BrodiemanTTR
Member
By chance does anyone have that chart of 360 vs. Xbox lifetime on hand?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Media Create Sales Jan 22 - 28
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Odysseus will never marry.cvxfreak said:
I actually love and respect my wife. She let me buy a $400 system when we were buying a house, I'll buy her a ~$200 system. I love this hobby too much not be happy to bring someone new into the fold, even if it's not my first choice of system. I have a hard time getting her to play 360 with me because she doesn't like the games I'll play, but I'm damn well going to play Wii with her regardless of what she buys - I'll be gaming with my wife and that trancends any console preference. I've been trying to get her to game with me for the nearly eight years we've been married.
Frankly, while I've never owned a Nintendo system before and can't say I'm a fan (yet), kudos to them for pulling it off.
GhaleonEB said:I still plan to track it down this summer, either a month before or after Mass Effect hits. That thread reminded me that I need to play it to wrap up the 16-bit games.
(Okay, enough of my derailing. I thought I'd mention the Wii "development" because I couldn't find another thread to toss it into. I'm personally not a fan of the concept of that system, but I'm going to try to keep my mind open. Besides, I never did finish Zelda: A Link to the Past, so perhaps that will be on VC, if it's not already, by then. I have fond memories of beating up chickens, and the getting a massive swarm of them decending upon me for revenge.)
ALTTP is already on the VC... and enjoy your Wii. Keep your mind open, because sharing gaming with a non-gaming wife/girlfriend is actually quite a bit more fun than you'd imagine. Especially if her hot friends come too
I'd get the Wii sooner than later, if you can
find
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Amazing how a thread can appear to go right back on track at the start of a new page.
PantherLotus said:
On the contrary, I would say anybody who thinks Wii will suddenly transform anything at this point is the blind one.
My personal feelings are that Wii will succeed, but that I personally don't want it to be dominant because I don't like the mini-game craze. As far as Japan, I'm not very good at predicting how things go there. My feelings on the gaming trends in Japan is heavily geared toward how it used to 10 years ago when I live there, so you're right in saying I'm blind on Japan.
One thing I do know about Japan though is that they adopt new technologies much, much faster than the US. That's why I don't feel the Wii will sell PS2 numbers. Number one, Wii doesn't have any dominant games aside from Zelda out yet. It isn't riding the wave of success from the GC as the PS2 was with the PS. It doesn't have any extra value that the PS2 had (the DVD player at an affordable price). Even if the Wii is going to do PS2 numbers, I don't see it happening until at least 2008, with this year being a slow buildup, as games come out and perhaps price goes down. Another factor with the Wii is that it faces much stiffer competition that will spread out the gaming dollar here (in Japan, it's alot more uncontested as the PS2 was here until Xbox started doing better). The Xbox 360 is more viable and seen more favorably than the original was, and the PS3 is hurt by it's price but it's still the successor of the PS2. Finally, Americans also tend to buy more at the budget price. Early on the PSone would still outsell the Xbox and GC on a monthly basis, and we see the PS2 still leading the market.
So that's my reasoning for my belief. Call me blind if you will.
Ok, so to look at this matter-of-fact, 360 will probably always lead in NA, but won't be making a very big splash in Japan, which is no surprise. PS3 vs Wii is looking almost as bad as the PSP vs DS war, but at least they have the majority on HD gaming. It really all comes down to how big March is for PS3 and whether or not they can win Europe. If they don't, it's bomba bomba. If they do, we've got ourselves a three-front war. I can't wait.
Link said:
And the Xbox was my favorite console last gen, as was Halo. But that doesn't mean I go around predicting the Xbox 360 will sell 100 million and that Halo will replace Mario as the dominant videogame icon.
Look, everyone has a preference. I could say that the fact you have the username Link shows an agenda, and any attack on my views are thus baseless. I'm not saying I'm right here, nor am I an analyst. What I'm saying is, based on what I've seen in the game industry and other industries in the US would lead me to believe thats whats going to happen to the Wii this year.
I have no issues with my prediction being attacked, but I would like to see reasoning instead being called blind.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I don't think Wii 2007 US will equal PS2 2001 US either, but similar reasoning was used to predict Wii would be easily available in stores on day one.909er said:
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
909er said:
(1) One might point out that it isn't the Wii that is doing the transforming, but rather the audience which has already transformed. A true market analyst will recognize this.
(2) Wants and Realities are two very different things my friend. You can not-want the Wii to succeed all day but that isn't going to change shit. And we both know that this isn't just about mini-games, it's about making games more accessible at a mass-market price.
(3) Then you start talking about irrelevant bullshit again. You're still talking about DVD players? Are you serious? And then you go off on how the PS2 was uncontested? You're blind and you have an agenda.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Stealth said:Ok, so to look at this matter-of-fact, 360 will probably always lead in NA, but won't be making a very big splash in Japan, which is no surprise. PS3 vs Wii is looking almost as bad as the PSP vs DS war, but at least they have the majority on HD gaming. It really all comes down to how big March is for PS3 and whether or not they can win Europe. If they don't, it's bomba bomba. If they do, we've got ourselves a three-front war. I can't wait.
Why do you think the 360 will probably always lead NA?
JoshuaJSlone said:
I also recall alot of ppl on these forums predicting December US sales of the Wii being around 1.2 to 1.5 million.
Predictions aren't right most of the time, but it's not gonna stop people from making them. You give a 100 ppl the same data I used to come up with my prediction, and there will be a 100 different predictions. But I don't like being called blind just because I don't conform to the viewpoint that Wii will kick all ass and change the world.
Rancid Mildew
Banned
909er said:
That's not why people are calling you blind... if they have called you blind at all.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Fair enough.909er said:
You bring up the point that the Wii won't sell as well as the 360 or PS3 in the US, but then you go on to say that Americans tend to buy more at the budget price. Isn't that one of the Wii's biggest advantages? I personally think MS and Sony are not only pricing themselves out of mass market appeal, but they're also limiting their audience to people who are on the cutting edge of technology. Not only is the Wii practically already budget priced by comparison, it aims directly at the market that buys consoles once they drop in price as well (i.e., the more casual gamer).
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
909er said:
I'm calling you blind because you're using ridiculous comparisons about the success of the PS2 (which you seem to championing for some reason), including the dvd-inclusion which was irrelevant then and is irrelevant now. You're also talking about less or more competition, the prevalence of brandnames, and other things which have little bearing on the current market.
Not once have you mentioned price, except a sly comment trying to compare how close the Wii and the 360 are priced, when we both know they're not even selling to the same ****ing people.
ethelred said:Wouldn't kill you to try it.
I grew up every bit the Sega fan you were, and one of the reasons I like it is because it brings back a lot of the style I felt the Dreamcast had. And the VC is shaping up really nicely.
I wasn't around for Sega's last console (so I could totally be wrong on this), but I suspect the Wii was very much influenced by the Dreamcast. As you said, the style is similiar. Don't both controllers hold memory? Both consoles have a web browser (so does the PSP and PS3, but it is odd that a Nintendo console would embrace it).
Dreamcast was also supposed to have a 'Virtual Console' with Sega's past games and those of TG16's:
Sega Base said:
Perhaps some of the Gamecube titles with past NES/SNES/N64 games (like Animal Crossing, Zelda Compilation, etc.) were 'emulator' practice? Interesting how Sega and TG16's games joined with Nintendo's for the Virtual Console and not, say, the PS3 or Xbox 360.
Sega Base said:
Miyamoto is hard to impress. If he was impressed with Dreamcast, then is it out of line to say the Wii could be, figuratively speaking, some 'love child' of the Gamecube and Dreamcast? That's certainly overstating it, but Nintendo certainly loved the Dreamcast:
Sega Base said:
MasterMFauli
Banned
AniHawk said:
Oh, come on, now you´re being mean.
Killing off all hopes by bringing up facts... :-/
Link said:
Again, I did not say Wii will sell less than any console, other than the PS2's early numbers. I said that the existance of viable competition in a closed market like the gaming market, tends to spread out the dollars, and hence Wii won't sell as much as it would should the PS3 or 360 not exist.
My other point is that you cant compare things relatively. The Wii is $250, and this has been shown to be above the general mass market price for games. More importantly, it's games AREN'T budget priced. If I were to buy a Blu-ray player for $200, that would be steal. But say the average Blu ray movie costs $40, and suddenly it's not that good of a deal, because I'm still getting less entertainment from the money I spend than I could otherwise. The people that buy systems for price, I would argue, take into account the fact that they could also buy 10 PS2 games used for the price of a new Wii game.
PantherLotus said:
Lower price, Halo frenzy, and a year's head-start. Plus the major titles are going to both systems this year (VF5, Assassin's Creed, GTA4). PS3 has the 1st-party titles and 3rd-party exclusives to draw the hardcore crowd in as well, but the time it lost in establishing itself will come to haunt it sooner or later if it can't make up that ground quickly.
PantherLotus said:
I'm not gonna try to argue my points with you after this since it seems you're starting to take it personally.
Here's a simple reason why I think you're wrong.
1)DVD was a big part of the early success of the PS2. You cant you ignore it's effect on making PS2 so main stream. But you know what, if you believe otherwise, WHY? I'm trying to debate here, not insult you, so come on, give me a reason why you think the early success of the PS2 had little to do with the DVD?
2) As far as the other factors go, the existence of competition as well the strength of the competition is a very important part of looking at the success of an item. The existence of competition means you have more options, and the strength of the competition influences consumers because of visibility (and when comes down to it, it's "coolness factor") and availability of software.
As far as prevalance of brand names, it's what keeps the industry alive. Would any of the system sell if not for the existence of strong franchises? Would Nintendo be successful if they didn't have Mario, Zelda, Metroid and any number of franchises? It's the same with systems. Sony's Playstation became synonimous with gaming, just as Nintendo was before. Right now, the strength of brands are such that in America, all 3 are viable and none are truly overwhelming in the next-gen race. Each has a stable of franchises that are tied to their brand.
I'd say that your disagreement comes from your belief that what I'm arguing is irrelevant to the whole, whereas I believe what I'm arguing makes up small parts but in the end are a big chunk of the whole.
Pureauthor
Member
Lapsed, concerning your 'Nintendo aims to sell to everyone' argument, doesn't seem a bit suspect when Nintendo itself appears completely unprepared for the massive DS success in the first place? They can't produce enough DSLs, they can't keep up on cart production, causing games to have wonky print runs, they even had a plastic game case shortage at one point.
I mean, what they say doesn't seem to match up with what they planned for.
I mean, what they say doesn't seem to match up with what they planned for.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
Stormbringer said:
Satoru Iwata is the genre of person that I appreciate. There is somebody here who knows him personally ?
jesusraz
Member
For those that just like numbers instead of graphical representations:
Hardware - This Week | Last Week | Total 2007 Sales | Lifetime Sales
1.) Nintendo DS Lite - 194,526 | 127,647 | 756,338 | 8,179,662
2.) Wii - 83,754 | 86,395 | 459,188 | 1,378,831
3.) PlayStation Portable - 35,700 | 37,032 | 239,722 | 4,771,851
4.) PlayStation 2 - 20,995 | 20,169 | 115,864 | 20,270,723
5.) PlayStation 3 - 19,996 | 21,105 | 136,576 | 594,134
6.) Xbox 360 - 7,365 | 7,041 | 41,676 | 306,378
7.) Game Boy micro - 1,177 | 1,864 | 8,311 | 568,241
8.) Game Boy Advance SP - 1,023 | 1,498 | 6,432 | 5,921,472
9.) GameCube - 347 | 554 | 2,770 | 4,172,238
10.) Nintendo DS - 82 | 123 | 321 | 6,582,676
11.) Game Boy Advance - 34 | 94 | 264 | 8,823,373
Hardware - This Week | Last Week | Total 2007 Sales | Lifetime Sales
1.) Nintendo DS Lite - 194,526 | 127,647 | 756,338 | 8,179,662
2.) Wii - 83,754 | 86,395 | 459,188 | 1,378,831
3.) PlayStation Portable - 35,700 | 37,032 | 239,722 | 4,771,851
4.) PlayStation 2 - 20,995 | 20,169 | 115,864 | 20,270,723
5.) PlayStation 3 - 19,996 | 21,105 | 136,576 | 594,134
6.) Xbox 360 - 7,365 | 7,041 | 41,676 | 306,378
7.) Game Boy micro - 1,177 | 1,864 | 8,311 | 568,241
8.) Game Boy Advance SP - 1,023 | 1,498 | 6,432 | 5,921,472
9.) GameCube - 347 | 554 | 2,770 | 4,172,238
10.) Nintendo DS - 82 | 123 | 321 | 6,582,676
11.) Game Boy Advance - 34 | 94 | 264 | 8,823,373
DefectiveReject
Banned
These MC threads the last few weeks have been the breeding ground for soooo much reatrdism, even i'm shocked.
I wonder what must be going on over at Sony HQ? Although their PR is rather bullish in its context, they must be worried, as the launch period really needs to be one of the strongest periods in a consoles cycle. And what with PS2 sales dwindling, PSP sales plodding along and PS3 sales not yet taking off, they surely must be asking if "Maybe, just Maybe we've gotten this one wrong"jesusraz said:For those that just like numbers instead of graphical representations:
Hardware - This Week | Last Week | Total 2007 Sales | Lifetime Sales
1.) Nintendo DS Lite - 194,526 | 127,647 | 756,338 | 8,179,662
2.) Wii - 83,754 | 86,395 | 459,188 | 1,378,831
3.) PlayStation Portable - 35,700 | 37,032 | 239,722 | 4,771,851
4.) PlayStation 2 - 20,995 | 20,169 | 115,864 | 20,270,723
5.) PlayStation 3 - 19,996 | 21,105 | 136,576 | 594,134
6.) Xbox 360 - 7,365 | 7,041 | 41,676 | 306,378
7.) Game Boy micro - 1,177 | 1,864 | 8,311 | 568,241
8.) Game Boy Advance SP - 1,023 | 1,498 | 6,432 | 5,921,472
9.) GameCube - 347 | 554 | 2,770 | 4,172,238
10.) Nintendo DS - 82 | 123 | 321 | 6,582,676
11.) Game Boy Advance - 34 | 94 | 264 | 8,823,373
I don't think they're worrying as much as they're scrambling. Shit's falling apart fast.
In Japan, you have Nintendo replacing them as the dominant hardware manufacturer, in Europe, you have a strengthening Xbox brand and strong Wii demand, and in NA, there's what you see in Europe, and the 360 has its highest lead there, with a bunch of franchises that appeal to the hardcore.
I think Sony's best hope now is to get as much support as possible and pray that Blu-Ray takes off like DVDs did.
In Japan, you have Nintendo replacing them as the dominant hardware manufacturer, in Europe, you have a strengthening Xbox brand and strong Wii demand, and in NA, there's what you see in Europe, and the 360 has its highest lead there, with a bunch of franchises that appeal to the hardcore.
I think Sony's best hope now is to get as much support as possible and pray that Blu-Ray takes off like DVDs did.
DefectiveReject
Banned
I wonder if Kutargi has his ceremonial kamikaze death sword ready, in case this shit doesn't sticking back together fastAniHawk said:
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
It looks so damn bad for PS3 when 360 still has more than half the PS3 base.jesusraz said:For those that just like numbers instead of graphical representations:
Hardware - This Week | Last Week | Total 2007 Sales | Lifetime Sales
1.) Nintendo DS Lite - 194,526 | 127,647 | 756,338 | 8,179,662
2.) Wii - 83,754 | 86,395 | 459,188 | 1,378,831
3.) PlayStation Portable - 35,700 | 37,032 | 239,722 | 4,771,851
4.) PlayStation 2 - 20,995 | 20,169 | 115,864 | 20,270,723
5.) PlayStation 3 - 19,996 | 21,105 | 136,576 | 594,134
6.) Xbox 360 - 7,365 | 7,041 | 41,676 | 306,378
7.) Game Boy micro - 1,177 | 1,864 | 8,311 | 568,241
8.) Game Boy Advance SP - 1,023 | 1,498 | 6,432 | 5,921,472
9.) GameCube - 347 | 554 | 2,770 | 4,172,238
10.) Nintendo DS - 82 | 123 | 321 | 6,582,676
11.) Game Boy Advance - 34 | 94 | 264 | 8,823,373
PSP and X360 are up from last year, we'll how they go next weeks, I suppose 360 will go down because it just blow off its charge of titles (Blue, Lost, Gears, Idol). I also suppose PSP will go up when ToD2 and the week after that MHP2 are released.
Nothing too interesting this week (release-wise), maybe just another Harvest Moon DS.
Magicpaint
Member
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
Hey! Another Harvest Moon is interesting!
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
Sure, but isn't it like the 4th one DS gets? I meant it isn't as interesting as prior weeks (hack, shining force...gta, wish room)Magicpaint said:
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
AniHawk said:
Yeah, and there is another factor that has changed in last 1-2 years: Sony is profitable in the electronic's business again and a lot more then the Playstation's section.
So, their objective at this point is really to impose the Blu-Ray as Standard, and to do that they have to sell a lot of PS3. What I mean, is that the fact that Sony was supposed to be the leader is passed in a secondary position due to others factors.
They have to sell more Blu-Ray then HD-DVD, not do better then the Wii. Of course the machine isn't doing well in Japan, but I think that they really think that this is a battle in the long term.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
Some comments from sinobi about this week releases...
· Harvest Moon DS sells around 50k in its first day of a 100k shipment. Better start than Rune Factory, sinobi says it aims at 200k total.
And I think thats it...I think he also mentions Ryuusei no Rockman having large price drops and some comments about Gundam Musou bundle. I think Mekaiuji no Meikyuu will get a new shipment on the 7th.
· Harvest Moon DS sells around 50k in its first day of a 100k shipment. Better start than Rune Factory, sinobi says it aims at 200k total.
And I think thats it...I think he also mentions Ryuusei no Rockman having large price drops and some comments about Gundam Musou bundle. I think Mekaiuji no Meikyuu will get a new shipment on the 7th.
AniHawk said:
I don't even think they're doing that. I'm sure members of the organization must realize whats going on right now, but the top level executives must still be supremely confident of the machine and we really don't know the final score yet so their confidence may be well founded.
I mentioned strategic inertia a while back, basically the PS3's launch position and its market positioning has already been predetermined. Changing it from now on would be very difficult. A good analogy would be to describe a ball bearing that's barreling down a track. There's too much inertia to change things substantially once you've plotted a strategy for a console, and launch it.
Magicpaint
Member
Kurosaki Ichigo said:Sure, but isn't it like the 4th one DS gets? I meant it isn't as interesting as prior weeks (hack, shining force...gta, wish room)
This Harvest Moon does look sweet though. Love the visuals.
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
Hmmm good on Harvest Moon, hopefully it does reach 200K which would make it the best selling one so far on the DS.
Ouch about Ryuusei no Rockman, that three version thing was just retarded.
Good to see Etrina is getting new shipment soon, ducky should get off bitter mode pretty soon.
909er said:
But...isn't the entire point of the Wii market expansion? I mean, look at the numbers. Wii Sports is outselling Legend of Zelda, and in fact, every 'real' game by a factor of ~3:1 in Japan. And all the frenzy over the Wii in the US, it doesn't appear to be about Zelda. People aren't standing in line every week or so to get Zelda, they're standing in line to get Wii Sports. That's the game that gets all the press. If you didn't visit gaming forums, I suspect you wouldn't even know there was a Zelda game for the Wii. Most of the people I work with didn't know it until I told them (one of the girls at work is a Zelda fanatic, when she told me her husband wanted to get a Wii, I mentioned that was great, cause the new Zelda was out for the Wii).
So, if the gaming market is a closed market as you say, wouldn't that be of more detriment to Sony and Microsoft, who are only trying to target gamers, rather than Nintendo whose stated goal is to target both gamers and non-gamers?
909er said:
I contend that yes, they would, in fact, sell without the existence of strong franchises. These franchises haven't always existed, they have to come from somewhere. And if you've been paying attention, the DS was doing fine without any of the major Nintendo franchises on it. Sure, it had Mario 64 DS and Kirby Canvas Curse, but the real explosion in sales didn't happen until Nintendogs and Brain Training hit. All the major franchises didn't show up until after that. So the DS would have not only been fine without the strong Nintendo franchises, it would probably still be trending ahead of the GBA right now, even if it had nothing but original IP on it, as long as the games were still of the same quality.
And the belief that brand names are what keeps the industry alive is bordering on ludicrous. Brands and franchises are a staple of the industry, but the industry doesn't die without them. Where did Halo come from? One of the best selling games of last generation, and it was a new IP. What about Gears of War, what proceeded it, how did it's brand get so strong for it to go multiplatinum in only 2 months? How about Super Mario Bros. on the NES? How did it manage to survive without drawing more on the existing, and popular, Donkey Kong brand? What made Dragon Quest the basis for every JRPG from the time it came out?
None of these brands, when they were first released, were known. And they have become huge, major franchises. All a brand does is get you a free pass in the door. You still have to do your spiel and sell yourself, or you're not getting anywhere.
The Sony Playstation brand has already used it's free pass to get into the market with over ~1 million units, but they've still yet to actually sale themselves. Brand alone is not enough to convince people to buy (well, not en masse anyway, I refuse to try to vouch for individual decisions).
DeaconKnowledge
Member
**Clutches his VF rosary**
It's coming, it's coming...then they'll all see....
It's coming, it's coming...then they'll all see....
1. The point that they want to expand the market doesn't mean that they'll succeed. They've massively failed twice already, rememberPureauthor said:
2. Nintendo in general and Iwata in particular are extremely prudent, to a fault, this means that by default they'll consider that they're going to fail rather that consider they're going to win their bets. Which is why they took the stance of making a profit on everything and not selling the console as a (potentially huge) loss-leader or a wedge: if they fail, the loss leader becomes a pure loss, which they don't want to have to face.
This means that even though their ultimate goal is to expand the market beyond what it currently is, they'll prepare for failure rather than success, which translates into 11 months (to date) of straight DS Lite shortages.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Masklinn said:
failed twice?
N64 and GameCube weren't attempts to expand the market.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Edit NVM
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
DeaconKnowledge said:
See what?
I find myself surprised every week by the PS3 sales. Riding off the wave of success that is the PS2, it's pretty hard to believe that the PS3 could be bombing like it is in Japan. Anecdotal reports from the States say that it isn't faring all that well over here either. If you're Sony, what do you do here? Drop the price? I think that's about all you can do now. You can't magically make good software just appear, so the only factor you can control is the price of the system. They would be wise to drop the 20 gig unit to the same price as the 360 premium, and lower the 60 gig price to 500 and try to market it seperately. Maybe include some sort of media player type software or productivity software,
Save this quote for later (in case I need to eat crow), but I'm going to guess the Wii is the worldwide leader by the end of this year.
Save this quote for later (in case I need to eat crow), but I'm going to guess the Wii is the worldwide leader by the end of this year.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
BrodiemanTTR said:
up-to-date
