frankie_baby
Member
between wii and wiiU i'd say thats do-able
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Media Create Sales: Week 48, 2011 (Nov 28 - Dec 04)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
between wii and wiiU i'd say thats do-able
I'm comparing Layton 4+'s drop with Layton 1-3 actually. I actually don't believe the platform is the main cause of the decline for Layton as a series.
Car wreck and all that.
I think launching with the 3DS just made it worse. Some people probably would have picked Latyon 5 on the DS but decided it wasn't worth spending 25.000 yen on a new platform + a game for a story they didn't really care about.
Not a significant number of people though. Even on the 3DS, it sold over 400k. Layton 4 on the DS is struggling to sell much more than 600k. At best on the DS it would have sold maybe 500k by now. But there's also a chance that on the DS it might have sold even less, because I think a big "brand" title at the 3DS launch helped it sell a lot faster than it otherwise would have. Being the biggest non-Nintendo title at launch probably helped a lot too.
I don't think the 3DS made it worse at all. I think Layton is at a point where people are starting to get a bit sick of the yearly format, and the bloated storyline and character relations.
walking fiend
Member
1. DQ is bigger than FF in Japan
2. FF XI was not a mainline, DQX is.
3. MMOs (online, social games in general) are more relevant now.
4. FF XI on PS2 required some whacky hard-drive and network adaptor.
That's actually an interesting point too. With each game, they have progressively added more and more content that are not puzzles. Minigames, more "adventure" elements, much back backtracking, etc. With Layton 5, they have a ton of mandatory non-puzzle minigame parts which are like cinematic actions as well.
What's the difference?
I don't mind the increasingly convoluted story or the yearly release schedule at all. It's purely tedious bloat that is killing these games in my perspective. If the formula was just exposition, handful of puzzles, more exposition, more puzzles until the end I would be all over it. Keep the tea mini games and stuff on the side.
walking fiend
Member
it is pretty obvious. DQX is going to be the only console DQ for probably a long time, it will have total support of the main designers and that will be their sole concentration.
If you want DQ, DQX is the only thing you gonna get, and that will be only thing main team make anyway.
but they are on the side
I never bother with those, just like coins are easily skippable
test_account
XP-39C²
I see your point and it can very well go this way as well when going multiplatform indeed. But since you say that i'm wrong, can you give me an example where a game that was very succesful on one platform, but then that franchise went multiplatform and then people lost a lot of interest in the franchise because of that? I know that several of franchises have lost momentum, but i'm asking for an example where it has been proven that the reason for this loss of momentum is only because the game went multiplatform.
CoD was just one example (which is very popular all over the world by the way, not just in the US), i could have mentioned any console game, but i just used CoD as one example because it is a game that a lot of friends play together.
I see your point and i agree to that, although i think this is kinda subjective because someone might want to only play with friends online and not agaisnt random strangers. Online is afterall just a way to play against others that arent in the same place as you, both friends and strangers, the choice is yours. But my point regarding this isnt actually that "deep". My point apply even if there is a single platform game. If you want to play i.e MHTriG, all of you need a 3DS. You need the same platform as your friends if you want to play it. Getting the same platform if you want to play against friends have never been a huge hurdle as far as i know.
Want to? I actually do it all the time.
I thought you needed to beat the tea thing to get to some of the bonus puzzles, but it's been a while since I've played.
So, in your case, it's a facepalm for the things you said.
An auto face-palm. Interesting.
That's how I roll.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Lol whut? If anything, the "main team" is actually working on handheld DQ games! DQX is the first DQ game to not be outsourced to a company outside of Enix/S-E. It is an outlier in every single respect and is most certainly analogous to FFXI.
You guys both have SS avatars. Why do you fight?
walking fiend
Member
It is like saying that a Zelda or Mario that will be fully made under Miyamoto is not a mainline in the series, because he hasn't been fully involved in making recent entries; or that Ueda leaving Ico doesn't matter, or that Saka leaving didn't matter, etc; For these games, higher level people, like Hori, are of absolute importance compared to lower level staff and compared to a game like CoD which is going to follow the exact same formula over and over with minor tweaking than major direction changes. Or another similar example which is somehow relevant in terms of the genre, is saying that Ice-Frog has not been important in the development of DotA.
What I am saying, is if Miyamoto decides to make the next mario game, that will be the next mainline mario game, regardless of the team.
And FFXI wasn't the only console FF for a long time?
FF XII didn't come out until FOUR YEARS later.
Horii is general director on every single DQ game, even the spinoffs. Just saying.
However X-2 came out on PS2 the very next year.
That said, calling XI not mainline is kind of silly. The fanbase may not agree with it being as such, but it being called "XI" kind of makes it mainline
walking fiend
Member
There was 4 console final fantasy last gen, on PS2, another major entry on PSP (crisis core) and two on this gen. There has been only 3 DQ since 2000 and one was a handheld game.
well, that's what I was saying, that he will be making DQX and not someone else; and he will be only making this one, not like another non-spin off in a year after DQX.
As I said, by the main team, I didn't mean that DQ 9 wasn't developed by the main team or that DQ 8 wasn't (or any other entry I mean!); merely that DQX will be the main entry solely cause Hori is directing it; but that FFXI wasn't
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Hmm, DQIX-2 for 3DS a year after DQX?!
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
DQX on Wii requires a USB drive.
The fact FFXI is actually called FFXI makes it a main entry in the series. It's true that there can be main entries without a number ( Resident Evil: Code Veronica and Revelations, ...the 3D Marios, Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker ), but when there's the number, there can't be any doubt: it's a main entry.
walking fiend
Member
eh, it costs MUCH less and is MUCH easier to handle?
Yeah, like XIV... now how mainline is that?
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I believe DQX will come bundled with it, just like FFXI was bundled with the PS2 HDD/NA initially.
Between this and your crazy wrong Amazon based predictions you are reaching BurntPork's level... mare de deu.
3 puzzles for the tea thing yeah
charlequin
Banned
You're asking for something that doesn't exist. The first successful franchise based around local handheld multiplayer was Pokemon, which was a first-party franchise and therefore couldn't go multiplatform. The second is Monster Hunter. And even if there was one, "proving" incontrovertibly that it was a result of being multiplatform would be an impossible standard.
It doesn't really matter, though. You can see the issue just by looking at how the franchise has been successful so far and looking at how different things would affect that success.
Yes, that's not the issue. It's fine if people need to buy a new platform to play the game; it's not fine if different people all go buy the game and it turns out that they've wound up with different, incompatible versions. The important part is that once you buy the game, the barrier to playing multiplayer is as small as possible.
test_account
XP-39C²
How can you say that i'm wrong if it something like this have never happened before?
If you never try it, then you cant know for sure how it will turn out. It can techincally go both ways, but it needs to be proven first. In this case, not everyone will own a 3DS, so making it multiplatform can expand the market. It is of course a possibility that it wont expand as well, but we wont know that for sure before they actually try it. It is fine that you dont think that it will work. And i do agree that there is much logic in the reasons you give and that it makes sense for sure. I also never claimed that it will expand the market guaranteed, but i think that it could go that way.
I still dont think that this is a big hurlde with being multiplatform. But by going on a single platform only, at least there wont be any issues if you buy the game, that is true.
According to this months Retro Gamer Horii is in a more back seat role and is "executive director" of DQX.
electroplankton
Banned
I do agree about the fatigue of the brand, but I think Layton succeeds in any case to push such big numbers every year; I mean, +600k for the 4th chapter in 3 years is not bad at all, even though Level-5 added a lot of additional contents (i.e. London Life) to try to invert the decline. Anyway, there 6th chapter will sell more than The Mask of Miracle, and the crossover with Phoenix Wright will be a success as well. Let's see how the company is going to manage the franchise after those titles, probably a home iteration on Wii U? Hino talked about how already released titles would be perfect on new Nintendo platform.
charlequin
Banned
How can you say that i'm wrong if it something like this have never happened before?
This is not a real argument. "Well you never know until you try!" Yes, you do, if you possess a basic capacity for reason and can apply information from observation to draw conclusions about new situations.
Your argument is predicated upon finding a justification, however flimsy, for a multiplatform release. I'm going to presume that Capcom's decision-making process is going to hew more towards "what actually makes more sense as a platform strategy here?" And the answer to that latter question is to preserve the viral/word-of-mouth quality of the series by keeping each individual entry on a single platform.
test_account
XP-39C²
If that was true, people would never have walked on the moon just to take one example
Just think about all the things that people said were impossible before, but that did happen.It is a real arguement against you saying i'm wrong. You can disagree as much as you want with what i'm saying of course, and you can say that you think i'm wrong, but you cannot say that i'm wrong if it hasnt been tried before. You're coming with logical reasons why it might not work, i even agree to much of that, but to say that it is impossible and wrong when it has never been tried before, i dont see that.
The reason to go multiplatform is to expand the market so they can make more money. I dont concider that as a flimsy arguement. I belive that multiplatfor for MH could work if enough people own the systems. I'm not trying to say that MH should come to the Vita by the way, i'm just saying that i think it could work.
With multiplatform, i also mean that it could be two different games on the systems. Lets say for example that 3DS gets Monster Hunter 4 and Vita gets Monster Hunter 4 Portable. There arent any news if Capcom will keep both series alive or if they will just merge it all together and just call it Monster Hunter 4. Do you think that this changes anything or were you just replying to that the same exact game gets released on two platforms?
But all in all, this is not a discussion that has a key answer when one point (to make MH multiplatform) is yet to be proven to work or not. If you think that it is impossible for this to happen and that it will damage the MH brand, then i respect your opinion on this
But personally i think that it can succeed. But only time will tell, if it happeneds at all.walking fiend
Member
Is that supposed to insult me or BP?
You really don't have to say anything when you don't have anything to add; enjoy being in my ignore list
Probably, because it seems flash have to be fully dedicated to DQX. However, it still remains much cheaper and there won't be a problem for people at all to choose among literally hundreds of options if they don't bundle it.
Also, to put into perspective why I am not the only one who believes DQX to be a mainline entry and FFXI not; just look at all the meltdowns after the reveal. People knew that it could meant a new direction for the whole of main series and that there isn't going to be any other option for a foreseeable future , as otherwise we wouldn't see that much serious meltdowns. There's a clear expectation that FF XV won't be an MMO, but there's no such a distinction for DQXI; for all we know, that as well can be an MMO, the whole series can become only MMO if DQX succeeds. Like what happened to warcraft series after WoW and after a decade we are yet to even hear any sort of announcement regarding a strategy WC.
FINALFANTASYDOG
Member
Yes it has happened many many times, a lot of times those shipment numbers are first day....
AceBandage
Banned
The Guru got tired of meditating.