Why bother drawing the PS2 parallel in hardware if the software is nowhere close? If the point of hardware is to sell software, then it seems to be setting up an unwarranted comparison in software to say it sold as well as PS2 in hardware. *shrugs* It's an old point.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Media Create Sales: Week 12, 2013 (Mar 18 - Mar 24)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Why bother drawing the PS2 parallel in hardware if the software is nowhere close? If the point of hardware is to sell software, then it seems to be setting up an unwarranted comparison in software to say it sold as well as PS2 in hardware. *shrugs* It's an old point.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
To show to the degree at which the handheld market had grown.
edit: It would have been better if I compared to the GBA/WonderSwan generation wouldn't it?
Wazzat?
Not out of the ordinary? For Vita?
... OOOoooh! Are people predicting the entire month of April? I thought they were predicting the next week numbers. Now it makes sense (I was so hopeful).
airmangataosenai
Member
Personally, I think the people predicting sub-70k for Vita this month are much crazier. The fact that they're expecting sub-18k average for the month with this week probably being 25-30k says that they expect it to go back to near 10k sales almost immediately.
I'm probably just being too picky. As long as the context is understood for the software difference, there's nothing wrong with comparing just the hardware numbers.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14846883&postcount=200
For reference, that's a comparison I did on GBA vs. PSP software for the first four years of each system. GBA only really had four years, since the DS came out about then. You can see the difference in software with GBA having probably like 30% higher hardware through that time period. PSP has now passed up GBA in hardware and total software, but in twice the time on the market.
Yeah, I think I'm with you and Sammy. Especially post-price-drop, I see the thing slowly declining until it steadies at just sub-20k.
metalslimer
Member
Vita literally does not have another software release until the 18th and Golden Week is not in the predictions. Having 18k a week is a lot more plausible than 30k with no big releases this month. Even the Wii with its multimillion sellers crashed when there was no releases to prop it up.
BishopLamont
Banned
Really? Try reading it again.
OK, fair enough, cheers.
Let's recap what you said. Nintendo should use the same strategy with Wii U as with GC and sell it at cost.
I don't think the GC was sold at cost and I said why: The price dumping of a console already competively priced with an inferior but aggressively priced rival. I asked you for a source for your assumption that it made small losses only after the price cut, which I'm doubting. You didn't give a source.
And the fact that sales declined massively to the point where they had to halt production. The model you argue worked for GC relies on heaving steady sales, otherwise there will be no neutral average. If the console sells well on a low price but sales go down as they can lower production cost, the later phase that needs to bring in what was lost before will be too weak to actually accomplish that goal.
My problem is that you make it sound like the plan to sell the GC at cost was a success. It's hard to believe given the unsuccessful price dumping, screwing that strategy twofold.
The GC was an utter failure in a whole host of regards - the one place where it didn't fail was in crippling Nintendo's bottom line. They kept the pricing in check with respect to the costs so that they didn't take a bath on a failed system. I can't source the exact amounts that they were losing per unit after the price drop because as far as I know, they never specified the exact figures in public. But a quick check of their financials says a lot by itself. They earned lots of money in profits (hundreds of millions) every single year the Cube was on the market. And during the FY ending Mar/04, the year of the drop to $99, their operating income was almost identical to what it was the previous year, despite the price cut (and 5M Cubes sold that FY after the price cut, not to mention whatever units were still in the retail channel that Nintendo had to credit the retailers back for the price cut). If they were taking a huge hit on each unit sold, it would have had a noticeable effect on their bottom line. A small hit on each unit sold could be absorbed by increased performance in other areas.
Nintendo could have let the Gamecube soak them dry if they really wanted to move units. Slash the price to $29, sell a fucking gazillion units of the thing at Christmas, and burn through their cash reserves like nobody's business. But instead they kept the price as low as they could without racking up sizable losses on the hardware, and they actually made some money off the failed system from their software. That was the one successful thing (along with making some damn fine games) that they actually did accomplish with the purple guy.
michaelius
Banned
But was it GC making money or just not being drain big enough to have noticeable impact on profits from GBA ?
Again, there's no way to say with 100% certainty, but checking the financials paints a pretty clear picture.
Nintendo made as much money during the GC years as Sony made with the phenomenal hardware and software sales that the PS2 was posting year after year. And they did so with the Gamecube selling well below the PS2 price for that entire span.
Nintendo had the GBA which was the pillar of the company at the time - and the GBA sold very well, but the GBA was selling at $99, and then cut to $79. Take out the retailer cut, plus packaging and shipping, etc - there's just no room for much profit on the hardware at that pricepoint. Which leaves software, but the GBA was a handheld with a tie ratio that was WAY smaller than the PS2. Handhelds just don't sell anywhere near the software that home consoles do - and especially not the PS2. There's just no way that the GBA matched Sony's profits from all of Sony's 1st-party software (which was significant on the PS2), plus the mountains and mountains of 3rd-party license fees that Sony was also raking in (plus all the extra accessory sales on the humungous PS2 install base - and those accessory sales are pure profit streams).
The Gamecube had to be contributing a positive value to the bottom line for Nintendo to go toe to toe with Sony throughout the generation in profitability.
michaelius
Banned
Comparision to Sony is what makes me wonder - Sony was selling PS2 at higher prices than GC, PS2 was a bit slower so production costs should have been similar.
But gamecube has pretty insane software attachment ratios for first party stuff ? So maybe the hit on hardware was significant but first party software recovered most of costs ?
But gamecube has pretty insane software attachment ratios for first party stuff ? So maybe the hit on hardware was significant but first party software recovered most of costs ?
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
why the increase in Vita sales?
New games that have been released or is it completely empty till may?
Of course, is there any doubt GC was overall in teh black?
michaelius
Banned
Muramasa is smaller then One Piece and i think holidays ended.
Everything should be lower this week.
I think only Oboro Muramasa was released this week. I don't think it will have any significant effect on hardware.
michaelius
Banned
There was 1 more but it will be lucky to chart in top 30 at 5k 
Damn it, stupid holidays i never get them right!!!
BlackLagoon
Member
Sei Madou Mongatari? It's tied into an existing franchise, in a genre that has an audience in Japan (roguelike/mystery dungeon), and is from a developer with a successful franchise behind them (Class of Heroes). Not saying it'll sell 100k+ or anything, but at the very least, it should sell better than that.There was 1 more but it will be lucky to chart in top 30 at 5k
electroplankton
Banned
Actually, Sony developed many successful games on PS2: Gran Turismo, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Singstar, EyeToy, God of War.
Takamura-San
Member
Vita: 100k
SS: 150k
OPV: 300k
SS: 150k
OPV: 300k
michaelius
Banned
These are SCE's >500k titles for the Playstation 1, in the Top70 lifetime sales for the platform:
>2million
Gran Turismo
>1million
Minna no Golf
Gran Turismo 2
>900k
Minna no Golf 2
Parapa Rapper
Crash Bandicoot 3
>800k
Crash Bandicoot 2
XI[sai]
Arc the Lad II
Dokodemo Issyo
>700k
IQ~Intelligent Cube
>600k
Crash Bandicoot
>2million
Gran Turismo
>1million
Minna no Golf
Gran Turismo 2
>900k
Minna no Golf 2
Parapa Rapper
Crash Bandicoot 3
>800k
Crash Bandicoot 2
XI[sai]
Arc the Lad II
Dokodemo Issyo
>700k
IQ~Intelligent Cube
>600k
Crash Bandicoot
Don't you do this crap every week? Let me find the ignore button.
I'm guessing 35K Wii U, 25K Vita but could be way out!
Does anyone have an explanation as to how Arc and Crash declined in sales so rapidly after their hey days ?
Crash- different developer, ND being the reason why the games were so amazing and thus why they sold so well.
And finally, let's look at SCE's >500k performance on the PS3:
Gran Turismo 5 (600k)
If we count the budget release of Minna no Golf 5, it would also count, but for the previous lists I just posted budget releases weren't added. I'll add it anyway to make it look better.
So basically...
Sony in PS1 = 12 titles over 500k, 3 titles over a million, half dozen different IPs in that mix.
Sony in PS2 = 7 titles over 500k, 3 titles over a million, 3 different IPs in that mix.
Sony in PS3 = 2 titles over 500k, no million sellers, 2 different IPs worth >500k.
Decline, decline, decline, decline.
Gran Turismo 5 (600k)
If we count the budget release of Minna no Golf 5, it would also count, but for the previous lists I just posted budget releases weren't added. I'll add it anyway to make it look better.
So basically...
Sony in PS1 = 12 titles over 500k, 3 titles over a million, half dozen different IPs in that mix.
Sony in PS2 = 7 titles over 500k, 3 titles over a million, 3 different IPs in that mix.
Sony in PS3 = 2 titles over 500k, no million sellers, 2 different IPs worth >500k.
Decline, decline, decline, decline.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
SCE as a Japanese developer is dead. Hopefully their refocussing will see them get back to business on PS4.
It's either that or they buy a couple of developers to bolster their exclusive first party output.
It's either that or they buy a couple of developers to bolster their exclusive first party output.
http://www.famitsu.com/biz/ranking/
Some different hardware numbers already. Wonder if bogus tests numbers or real numbers already -- a mess up from updating the new format.
Anyway, not confirmed
3DS: 67,007
Vita: 33,605
Wii U: 21,502
PS3: 19,809
PSP: 13,569
Wii: 1,743
360: 533
Some different hardware numbers already. Wonder if bogus tests numbers or real numbers already -- a mess up from updating the new format.
Anyway, not confirmed
3DS: 67,007
Vita: 33,605
Wii U: 21,502
PS3: 19,809
PSP: 13,569
Wii: 1,743
360: 533
I think it might be a case of really good marketing, IIRC Sony put a considerable amount of effort behind the marketing of Crash in Japan.
Fuck, that Wii U is low if the figures are accurate. And bravo Vita!
There was a turnaround for Nintendo, they went from Super Mario Bros in 1985 (6.8M) to Super Mario Sunshine in 2002 (0.8M) and bounced back to historic highs with New Super Mario Bros. There must be a way for Sony to make their franchises appealing again.
Then it's a shame. I don't like the idea that you can throw away quality from the window and sabotage a franchise for the heck of it.
michaelius
Banned
Looks pretty realistic.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Crash is one of the few western games to have had a success story in Japan. Even COD and GTA didn't reach those numbers there. I'm not sure it's because of ND either, Jak and Uncharted never reached anywhere close to Crash's numbers.
And some people say SCEJ is not garbage. Hah. Out of curiosity, what is the number for HSG5 with all of its re-releases now? And what is the number for Demon's Souls + its re-releases.
Well the good news is, out of the Top10 titles for Vita, four of them are SCE titles!!!
Loooooool.