• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Meta GAF |ON| Gaf on Gaf

Status
Not open for further replies.
Barakov

Barakov

Gold Member
MiyazakiHatesKojima said:
Yeah, i love all my Nintenbros and Nintengirls :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:


iGBfIel.png

Click to expand...
Here's the best thing about the Switch : You can play it on the toilet while you're waiting for the disc in your PS4Pro to stop spinning.
 
Nymphae

Nymphae

Banned
kantbotspoiler.jpg


I do feel people place far too much importance on spoilers. I generally respect the social etiquette and feel it's a shitty thing to intentionally do to people, but on the other hand, I've had things like the main plot points in FF7 be spoiled for me during my first playthrough, and I don't know, there's so much more there, like the tweet says of literature. Nothing about the game was "ruined", you know what I mean? Of course I told my friend off for spoiling it at the time, but it was still awesome to see it unfold for myself. But the only thing I lost was that momentary discovery of an unfolding narrative. I have played the game probably half a dozen times and am looking at playing it again after Remake, because the experience as a whole is awesome.
 
JareBear: Remastered

JareBear: Remastered

Banned
Nymphae said:
kantbotspoiler.jpg


I do feel people place far too much importance on spoilers. I generally respect the social etiquette and feel it's a shitty thing to intentionally do to people, but on the other hand, I've had things like the main plot points in FF7 be spoiled for me during my first playthrough, and I don't know, there's so much more there, like the tweet says of literature. Nothing about the game was "ruined", you know what I mean? Of course I told my friend off for spoiling it at the time, but it was still awesome to see it unfold for myself. But the only thing I lost was that momentary discovery of an unfolding narrative. I have played the game probably half a dozen times and am looking at playing it again after Remake, because the experience as a whole is awesome.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure I understand the correlation between spoilers and playability /watchability or replayability/rewatchability. (Perhaps I completely misunderstood your post, though)

I’ve watched Braveheart probably 12x or more in my life, that doesn’t mean the first time wasn’t special when I had no idea what was going to happen.

Same with replaying TLOU:R 4-5x when it hit PS4. I still would have loved it had I known how it, ended but experiencing the game fresh, without knowing anything, the first time through, was just an unmatched gaming experience for me.

I’ve never been a fan of “if it doesn’t bother me, it shouldn’t bother other people” mentalities. That line of thought always strikes me as kind of arrogant and self-obsessed. Not saying you think this way, just this discussion reminds me of those kind of scenarios.

Some of us really really don’t want to know what happens when watching/playing something for the first time, that element of unknown is a big part of initial captivation. We wanna be sucked into the story, learning things as our favorite characters do.

Everyone is different, spoilers may not bother you, but spoilers really bother me, and I don’t think it’s fair for someone who isn’t bothered by spoilers to just straight up decide to project that indifference onto others and ruin their fun needlessly. At best it’s inconsiderate, at worst it’s malicious trolling. IMO of course.

(not saying you said it was okay to do so, you didn’t say that. just saying in general)
 
Last edited:
-Arcadia-

-Arcadia-

Banned
Nymphae said:
kantbotspoiler.jpg


I do feel people place far too much importance on spoilers. I generally respect the social etiquette and feel it's a shitty thing to intentionally do to people, but on the other hand, I've had things like the main plot points in FF7 be spoiled for me during my first playthrough, and I don't know, there's so much more there, like the tweet says of literature. Nothing about the game was "ruined", you know what I mean? Of course I told my friend off for spoiling it at the time, but it was still awesome to see it unfold for myself. But the only thing I lost was that momentary discovery of an unfolding narrative. I have played the game probably half a dozen times and am looking at playing it again after Remake, because the experience as a whole is awesome.
Click to expand...

The truth is somewhere in-between.

Absolutely, contradictory to the name, anything good cannot be completely spoiled by an info drop. For example, it was spoilers that got me interested in, and to absolutely love, Final Fantasy 7 R.

That said, there’s no denying that a story loses something, when a thing meant to be discovered naturally is spoiled. There’s carefully placed build-up, pacing that the story relies on, and just the sheer impact of that moment — none of those things function quite right, or the same way after a spoiler.

That tweet (not your post) is trying too hard to be galaxy-brain for its own good.
 
Last edited:
MetalAlien

MetalAlien

Banned
Lawrence ‘Chunk’ Cohen said:
I’m not sure I understand the correlation between spoilers and playability /watchability or replayability/rewatchability. (Perhaps I completely misunderstood your post, though)

I’ve watched Braveheart probably 12x or more in my life, that doesn’t mean the first time wasn’t special when I had no idea what was going to happen.

Same with replaying TLOU:R 4-5x when it hit PS4. I still would have loved it had I known how it, ended but experiencing the game fresh, without knowing anything, the first time through, was just an unmatched gaming experience for me.

I’ve never been a fan of “if it doesn’t bother me, it shouldn’t bother other people” mentalities. That line of thought always strikes me as kind of arrogant and self-obsessed. Not saying you think this way, just this discussion reminds me of those kind of scenarios.

Some of us really really don’t want to know what happens when watching/playing something for the first time, that element of unknown is a big part of initial captivation. We wanna be sucked into the story, learning things as our favorite characters do.

Everyone is different, spoilers may not bother you, but spoilers really bother me, and I don’t think it’s fair for someone who isn’t bothered by spoilers to just straight up decide to project that indifference onto others and ruin their fun needlessly. At best it’s inconsiderate, at worst it’s malicious trolling. IMO of course.

(not saying you said it was okay to do so, you didn’t say that. just saying in general)
Click to expand...
HOW DARE YOU almost sorta but not really in any kind of way accused apologetically for something you didn't do but otherwise brought up to frame your point of view to imply indirectly maybe kinda could be not really came so close to but stopped just short of help me I think I'm stuck in a loop and can't get out like a verbal black hole.
 
Nymphae

Nymphae

Banned
Lawrence ‘Chunk’ Cohen said:
I’m not sure I understand the correlation between spoilers and replayability/rewatchability.
Click to expand...

My point about the replayability of FF7 was just to illustrate that something worth experiencing is worth experiencing again I guess. The tweet just made me think about the value people place on that specific feeling that a piece of media is "more special" the first time, and what specifically we value about the things we consume.

I always remember Jeff Cannata on the Totally Rad Show podcast saying "It's like you stole that experience from me", and I've always felt like, not really man, my friend telling me that
Aeris dies
in FF7 took something from the experience sure, but how much really? Does that matter on my second, third, fourth playthroughs? Did it really matter on the first? The whole sequence was still thrilling and fresh and emotionally impactful even with the foreknowledge.

Of course people can value these things to different degrees and that's fine, I've just always had a slight fascination with how "spoiler culture" seems to have snowballed to the point where people can consider knowledge of almost any aspect of a thing they want to consume "spoiling the experience" and get belligerent over what amounts to....what? Having some foreknowledge of one of probably hundreds of thousands of pieces of entertainment media you will consume in your lifetime? It's not really a big deal but we make it one.
 
Last edited:
Nymphae

Nymphae

Banned
-Arcadia- said:
That said, there’s no denying that a story loses something, when a thing meant to be discovered naturally is spoiled. There’s carefully placed build-up, pacing that the story relies on, and just the sheer impact of that moment — none of those things function quite right, or the same way after a spoiler.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it doesn't suck to have a good narrative experience spoiled, because I'm sure it does on some level. I'm not sure I've ever actually had a really awesome twist spoiled, like say the ending of The Usual Suspects, which is something that I would think would actually have a pretty detrimental effect on a first viewing, but it might just be that you enjoy a thing in other ways if you aren't hung up about the spoil.

This study I read about where people counter intuitively report liking things more that have been spoiled for them is pretty interesting

“We asked lots of people, ‘Do spoilers ruin experiences for you?’” said Christenfeld. “The vast majority of people say ‘yes.’”
Click to expand...

In the initial experiment, his team had subjects read short stories from various genres. One group simply read a story and rated how much they liked it at the end. The other group did the same, but the researchers spoiled the narrative, as if by accident, by giving them a short introduction.

“’In this, the classic story in which the woman murders her husband with a frozen leg of lamb…,’” said Christenfeld nonchalantly as an example.

“What we found, remarkably, was if you spoil stories they actually enjoy them more.”
Click to expand...

From the study:

S6Q3sdW.jpg


NFuYsFp.jpg


Christensen repeated the experiment with three different genres: mystery stories containing a “whodunit” moment; ironic twist stories, where a surprise ending crystallizes the whole story; and literary fiction with a neat resolution.

“Across all three genres spoilers actually were enhancers,” said Christenfeld. “The term is wrong.”
Click to expand...

They did a follow up study, instead of waiting until the end of the stories,

Christenfeld’s team stopped people before they reached the spoiled ending and asked them how much they were enjoying the piece. If the benefit of spoilers comes from simply knowing the ending, you wouldn’t expect to see any increased enjoyment in the middle of a yarn.
Click to expand...

“It turns out even halfway through a story, you enjoy a spoiled story more, before you get to that spoiled ending,” said Christenfeld.

To Christenfeld, this suggests that spoilers help you know the purpose of the overall narrative, so you’re able to better incorporate all of the details and plot points that get you to the end.
Click to expand...

He uses The Usual Suspects as an example:

“If you know the ending as you watch it, you can understand what the filmmaker is doing. You get to see this broader view, and essentially understand the story more fluently,” explained Christenfeld. “There's lots of evidence that sort of this fluent processing of information is pleasurable; that is, some familiarity with a work of art enables you to enjoy it more.”
Click to expand...

But the article about the study ends with this:

Despite the fact that most people have experienced a spoiler enhancing their enjoyment of a story, the vast majority of people still think that spoilers ruin stories in some way.

In part, this is due to the fact that we can’t experience a story for the first time twice – we can’t compare the experiences of watching a spoiled and an unspoiled movie, and there’s only one chance to watch an unspoiled film. In other words, you can only discover once that
Kevin Spacey is actually Keyser Söze.
Click to expand...

There is value in this I think, just not something that I personally feel like is worth getting angry about. Anyway just some food for thought lol.
 
Last edited:
Papa

Papa

Banned
Lawrence ‘Chunk’ Cohen said:
Not to backtrack, but regarding what Yoshi Yoshi said earlier, can I change my name to Brap? I’d like to be his spiritual successor. I think I can fill the void, fellas. Let me wear the cowl, don’t Jason Todd me.

Here watch:

Imagine ever something something Nintendo something something dill pickle chips.

Virtually identical
Click to expand...

No

Fuckin Ed Gein up in here
 
Last edited:
JareBear: Remastered

JareBear: Remastered

Banned
Jimmy just went full suicide dive bomber in the gaming section. I’m not tagging him because I don’t want him to come here to post more spoilers, but just beware those who enter the gaming side. Don’t click his thread and probably don’t read his latest comments in the sticky, at least if you’re avoiding spoilers
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

When will Reddit stop being a Snowflake Central?
2 3
109
6K
Robot Carnival replied
  • Locked
Controversial opinion: NeoGAF should allow political discussions, because freedom of speech IS BACK!!
10
727
Wheeljack539 replied
  • Locked
Elon Musk to act agaisn't Reddit users for banning X links
Business 2 3
124
6K
phranctoast replied
NeoGAF staff hate me! Hack the GAF meta with this one revolutionary trick!
2
50
3K
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt replied
In before lock.
2 3 4
160
8K
LordCBH replied
Top Bottom