Support NeoGAF

[Oblivion]

Kinda funny how things turned out. Nintendo went the low power route because they never thought that the system would be popular enough for developers to actually consider porting their big games. But now the developers ARE considering that, but they can't BECAUSE of the huge hardware discrepency. Ka-ra-zy.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Kinda funny how things turned out. Nintendo went the low power route because they never thought that the system would be popular enough for developers to actually consider porting their big games. But now the developers ARE considering that, but they can't BECAUSE of the huge hardware discrepency. Ka-ra-zy.

They could always use a different engine and make a second version of the games on the Wii one.

But they probably won't. Money and all...

 

[Wiitard]

You do realize that he actually disagrees with you

Yes, I do. But he made me make my assumptions explicit.

 

[Innotech]

I wonder if biohazard 4/UC will do anything for the system? or DQS? Those are the big questions right now. I know they want RE5/BH5 so they might not buy 4.

 

[johnsmith]

I wonder if biohazard 4/UC will do anything for the system? or DQS? Those are the big questions right now. I know they want RE5/BH5 so they might not buy 4.

They won't do a thing. They can't. They're already selling 100% of what they ship immediately.

 

[Oblivion]

They could always use a different engine and make a second version of the games on the Wii one.

But they probably won't. Money and all...

And this makes guessing how much power Wii2 will have all the more difficult. If Wii totally dominates this gen, would Nintendo feel the need to make Wii2 strong enough to make any possible porting easier from Xbox720 and..well, Xbox720?

 

[Juwanna Peezadis]

And this makes guessing how much power Wii2 will have all the more difficult. If Wii totally dominates this gen, would Nintendo feel the need to make Wii2 strong enough to make any possible porting easier from Xbox720 and..well, Xbox720?

I'd imagine they'd adopt a strategy similar to their current one. That is: offer whatever is affordable that still makes them a pile of cash per unit.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I'd imagine they'd adopt a strategy similar to their current one. That is: offer whatever is affordable that still makes them a pile of cash per unit.

Yep. No reason play the game where you try and have the most powerful console when playing that game doesn't guarantee a win. Hell. At this point that game is really only beneficial to the graphics whores.

It's a no-win for the consumers because it makes the consoles more expensive. It's a no-win for the console manufacturer, because they have to sell at a loss in order to keep the price within reason for the consumers. It's also a no-win for the software developers, because it's costs more money for them to develop arts assets for, and therefore they have to sell more units to break even, and therefore it's harder for them to turn a profit.

I expect a small CPU boost, a small RAM boost, and maybe the ability to render and display at HD resolutions, but at significant cost to complexity. I also expect them to eventually require 16:9, 4:3, and progressive scan, and maybe include a HANA like scaler in order to support a wider range of output options.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I think by that time they could just build a new machine, instead of building on the GC/ Wii's architecture. The GC/Wii CPU/GPU, etc, would be very small, and easy to fit in a machine.

Though Wii2 may not be as small as the original.

 

[Grecco]

And this makes guessing how much power Wii2 will have all the more difficult. If Wii totally dominates this gen, would Nintendo feel the need to make Wii2 strong enough to make any possible porting easier from Xbox720 and..well, Xbox720?

If Wii dominates, its gonna have to be a stroner architecture since both PS4 and Xbox 720 will be "waggleized"

 

[cvxfreak]

I wonder if biohazard 4/UC will do anything for the system? or DQS? Those are the big questions right now. I know they want RE5/BH5 so they might not buy 4.

I imagine Biohazard 4 and UC are going to be some of the bigger third party games to appear on the Wii for 2007. I expect Nintendo put tons of hardware on the market for DQS and UC's releases, and those games will in turn sell more systems.

 

[titiklabingapat]

I think by that time they could just build a new machine, instead of building on the GC/ Wii's architecture. The GC/Wii CPU/GPU, etc, would be very small, and easy to fit in a machine.

Though Wii2 may not be as small as the original.

Meh, I hope they keep the small size.

 

[Polari]

Kinda funny how things turned out. Nintendo went the low power route because they never thought that the system would be popular enough for developers to actually consider porting their big games. But now the developers ARE considering that, but they can't BECAUSE of the huge hardware discrepency. Ka-ra-zy.

I don't think that's true. The point of Wii being less powerful than the competition was lower development costs in general (to encourage a wider range of support), to enable Nintendo to launch at a mass market price point, and drop the price as required, and to encourage developers to make great Wii games from scratch, rather than warmed over ports with predictably broken controls, that won't extend beyond the existing gaming market. Of course on this point, Wii being so close to the original Gamecube and the PS2 has had the undesirable effect of warmed over PS2 ports existing in spades on the system, although this trend presumably will only last as long as the PS2 does (which admittedly could be a while yet).

Seems pretty safe to call Nintendo for Japan. I've got to admit that I didn't see a clear winner coming so quickly, although Nintendo eventually leading seemed like a reasonable bet.

 

[Polari]

I think by that time they could just build a new machine, instead of building on the GC/ Wii's architecture. The GC/Wii CPU/GPU, etc, would be very small, and easy to fit in a machine.

Though Wii2 may not be as small as the original.

Why would they build off an entirely new architecture though? It wasn't technical limitations that held the Wii back. It was a conscious decision by Nintendo.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Is there anyway at all to find any sort correlation between the DS and the Wii? Is the DS' performance having a positive(or otherwise) impact on Japanese consumer perception of the Wii, be it Nintendo's brand name, non-gameness philosophy, etc. at all?

What, if any will the DS' performance affect the Wii in the upcoming months? Years? I know they've tried integrating the handheld and console before with poor results. It would be interesting to see Nintendo try again, especially since both device seem to stem from the same philosophy.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Another thought. If Wii is as successful this generation as the PS2 was last, the Wii will be the default console for most developers when next generation comes around. It won't make sense to bloat development costs and alienate all the developers that were so elusive to them from 1998 to 2006.

 

[tanasten]

I wonder if biohazard 4/UC will do anything for the system? or DQS? Those are the big questions right now. I know they want RE5/BH5 so they might not buy 4.

Both are going to do crazy numbers. I can't stop thinking of children not being excited about DQ Swords, and you know, gamers will love it too. First third party millions seller.

About RE4 Wii Edition I'm not sure. I guess it will be around 1 millions or 1'5 millions worldwide. The game is great, the marketing fantastic (Cheesy marketting FTW), some people who bought it for GC wants it (Wimakes rollz) and new gamers are going to be interested indeed.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Yes, I do. But he made me make my assumptions explicit.

Your "assumption" is a false statement. PS3 is not doing GameCube numbers, not yet. Only in Japan, and unless it falls to weeklies of ~3000, even that won't be the case for long.

 

[tanasten]

I expect a small CPU boost, a small RAM boost, and maybe the ability to render and display at HD resolutions, but at significant cost to complexity. I also expect them to eventually require 16:9, 4:3, and progressive scan, and maybe include a HANA like scaler in order to support a wider range of output options.

We're talking of 4~6 years from now. Shouldn't you expect a little more? HD it's supossed to be and standard then...

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Biohazard Zero did more for the GameCube than the REmake ever did. I remember GC sales being only 1000 less than the PS2's that week.

*checks*
Ahh, a late November release. As that was at the beginning of the holiday increases, I ignored that earlier.

Week of November 18, 2002 by Famitsu
GCN: 32,099 (FAM) or 37,400 (MC)
PS2: 34,668 (FAM) or 38,400 (MC)

What Dreamcast performance? PS3 isn't doing DC numbers in any market.

It's behind where Dreamcast was at 5 months in the US, though there's no doubt it will catch up.

It's above GCN in the US and Europe

Europe, yes. US, no.

And this makes guessing how much power Wii2 will have all the more difficult. If Wii totally dominates this gen, would Nintendo feel the need to make Wii2 strong enough to make any possible porting easier from Xbox720 and..well, Xbox720?

If Wii is really dominant, they'll be the ones setting the standards, not worrying about ports.

 

[Evlar]

We're talking of 4~6 years from now. Shouldn't you expect a little more? HD it's supossed to be and standard then...

I expect them to do what they've always done, which is build whatever mass-produceable machine they can assemble for $200 to (maximum) $300 using mostly off-the-shelf parts. I also expect them to put a premium on maintaining their backwards-compatibility regime. It really has nothing to do with what the display industry considers standard in 2012... it has to do with what the microprocessor and IC industry considers economic.

 

[Oblivion]

I don't think that's true. The point of Wii being less powerful than the competition was lower development costs in general (to encourage a wider range of support), to enable Nintendo to launch at a mass market price point, and drop the price as required, and to encourage developers to make great Wii games from scratch, rather than warmed over ports with predictably broken controls, that won't extend beyond the existing gaming market. Of course on this point, Wii being so close to the original Gamecube and the PS2 has had the undesirable effect of warmed over PS2 ports existing in spades on the system, although this trend presumably will only last as long as the PS2 does (which admittedly could be a while yet).

I dunno. The way I saw it, after looking at their total number of hardware units selling less and less each generation, Nintendo probably thought that they might as well cut their losses with processing power. I do believe that Nintendo could have gone for a console that had an exponential upgrade while still keeping the price to what the Wii is right now.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

*checks*
Ahh, a late November release. As that was at the beginning of the holiday increases, I ignored that earlier.

Week of November 18, 2002 by Famitsu
GCN: 32,099 (FAM) or 37,400 (MC)
PS2: 34,668 (FAM) or 38,400 (MC)


It's behind where Dreamcast was at 5 months in the US, though there's no doubt it will catch up.

Europe, yes. US, no.

If Wii is really dominant, they'll be the ones setting the standards, not worrying about ports.

Right, forgot about Cube's big Nov+Dec. Either way, PS3 won't be doing ~60k through summer (God willing), so it's a bad comparison. Plus Europe.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

We're talking of 4~6 years from now. Shouldn't you expect a little more? HD it's supossed to be and standard then...

HD may be standard by then, but I really don't think that Nintendo is going to go for it. Bringing the hardware close to spec with the 360/PS3 may be cheap by then, but it still won't make sense for them. The only thing that I could see them deciding that way would be if the cost of textures scaled to fit the Wii cost the same as scaling them to fit PS3/360. Maybe in 5 years the technique will be there. Who knows. I do know that Nintendo does not have the same priorities as the hardcore gamer crowd that populates this board.

Lapsed has always been good at painting the picture from what seems to be Nintendo's POV. Maybe help with the reasoning when he gets unbanned, if he gets unbanned.

 

[vanguardian1]

I dunno. The way I saw it, after looking at their total number of hardware units selling less and less each generation, Nintendo probably thought that they might as well cut their losses with processing power. I do believe that Nintendo could have gone for a console that had an exponential upgrade while still keeping the price to what the Wii is right now.

If they're willing to take a loss on the console, yes. But you'd also have to make it significantly bigger and bulkier too, unless you wanna get it REALLY expensive to produce.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Right, forgot about Cube's big Nov+Dec. Either way, PS3 won't be doing ~60k through summer (God willing), so it's a bad comparison. Plus Europe.

GCN's first few months of 2002 were shitty, but it still usually did better than 127K that year. *shrug* We'll see.

HD may be standard by then, but I really don't think that Nintendo is going to go for it. Bringing the hardware close to spec with the 360/PS3 may be cheap by then, but it still won't make sense for them.

It really wouldn't make sense not to at that point. They want things to be cheap, small, and easy, but they haven't decided to go Amish and freeze technological progress.

 

[Oblivion]

If they're willing to take a loss on the console, yes. But you'd also have to make it significantly bigger and bulkier too, unless you wanna get it REALLY expensive to produce.

For $250, even putting Wii's tiny size into account, Nintendo could have put in a 2004 GPU that would have smoked Hollywood, while still probably breaking even, if not making a few bucks profit.

 

[Saitou]

For $250, even putting Wii's tiny size into account, Nintendo could have put in a 2004 GPU that would have smoked Hollywood, while still probably breaking even, if not making a few bucks profit.

But why risk it?

Spoiler

We really need to stop having this argument.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

We really need to stop having this argument.

Agreed. Maybe we can revisit the subject in 2010 or so.

 

[Oblivion]

But why risk it?

Spoiler

We really need to stop having this argument.

I know why Nintendo chose the direction that they did. Just saying that it IS possible to make Wii significantly more powerful without losing $100 or whatever per unit sold. ESPECIALLY at $250.

 

[stewacide]

For $250, even putting Wii's tiny size into account, Nintendo could have put in a 2004 GPU that would have smoked Hollywood, while still probably breaking even, if not making a few bucks profit.

And also break backwards compatibility w/ the GC, throw a wrench in GC-ports/carry-overs like Twilight Princess, SPM, etc... not to mention increase costs / lower profits / complicate everything for little benefit in the end (clearly people are happy enough with Wii-level graphics as-is).

The only change that might make sense would be to somehow 'extend' the GPU architecture (e.g. more pipelines, more on-die cache) while maintaining backwards compatibility. A lot of work that, again, for relatively little gain.

 

[BronzeWolf]

And also break backwards compatibility w/ the GC, throw a wrench in GC-ports/carry-overs like Twilight Princess, SPM, etc... not to mention increase costs / lower profits / complicate everything for little benefit in the end (clearly people are happy enough with Wii-level graphics as-is).

The only change that might make sense would be to somehow 'extend' the GPU architecture (e.g. more pipelines, more on-die cache) while maintaining backwards compatibility. A lot of work that, again, for relatively little gain.

Exactly, I think it's a safe bet for the next nintendo console to take a a new arquitechture, even risking in hardware terms more than this generation, with the casual market already taken. But still not seeing superduperOMGZATON cores in their chips

 

[Eteric Rice]

Exactly, I think it's a safe bet for the next nintendo console to take a a new arquitechture, even risking in hardware terms more than this generation, with the casual market already taken. But still not seeing superduperOMGZATON cores in their chips

I remember hearing somewhere that Nintendo had a contract to put a cell processor in their next console. You'll have to look around to fish it up, though.

 

[stewacide]

Nintendo will really have to go for a clean-slate architecture with the next-gen 'Wii' if they're going to push the graphics anywhere. Although they're in a potential bind in that the system will have to be powerful enough to emulate the Wii (and GC) for backwards-compatability. That itself makes a quick Wii 1.5/HD a non-starter (NO WAY they would forget backwards compatability).

 

[stewacide]

I remember hearing somewhere that Nintendo had a contract to put a cell processor in their next console. You'll have to look around to fish it up, though.

That's beyond rediculious.

Not only would it be a pain to program for (simple multi-core will be a painful bullet they'll probably have to bite), but backwards-compatability w/ 'demanding' systems like the Wii and GC may well be impossible (it would have to run as a single thread).

 

[Eteric Rice]

That's beyond rediculious.

Not only would it be a pain to program for (simple multi-core will be a painful bullet they'll probably have to bite), but backwards-compatability w/ 'demanding' systems like the Wii and GC may well be impossible (it would have to run as a single thread).

I didn't say it was true, just that I had heard about it. I actually found the post on **********, but it was posted before the consoles were released, thus someone's bull.

 

[Innotech]

Seems pretty safe to call Nintendo for Japan. I've got to admit that I didn't see a clear winner coming so quickly, although Nintendo eventually leading seemed like a reasonable bet.

I couldnt have hoped for a better outcome since Japanese games are what I mainly care about. Third party games like Dewey's Adventure, Elebits, Kororinpa, no More Heroes are actually exactly the sort of games I was hoping for on the Wii. Having NiGHTS journey of Dreams and SATSR alongside the given Nintendo first party stuff only serves to make the deal carved in stone. this is by far my favorite gaming system this gen and probably ever.

 

[justchris]

thank god. this place will be bearable again

Don't be silly, there'll be something else retarded to discuss next week.

 

[Deku]

Lapsed has always been good at painting the picture from what seems to be Nintendo's POV. Maybe help with the reasoning when he gets unbanned, if he gets unbanned.

I think he's permbanned.

He had a habit of digging up old posts and threads which made a lot of people and mods look like total jerks and humiliate them with their own words. I'm not surprised he made so many enemies in positions of power. Granted I'm not privy to the Lapsed saga I know his last few weeks on GAF was mired with attacks by some mods about his hit and run style of posting (something I see a lot of people do here day in and day out). I wouldn't be surprised if he was a well financed viral marketer with staff or a lot of personal time to dig through GAF to find those incriminating posts and he was found out.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Methinks Nintendo fan population would be greatly diminished as the Wii ascends to the top in the coming months. A few well known ones have already seen bannination as a result of rubbing the fresh wounds with Nintendo approved salt. It's partly their fault. They haven't tasted victory in quite a while and kinda forgot how to deal with controlling their emotions. Lapsed was especially most intense when he was posting all those crow eating quotes. :lol

Was it this bad during the DS vs PSP saga?

 

[d[-_-]b]

Methinks Nintendo fan population would be greatly diminished as the Wii ascends to the top in the coming months. A few well known ones have already seen bannination as a result of rubbing the fresh wounds with Nintendo approved salt. It's partly their fault. They haven't tasted victory in quite a while and kinda forgot how to deal with controlling their emotions. Lapsed was especially most intense when he was posting all those crow eating quotes. :lol

Was it this bad during the DS vs PSP saga?

I think it's worse for the crow eating crowd. :lol most of them are still in denial.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

He had a habit of digging up old posts and threads which made a lot of people and mods look like total jerks and humiliate them with their own words.

Yeah.... Lapsed was pretty awesome, wasn't he?

 

[titiklabingapat]

Spoiler

stealth edit: lapsed sucks

 

[Parl]

Spoiler

stealth edit: lapsed sucks

 

[titiklabingapat]

I didn't want to tempt the venerable masters, sorry

 

[John Dunbar]

Glad to see Phoenix Wright 4 do so well. Love those games.

 

[AniHawk]

Glad to see Phoenix Wright 4 do so well. Love those games.

It's too bad this is the last one.

 

[John Dunbar]

It's too bad this is the last one.

I've lurked too long to fall for your shenanigans.

 

[AniHawk]

I've lurked too long to fall for your shenanigans.

This could be the one time I'm actually telling the truth.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

And also break backwards compatibility w/ the GC, throw a wrench in GC-ports/carry-overs like Twilight Princess, SPM, etc... not to mention increase costs / lower profits / complicate everything for little benefit in the end (clearly people are happy enough with Wii-level graphics as-is).

The only change that might make sense would be to somehow 'extend' the GPU architecture (e.g. more pipelines, more on-die cache) while maintaining backwards compatibility. A lot of work that, again, for relatively little gain.

That's the real problem with the high tech machines. Did anybody at Sony or MS do thorough market analysis on this? Did they place some renders in 1080p, 720p and 480p and ask if they could tell the difference? Then if they would be willing to pay 400-600 bucks for the thing? And get a good, random sampling? We do need to stop thinking about how Nintendo will play this and wonder how the other guys will play this. Does anybody think we'll see a console for $400 USD or more in the next 2 generations if Nintendo runs away with this?

It'll be funny if Sony or MS has to consider launching the successor with less tech next gen. Or if Nintendo ends up mocking them by saying the PS4 is just 2 PS3 duct taped together.

Edit: I take some of that back. I guess $400 is doable but they need to be in a position to price drop quickly. I can live with $400 machines if they drop w/in the first year. But, I would be more inclined to jump in at $300. Given the market, I don't see anybody trying to breech $300 or more by next gen. Good, Sony's failure is our gain. We should triumphantly welcome their failure.