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[charlequin]

Heh - charlequin is usually great about giving credit when someone hits it on the head. I'm sure duckroll will be in too ;-)

I was growing to increasingly believe this game would turn out well below GAF's expectations as more and more evidence of disinterest filtered in, but I'm still astounded at just how bad it is. I was expecting 850k day one and getting ready to call that a disappointing performance. This is just a fucking disaster.

:bow frankie_baby :bow2 iss Square-Enix iss2

The FF brand name was already in decline before this happened. What sort of bounce back would you expect if SE announced a new, mainline FF today?

The problem here is that they don't even have a good starting point to do such a thing. They've already squandered 100% of presumptive goodwill with their horrendous handling of the brand this generation.

To even get to a point where such an announcement would make sense and lead to a potentially successful game, they need to:

• Ship Final Fantasy Versus and have it be at least a fairly good game. (I already do not expect them to cross this bar.)
• Succeed in their aspirations of redesigning and relaunching FFXIV
• Clear the decks. Get everything FF-related out. If it's in a releasable state, get it out there. If it isn't, cancel it. Get people to notice, "hey, no Final Fantasy stuff is coming out."
• Start developing FFXV as a next-gen title tomorrow. Utilize modern development methodologies and a viable middleware engine. Develop it in Japan but work extensively in partnership with Western studios on portions of the game and on regional design testing from day one. Don't let anyone who worked on any XIII-related project anywhere near it.
• Don't announce XV until you can show real, polished gameplay (and do live demos) and put it out within one calendar year.
• Launch it mutiplatform, worldwide day-and-date.

Do all that and you can maybe make a case that you've turned a corner and revitalized the brand for a new era.

(Or Square-Enix could listen to the people who bleat out "rename Versus to XV!" on this forum and watch it be the first real mainline FF to debut at <500k, if that's what they really want.)

 

[Nirolak]

[*]Start developing FFXV as a next-gen title tomorrow. Utilize modern development methodologies and a viable middleware engine. Develop it in Japan but work extensively in partnership with Western studios on portions of the game and on regional design testing from day one. Don't let anyone who worked on any XIII-related project anywhere near it.

Final Fantasy XIII-2 was already supposed to be halfway to this:

Edge: Motomu Toriyama is directing XIII-2, what do you consider his particular strengths?

Kitase: He's the director, of course, but he also has big strengths on the production side of things too. For example, we've been talking today about rectifying issues people had with XIII, and he was very pro-active about that. As you know, we've merged with Eidos and this is the closest we've ever been to a western developer in terms of working for the same group, and Toriyami was very quick to have discussions with Eidos people and try to find out from the inside about the European way of making games. In terms of both collecting feedback from the fans and in terms of his interest in western production processes, Toriyama-san has shown great capabilities.

Source: http://www.next-gen.biz/features/yoshinori-kitase-final-fantasy-xiii-2

I'm not sure what their focus groups exactly were though as they didn't seem to help much. :lol

 

[Special J]

you can do this....

I was growing to increasingly believe this game would turn out well below GAF's expectations as more and more evidence of disinterest filtered in, but I'm still astounded at just how bad it is. I was expecting 850k day one and getting ready to call that a disappointing performance. This is just a fucking disaster.

:bow frankie_baby :bow2 iss Square-Enix iss2



The problem here is that they don't even have a good starting point to do such a thing. They've already squandered 100% of presumptive goodwill with their horrendous handling of the brand this generation.

To even get to a point where such an announcement would make sense and lead to a potentially successful game, they need to:

• Ship Final Fantasy Versus and have it be at least a fairly good game. (I already do not expect them to cross this bar.)
• Succeed in their aspirations of redesigning and relaunching FFXIV
• Clear the decks. Get everything FF-related out. If it's in a releasable state, get it out there. If it isn't, cancel it. Get people to notice, "hey, no Final Fantasy stuff is coming out."
• Start developing FFXV as a next-gen title tomorrow. Utilize modern development methodologies and a viable middleware engine. Develop it in Japan but work extensively in partnership with Western studios on portions of the game and on regional design testing from day one. Don't let anyone who worked on any XIII-related project anywhere near it.
• Don't announce XV until you can show real, polished gameplay (and do live demos) and put it out within one calendar year.
• Launch it mutiplatform, worldwide day-and-date.

Do all that and you can maybe make a case that you've turned a corner and revitalized the brand for a new era.

(Or Square-Enix could listen to the people who bleat out "rename Versus to XV!" on this forum and watch it be the first real mainline FF to debut at <500k, if that's what they really want.)

or just release FF7 remake.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

Oh wow.... I just woke up and saw MC thread and told myself ( please let FFXIII-2 pass 700k ) and BOOOOOM!!!! it's 524K "

Well, the good thing is SE will move on from FFXIII and we won't see part 3.

Let this be a BIG LESSON for them for making really really bad and stupid choices.

Just go back to the classic rots, it did so well in the past.

If it isn't broken don't try fixing it dear SE.

I love you and FF is my all time favorite franchises but you deserved this.

Now please take off the number XIII from versus so it won't get some damage too.

 

[Xater]

I was growing to increasingly believe this game would turn out well below GAF's expectations as more and more evidence of disinterest filtered in, but I'm still astounded at just how bad it is. I was expecting 850k day one and getting ready to call that a disappointing performance. This is just a fucking disaster.

:bow frankie_baby :bow2 iss Square-Enix iss2



The problem here is that they don't even have a good starting point to do such a thing. They've already squandered 100% of presumptive goodwill with their horrendous handling of the brand this generation.

To even get to a point where such an announcement would make sense and lead to a potentially successful game, they need to:

• Ship Final Fantasy Versus and have it be at least a fairly good game. (I already do not expect them to cross this bar.)
• Succeed in their aspirations of redesigning and relaunching FFXIV
• Clear the decks. Get everything FF-related out. If it's in a releasable state, get it out there. If it isn't, cancel it. Get people to notice, "hey, no Final Fantasy stuff is coming out."
• Start developing FFXV as a next-gen title tomorrow. Utilize modern development methodologies and a viable middleware engine. Develop it in Japan but work extensively in partnership with Western studios on portions of the game and on regional design testing from day one. Don't let anyone who worked on any XIII-related project anywhere near it.
• Don't announce XV until you can show real, polished gameplay (and do live demos) and put it out within one calendar year.
• Launch it mutiplatform, worldwide day-and-date.

Do all that and you can maybe make a case that you've turned a corner and revitalized the brand for a new era.

(Or Square-Enix could listen to the people who bleat out "rename Versus to XV!" on this forum and watch it be the first real mainline FF to debut at <500k, if that's what they really want.)

I don't see anything you mention happening. This will not go well for SE...

 

[Nirolak]

But yeah, outside of maybe one (not holding out too much hope) or possibly four (their first shot didn't seem to go especially well), I'm not really expecting any of those.

 

[yankeeforever2]

Damn Zelda, Wii at 60k and you fall out of the top 20.

Used copies everywhere I assume?

 

[Ravage]

I don't think the name is completely tarnished. It's just that XIII-2 was totally uncalled for. My friends (who are, or used to be, XIII fans) don't seem to notice the existence of XIII-2 because:

1. They're looking forward to Versus XIII (yes! even up to now) and type-0 to some extent.
2. XIII didn't really give off a good impression.

If we compare it to X. X had a stronger impression (like what I said previously) much more than XIII.



Just release Versus XIII and move on to XV. XV should be more "traditional", akin to VII-IX. Oh and let Nojima be involved in XV, not Toriyama (only).

I agree with this. Still buying XIII-2, but the horrible impression left by XIII means that none of my friends are getting it too. Versus, on the other hand, is something they won't stop talking about.

But the FF brand name has definitely been tarnished badly and i fear for the sales of future mainline entries ;(

 

[Burai]

Retro Studios hopefully.


Yep and I think SS bombing in Europe scared them more actually since OOT3D showed there's still much interest in the franchise just not in Skyward Sword.

Surely SS's issues in Europe are more due to the Wii just completely running out of steam? Whilst America has only just dipped it's toes into the concept of a $99 Wii this past Black Friday, sub-£100 Wii's have been plentiful for the past year or so in the UK, even before the gimped SKU made an appearance. Everyone that wants one has one and is moving onto something more exciting coming into their price range, such as the 3DS or Xbox 360.

Add to that the sheer lack of software releases making the platform feel almost abandoned, and you've got a recipe for disaster. People probably want SS, they just don't know it exists or have moved away from Wii.

 

[walking fiend]

Either Saka leaving SE caused this, or more probably, Saka predicted this happening so left.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Damn Zelda, Wii at 60k and you fall out of the top 20.

Used copies everywhere I assume?

It would've had to had a 50% increase to make it to the Top 20. Kirby did that, but not the other Wii risers.

 

[wsippel]

Hope that more developers will jump to 3DS, because with this sales, will be stupid no make game for this.

I wouldn't expect much from the few that aren't on board already. They're mostly niche developers (e.g. NIS, Falcom, Cave) and don't really give a fuck. The one developer that might change its tune would be Image Epoch I guess, as they want to be mainstream.

 

[Femmeworth]

To even get to a point where such an announcement would make sense and lead to a potentially successful game, they need to:

• Ship Final Fantasy Versus and have it be at least a fairly good game. (I already do not expect them to cross this bar.)
• Succeed in their aspirations of redesigning and relaunching FFXIV
• Clear the decks. Get everything FF-related out. If it's in a releasable state, get it out there. If it isn't, cancel it. Get people to notice, "hey, no Final Fantasy stuff is coming out."
• Start developing FFXV as a next-gen title tomorrow. Utilize modern development methodologies and a viable middleware engine. Develop it in Japan but work extensively in partnership with Western studios on portions of the game and on regional design testing from day one. Don't let anyone who worked on any XIII-related project anywhere near it.
• Don't announce XV until you can show real, polished gameplay (and do live demos) and put it out within one calendar year.
• Launch it mutiplatform, worldwide day-and-date.

Do all that and you can maybe make a case that you've turned a corner and revitalized the brand for a new era.

(Or Square-Enix could listen to the people who bleat out "rename Versus to XV!" on this forum and watch it be the first real mainline FF to debut at <500k, if that's what they really want.)

Between Wada and Kitase, I don't see much of that happening, though I'm hoping that Versus turns out good.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

They just need to hand the company over as a whole to Lord Nomura-sama.

 

[muu]

FF11 offline story mode and an accessible FF14 will go much longer in terms of restoring faith in the series IMO. There's a ton of great content that people never got to because of the grind required in 11, and I think those of us that've played through it will agree that it's a real damn shame.

 

[Nirolak]

I feel repairing the brand will be the hardest part.

To an extent, FF's popularity during the PS1/early PS2 era helped get people to buy the game inspite of things that no longer appealed to them about the series.

Now that their good will is gone, I feel that their product needs to be appealing on almost every level for people to want to buy it en masse again.

I'm not sure how you do that and still have it be a global product.

 

[InsaneZero]

you can do this....



or just release FF7 remake.

No, this is probably the worst time to remake FF7. There's just far too much hostility towards the brand right now that a remake, if announced tomorrow, would become a victim to it. SE would be better off clearing the board then not showing anything for a while. This way, time would be able to clear up the negativity around the brand right now.

 

[sajj316]

you can do this....



or just release FF7 remake.

That would restore some of the faith in Square Enix. Square needs to give fans of the Final Fantasy series what they want. I didn't see anyone clamoring for FF XIII-2 and yet we got it. FF XIII-2 in my opinion was a way produce revenue at a substantially lower cost to offset the cost of developing FF XIII and it's associated engine.

 

[Femmeworth]

SE needs to hire Yoko Taro and his writing team to make FFXV. That would be glorious.

 

[BurntPork]

Somewhat off-topic, but can anyone explain why Nintendo's stock seems to decrease every time 3DS's sales increase? I don't care much, but it just seems silly. It dropped to a new full year low today...

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I was growing to increasingly believe this game would turn out well below GAF's expectations as more and more evidence of disinterest filtered in, but I'm still astounded at just how bad it is. I was expecting 850k day one and getting ready to call that a disappointing performance. This is just a fucking disaster.

:bow frankie_baby :bow2 iss Square-Enix iss2

:-D

or just release FF7 remake.

Worst possible thing to do. There's no room for mistakes or "just good enough" when it comes to remaking a sacred cow like FF7 anymore as that goodwill has been pissed away. Perhaps there was an opportunity for that a few years back, but not now. It also gives the impression that they've no idea what to do with FF except try to cling to past glories.

It might please the hardcore, but it won't help them take FF forwards

 

[Nirolak]

Somewhat off-topic, but can anyone explain why Nintendo's stock seems to decrease every time 3DS's sales increase? I don't care much, but it just seems silly. It dropped to a new full year low today...

Investors are looking at bigger market trends than weekly sales in general.

They're likely to get nervous if say smartphone sales are way up or the general market is notably down.

 

[Auto_aim1]

No, this is probably the worst time to remake FF7. There's just far too much hostility towards the brand right now that a remake, if announced tomorrow, would become a victim to it. SE would be better off clearing the board then not showing anything for a while. This way, time would be able to clear up the negativity around the brand right now.

FF7 remake announcement will generate an incredible amount of hype, but the problem is, are they in a position to make it? Probably not.

 

[frankie_baby]

Somewhat off-topic, but can anyone explain why Nintendo's stock seems to decrease every time 3DS's sales increase? I don't care much, but it just seems silly. It dropped to a new full year low today...

Nintendo's stock is gonna keep dropping until the bottom finally falls out of the app store and facebook games market (probably Saturday)

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I feel repairing the brand will be the hardest part.

To an extent, FF's popularity during the PS1/early PS2 era helped get people to buy the game inspite of things that no longer appealed to them about the series.

Now that their good will is gone, I feel that their product needs to be appealing on almost every level for people to want to buy it en masse again.

I'm not sure how you do that and still have it be a global product.

Do people really want different things though? Overall when I read impressions FF from all types of people it seems people generally want the same thing out of the series. A decent story with a wide variety of gameplay in the game. AKA same things we used to have.

If that means getting Toriyama on the sidelines and telling Kitase to trash his weird vision of modern final fantasy games, Wada should get it done. Versus has potential to be that one right now but it might be far too gone in the way it was handled to begin with.

 

[sajj316]

:-D



Worst possible thing to do. There's no room for mistakes or "just good enough" when it comes to remaking a sacred cow like FF7 anymore as that goodwill has been pissed away. Perhaps there was an opportunity for that a few years back, but not now. It also gives the impression that they've no idea what to do with FF except try to cling to past glories.

It might please the hardcore, but it won't help them take FF forwards

Well, here's the thing. It's not like you need to create a story. You have it. I'd hate to turn this into a let's make FFVII remake thread but the point I'm trying to make is that you will generate good will. This is assuming that the game is remarkable and not just good enough.

 

[kenji]

FF7 remake would only damage the brand more, as it's quality will probably not reach the original game

SE should have to work on creating new teams with new people and give them credit to makr successful new franchises, then make them do a big FF game

at this point it's not a matter of FF"x" anymore, but it's "Square Enix" and the people who works there

START WITH TORIYAMA WADA >_>

 

[weeskwee]

Vita would have sold better if not for this huge combo strike from Nintendo.

cheaper 3DS + Monster Hunter 3G + Mario Kart 7 + Super Mario Land 3D.

but mostly due to Monster Hunter.

Vita will be fine eventually. This was just a really bad time to release the Vita. Nothing beats a new Monster Hunter in Japan.

Most are just getting around to buying a 3DS for Monster Hunter. Who can afford buying 2 new consoles in one month?

 

[BurntPork]

Investors are looking at bigger market trends than weekly sales in general.

They're likely to get nervous if say smartphone sales are way up or the general market is notably down.

Ah, that's true. Since smartphones are just going to keep getting more popular, Nintendo's choices are jump on the bandwagon or just deal with the slipping stock and hope that Wii U can turn things around. It sucks that 3DS's (and likely Vita's as well) success has to be measured against one of the biggest mainstream markets.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Well, here's the thing. It's not like you need to create a story. You have it. I'd hate to turn this into a let's make FFVII remake thread but the point I'm trying to make is that you will generate good will. This is assuming that the game is remarkable and not just good enough.

...and with SE's recent internal output that is a pretty big assumption, I think. Yes, you could generate hype and goodwill from the announcement, but how much damage would be done if the final product is repeatedly delayed and ends up not matching expectations?

 

[Matsuno]

Ito, Minagawa and the Matsuno team what has made in these years after ff12? FF15?

 

[beril]

That would restore some of the faith in Square Enix. Square needs to give fans of the Final Fantasy series what they want. I didn't see anyone clamoring for FF XIII-2 and yet we got it. FF XIII-2 in my opinion was a way produce revenue at a substantially lower cost to offset the cost of developing FF XIII and it's associated engine.

Except that a FF7 remake by current SE would most likely be nearly as awful as FFXIII and would destroy peoples memories of when they actually liked FF. If they do make one it should be something more in line with the FF3&4 for DS, and not the high end HD remake that fanboys are clamouring for, because that's just doomed to fail.

 

[Nirolak]

Do people really want different things though? Overall when I read impressions FF from all types of people it seems people generally want the same thing out of the series. A decent story with a wide variety of gameplay in the game. AKA same things we used to have.

If that means getting Toriyama on the sidelines and telling Kitase to trash his weird vision of modern final fantasy games, Wada should get it done. Versus has potential to be that one right now but it might be far too gone in the way it was handled to begin with.

I feel if you're targeting the core Final Fantasy audience, it's not that problematic, but that the vast majority of the series' sales come from people who more casually like the brand.

Like, for example, Skyrim didn't sell 10 million copies solely by being more mindful of what made Morrowind good.

It's winning over the people who don't view Final Fantasy as this series with a fantastic legacy that they have to do in order to grow again, and that's hard.

 

[sajj316]

Except that a FF7 remake by current SE would most likely be nearly as awful as FFXIII and would destroy peoples memories of when they actually liked FF. If they do make one it should be something more in line with the FF3&4 for DS, and not the high end HD remake that fanboys are clamouring for, because that's just doomed to fail.

Make it on Vita and don't let the FFXIII team touch it. I'm sure some of you would like the full PS3 or even PS4 treatment but it's possible to recreate the magic on a smaller scale.

 

[kenji]

Make it on Vita and don't let the FFXIII team touch it. I'm sure some of you would like the full PS3 or even PS4 treatment but it's possible to recreate the magic on a smaller scale.

except even Type-0 on PSP is far away from what FF7 should be

 

[boingball]

Nice to see the PS3 above the Wii again. Though will be difficult for the PS3 to increase from last years numbers.

Sad to see that the PS2 lost out against the 360. Well, maybe next year the PS2 will outsell it.

The Vita lost when Nintendo lowered the price and splurged on Monster Hunter. Sony seems to be hoping that some miracle occurs again with the Vita (MH success on the PSP was not planned and I think by most not foreseen).

No PSP software in the charts but the PSP increasing in sales even with the Vita out? Wow

 

[charlequin]

or just release FF7 remake.

This has the same problems as the "Versus to XV" train, though. Releasing an FFVII remake that lives up to people's expectations would be extremely expensive ($50m+ at bare minimum), it'd take a long time (minimum of 3 years development time), and it'd have a pre-limited audience (people who liked FFVII in the first place) that prevents it from meaningfully succeeding as a path to a new audience.

Then how do you deal with all the challenges of this kind of product? How slavishly do to you hew to the original design? Do you modernize all the dated crap? What about the character designs -- how do you market a game with characters who look like FFVII's in the west in 2012 and beyond? I mean, putting aside the fact that a huge portion of the gaming audience today was like 3 when FFVII came out the first time and therefore don't give a shit about it.

The basic result will just be that even if it's executed well, you'd put out an FFVII remake, it'd underperform, and then the brand looks even shittier than it did before.

 

[Cfuentes]

3DS Triple-combo: WOW
Zelda SS: Ouch!
Vita: Decent

Next week would be awesome.

 

[Mpl90]

A short term solution for Square could be a partnership with Nintendo for a Nintendo x Dragon Quest crossover game,a-la-Kingdom Hearts, maybe?
I'm just astonished it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Diprosalic]

they should just ditch the whole numbering and start a new series.

New Final Fantasy 1

 

[sajj316]

A short term solution for Square could be a partnership with Nintendo for a Nintendo x Dragon Quest crossover game,a-la-Kingdom Hearts, maybe?
I'm just astonished it hasn't happened yet.

THAT would be phenomenal!

 

[bigtroyjon]

Somewhat off-topic, but can anyone explain why Nintendo's stock seems to decrease every time 3DS's sales increase? I don't care much, but it just seems silly. It dropped to a new full year low today...

Has nothing to do with their sales, all about the Yen's strength against the Euro which is hitting an all time high recently.

 

[Frillen]

Expected the Vita to do over 400k at least. So a bit dissapointed. The 3DS will absolutely destroy it with the 2-3 big weeks that's still to come.

 

[Mpl90]

How does it's 2nd week compare to the PSP games actually? I'm curious if the percentage is similar?

01. (PSP, Capcom) Monster Hunter Portable 2nd - 705,281 / NEW
03. (PSP, Capcom) Monster Hunter Portable 2nd - 137,851 / 843,132

-80 % (but probably this happened due to low stocks )

01./00. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (Capcom) - 880,468 / NEW
01./01. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (Capcom) - 488,208 / 1,369,000

-45 % (the first G version after the real birth of the phenomenon, and with almost 9 millions PSP out there )

Going reaaaaaaally back in time

3. PSP Monster Hunter Portable - Capcom - 114,000
8 PSP Monster Hunter PSP &#65306;63,000 (177,000)

-45 %

However, MH3G can count on the fact that it will probably rise, or at least drop not so much during this week, it'll do another good week on week 52...and then it'll have great legs, since it's a big big brand on a platform which is growing and will grow a lot next year.

This thread is going too fast however.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

[*]Don't announce XV until you can show real, polished gameplay (and do live demos) and put it out within one calendar year.

A lot of studios do that not just SE. Of course it´s not excusable for any studio that does that.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

So, FFXV for Vita/iOS then?

 

[Kenka]

They just need to hand the company over as a whole to Lord Nomura-sama.

Precisely not
I repeat : NO.

Nomura can't even take in account deadlines for a project. He is as much a manager as your local fisherman's youngest kid. In any other company he would have been fired with a punch in the throat.
On a more Nintendo note, Aonuma is on the same boat.

 

[Nirolak]

Then how do you deal with all the challenges of this kind of product? How slavishly do to you hew to the original design? Do you modernize all the dated crap? What about the character designs -- how do you market a game with characters who look like FFVII's in the west in 2012 and beyond? I mean, putting aside the fact that a huge portion of the gaming audience today was like 3 when FFVII came out the first time and therefore don't give a shit about it.

Not to mention that the ones who did play it are 15 years older now and have probably had their tastes change quite a bit.

I mean, just consider how many people owned PS2s and then how many of those same people went on to buy Xbox 360's and primarily play Shooters and WRPGs, two genres which barely existed on the PS2.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

So, do you guys think the Vita will beat the 3DS next week?

 

[Grakl]

No.