GameCube in late 2003/2004, here's the total software for the GameCube in the Famitsu Top 30s for 2002-2006.

2002: 4.2 million
2003: 5.6 million
2004: 3.2 million
2005: 2.0 million
2006: 0.4 million

In the U.S., while my data is nowhere near complete, I have the GameCube peaking in 2004 for software, dropping 15% in 2005, and having almost no change (< 2% drop) for 2006. In other words, the core gamer was actively buying software for the GameCube right up to the bitter end until the launch of the Wii in the U.S.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

As more evidence of the core users leaving the GameCube in late 2003/2004, here's the total software for the GameCube in the Famitsu Top 30s for 2002-2006.

2002: 4.2 million
2003: 5.6 million
2004: 3.2 million
2005: 2.0 million
2006: 0.4 million

In the U.S., while my data is nowhere near complete, I have the GameCube peaking in 2004 for software, dropping 15% in 2005, and having almost no change (< 2% drop) for 2006. In other words, the core gamer was actively buying software for the GameCube right up to the bitter end until the launch of the Wii in the U.S.

Very interesting, thanks.

 

[Link]

If anyone needs a voodoo doll or something because they want to punish those evil third parties for not supporting the Wii... well I don't have one so please shut the fuck up.

It's pretty laughable that people thing these third parties are all going belly-up because they don't support Wii fully to your expectations. Especially Konami, who isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I hope we get some solid big-time games from third parties for the Wii, but the whining in these threads is getting ridiculous.

I think this is a pretty good conversation we have going, actually. No one seems to be whining, just throwing in their theories and opinions. Not sure where the problem is.

 

[MrSardonic]

Failing to provide adequate quantity/quality software for the DS/Wii (even after record breaking sales) is probably the biggest mistake this industry ever made.

 

[Link]

Ok, well, that's a little extreme.

 

[Grecco]

I cant believe were even discussing the idea that Smash will be on the Cube. So absurd that it doesnt even warrant discussion.

 

[donny2112]

I cant believe were even discussing the idea that Smash will be on the Cube. So absurd that it doesnt even warrant discussion.

I thought someone thinking that was just a joke. I thought anyone seeming to discuss it was just "playing along."