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[Dascu]

To be fair, Suda probably had a party with those extra 5k sales.

 

[ksamedi]

I wonder when we are going to discuss why a game bombed because of the game itself instead of blaming 5 million people who are willing to buy loads of software. I certainly don't see why people would pick Nintendo games over Third party games unless Nintendo games were actually better. But thats just me.

 

[ThanosOTitan]

The PSp games do not show up in the charts, because no new games have been released. it not Piracy It's not media. The best PSP games were relased a while ago and people who are buying are buying USED GAMES. These game do not show up in the charts. Why can no one here figure that out?

 

[Kiriku]

I think the feature to play your PSP games also on your TV is very compelling to many PSPfat owners, isn´t it?

Doubt it. I was excited about the feature myself, but I've rarely used it. Too much hassle just to get a bigger screen (that's not even full-screen). I can't see people being that desperate for a bigger screen while playing PSP games, not to mention it's uncomfortable with the short cable, limited battery life, and the less than ergonomic shape of the PSP as a controller for longer stretches of time.

 

[DSXBoy]

Wow at the discrepancy between MC and Famitsu this week:

Media Create:

NDS 266,568
PSP 218,234
WII 207,797
4. PS3 64,183
5. PS2 32,010
6. 360 9,763

Famitsu:

DSL 312,000
Wii 243,000
PSP 189,000
PS3 70,000
PS2 35,000
360 13,000

Can someone explain why media create track Wii & DS sales much lower than Famitsu but PSP sales are tracked much higher????

 

[Kiriku]

Where's the picture where they're holding the cups? 'Cause that was a total moment.

Cups? I always thought it was rolls of toilet paper? :/

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

NiGHTS and Soul Calibur Legends from the exact same release day as the other two games you named.

Well I have my opinions, but i'll generally leave Nights out of this. But why was Soul Calibur Legends supposed to sell? On name? Everything i've read states that it was a quick cash in game.

Chocobo Tales is definitely concerning to me, and Nights should have performed better, but I don't see 3rd parties crying "fuck the Wii" as loudly as Sales age seems to be.

 

[Magicpaint]

I'm just glad Super Mario Galaxy is still selling.

 

[SovanJedi]

The PSp games do not show up in the charts, because no new games have been released. it not Piracy It's not media. The best PSP games were relased a while ago and people who are buying are buying USED GAMES. These game do not show up in the charts. Why can no one here figure that out?

Every games console has used games, I don't see why the PSP's secondhand market is a special case.

 

[jgwhiteus]

NiGHTS and Soul Calibur Legends from the exact same release day as the other two games you named.

Hmm, at the same time NiGHTS was released by Sega, which is having a (mega) success with M&S, even if it isn't published by them in Japan, and We Love Golf is published by Capcom, which is having success with RE:4 and RE:UC. So maybe Sega will release more casual games for the Wii and Capcom will release more "hardcore" games :/

One question, though - were there any third party franchises that were relatively successful on the GC? Maybe one reason that the RE games have been doing relatively well is that Capcom built up an RE fanbase on the GC which has somewhat carried over to the Wii. Other third parties that pretty much abandoned the GC or gave it crappy spinoffs might be seeing that they have no built-in fanbase to sell their games to, and are starting from scratch. For example, was there a Chocobo Tales game on the GC before?

I think one reason S-E is releasing all these DQ remakes on DS before DQIX is to ensure the entire DQ fanbase has transferred to the DS before their big game comes out (not that the fanbase needs much convincing). For the Wii, it might be a case of non-GC support coming back to bite some third parties in the ass and having to struggle a bit to build a fanbase on the system, and GC supporters (and I can't really name any besides Capcom) reaping the early benefits of the Wii's success.

 

[Pureauthor]

Well I have my opinions, but i'll generally leave Nights out of this. But why was Soul Calibur Legends supposed to sell? On name? Everything i've read states that it was a quick cash in game.

I'm not going to predict what Namco expected SCLegends to sell since the inner workings of their corporations are completely lost to me, but I get a hunch they weren't expecting sub-10K sales.

 

[Souldriver]

Can someone explain why media create track Wii & DS sales much lower than Famitsu but PSP sales are tracked much higher????

I don't think there's an explanation. Either it's a correction of some discrepancies between them that occured a few weeks ago, or the discrepancy will disappear in the coming weeks. In the end, the numbers between Famitsu and MC are pretty close. So, I guess we'll either see MC systematically lower the numbers for the PSP the coming weeks, or Famitsu will post higher PSP numbers the coming week.

 

[Dascu]

While we're on the matter of GCN -> Wii comparison, I'd like to mention that some "franchises" have had increased success on the Wii than on the GCN.

Take Killer7 and NMH for example. Whereas Killer7 dabbled around the 10k area, NMH sold about a whopping 15k. That's a 50% increase, people!

 

[damisa]

OK, i'm probably gonna get torched for this, but what third party Wii games have bombed so horribly as to drive all third party support away from the platform indefinitely?

So far I've got Chocobo Tales, and We Love Golf. What else am I forgetting?

Nothing is going to drive all third party support away from the wii indefinitely. That's just ridiculous overreaction. Even gamecube and N64 had 3rd party support. The better question is, what will make 3rd parties choose wii as their highest prioirty over the DS or 360/PS3/PC.

I can't think of anything so far. Third party sells better on DS and 360(Ps3/PC sales are bonus). Even if you consider only japan where 360 struggles, wii 3rd party isn't exactly doing well, more like less terrible than PS3/360.

 

[ThanosOTitan]

Every games console has used games, I don't see why the PSP's secondhand market is a special case.

Because no New games are really being relased for the system with any consistancy, and if you have nothing relased you cannot sell anything, so people are buying the backlog, which are not tracked. Other systems are getting a healthy supply of new content. Publishers have abandoned the platform early on and left it for dead. Now that it is selling better, we are left with this situation. I don't know if current sales will mean more supoort or not. But we will see next year. i guarnetee any new high buget games for the system Will sell well.

 

[giggas]

While we're on the matter of GCN -> Wii comparison, I'd like to mention that some "franchises" have had increased success on the Wii than on the GCN.

Take Killer7 and NMH for example. Whereas Killer7 dabbled around the 10k area, NMH sold about a whopping 15k. That's a 50% increase, people!

As much as I don't want them to be, how is Grasshopper not out of business yet?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I'm not going to predict what Namco expected SCLegends to sell since the inner workings of their corporations are completely lost to me, but I get a hunch they weren't expecting sub-10K sales.

Fair enough, but i'm still of the opinion that its complete bombing can't be completely and totally blamed on Wii.

That said I have no explanation for We Love Golf, Nights and Chocobo Tales, but No More Heroes did better than its spiritual predecessor.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

As much as I don't want them to be, how is Grasshopper not out of business yet?

Not every title has to sell 100k to keep a developer afloat.

 

[marc^o^]

Know your history. Its always been like this, even during that tragic year 1997, they were still releasing million sellers at will.

How many million sellers did they have on N64? I'd be interested to know about the GBA as well.

 

[ksamedi]

I'm not going to predict what Namco expected SCLegends to sell since the inner workings of their corporations are completely lost to me, but I get a hunch they weren't expecting sub-10K sales.

Who cares really? I don't see why you can make predictions of what a company was expecting from a particular low budget game. Surely they wern't expecting this to do 100k in Japan. Even if they were expecting this I don't see why they would blame the Wii userbase for this because software is selling.

 

[Zombie James]

How many million sellers did they have on N64? I'd be interested to know about the GBA as well.

N64 [37]
GBA [29]

 

[ksamedi]

Nothing is going to drive all third party support away from the wii indefinitely. That's just ridiculous overreaction. Even gamecube and N64 had 3rd party support. The better question is, what will make 3rd parties choose wii as their highest prioirty over the DS or 360/PS3/PC.

I can't think of anything so far. Third party sells better on DS and 360(Ps3/PC sales are bonus). Even if you consider only japan where 360 struggles, wii 3rd party isn't exactly doing well, more like less terrible than PS3/360.

1) Wii is selling like crazy
2) Console historically have had higher software sales
3) Higher profit margins on console software than on DS
4) Why not make quality products for both DS and Wii instead of just DS?

 

[SovanJedi]

As much as I don't want them to be, how is Grasshopper not out of business yet?

Apparently they work on really tight budgets for their games. Whether it's lesser staff, lesser technology or what, but they're pretty shoestring with their expenditure. Believe it or not they have made profit on some of their games.

Or it could be because of one of their musicians also contributed to Smash Bros. Brawl. I bet that brought in quite a few bob.

 

[giggas]

Not every title has to sell 100k to keep a developer afloat.

I know but it seems like all of their stuff has bombed. Have they had anything that was considered a decent seller?

 

[marc^o^]

N64 [37]

That's not in Japan only, is it?

 

[Dascu]

As much as I don't want them to be, how is Grasshopper not out of business yet?

They probably make some decent cash on their music production as well. They've made a few licensed games too, so they might've gotten paid for that, regardless of bad sales. I'm wondering how they could finance a PS3 or X360 project though.

 

[Conrad Link]

Anyone at Namco thinking SCLegends would sell like crazy would have had to be craaazy themselves, maybe they just thought hey we might get lucky and people buy it for some reason.

Doesn't seem like a good reason to develop a game, but stuff that seems completely obvious to me still happens in gaming on a constant bases so I've stopped acting surprised anymore.

Were people supposed to be interested in it? They announced it then what seemed like a few weeks later word came out that SC4 was hitting PS3/360 and people were like oh ok so thats the next real game and basically forgot SCLegends was even on the way still.

And if they expected Wii owners to lap it up instead of SC4 well, I'd say the biggest sales that series was gonna get was from the hardcores, and they wanted a SC fighting game not some 'offshoot' - and yet Wii will get blamed for "Oh they don't buy 3rd party games!" as usual. :|

Anyway re the sales themselves, whoo Nintendo pwning. I love it.

Smash Brothers is gonna be complete madness, I can't wait!

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Nothing is going to drive all third party support away from the wii indefinitely. That's just ridiculous overreaction. Even gamecube and N64 had 3rd party support. The better question is, what will make 3rd parties choose wii as their highest prioirty over the DS or 360/PS3/PC.

I can't think of anything so far. Third party sells better on DS and 360(Ps3/PC sales are bonus). Even if you consider only japan where 360 struggles, wii 3rd party isn't exactly doing well, more like less terrible than PS3/360.

Well, this is my argument; In Japan, support will go this way:

DS>Wii>PS3>PSP With either PS3 or PSP being interchangeable. I can finitely determine that because PS360 isn't as jointly successful as it is in America. I think the Japanese will embrace the DS and Wii in Japan conclusively. America is a different story altogether.

 

[giggas]

They probably make some decent cash on their music production as well. They've made a few licensed games too, so they might've gotten paid for that, regardless of bad sales. I'm wondering how they could finance a PS3 or X360 project though.

Yeah, you're right. I just read their wiki entry, and I didn't realize they Samurai Champloo. Actually, I'm pretty surprised by the amount of games they've done.

 

[Core407]

The Japanese sure do hate traditional gaming.

 

[Defuser]

I know but it seems like all of their stuff has bombed. Have they had anything that was considered a decent seller?

It may have bombed but I bet they still making a profit considering the games they done are very very low budget.

 

[Link]

The Japanese sure do hate traditional gaming.

I see plenty of traditional games in there.

 

[jarrod]

NiGHTS was dissapointing but not really unexpected. SCL never had a shot though, even mainline Soul Caliburs don't sell too much in the region, nevermind a cheapo spinoff.

Chocobo Labyrinth and We Love Golf! were the surprises though. Chocobo especially, which really had almost everything going for it I thought (nice visuals, established IP, popular genre, respected developer). Golf was more iffy, but in the end I figured Calemot's pedigree would pull it through... too bad, guess we can kiss We Love Tennis! goodbye. :/

So what's the next notable 3rd party Wii game to look out for? Shiren 3? Winning Eleven 2008? Family Ski? Deca Sporta?

 

[Core407]

I see plenty of traditional games in there.

Sorry, I meant traditional next-gen games.

Edit: I enjoy the Wii as much as the next guy but the whole Wii domination shit is just ruining the industry.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Sorry, I meant traditional next-gen games.

Edit: I enjoy the Wii as much as the next guy but the whole Wii domination shit is just ruining the industry.

Oh God, this again.

 

[giggas]

Sorry, I meant traditional next-gen games.

Edit: I enjoy the Wii as much as the next guy but the whole Wii domination shit is just ruining the industry.

I don't see how video games selling really well is bad for the industry.

 

[Shiggy]

The PSp games do not show up in the charts, because no new games have been released. it not Piracy It's not media. The best PSP games were relased a while ago and people who are buying are buying USED GAMES. These game do not show up in the charts. Why can no one here figure that out?

To have used games these games would've had to sell when they were released. Many didn't, compared to the PSP userbase.

 

[Busaiku]

The Chocobo game seems to be doing about the same as the DS Chocobo game (doing somewhat better, given only 1st week Famitsu numbers, since that's what Moor-Angol has on his site). Is it really that horrible of a performance?
I don't know how the ones on the Playstation or Wonderswan did though.

EDIT: Well, in terms of shipment numbers, wasn't that about 50% for the first week (same as the DS one, maybe slightly more sold-through)? So yeah, it's doing kinda bad, but given how the DS one performed, were expectations really all that different?

 

[Core407]

Oh God, this again.

Ninty developed the Wii to be basic and intuitive for non-gamers. Think about what they could have done if they actually made it for gamers. The types of games we are going to see on Wii are so limited and it's not the power of the system that's causing it but the lack of control options for developers to use. Maybe next time around the Wii will be able to offer experiences for all genres and then you'll see gamers flock to it. And when I say gamers, I mean actual gamers - not these new newjack gamers who don't know shiat.

 

[Culex]

Sorry, I meant traditional next-gen games.

Edit: I enjoy the Wii as much as the next guy but the whole Wii domination shit is just ruining the industry.

How exactly is is ruining the industry? The Wii is selling to casuals faster than any other system out there, a demographic that really wasn't tapped last generation. If anything, it's going to help the competition be forced to tap that segment too, which will help the videogame industry grow even more.

It's win-win.

 

[Pureauthor]

Any potential 'ruining' the Wii could've done (and I really don't see much sign of it), is completely offset, and then some, by all the DS is doing for the industry.

 

[Core407]

How exactly is is ruining the industry? The Wii is selling to casuals faster than any other system out there, a demographic that really wasn't tapped last generation. If anything, it's going to help the competition be forced to tap that segment too, which will help the videogame industry grow even more.

It's win-win.

You just answered your own question. The Wii is selling to casuals and these casuals are changing what developers do with their games and their choice of games to be developed. Look at all of the shovelware on the system - things like Carnival games from Take Two that manages to sell 500k+. These aren't real games, theyre just advanced flash games - games with very simple and basic rules that appeal to a casual but for a real gamer, they do nothing.

Edit: These casuals are basically telling developers to put out the types of games they want and those games 90% of the time SUCK DICK. How can any Wii owner not see how much shovelware is on the system. Yeah, there are good titles but those titles are from Ninty mostly.

 

[AniHawk]

Think about what they could have done if they actually made it for gamers.

I think it was called the Gamecube.

 

[Pureauthor]

You just answered your own question. The Wii is selling to casuals and these casuals are changing what developers do with their games and their choice of games to be developed. Look at all of the shovelware on the system - things like Carnival games from Take Two that manages to sell 500k+. These aren't real games, theyre just advanced flash games - games with very simple and basic rules that appeal to a casual but for a real gamer, they do nothing.

No, see, it's not ruining the industry. They're ruining your idealized and frankly completely unrealistic perception of what you want the industry to be.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Ninty developed the Wii to be basic and intuitive for non-gamers. Think about what they could have done if they actually made it for gamers. The types of games we are going to see on Wii are so limited and it's not the power of the system that's causing it but the lack of control options for developers to use. Maybe next time around the Wii will be able to offer experiences for all genres and then you'll see gamers flock to it. And when I say gamers, I mean actual gamers - not these new newjack gamers who don't know shiat.

I can't help but wonder where you were when games were bombing on the PS3. Why does the PS3 get none of the blame for not being able to sell these games, and the Wii get all of the blame for selling these "non-games" as you call them?

 

[Dascu]

Ninty developed the Wii to be basic and intuitive for non-gamers. Think about what they could have done if they actually made it for gamers. The types of games we are going to see on Wii are so limited and it's not the power of the system that's causing it but the lack of control options for developers to use. Maybe next time around the Wii will be able to offer experiences for all genres and then you'll see gamers flock to it. And when I say gamers, I mean actual gamers - not these new newjack gamers who don't know shiat.

Damn straight. The addition of optional waggle and pointing, next to buttons, is seriously lacking in control methods. Maybe they could've released a classic controller or have the GCN controller work for it too, but noooo. Nintendo is so stubborn.

 

[Core407]

I think it was called the Gamecube.

No - I'm talking about motion controls. It was a conscious decision to make it basic so they could release at a lower price point (It's win-win for Nintendo). Think about if we could have had 1:1 controls. Don't you think we'd be seeing some interesting and intuitive games?

 

[Core407]

Damn straight. The addition of optional waggle and pointing, next to buttons, is seriously lacking in control methods. Maybe they could've released a classic controller or have the GCN controller work for it too, but noooo. Nintendo is so stubborn.

Yep. I hold the Nunchuck and Wiimote and I see so much potential and options for more buttons or more advanced motion controls to do things real gamers would die for.

 

[jarrod]

The Chocobo game seems to be doing about the same as the DS Chocobo game (doing somewhat better, given only 1st week Famitsu numbers, since that's what Moor-Angol has on his site). Is it really that horrible of a performance?
I don't know how the ones on the Playstation or Wonderswan did though.

The PS1 games sold big (around 1m for CD1 and 600k for CD2 iirc). I doubt the WS game sold much though (probably like 20-50k).

Still, that was like a decade ago... I'm not sure if comparing Labyrith directly to the older Dungeon titles is really fair given the vast market shifts since then. And Labyrith is at least selling enough to pop into the charts... I'd say it's dissapointing easily (this game *should* be selling much better than Tales, not just keeping pace with it) but it's not an outright "bomb" (like poor Camelot's game).


edit: Actually, I wonder if Shiren 3 will sell better or worse than Chocobo Labyrinth? Shiren might pave the way for a Wii Pokedungeon too, which I'd imagine might be a big deal?

 

[ksamedi]

I think it was called the Gamecube.

Oh boy, that one sucked. I much rather have the Wii than the Gamecube.