Support NeoGAF

[Ash Sparrow]

when PS3 launches in Europe i expect 360 sells to accelerate there, i believe an indication can be seen with Japan, i think with next gen people want to compare consoles before they jump in.

 

[soundwave05]

Actually I don't think the PS2 would have dominated as much if the GameCube had launched the same day (and XBox).

Part of the reason why the PS2 had such unstoppable momenteum is because of their headstart, they had virtually every 3rd party working for them first and foremost. If the PS2/GC/XBox all started at zero at the same time, I think you would have seen a lot more multiplatform stuff last gen.

Sony is not as impossible of an opponent when they don't have a headstart (unless your name is Sega).

 

[Pureauthor]

It's not really. PS2 came in at that price and exploded the market, and it would have done that even if Gamecube came out the same day with its $100 dollar advantage. It's a damn fine price to get in at, particularly if you have good technology in the box. It avoids the "it's cheap" aspect and it avoids the "it's too expensive" factor in one swing. Factoring in inflation, it's impossible for a system to come in at $300 for eternity. It has to rise eventually, so $399 is not bad at all over time.

I thought the PS2 didn't explode until there were a couple of price drops?

Notice the markets are different for everything, though. For handheld gaming $199 and $250 was too expensive as illustrated by PSP. Although I think next handheld generation, that will be just right.

Hmm... that depends. Nintendo will probably take the path of least resistance and release a portable PS2/Gamecube in terms of power, which should be significantly cheaper. And I don't think Sony will risk getting burned by the high price point again. So even if you were correct (and frankly, I hope not), who's going to prove it? :lol

 

[Bearillusion]

when PS3 launches in Europe i expect 360 sells to accelerate there, i believe an indication can be seen with Japan, i think with next gen people want to compare consoles before they jump in.

Sales of the 360 increased in Japan because games came out that people wanted. The same will be true of the PS3 eventually.

 

[Amir0x]

I'm 100% positive it would have dominated exactly the same. Sony marketed the thing so perfectly in every way that it would have not been any different whether Xbox and GCN launched the very same day. Well, they would have had an extra year of sales so maybe Xbox and GCN would be at 24,000,000 or something as opposed to 21,000,000.

I thought the PS2 didn't explode until there were a couple of price drops?

You're thinking of PS1. PS2 was a horse right out the gate, although initially it was held back by serious supply issues. Every successive price drop naturally the system got a good boost... but that's just obvious economics filtering in. The thing already gained the positive word of mouth so the more middle/lower class families could afford the thing as it became cheaper.

 

[argon]

Err, after what Nintendo pushed out with the Wii five years after GC, I highly doubt the Wii HD will have 360 level visuals.

I don't think Nintendo has much of a choice if they want some semblance of 3rd party support. Companies will want quick and painless 360/PS3 ports and a console that can support Unreal Engine 3.0 games at a minimum.

 

[Nightstick11]

I think MS and Sony just jumped the gun on HD. The market wasn't ready. Not many HD Tvs sold worldwide, etc. Fortunately, when Nintendo enters the HD era in the next generation, most of us will have HD TVs

 

[cvxfreak]

The PS2 had an excellent lineup when the GC and Xbox rolled around. GT3, GTA3, FFX, MGS2, THPS3 and other third party games were top notch.

 

[Amir0x]

I don't think Nintendo has much of a choice if they want some semblance of 3rd party support. Companies will want quick and painless 360/PS3 ports and a console that can run Unreal Engine 3.0 at a minimum.

But by that time, wouldn't the standard be Unreal Engine 4.0 minimum?

 

[Grecco]

PS2 had a couple bad months in the begining... I mean the launch lineup was awfull.. I dont think it would have done so good one year later either.

 

[Pureauthor]

You're thinking of PS1. PS2 was a horse right out the gate, although initially it was held back by serious supply issues. Every successive price drop naturally the system got a good boost... but that's just obvious economics filtering in. The thing already gained the positive word of mouth so the more middle/lower class families could afford the thing as it became cheaper.

Well, good on the mass market then. Unfortunately, being the poor old gamer that I am, it's price drops, or sticking to handhelds for me.

 

[Amir0x]

i hear that. I'm not so poor, but I AM too poor for SIX HUNDRED DOLLARSUUU!11

 

[soundwave05]

I doubt franchises like GTA would have been PS2 exlcusive if the XBox and GC launched at the same time.

But anyways, that's neither here nor there.

When Nintendo was really struggling a few years ago (around 2003), I told people not to count Nintendo out because they have a habit of coming up with some new franchise/crazy idea that reignites the company almost on cue.

Donkey Kong in the early 80s, Super Mario Bros. in the mid-80s, Pokemon in the mid-90s not only were hits, but they came at abosolutely crucial points which turned Nintendo's fortune from the brink of disaster to massive success.

Brain Training I think really create a chain reaction for Nintendo as a company that did the same thing again. They've carried that momenteum now onto the Wii.

 

[Zombie James]

PS3 hardware outselling PS2 hardware? :/

 

[Error]

PS2 had a couple bad months in the begining... I mean the launch lineup was awfull.. I dont think it would have done so good one year later either.

PS2 also didnt have any decent competition for at least a year and by then it didnt even matter. plus it was cheaper I mean my point is that the situation is totally different now.

 

[Deku]

The PS2 had an excellent lineup when the GC and Xbox rolled around. GT3, GTA3, FFX, MGS2, THPS3 and other third party games were top notch.

In Japan, Squaresoft was in Sony's pocket which pretty much shut the door to all challengers. That is not the case anymore.

I also think the DS doing so well gives Nintendo, as a challenger some leverage and mind share over a ton of developers if you view the market as a whole where hardware manufacturers are on one side and software on another and each having relative bargaining power over the other.

 

[argon]

But by that time, wouldn't the standard be Unreal Engine 4.0 minimum?

I'm just saying 3rd parties will want to re-use a lot of their old code and HD assets for Wii2, and there will be plenty of UE3.0 games in publishers' back catalogs. Releasing a HD console in 2009/10 that doesn't support it adequately would piss off a lot of publishers.

 

[cvxfreak]

I wonder how Nintendo will handle BC (GC/Wii) next generation if they had to go with a new chipset while trying to maintain 360/PS3 quality graphics at an affordable price.

 

[Deku]

I'm just saying 3rd parties will want to re-use a lot of their old code and HD assets for Wii2, and there will be plenty of UE3.0 games in publishers' back catalogs. Releasing a HD console in 2009/10 that doesn't support it adequately would piss off a lot of publishers.

It depends on what the Japanese developers will be doing this gen. S-E getting the engine increases the chances of the next platform being able to run. As much as Nintendo is a global company their focus is much more local. In terms of software development their motto is to create good software that have global appeal but are largely aimed at a local audience (although this is changing).

This is what makes them different from their competitors.

I wonder how Nintendo will handle BC (GC/Wii) next generation if they had to go with a new chipset while trying to maintain 360/PS3 quality graphics at an affordable price.

Emulation? They could also put Wii on a chip and use it as a co-processor which would immediately grant them Wii/GC computability. I think cost will be the real driver here, but BC is a big thing for consumers now and they won't abandon it lightly.

 

[dirtmonkey37]

when PS3 launches in Europe i expect 360 sells to accelerate there, i believe an indication can be seen with Japan, i think with next gen people want to compare consoles before they jump in.

I guess I can see your reasoning....... but it's a bit too hopeful for the 360.

Who knows, maybe you're right, and I would like to agree with you whole-heartedly (because I really have no intentions of shelling out 650 dollars for another videogame console; had I not already purchased the 360, I would consider it, but I have, and 600 for another is unecessary) but it seems......too hopeful.

I have yet to see console sales for this week.....PS3 and 360 are still about 200K units apart though.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

You could say the same thing about X360 and Halo 3.

No, I can't say Halo, as a franchise is on another level from almost anything. The vast majority is going to already have a 360 when this launches. Halo 3 will still be a hardware driver though.

 

[imkoma]

when PS3 launches in Europe i expect 360 sells to accelerate there, i believe an indication can be seen with Japan, i think with next gen people want to compare consoles before they jump in.

i want to believe!! but no

 

[castle007]

i want to believe!! but no

NO!!! don't give up. Believe and you will be rewarded.

 

[Mrbob]

i hear that. I'm not so poor, but I AM too poor for SIX HUNDRED DOLLARSUUU!11

Yeah the price conundrum is a vicous cycle.

I'm not buying a PS3 right now because it is 600 dollars. Because the PS3 is 600 dollars and selling slowly it gives me little incentive to pick one up at the current price. If it were selling better I would feel more inclined to pick one up. But since it isn't and 3rd parties are bailout out left and right, it makes me content to just keep my X360 and very occasional use with the Nintendo Wii. Actually the DS is complementing my X360 right now better than I imagined it would. Forget about all these other combos, DS360 ftw.

 

[Galactic Fork]

at the time of the DS launch, the market wasn't the same. A wario game and mario 64 remake was very good at that time. Mario was (and is) a strong franchise (cf mario remake on gba) and Wario touched showed the capacity of the DS. Resistance, RR7 and crappy gundam game ...
RR7 is really too old franchise with nothing new, Resistance is a FPS and gundam is too bad.

Actually, I think Mario and Wario's sales at the time were more for people needing a game for their new DS. The same was reflected in America. Mario 64 was selling comparable to Zelda for the Wii. And this was less because it was OMG I need that! and it was, wow I have a DS... What game should I get? Oh... Mario 64. All right.
And looking at PS3 sales, the system sales are very disproportional to the content being bought for it. And admittedly, this is complete personal opinion without hard facts, but I do believe at a lower price point, even given the same situation would result in significantly higher sales on brand name/potential alone.

The "low" sells of zelda and wario shows that japanese gamers don't want old things.
The DS really own the market and leads the tastes of the new audience. If the ps3 keep having the same franchise a the ps2 with no realy big improvement in order to create new interrest in gaming, the sells will not grow up even with a price drop. They did not succeed on doing it with the psp.
They must create a new license who shows that the horsepower of ps3 is used to have new experience in gaming.

The PSP is a bad example because of its situation. It had a decent launch and only faltered when the DS engaged rockets, and the PSP philosophy became very evident.

I do agree with the last bit, but that strays from the point of the PS3's launch momentum. And really, any significant gaming creations in the future will still have the high price point to overcome (i've been saying this since the price announcement). I just assumed the launch honeymoon woulda been bigger. Actually, it might also be time based. If Sony had significant shipments to begin with, they might have reached multiple millions... But that's just an idle thought.

If the ps3 was launched when the ps2 was the most popular gaming device in japan, they could have relied on the brand name, but now, all the focus is on nintendo and the DS and nearly no one cares about the strong ps2 who belong to the past.

(that's true only for japan, in europe ans USA the ps2 is still very strong and the price has more to do if the ps3 fails)

I really disagree with this, it's the freaking Playstation. The playstation brand should be enough to carry more than 500k units before running out of steam. The more I think about it, the time aspect mentioned above makes more sense. But anyway, even in the big DS hysteria, the PS2 games were doing decently, and taking out the DS games, the numbers weren't a dramatic departure from previous years.

It just seems like we see different significance in the PS brand.

 

[justchris]

too early to speculate. Conventional wisdom will say that and if Sony gets burned they may pull a Wii for PS4 and make it a turbo PS3 with a "gimmicky controller(tm)" which could mean parity again. This will also kind of make sense since Cell is a long term project for Sony and they would probably want to use it beyond just 1 gaming platform.

But that's one of many hundreds of possible scenarios that could play out. I think Nintendo has a number of problems down the road (aside from strong software support to keep the Wii going) and its basically how to top the Wii. They could be utterly conventional and say 'more is better' which would be ironic considering that's exactly the type of regime they are trying to overthrow, or they could go for even crazier designs.

Wherever they decide to go, they will probably want to consider that breaking backwards compatibility for the GC & Wii in their next system will run the risk of hurting sales. Also, being able to transfer your VC info from Wii to Wii 2 (or whatever) will also be a pretty big deal.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Yeah the price conundrum is a vicous cycle.

I'm not buying a PS3 right now because it is 600 dollars. Because the PS3 is 600 dollars and selling slowly it gives me little incentive to pick one up at the current price. If it were selling better I would feel more inclined to pick one up. But since it isn't and 3rd parties are bailout out left and right, it makes me content to just keep my X360 and very occasional use with the Nintendo Wii. Actually the DS is complementing my X360 right now better than I imagined it would. Forget about all these other combos, DS360 ftw.

My biggest hurdle from getting a PS3 is my crappy TV. I really won't get it till I can get an HD TV... and I have no idea when that'll be. One day though. My TV is dying on me.

 

[Link]

Whoa, whoa.... Mrbob has a DS and a Wii?! Truly, the endtimes are upon us...

 

[PantherLotus]

It's not really. PS2 came in at that price and exploded the market, and it would have done that even if Gamecube came out the same day with its $100 dollar advantage. It's a damn fine price to get in at, particularly if you have good technology in the box. It avoids the "it's cheap" aspect (ya know, the feeling that the device is flimsy and lame - it's a real phenomenon) and it avoids the "it's too expensive" factor in one swing. Factoring in inflation, it's impossible for a system to come in at $300 for eternity. It has to rise eventually, so $399 is not bad at all over time.

Notice the markets are different for everything, though. For handheld gaming $199 and $250 was too expensive as illustrated by PSP. Although I think next handheld generation, that will be just right.

Hey amir0x -- inflation hovers around 2% per year. (or +5 dollars per year for a $250 console). Your point isn't wrong, though.

 

[Eteric Rice]

The next generation will definately be interesting. It's pretty much a given that Microsoft and Sony will try something "new." The question is, what will it be? And, what will Nintendo bring out to combat it?

I'm also trying to figure out what Square-Enix is up to. FFXIII is coming out for the PS3, DragonQuest IX for the DS, and some spin offs for the Wii. It would make sense that the Wii eventually aquired a numbered series. But then again, Square-Enix has recently told PSP owners that they're going to have a lot of surprises (or something) for them, soon. Could these surprises help them combat the DS?

Another thought is will FFXIII drive the PS3's sales like VII did for the PS1? I'm not so sure, especially since Sony doesn't seem to want to drop the price. I honestly don't blame them, as they're still losing money from it, and will likely lose money on it for a long time. But Final Fantasy is a huge franchise, and it will definately push consoles.

Right now, my eyes are on the Wii. I'm wondering if we're going to see some RPGs for it anytime soon. Hell, with the controller, RTS games would work really well on Wii. Patience is a virtue, but I'm just an impatient bastard. :lol

 

[Avalon]

I'm also trying to figure out what Square-Enix is up to. FFXIII is coming out for the PS3, DragonQuest IX for the DS, and some spin offs for the Wii. It would make sense that the Wii eventually aquired a numbered series. But then again, Square-Enix has recently told PSP owners that they're going to have a lot of surprises (or something) for them, soon. Could these surprises help them combat the DS?

Awhile back, SE mentioned that they didn't want any one console to dominate the market, since know you, they make money that way. So I suppose that is there way of keeping it balanced.

 

[fresquito]

I can't believe you're speculating about next gen :lol

 

[D.Lo]

Nintendo knows its target audience, because it has really narrowed that down; and it's pretty much defined by a boy or girl's ability to admire Pokemon.

It was some Sony guy (Harrison?) talking about the DS's audience around the launch of the PSP. Obviously, he was stupid.

Yeah, it was from the 'DS is a gimmick' interview Some lovely gems here:

http://palgn.com.au/article.php?id=2964

 

[Luckyman]

The playable FF13 demo this year will end any doubts.

:lol

 

[ethelred]

Right now, my eyes are on the Wii. I'm wondering if we're going to see some RPGs for it anytime soon.

Fire Emblem in a few weeks, then Dragon Quest Swords not too long after. We should also be seeing Crystal Chronicles 2 and Sword of Legendia in 2007, plus Super Paper Mario is part RPG... all in all, it's a very nice RPG lineup for the system's first year (FE and DQS alone are pretty huge).

I'm sure more stuff will be announced before long, especially if it keeps selling as it is.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Fire Emblem in a few weeks, then Dragon Quest Swords not too long after. We should also be seeing Crystal Chronicles 2 and Sword of Legendia in 2007, plus Super Paper Mario is part RPG... all in all, it's a very nice RPG lineup for the system's first year (FE and DQS alone are pretty huge).

I'm sure more stuff will be announced before long, especially if it keeps selling as it is.

I really think you're overestimating Paper Mario's RPG aspect. It looks completely like a platformer.

 

[justchris]

I can't believe you're speculating about next gen :lol

This gen is passè already. It's just HD vs waggle, no big deal. The next gen is where the real fight's going to be, with HD+waggle on all consoles, we'll see who really deserves to be Kings of the game industry.

 

[ethelred]

I really think you're overestimating Paper Mario's RPG aspect. It looks completely like a platformer.

That's why I mentioned it as an aside and used the word "part."

I dunno about overestimating -- I thought my comments made it pretty clear I was putting the emphasis on Dragon Quest Swords and Fire Emblem. Crystal Chronicles and Sword of Legendia (which may or may not be good) mostly round out the year.

And I cannot say it enough times: DragonQuest swords is going to be huge.

It's a Yuji Horii game, so we know it's going to be huge quality. Looks great in the videos, looks like they're going all out for the development (first time for DQ voice acting in Japan)... and I imagine they're going to pull off quite a marketing blitz for the game, too.

 

[PantherLotus]

I really think you're overestimating Paper Mario's RPG aspect. It looks completely like a platformer.

You're underestimating it's RPG elements.

And I cannot say it enough times: DragonQuest swords is going to be huge.

 

[bigswords]

In Sony's defense though, at least their hardware is quieter and much more reliable then M$ xbox 360 (well so far). To be honest I wouldnt mind paying abit more for reliable hardware imo.

 

[PantherLotus]

In Sony's defense though, at least their hardware is quieter and much more reliable then M$ xbox 360 (well so far). To be honest I wouldnt mind paying abit more for reliable hardware imo.

QUIET HARDWARE, NOW FOR ONLY $599!

Get freaking real d00d.

 

[Error]

In Sony's defense though, at least their hardware is quieter and much more reliable then M$ xbox 360 (well so far). To be honest I wouldnt mind paying abit more for reliable hardware imo.

some people still use that? :/

 

[Odysseus]

In Sony's defense though, at least their hardware is quieter and much more reliable then M$ xbox 360 (well so far). To be honest I wouldnt mind paying abit more for reliable hardware imo.

pay a bit more for the extended warranty

/microsoft customer service

and this is strange, somehow gaf substituted a dollar sign for an s in your post there, must be some kind of glitch... hope the server isn't about to cra$h

edit: oh dear

 

[PantherLotus]

some people still use that? :/

Check his thread posting history. It's almost like he has an agenda.

 

[bigswords]

some people still use that? :/

I bought Lumines live Marketplace is very evil....

 

[bigswords]

Check his thread posting history. It's almost like he has an agenda.

Ohh and that is?

 

[PantherLotus]

Hey its your account sucka. Keep posting little shit like "M$" and see how long you last.

But lets get back to your defense of Sony and how you would consider paying extra for more reliable hardware. That was interesting.

 

[meltpotato]

pay a bit more for the extended warranty

/microsoft customer service

and this is strange, somehow gaf substituted a dollar sign for an s in your post there, must be some kind of glitch... hope the server isn't about to cra$h

edit: oh dear

follow the white rabbit!

 

[bigswords]

Hey its your account sucka. Keep posting little shit like "M$" and see how long you last.

But lets get back to your defense of Sony and how you would consider paying extra for more reliable hardware. That was interesting.

Well, some of the guys did go back with their old xbox 360s and go to a B&M to buy a new one. So the added cost of selling their old broken xbox 360 and buying a new one comes to almost the cost of a core PS3 (which is enough imo, just add your own harddrive).

Although Yes I agree that the MS's extended warranties are great but the fact most of the the time u will be getting a refurbished set anyhow, and that's why we have the same people go to the 3 red lights thread.....

Edit ** dont get me wrong , I love the xbox 360 and the games that I have, but some of should not have bugs at all**

 

[bigswords]

I apologize for the dollar sign remark. Just that I already spent almost close to 750 SGD which is close to 500 USD for my xbox 360, just wished it had less problems like my ds lite.