Support NeoGAF

[silva1991]

How would they deserve it, when it seems like they set out to make a good game
Simply because it's not on y'all platform of choice? Because they set out to target a different audience for once when they made their fanbase happy for years.

Some people want it to fail for the known reasons and if it does, we know who is gonna "lul" in the bomb thread.

I'm confident it will be a success tho "fingers crossed".

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Right, so people are jumping to conclusions and building entire narratives around that.

As long as they are ready to eat crow when it gets announced, it's all fine I suppose.

I just want the game to be successful worldwide for the salt because some ppl are taking the no Nintendo platform thing alil too much to heart

Some people want it to fail for the known reasons and if it does, we know who is gonna "lul" in the bomb thread.

I'm confident it will be a success tho "fingers crossed".

The same ones that derailed every world thread yes. As a newcomer to the series it looks fun and I'm glad I get the chance to play it. Hopefully I like it and hopefully it can do well. Out of all the capcom titles released this gen mhw looks like it was genuine effort put in to expand to new ppl like me. Hopefully it works out

 

[James Scott]

Let's remember.



Resident Evil 7: Gold Edition will help to get the title a bit closer to their goal since it is released on December and they can ship a decent amount for Holidays but there is no way it will perform as good as Resident Evil 5: Gold Edition. I wouldn't expect more than 1.5 million units (200,000 so far) being optimistic.

And as for Marvel Vs. Capcom: Infinite...

Where is RE7 at?
MvCI will likely eventually get to 1M, though 2M doesn’t seem too likely unless there are massive revamps.

Wonder how the budget for these two were. MVC:I looks super cheap, but I imagine the Marvel license being pretty expensive.
RE7 looks cheaper than RE6, but I’m not sure if the next gen budgets and creating a new engine might of bloated some costs

I imagine World will be the best selling of the bunch, but I’m not sure MH has what it takes to have mass appeal while still being MH.
People seem to be hyping it up, but I don’t think MH has ever played very well.
Despite losing a bit chunk of its appeal, marketing has gone well and if reviews are positive it’ll likely reach 2-3M or so

 

[jman2050]

Right, so people are jumping to conclusions and building entire narratives around that.

As long as they are ready to eat crow when it gets announced, it's all fine I suppose.

You think peopke won’t be happy and satisfied if Capcom makes an intelligent decision for once?

 

[fortunato]

Actually it's the opposite. The audience that didn't played MHW before thought it looked great and most people that are familiar with the franchise were skeptical but with each new info and footage everyone seems excited about it know. You can check the recent threads for yourself to see the reception.

We had a whole discussion about it last week but MHW is not going to flop in the West. I don't get the logic. Do people think the 3DS was some monster device for selling third party games in the West. Hint: It wasn't.

Given that, at this point MH and RE are like Capcom's only relevant franchises, it's interesting to me that they are doing everything in their power to piss off the fanbase.

MHW will not bomb in the West. That's not even up to debate. But it's not enough for this game to not bomb. It must be able to attract a sizeable audience on top of the audience that was traditionally buying MH on 3DS (around 1m gamers). The main reason of MHW existing is to expand the franchise popularity in Western markets. If it sells, say 1.5-1.6m outside Japan, do you think investors will be happy? All of this by forgoing a couple of million fans in the domestic market, with a much bigger investment? MHW looks really good... for a traditional entry in the franchise. This will please fans in North America and Europe, and might attract a few people that never tried the franchise. The issues is, will MHW be able to attract a lot more people? That's a harder question. Graphically it's not a showcase, and the gameplay might still be a bit stiff for the general public.

What has MvCI bombing to do with Switch anyway? People seriously think that if there was a Switch version it would have sold better?

Of course it wasn't about the platform choice. Point is, investors don't typically care. They see a huge ROI from Ultra Street Fighter II on Switch, they see Switch selling like hotcakes, and then they see Marvel vs. Capcom missing its target by a huge margin. They will ask "Where are Switch games?".

 

[Man God]

Pretty much in the extremely unlikely chance of a bomba they won't change the name of world but develop a new game call it 5 and treat world like an ill advised spin off.

It may be based on world but it wom't actually be world. Sorta like tri and portable third.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of, Portable third again.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

How would they deserve it, when it seems like they set out to make a good game
Simply because it's not on y'all platform of choice? Because they set out to target a different audience for once when they made their fanbase happy for years.

You can't say they made their fan base happy when a huge portion play on Nintendo hardware.

 

[frankie_baby]

Where is RE7 at?
MvCI will likely eventually get to 1M, though 2M doesn’t seem too likely unless there are massive revamps.

Wonder how the budget for these two were. MVC:I looks super cheap, but I imagine the Marvel license being pretty expensive.
RE7 looks cheaper than RE6, but I’m not sure if the next gen budgets and creating a new engine might of bloated some costs

The only way mvci gets anywhere close to 1 million is with a ridiculous overshipment

 

[Gotdatmoney]

The Switch versions isn't going to sell anywhere close to what it would take to make it the best selling DQ.

On that note remember when that dude predicted 5 million copies sold!? Lol

Monster Hunter World could easily double MH4U's western sales and end up a disappointment. That's the issue.

I dunno. If the total sales are around 4m I doubt Capcom sees it as a disappointment. If they can grow the western base to 2.5-3m users with a good DLC model I think it's a win.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

I think Capcom has failed this generation.

I'm very curious to see how Monster Hunter World's performs. I can't imagine it will meet their expectations.

 

[jman2050]

I dunno. If the total sales are around 4m I doubt Capcom sees it as a disappointment. If they can grow the western base to 2.5-3m users with a good DLC model I think it's a win.

What makes you think they’ll get anywhere close to 2.5-3m?

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

You can't say they made their fan base happy when a huge portion play on Nintendo hardware.

I said they made them happy for years.

So like I said the whole negative stigma ppl got on going on with the title simply stems from it not being on a Nintendo platform after many years

 

[Jawbreaker]

Where is RE7 at?
MvCI will likely eventually get to 1M, though 2M doesn't seem too likely unless there are massive revamps.

Wonder how the budget for these two were. MVC:I looks super cheap, but I imagine the Marvel license being pretty expensive.
RE7 looks cheaper than RE6, but I'm not sure if the next gen budgets and creating a new engine might of bloated some costs

I imagine World will be the best selling of the bunch, but I'm not sure MH has what it takes to have mass appeal while still being MH.
People seem to be hyping it up, but I don't think MH has ever played very well.
Despite losing a bit chunk of its appeal, marketing has gone well and if reviews are positive it'll likely reach 2M or so

Resident Evil VII is at 3.7 million, and they recouped development costs at 2.5 million shipped.

 

[Graphics Horse]

because 'World' sounds like a spin off.

Coming from the Company that has 10 numbered Mega Man Games, Eight numbered Mega Man X titles, Seven numbered Resident Evil games, Six? numbered Breath of Fire Games, Five numbered Street Fighter Games, Four numbered Dead Rising Games...

The company is definitely not afraid to dump a number next to direct sequels of their games.

It'll be Monster Hunter Portable Wth
Pronounced Double-Youth

 

[mugurumakensei]

I dunno. If the total sales are around 4m I doubt Capcom sees it as a disappointment. If they can grow the western base to 2.5-3m users with a good DLC model I think it's a win.

If total sales are 4 million that means going from 5miillion sales worldwide with MH4U to 4million sales, that would not be enough to offset the huge production increase. As bad as SFV turned out to be, it at least was not a drastic increase in budget which means the DLC model could offset the loss in sales from SFIV. I don't think you can say the same with MHW if it sells 1 million units less than the prior entry.

 

[Tripy73]

And again...

 

[added_time]

I actually think it's a good idea for Capcom to try to expand the Monster Hunter franchise in the western markets with the game they are pitching with World. What I don't understand is why they don't have a portable Switch version of the same game coming out at the exact same time so that they have the Japanese portable market covered.
That way you keep the existing guaranteed Japanese fanbase while at the same time trying to expand into western markets on PC, Xbox and PS4.

 

[Man God]

I dunno. If the total sales are around 4m I doubt Capcom sees it as a disappointment. If they can grow the western base to 2.5-3m users with a good DLC model I think it's a win.

Why would Capcom bother going DLC when their current model is to sell the same game again to 80% of the fanbase at full price in about the same turnaround as your average AAA season pass? Going DLC heavy doesn't guarantee an up turn in profit when they've already got a mechanism for double dipping in place.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I actually think it's a good idea for Capcom to try to expand the Monster Hunter franchise in the western markets with the game they are pitching with World. What I don't understand is why they don't have a portable Switch version of the same game coming out at the exact same time so that they have the Japanese portable market covered.
That way you keep the existing guaranteed Japanese fanbase while at the same time trying to expand into western markets on PC, Xbox and PS4.

They ported XX to the Switch in Japan for a reason.

 

[Oregano]

I dunno. If the total sales are around 4m I doubt Capcom sees it as a disappointment. If they can grow the western base to 2.5-3m users with a good DLC model I think it's a win.

4m worldwide would probably be an okay result but it wouldn't represent an audience expansion. A good monetisation strategy would help certainly.

RE VII is at 3.7 million, and they recouped development costs at 2.5 million shipped.

... And expected a more than that. An individual product being profitable isn't the only thing that matters.

 

[notaskwid]

The platform is the least of mvc's problems, being on switch would not save this game in any way.

 

[Blablurn]

Fans might not like it but I think MH world should have gotten more casual friendly. I was surprised when recent previews compared it with a normal MH. It will be successful but it will not gather many new players.

 

[James Scott]

I said they made them happy for years.

So like I said the whole negative stigma ppl got on going on with the title simply stems from it not being on a Nintendo platform after many years

Not only that they’ve built an audience on Nintendo, it’s had an audience on portables for a decade now.
It loses that and the ability to play with friends locally which was a big reason it took off in Japan while games like tri didnt do as well despite being on the super successful Wii

The platform is the least of mvc's problems, being on switch would not save this game in any way.

Yep. Needed a visual overhaul and a bigger roster not being held ransom by DLC

 

[mugurumakensei]

And again...

MM so dead his body has decomposed.

I actually think it's a good idea for Capcom to try to expand the Monster Hunter franchise in the western markets with the game they are pitching with World. What I don't understand is why they don't have a portable Switch version of the same game coming out at the exact same time so that they have the Japanese portable market covered.
That way you keep the existing guaranteed Japanese fanbase while at the same time trying to expand into western markets on PC, Xbox and PS4.

That would be the smart thing to do. Normally, you try to minimize risk by making safe moves that are guaranteed to be profitable to offset potential losses.

 

[Toxi]

4m worldwide would probably be an okay result but it wouldn't represent an audience expansion. A good monetisation strategy would help certainly.

It could represent a significant audience expansion once you consolidate the Japanese audience with the inevitable portable version.

 

[BrokenJohnCena]

From what I've seen the heats between Capcom and Nintendo fans are much worse than just a monster hunter game

 

[Oregano]

It could represent a significant audience expansion once you consolidate the Japanese audience with the inevitable portable version.

They're not consolidated if you have to now develop two separate lines of games.

 

[NintendosBooger]

Fans might not like it but I think MH world should have gotten more casual friendly. I was surprised when recent previews compared it with a normal MH. It will be successful but it will not gather many new players.

I think the QoL improvements is a good compromise. You keep long-time fans happy while making it less cumbersome for newbies.

 

[Fukuzatsu]

And again...

Pretty sure RE7 did significantly better than the other games in that image.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

And again...

Revii doesn't deserve to be there imo

 

[cw_sasuke]

Expanding usually means keeping the base and expanding on what you already have....which would be the case if Capcom would bring MHXX over in addition to MHW. But they are deciding to skip a part of their audience in the west.

I understand their goals with this approach but i wont feel sorry for them either if it doesnt work out as well as they hope. When you can provide content for both markets and skip out on one its four fault if the results at the end are lackluster.

 

[lyrick]

I actually think it's a good idea for Capcom to try to expand the Monster Hunter franchise in the western markets with the game they are pitching with World. What I don't understand is why they don't have a portable Switch version of the same game coming out at the exact same time so that they have the Japanese portable market covered.
That way you keep the existing guaranteed Japanese fanbase while at the same time trying to expand into western markets on PC, Xbox and PS4.

Yes this is how a smart company would plan a market expansion to a franchise. It totally made sense to bring Final Fantasy XIII to the Xbox 360 (and later PC) as well as the PS3. It wouldn't have made any sense to shift the franchise over to the 360 and PC and leave the PlayStation base entirely while pretending to call it expansion.

I think the QoL improvements is a good compromise. You keep long-time fans happy while making it less cumbersome for newbies.

At the end of the day you're still hunting a Monster for 10 - 50 minutes straight, then repeating until it drops a mat you were hoping for to craft a thing to make hunting the next monster for 10-50 minutes a little easier...

It looks as though Monster Hunter World will still feature the same game play loop that not everyone is a fan of.

 

[Principate]

4m worldwide would probably be an okay result but it wouldn't represent an audience expansion. A good monetisation strategy would help certainly.



... And expected a more than that. An individual product being profitable isn't the only thing that matters.

4 million is best case scenario substantial increase in costs but may with good monetization strategy it will be able to offset the need for a g version. Anything reasonably below that is a failure as your looking at both a contractions and and increase in costs/decrease in profitability.

 

[patientx]

Capcom only has World left on their sleeves, right ? Really bad season for them.

 

[Fiendcode]

It still sold like 4 million copies

3.7m. It's original projection was 4m and it catalog projection is 2m more.

MHW still has the challenge of being a home console game in Japan. Even if they double MH4U's western figures that might be enough for them and I think people underestimate how much of a challenge that will be.

The real issue for MHW is going from a social/local game to an online game. The former is why it took off and sold into the stratosphere in Japan and it's uncertain if that success can be replicated in an online environment now considering it couldn't back on PS2/Wii/360.

As for sales my guess is a steep decline in Japan (from MH4's 4.1m to somewhere around 1.5m) will be semi countered by the west (from MH4U's 1.5m to somewhere around 2.5m). It's likely going to be a bit of a decline globally but not as bad as RE7 was. The game will sell enough to be spun as a success and there'll be a 5th Gen Switch game to pick up the pieces in Japan anyway.

Since we have been getting more PS4/Switch games lately and we are doing comparisons, here is another one.

Wait tor digital.

Dragon Quest IX was such a beast. I wonder whether we will see something like ever again.

Local/social components were also why DQIX took off the way it did. DQXI being designed like a throwback to DQVIII was probably a mistake in that regard and DQXII will definitely need to take some lessons from DQIX and DQX to course correct.

On the other hand, look forward to Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite next year.

If they add some decent shaders and some X-Men I might pick up the Switch version.

I dont know why Switch owners should just expect to be treated like 2nd class citizen without speaking out. Capcom has had multiple opportunities to make pretty much everyone one happy...yet they always always decide to leave out one party in their release schedule.

Can it be obnoxious ? Sure...but would we even talk about stuff like this now if Capcom had just release MML2, Okami, MHXX etc. for Switch or in the west ? As someone who would have liked to get some of those games on Switch its disappointing.

Capcom Switch support will come, they're just running late. Same thing happened on PS4 and XB1 but it was even worse, not a single Japanese made game from Capcom on either for over a year.

What has MvCI bombing to do with Switch anyway? People seriously think that if there was a Switch version it would have sold better?

I feel like even a late $40 Switch port of UMVC3 would have sold MVCI.

Not that it absolutely won't get ported or anything, but I'd be concerned about performance and to what extent people who already bought XX on Switch or MHW on PS4 would affect the sales of a potential MHW on Switch.

5 Gen MH on Switch will be built for the platform but based off World. Think Tri to P3rd. The performance gulf between Switch/PS4 is actually smaller than PSP/Wii too.

 

[Chris1964]

Resident Evil 7: Gold Edition will help to get the title a bit closer to their goal since it is released on December and they can ship a decent amount for Holidays but there is no way it will perform as good as Resident Evil 5: Gold Edition. I wouldn't expect more than 1.5 million units (200,000 so far) being optimistic.

And as for Marvel Vs. Capcom: Infinite...

I have a hard time seeing RE7 Editions coming even close to 1,5m. Capcom didn't manage to do the favorite channel stuffing with RE7 but still price went down a lot the coming months. Since there wasn't excitement from retailers and customers for the original entry it will be difficult something different happens this time.

 

[Toxi]

They're not consolidated if you have to now develop two separate lines of games.

True, but they could just simultaneously release on the portable platform and popular western home consoles.

Expanding usually means keeping the base and expanding on what you already have....which would be the case if Capcom would bring MHXX over in addition to MHW. But they are deciding to skip a part of their audience in the west.

The majority of the Monster Hunter audience is in Japan. Choosing not to localize XX has little to do with their base.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Fans might not like it but I think MH world should have gotten more casual friendly. I was surprised when recent previews compared it with a normal MH. It will be successful but it will not gather many new players.

They've made all the right changes without diluting the core game. The quality of life changes, voice acting, well-implemented tutorials, training area, graphical leap, and more robust character creator are not going unnoticed by those who are new to the series.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

Since MHTri was the last console MH and it sold around 1mil first week (I think?), would that be the bar for MHW? But then again, Wii had a higher install base at the time.

No Tri sold half of that.

 

[gtj1092]

MHW will not bomb in the West. That's not even up to debate. But it's not enough for this game to not bomb. It must be able to attract a sizeable audience on top of the audience that was traditionally buying MH on 3DS (around 1m gamers). The main reason of MHW existing is to expand the franchise popularity in Western markets. If it sells, say 1.5-1.6m outside Japan, do you think investors will be happy? All of this by forgoing a couple of million fans in the domestic market, with a much bigger investment? MHW looks really good... for a traditional entry in the franchise. This will please fans in North America and Europe, and might attract a few people that never tried the franchise. The issues is, will MHW be able to attract a lot more people? That's a harder question. Graphically it's not a showcase, and the gameplay might still be a bit stiff for the general public.



Of course it wasn't about the platform choice. Point is, investors don't typically care. They see a huge ROI from Ultra Street Fighter II on Switch, they see Switch selling like hotcakes, and then they see Marvel vs. Capcom missing its target by a huge margin. They will ask "Where are Switch games?".

But the huge ROI was because of the poor value. It's like some of you have become what you hate the the most. Can't scroll past the word Capcom without some Nintendo fan screaming "Doom". Why are we championing over priced ports due to grudges with faceless companies. If all the complaints are really about business where are all the calls for Capcom to make f2p gatcha phone games?

 

[lyrick]

Capcom only has World left on their sleeves, right ? Really bad season for them.

Their FY forecast actually was extremely weighted toward existing "Catalog" sales.

 

[Toxi]

But the huge ROI was because of the poor value. It's like some of you have become what you hate the the most. Can't scroll past the word Capcom without some Nintendo fan screaming "Doom". Why are we championing over priced ports due to grudges with faceless companies. If all the complaints are really about business where are all the calls for Capcom to make f2p gatcha phone games?

Capcom's mobile efforts so far have been a colossal failure.

Their most profitable option would be to prioritize lots of ports of their old catalog. Because those ports sell ludicrously well.

 

[Jackano]

It's not far below a price dropped 3DS in-fact it will be very close or above 3DS launch aligned after SMO launches. The real test it the holidays where 3DS sold over 2 million in November & December. Anything below 1.5 million for the Switch during it's first holiday will be insufficient. Finishing 250-750K below 3DS launch aligned for it's first year would be a great result, considering the supply problems and higher price. I'm sure that if they are able to do supply enough stock they could finish equal or above 3DS's launch aligned.
It's all a matter of what Nintendo has prepared for the holidays. To me the current baseline of 40-50K and likely a big bump for SMO launch is signalling that 3.5 million this year will be the minimum unless stock craters during the biggest period of the year for Nintendo. Something I find unlikely, to me it definitely looks like they might be able to ship around 1.5 million at minimum for Nov/Dec.

Yep exactly I agree with most of this. My point in my post was strictly on the average weekly pacing while the different systems were at a similar point in their lifespan.
It's harder to compare atm launch aligned until the full year of sales is done.

 

[Principate]

But the huge ROI was because of the poor value. It's like some of you have become what you hate the the most. Can't scroll past the word Capcom without some Nintendo fan screaming "Doom". Why are we championing over priced ports due to grudges with faceless companies. If all the complaints are really about business where are all the calls for Capcom to make f2p gatcha phone games?

Capcom tried that many many many many many many times.

They failed miserable every time. Theyre not still making all these console games out of choice.

 

[fortunato]

Resident Evil VII is at 3.7 million, and they recouped development costs at 2.5 million shipped.

I'll tell you something: companies don't exist to simply break even. Sure, sometimes breaking even is a nice result, perhaps after "red" quarters. Nonetheless, companies want to turn profits---investors want the company's product to succeed, and to succeed more often, and bigger and bigger. That's why Capcom didn't expect Resident Evil VII to simply break even, or to turn a small profits. Resident Evil is Capcom's most important franchise. It's one of those products that must drive company's result, and might cover losses here or investments there. Capcom expected 4m from Resident Evil VII in the first few months, perhaps hoping to see sustained sales across the year. Both Resident Evil 5 and 6 sold more than 6m units, hence the franchise sales have already a high bar. The main problem I see with Resident Evil VII, though, is not even related to sales, but to public's perception. The game came and went. It didn't create any buzz (6 had at least a negative perceptions, but people talked about it, and eventually liked it, given Steam sales). When a company makes an average product in its top-tier product line/franchise, and the product is not able to raise consumers' awareness... that's when you understand the company is in trouble.

 

[Primethius]

You think peopke won’t be happy and satisfied if Capcom makes an intelligent decision for once?

Some people? No.

Because they are acting like it's not going to happen when it very likely is. And it just hasn't because of how long the game has been in development.

People are creating narratives from the assumption it won't get ported and working backwards to judge certain actions which is ridiculpus.. So yes, they better be ready to eat crow.

 

[Oregano]

True, but they could just simultaneously release on the portable platform and popular western home consoles.

The majority of the Monster Hunter audience is in Japan. Choosing not to localize XX has little to do with their base.

That's explicitly what they are not doing though, and therein lies the issue.

 

[fortunato]

Local/social components were also why DQIX took off the way it did. DQXI being designed like a throwback to DQVIII was probably a mistake in that regard and DQXII will definitely need to take some lessons from DQIX and DQX to course correct.

True. DQIX introduced the precursor of StreetPass. It was huge in Japan. Given the popularity of DS, it was also able to reach a much wider audience than usual, especially older people. A true gem (even if not my favorite episode) and a textbook case study (Square Enix was also able to nurture the fanbase on DS with remakes and other spin-offs).

But the huge ROI was because of the poor value. It's like some of you have become what you hate the the most. Can't scroll past the word Capcom without some Nintendo fan screaming "Doom". Why are we championing over priced ports due to grudges with faceless companies. If all the complaints are really about business where are all the calls for Capcom to make f2p gatcha phone games?

I'm not championing over a priced port. I'm just thinking what the average investor thinks given the information he/she has. Ultra Street Fighter 2 shows that Switch audience is willing to buy Capcom properties; and is more traditional and predictable with respect to platforms like Wii. Ultra Street Fighter 2 clearly showed that an appropriate project can succeed on Switch.

By the way, I wrote plenty of times Capcom is really bad in the mobile landscape, and should totally improve there.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Capcom Switch support will come, they're just running late. Same thing happened on PS4 and XB1 but it was even worse, not a single Japanese made game from Capcom on either for over a year.

Sure, but as of now the deserve some of the flag they are getting.
This isnt much different than Nintendo getting butchered during the WiiU era even though they still developed great games and had the 3DS going on.

MHW looking great doesnt mean that all criticism on Capcoms past behavior is irrelevant.

The majority of the Monster Hunter audience is in Japan. Choosing not to localize XX has little to do with their base.

Why even bring up the term expanding if they dont care about anything else outside of Japan ? MHW is PS4/PC/XB because they want the IP to be even bigger outside of Japan. How does skipping MH XX Switch helps them achieve that goal ?

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Wii U dipped below the Xbox One. Wonder when it'll finally disappear from the chart?

In more positive observations, BoTW and MK8D really showing some leg. Wonder how long they'll last - BoTW should cross 600K on Switch in two weeks.