If that were true, PS4 would be DOA. I don't think that's true, though. PS4 is not Vita. PS3 was still the choice for third-parties in Japan (by default, since Wii couldn't handle the games they wanted to make; no, don't expect that to be the case with Wii U/PS4). Therefore, PS3 is already in a stronger position than PSP in that it's almost entire ecosystem is not centered around one game that could transition to a Nintendo console. It's not in as good a position as PS3 was coming off PS2, but it's also not in as bad a position as PSV coming off of PSP without Monster Hunter.
Media Create Sales: Week 42, 2012 (Oct 15 - Oct 21)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
If that were true, PS4 would be DOA. I don't think that's true, though. PS4 is not Vita. PS3 was still the choice for third-parties in Japan (by default, since Wii couldn't handle the games they wanted to make; no, don't expect that to be the case with Wii U/PS4). Therefore, PS3 is already in a stronger position than PSP in that it's almost entire ecosystem is not centered around one game that could transition to a Nintendo console. It's not in as good a position as PS3 was coming off PS2, but it's also not in as bad a position as PSV coming off of PSP without Monster Hunter.
If you read my posts in this thread, I called out main console entries:
This is certainly true. I don't need to bring up Graces f, and Vesperia on PS3 versus the other platform's performance in Japan. Heck, even the sacred Tales on Nintendo cow Symphonia sold more on PS2 in Japan:
[GCN] Tales of Symphonia (Namco) - 183,527 / 322,779
[PS2] Tales of Symphonia (Namco) - 269,073 / 394,312
Yes, Symphonia sold the most worldwide as a Gamecube exclusive. Symphonia was also marketed by Nintendo and was a big RPG on a platform without them in a time where that genre could still rule the west. That's being at the right place, at the right time. I don't believe Tales will ever again be capable of that success in the west after Namco's failure to build upon Symphonia's good will. It seems Namco Bandai believes as much too, since even with the weak sales of the western PS3 release of Graces f they're trucking on.
Never in any of my posts did I comment on the status and positioning of the escorts/remakes/ports until you brought them up.
Actually, SCEA of all divisions brought a Hatsune Miku Project Diva game to E3, and included it in their sizzle reels despite that series having absolutely 0 footprint in the west. It seems they're willing to work with partners who've supported them, and Namco Bandai with Tales would definitely be a partner.
As for Graces on Wii, wouldn't a better question be why Nintendo didn't step in to help Dawn of the New World? You know, it was the sequel to the best selling Tales entry in the west and all ...
frankie_baby
Member
Wasn't dawn of the new world a very low budget low effort production? If so perhaps if namco had put a bit more effort into it Nintendo would have been more willing to help
electroplankton
Banned
Have we seen Miku in NA?
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
So where is Miku Vita then? And why has SCEA/E never bothered with Tales before, while NOA/NOE already did twice?
Nintendo skipping over DOTNW was no surprise given what a subpar effort it was from every angle. 360 got the big deal mainline game at the same time and it still only sold the same in the end anyway.
metalslimer
Member
Easy, it was a piece of shit.
Guess my memory of it is terrible then. I just remember not being very impressed while playing FF13.
Maybe you played it on the 360
I was about to say this, no FF13 can be faulted for a lot of things but definitelly not for its graphics. FF games have a mantra of pretty much being the best graphical showcases for its time.
Also re your point of FF being on the decline, for a series that basically reboots itself with every mainline entry it's difficult to say this is the case. Square considers only the original numbered games as the mainline entries (not even the direct sequels are considers) so we'll really have to wait to FFXIV relaunch or even FFXV (notice how I'm even excluding Versus here). Also LR has been straight out said to be a spin-off so pretty much don't expect it to sell like anything but an FF spin-off.
Owning a copy of Dawn of the New World myself, I can attest to the fact it's not exactly a shinning beacon of quality, but the point still stands when NoA/NoE will push stuff like Samurai Warriors. It was a sequel to a big seller and shouldn't have been left alone to Scamco's own work. Dawn of the New World selling what it did in the west despite being janky, and without Nintendo's help points to how much of a missed chance it was. But that's in the past.
With Hatsune Miku I can't tell you why it hasn't been announced yet. The goal of the E3 demo and sizzle reel appearance was to draw fan reaction to a potential localization. Things don't happen over night, and maybe SEGA is waiting for the PS3 sku to be complete before doing a digital-only release. The games supposedly have little in the way of localization work to be done, so assuming they don't attempt to record English versions of the songs it shouldn't be that bad. The major hurdle would be securing the rights to use the music, but since the game was shown off with the potential for localization I have to imagine that SEGA has looked at that already.
As for why SCE has ignored helping smaller third party Japanese IPs in the past, well things change. The SCEA that was abrasive against ports on PSP is gone. The SCE that also had exclusive support from the rest of the industry is gone too, and maybe they are starting to realize that helping those who make games for your hardware exclusively is a good idea.
electroplankton
Banned
Is it official? To me, it appeared an attempt to have as many games as possible in the first appearance on the E3 once in the market.
The only significant IQ issue with FF13 is how they handle hair and some other transparencies (alpha to coverage mask, which sucks with just 2 MSAA samples), maybe that's what you remember. It still has very nice IQ for a console game (the PS3 version that is).
Not difficult to say Final Fantasy is on the decline, at all.
PS1 FFVII - 3.3m
PS1 FFVIII - 3.5m
PS1 FFIX - 2.7m
PS2 FFX - 2.3m
(PS2 FFX-2 - 2.0m)
PS2 FFXII - 2.3m
PS3 FFXIII - 1.9m
(PS3 FFXIII-2 - 0.9m)
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
SW3 may be jank, but it was also an exclusive mainline series installment that also had NCL's involvement during development. Not really a good comparison, DOTNW would be more along the lines of DWVs on 3DS or something.
It's an tradeshow sizzle reel. If this is really the best evidence we have of a new Japanese dev friendly SCEA and the sort of support they're going to extend, then "lost cause" is more than apt.
And SCEA usually relaxes standards late cycle, it's no surprise they don't give a shit what happens on PSP these days. They did the same with PS1 and PS2 in their twilight years. Meanwhile, ask Capcom USA how things went down last year with SCEA when they tried to get MHP3rd HD approved.
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/0...ed-demo-of-hatsune-miku-project-diva-f-at-e3/
They could have shown plenty (ok, maybe not plenty) of other games if it was for other reasons
electroplankton
Banned
For example? Which other games that were "partly localized"?
I thought it was Sony working with third parties... That's just Sega trying to advertising one of its games.
SEGA's doing wouldn't have it on the show floor. SCEA is pushing for pretty much everything Vita to be released here. It seemed they were going to demo Samurai & Dragons at New York Comic-Con, but a bunch of sites reported that the game was listed to be on the show floor before a localization was ever announced, lol. It magically wasn't there. Wouldn't be the first time that happened though, as Dokuro was at SCEA's PAX East booth before localization was announced.
electroplankton
Banned
Yeah but... In concrete terms? I mean, I know there are not so many Vita games to bring over to begin with, but we're far from something like Nintendo's effort.
I mean that if, as you said, they were trying to have as many games as possible in the first appearance on the E3 they would've shown more Japan-only games (Tales, Ciel no Surge, Samurai & Dragons and well, that's pretty much it in terms of JP-only games) and not just Project Diva. There were obviously other reasons such as gauging interest of the series outside of Japan, as they said.
electroplankton
Banned
Or, probably, as Sega told to Siliconera, because it was "partly localized". And Ciel no Surge... I think no one will show such a game in place like E3, lol
Exacly, it was partly localized for E3 because Sega was gauging interest. A company doesn't localize a demo only to bloat a line up in a trade show.
If you're expecting TV ads, then you're right SCEA isn't going to deliver a Tales of Xillia commercial with Seth Green or something. Maybe SCEE would but there's other ways to draw eyeballs to a game that current PlayStation Tales games lack. Any support is certainly better than none.
Actually apart from FFXIII it's pretty much alright. X and XII had the same numbers with XIII only trailing slightly behind and thats considering the previous two were released on the sales beast that was ps2.
You could argue but what about VII and VIII but then the decline you'd speak of would have happened back in the past and also it'd be like saying FFVIII is the most loved FF since it sold the most.
It's been declining or static since VIII. Another statistic not shown is that the first week/LTD % has been increasing indicating that most everyone who buys the game does so in the first week, so it's not gaining new fans. Combined with the lowering LTD, it indicates a decaying fanbase, as well. XIII-2's sales following XIII's release should be an indication that XIII really put off a lot of people, which will probably affect XV, too. (See DMC2 to DMC3 sales transition)
1st-week vs. LTD %
FFVII - 62%
FFVIII - 72%
FFIX - 72%
FFX - 75%
(FFX-2 - 75%)
FFXII - 79%
FFXIII - 80%
(FFXIII-2 - 71% (bomba bin "legs", like Ninokuni))
Sammy Samusu
Member
Bravely Default charted at #2 on Tsutaya! Let's break that 200k barrier!
electroplankton
Banned
But we don't know if the willingness to bring over the game started from Sony. Takao hinted as some kind of interest in Sony to help third parties on Vita.
Ehm, Nintendo is not only Seth Green advertisement. They bring in Europe DoA, Tekken, Rhythm Thief, KH3D, and many other games. During DS days, they localized Phoenix Wright and Trauma Center. Sony is nowhere close to this.
Link to Tsutaya chart?
Moor-Angol
Banned
Great news for great game.
electroplankton
Banned
Koei Tecmo earnings: http://www.koeitecmo.co.jp/php/pdf/ird1_20121029.pdf
Dead or Alive 5 - 580k shipped worldwide.
Dead or Alive 5 - 580k shipped worldwide.
Canis lupus
Member
I'm surprised FFXIII-2 actually almost hit 1m.
I remember Dead or Alive: Dimensions was at 310k shipped at the end of September, and KT said it sold well.
frankie_baby
Member
Only made it as far as it did thanks to overshipment and the bomba bin
I thought someone at Tecmo lamented the "not high enough" sales about DOAD.
Haven't it cleared basically what SE could ship at launch through slashed prices?
When I say SCE is pushing for games this is not speculation. This is actual knowledge.
SCE has no reason to do similar things because in most cases, those NoE deals are distribution deals. Koei-Temco, Scamco, and Square Enix all have their own European divisions to handle getting games in stores. It's especially pointless to bring up Kingdom Hearts, and Tekken in a conversation about supporting niche games. SCE does tonnes of co-advertising campaigns for games of that calibre. If you want to bring up distribution deals from ages ago SCEE published many of Scamco's releases as late as 2007 because they didn't have strong European distribution. This included stuff like Tekken, Ridge Racer, and even Xenosaga. Now they do, so SCEE is not involved anymore.
This is an argument that's going no where. I suggested Scamco look to SCE for some support with Tales in the west, and all you do is tell me how much better Nintendo would be at that job. Great, but that doesn't change the fact that the main Tales is on SCE's hardware, and Scamco's willing to keep releasing them even with weak western sales. Just drop this.
By the end September of 2011, DoA
would've been released for 4 months. DoA5's shipment accounts for exactly 1 month.This is true too, it was Youske Hayashi, Team Ninja boss, saying it
http://nintendoeverything.com/82715/team-ninja-disappointed-with-dead-or-alive-dimensions-sales/
EDIT @Takao: I perfectly know this, it's just because that is the only number we have about the other recent entry of the franchise.
It's so strange to see that the only good selling figthing game this year is a...Persona 4 fighting game. It shows how strong is the Persona 4 brand even in a currently suffering genre like the fighting one. About KoFXIV...I fear it's possible it could still be for PS3/360.
SE must be pissed that they didnt decide for a digital day 1 release for BDFF, no matter how it turns out they will have lost some sales - at this point a successor is already "confirmed" but why wouldnt they use the distribution system they used to hype and market the game for the last months. Especially when you consider that the final demo unlocks stuff in the real game - there should have been a button to unlock the full game or redirect you to the eShop once it was released.
Maybe next time Square Enix....
Maybe next time Square Enix....
SpaceDrake
Member
For a launch month that isn't too bad for DoA5. Better than I expected, in fact.
Hell, their financials look fine - unless I'm in reading this entirely wrong (and I might be), they're in the black.
The real trick is that the current management at NoA has no faith in RPGs, period, to sell on their platform. Symphonia is seen as a fluke. It's kind of a miracle we're getting Fire Emblem games at all - look at how they basically needed to be bludgeoned into even bothering with Xenoblade, and they farmed out TLS to a third party!
It'll be interesting to see if there's any kind of shift in philosophy at all on this with the WiiU - if they're serious about attracting "core" gamers then having a robust library is part of that, and I wonder if they actually understand this.
DR2K
Banned
Good for them so far. Their goal is 1 million.
Seeing how many Japanese struggled with current-gen game development, I can't see a single Japanese studio ready for next-gen. I can't imagine Platinum Games, Capcom and Square Enix ready for PS4 or XBox 720 at launch. They'll never make it. In one year, it's impossible. And I'm pretty sure they don't have the resources to have started next-gen development more than one year ago. Can't wait to see what happens at E3 2013.
jimmypython
Member
Speaking of WiiU and PS4, basically WiiU can handle all the PS3 titles (as 3DS to PSP) and with the effort of Nintendo and Iwata, I wonder if the whole PSP to 3DS transition will happen to PS3 and WiiU with PS4 left behind like the Vita.
(To be honest I can see this happening with Nintendo of Japan becoming more and more aggressive and SCEJ doing nothing....Also WiiU's already got MH and DQX)
(To be honest I can see this happening with Nintendo of Japan becoming more and more aggressive and SCEJ doing nothing....Also WiiU's already got MH and DQX)
Well, if the PS4 becomes irrelevant in the international market, then yes, the PS4's presumed support would split between the Wii U and the Xbox 720 and we would probably see Sony exit the game market.
I don't find it incredibly likely however.
You could probably make some easy money doing stump-esque cash bets with people.
I bet some of them are willing to take you up on it!
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Next gen will only really kill off smaller developers who didn't have the budget to develop flexible frameworks... so basically everybody except SE, Capcom, and maybe Bamdai. Hopefully those teams reincorporate and start publishing on platforms sustainable for them.
test_account
XP-39C²
I don't think that they will continue on current gen only (which in Japan pretty much just means the PS3). They will move on to next-gen at some point. The companies you mention werent on PS3 on launch either (well, Konami had some Mahjong game).
One of the most important things people are forgetting about the Playtation brand is its association with sport games (football, football and football) in certain parts of the world. It could sustain pretty well the next Playstation 4 along the already mentioned Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and Resident Evil, and I don't think Microsoft is going to lure all that fanbase without a free online system.