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[Killer8]

Japanese games have been better than Western games for the better part of a decade. Every year I make a list of games i'm interested in and without fail it's been about 80% in favor of Japanese games. Once the Japanese ceased outsourcing their IP, got through the teething stage of "next-gen" development and stopped making games that frankly sucked (Phil Fish was 100% correct at the time, sorry weeaboos), it was only up from there. Add on Western development's infatuation with DEI and the end of meritocracy and it's easy to see how the scales have tipped.

With games like Black Myth, Stellar Tits and Phantom Blade Zero, we might soon expand this to the Eastern industry as a whole.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

And that’s part of the problem, the west has been focused on graphics at the expense of dev time and content. Naughty Dog since you brought them up is a perfect example.

The closest thing Japan has to a west style studio I can think of without putting too much thought behind it is Polyphony. Focusing strongly on graphics and bells and whistles, games take forever to come out. Became a live service franchise.

You bring up these visuals like it’s a good thing when in reality they’ve ballooned dev costs and are the main reason western games mostly suck ass now.

Can you tell me who the top 10 Japanese development teams are? So we can get into some actual specifics?

Calling Shuhei Yoshida a massive reason as to why PlayStation was so Japanese centric is straight up history revisionism. Sony was, ironically, having a much better Japanese output under a Western man (Phil Harrison):
2008:

2012:

I'd say it go beyond just revisionist history and is complete fiction.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Can you tell me who the top 10 Japanese development teams are? So we can get into some actual specifics?

No thanks, as I said in the first post you quoted, I don’t care for these games. I can’t tell you anything about these teams except that they aren’t in the west.

I can tell you western games are going downhill and most are doodoo

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Can you tell me who the top 10 Japanese development teams are? So we can get into some actual specifics?

This gen so far?

Nintendo EPD
From Software
Team Asobi (Sony)
Capcom (Division 1)
Studio Zero (Atlus)
Kojima Productions
Square Enix - Creative Unit 1
Ryu Ga Gutoku (SEGA)
Bandai Namco
Polyphony Digital (Sony)

 

[Salz01]

Asia. It’s no contest.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Japan is on top of the mountain, but China is the up-and-coming dark horse that’s going to pulverize woke American Studios.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This gen so far?

Nintendo EPD
From Software
Team Asobi (Sony)
Capcom (Division 1)
Studio Zero (Atlus)
Kojima Productions
Square Enix - Creative Unit 1
Ryu Ga Gutoku (SEGA)
Bandai Namco
Polyphony Digital (Sony)

Was going to correct the first one, but looks like you fixed it

FromSoftware has only made a cross gen game and reutilizing assets something western studios get crucified for. Their games have awful framerates and frame timing, but they get a pass for it. They are now making what is essentially a live service game without calling it that and getting a pass for that as well.

Capcom Division 1? How many remakes have they made but get full credit for?

Studio Zero, still making PS3 games on modern equipment.

Kojima hasn't made a game since 2019 and is too busy rubbing elbows with Hollywood actors. If his name was Neil Druckmann, he'd be hated on.

What team at Bandai Namco?

 

[VanCityGamer]

Sony were right to focus on investing in their Californian studios like Naughty Dog, Santa Monica and Insomniac in the late 2000s and early 2010s, it paid off hugely.

But now is not the early 2010s, the culture of Californian entertainment is both figuratively and literally being burned to the ground by DEI and identity politics and the right move now would be to invest heavily in Asobi.

The righting is on the wall.

lol no. Asobi games will always sell a tiny fraction of games from Naughty Dog, Insomniac, and Santa Monica.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Was going to correct the first one, but looks like you fixed it

FromSoftware has only made a cross gen game and reutilizing assets something western studios get crucified for. Their games have awful framerates and frame timing, but they get a pass for it. They are now making what is essentially a live service game without calling it that and getting a pass for that as well.

Capcom Division 1? How many remakes have they made but get full credit for?

Studio Zero, still making PS3 games on modern equipment.

Kojima hasn't made a game since 2019 and is too busy rubbing elbows with Hollywood actors. If his name was Neil Druckmann, he'd be hated on.

What team at Bandai Namco?

I’d struggle to name 10 American ones in the same class, I’ll try…

Rockstar
Naughty Dog (Sony)
Santa Monica (Sony)
Valve
id

…after that I just can’t. Plenty who were great 10-15 years ago, but now, nowhere close.

Edit: OK, maybe Insomniac, borderline though.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I’d struggle to name 10 American ones in the same class, I’ll try…

Rockstar
Naughty Dog (Sony)
Santa Monica (Sony)
Valve
id

…after that I just can’t. Plenty who were great 10-15 years ago, but now, nowhere close.

Edit: OK, maybe Insomniac, borderline though.

Insomniac
Sucker Punch
Respawn
Bungie
Bethesda

 

[Parazels]

Where were Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid and Gran Turismo made? In Japan?
So Japanese developers are the best!

 

[Parazels]

Western games are good, but not epic. Only japanese games have a soul. Something, that makes a good game a masterpiece.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Where were Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid and Gran Turismo made? In Japan?
So Japanese developers are the best!

Not to mention fighting games, Virtua Fighter, Street Fighter and Tekken all trounce anything to come out of the west.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

Not to mention fighting games, Virtua Fighter, Street Fighter and Tekken all trounce anything to come out of the west.

Smash, Guilty Gear, and KOF too. All the west really has is MK and that shit's overrated.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Smash, Guilty Gear, and KOF too. All the west really has is MK and that shit's overrated.

Mortal Kombat has the most iconic looking characters in video game fighting and the fatalities are still cool…


…shame the gameplay’s also still shite.

 

[SHA]

Shit happens when you make university colleges a place for installing experience in kids heads instead of enabling their creativity that knows no limit.

 

[Holammer]

Western developers started looking really good in the early 2000s for a long time, then they shit the bed ca 2016 and kept at it.
They had the budgets, tool & technology. I expect course corrections.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Insomniac
Sucker Punch
Respawn
Bungie
Bethesda

Insomniac, Respawn and Bethesda are borderline at best but Sucker and Bungie, lol no way

 

[Generic]

After reading through a recent thread regarding the identity politics of AAA game developers of discovering that this appears to be only an American problem, I thought I’d take a look into the impact of this on quality, not sales.

By looking through the Metacritic top 10 for each PlayStation generation, you can see a story about the rise and fall of western gaming



PS1
Western 2
Japanese 8

Following on from the 4th gen, Japanese companies dominated in terms of quality with Square having a heavy presence.
Only Tony Hawks (American) and WipEout 2097 (British) bucked the trend


PS2
Western 6
Japanese 4

The rise of the west begins largely in part to GTA and the peak of the Madden series. As for Japan, very much a golden age for Capcom and Konami.


PS3
Western 10
Japanese 0

The golden age of American gaming coinciding with the collapse of Japan, Unreal Engine 3 providing a huge boost to western developers.

Call of Duty, Mass Effect and Bioshock providing great trilogies. As for Japan, only Street Fighter IV and MGS4 appear in the top 20


PS4
Western 7
Japanese 3

Sony’s golden age of forth party thanks in part to western studios like Naughty Dog and Santa Monica.


PS5
Western 4
Japanese 6

DEI STRIKES! The collapse of western AAA is stark with EA, Activision, Ubisoft are nowhere to be seen with the highest entry being EA’s Dead Space remaster at 28. Two of the top 4 in the Western category are European.

As for Japan, huge success with RPGs like Elden Ring, Metaphor, Final Fantasy, and let’s not forget the wonderful AstroBot.



America, I love ya, but your videogames are fucking shit right now.

And yet the most successful games are from the west. Look at any list of most played games, 90% of them are from western devs. For example:

Fortnite reclaims top spot on revenue and engagement charts for December 2024 | Newzoo Charts

Fortnite reclaimed the top spot on Newzoo's overall revenue and engagement charts for December.

www.gamesindustry.biz

1 Fortnite
2 COD
3 Marvel Rivals
4 GTA 5
5 Minecraft
6 Roblox
7 Rocket League
8 EA FC 25
9 RS: Siege
10 EA CF 25
11 EA FC 24
12 Overwatch 1&2
13 CS
14 NBA 2025
15 Sims 4
16 Apex Legends
17 Indiana Jones and the Great Circle
18 Valorant
19 RDR 2
20 Fall Guys

Only two asian games in the list and none of them are japanese.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Asia > Europe >>>>>>>> America

I really miss the PS360 when it comes to american developers. So many cool new IPs, and even full trilogies releasing on the same gen! Amazing. Nowadays all they put out is either remasters, remakes and woke shit. Hope things get better.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

As much as there are more good eastern games last year and definitely less woke shits from the eastern side. I still stand by the western side with Space Marine 2, Nuclear Nightmare, and whenever GTA VI, Elder Scrolls VI, and Fallout 5 comes.

 

[mopspear]

I like what OP is doing but I think it would prove your point better if you included more data.

 

[Loomy]

I like what OP is doing but I think it would prove your point better if you included more data.

Yeah, I don't think a single data point is enough to point to a pattern, much less a trend. Also, including PS5 when there's 2 or 3 more years worth of new games to come muddies the whole thing.

Overall though, China and South Korea(outside of MMOs) getting more games in the spotlight is a good thing. Will be interesting to see when/if games from other regions we haven't had a lot of content from start to get the same treatment.

 

[evanft]

The West has fallen. Billions must die.

 

[March Climber]

OP you have the word Retro in your name. I'll assume that you are aware of gaming's history and how certain publishers can rise to the top and suddenly fall, such as the following 3:

Acclaim
Midway
THQ

As is life, no one is invincible.

The only issue here with yourself and many others on this site, is that you guys stopped looking forward, towards the upcoming talent, so instead people like Larian, Airship Syndicate, Saber Interactive, or Grinding Gear Games 'come out of nowhere' and surprise you and others. Some of you here aren't even aware of modern day publishers and probably have no idea who 11 bit studios or Thunderful is without googling them.

Anyway, it's okay. Keep focusing on EA, Ubisoft, Sony, MS, and Activision.

 

[Bernardougf]

The Gen that made me like Jrpg again .. specially retro .

Just finished FFVI ... awsome

 

[Lionel Richie]

This gen so far?

Nintendo EPD
From Software
Team Asobi (Sony)
Capcom (Division 1)
Studio Zero (Atlus)
Kojima Productions
Square Enix - Creative Unit 1
Ryu Ga Gutoku (SEGA)
Bandai Namco
Polyphony Digital (Sony)

Kojima Productions and Polyphony over Monolith Soft (check their support credits) and Falcom is nasty work.

 

[Jesb]

Whoever prioritizes politics and other nonsense agendas over everything else deserves to fail.

 

[Porcile]

Japanese developed games are as bad and trend/money chasing as they have ever been. It's just Western AAA games are so shit right now it makes the yearly Yakuza games, mid-tier Final Fantasy and Tekken etc look absolutely incredible in comparison. Wii/PS3/360 era was great but unfortunately every western dev and journalist was too busy wanking themselves to sleep every night with their copy of Bioshock, Call Of Duty Modern Warfare and Braid to realise it. Now we're stuck with a few Japanese studios making games that are nowhere near as good as their earlier entries or just straight up remaking those earlier games and making them worse, or putting in a bunch of trendy crap like RPG elements, busy work to drag out play time, sliding through cracks in walls and parry systems. Japanese people don't even play Japanese developed games anymore except for Nintendo games.

 

[Durin]

I mean this is an obvious overexaggeration.

When it comes to what region has games that are more technically proficient, I'd still say games coming out of the US are more technically proficient than Japan.

Better graphics, higher resolution, image quality, and refresh rate. Also a lot more graphical options as well.

Games like Metaphor aren't pushing the envelope and that's fine too, literally nothing wrong with that, but I do think western games couldn't get away with that as much, whereas Japanese games because of people's weird thought process about them (again, I'm just as much a weeb, but just aware of it) they get a huge pass.

I also think Japan gets away with doing remakes and remasters with no criticism whatsoever or if a Japanese studio hasn't produced a game they don't catch any flack for it.

GenDesign (formerly Team ICO) hasn't released a game since 2016 with the Last Guardian and haven't even shown much of a trailer. No flack whatsoever. Naughty Dog literally released a GOTY winner in 2020 and their next game will release probably before GenDesign's AND they've released several ports, remasters, and remakes, and yet they get nonstop flack...

The double standard is palpable.

It's because the diminished return on graphical fidelity is making style matter more for presentation, and you have games like Elden Ring with lower resolution textures still looking better than higher fidelity western games with more vanilla aesthetics.

There is no double standard, Team Ico's games have never sold the amount of Naughty Dog to get their budgets and team size, but their games stand out more in the industry with no major controveries beyond how long it takes to release games. The Last of Us 2 did well, but was divisive among the fanbase.

Japanese games getting remakes and remasters also is good, because some are locked on certain systems, hard to find original physical release because less copies were made, and many never touched PC vs western releases.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

Wow, another thread about DEI and western culture. How exciting...

 

[Crystal Winters]

adding this topic to my watch list because I feel that it is going to provide good lists of non-woke, non-American made games. A few good European ones as well. This is a good topic.

 

[IAmRei]

Wow, another thread about DEI and western culture. How exciting...

the thread is about which dev is better currently. some of commentary might be, but mostly still about the result

 

[MacReady13]

Sony's Japanese production started to go downhill under Shuhei Yoshida, though. Well, maybe Phil Harrison, but shit went anemic real fast with Shu, looking at what they produced in 2008 vs. 2012 is a day and night difference.
WWS Japan heads like Tomikazu Kirita and then Yasuhide Kobayashi are very much to blame as well.

Yeah but if I remember correctly at that stage, wasn't Japanese game development going through a bit of a rough time? Capcom weren't doing great. Konami were gone and nothing special was really coming alone. I may be completely wrong here though with my time lines...

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Asia is definitely killing it

+ cheaper labor
+ zero care for wokeness
+ passion/craftsmanship
+ care about gameplay over graphics

 

[nial]

Yeah but if I remember correctly at that stage, wasn't Japanese game development going through a bit of a rough time? Capcom weren't doing great. Konami were gone and nothing special was really coming alone. I may be completely wrong here though with my time lines...

That was much more directed at AAA development and it's something that started as early as 2004/2005. I used 2008 as an example of Sony publishing a great variety of Japanese games, mostly of smaller scope, across both PSP and PS3, which was VASTLY better than what they were doing in 2012 on PS3 and PS Vita.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's because the diminished return on graphical fidelity is making style matter more for presentation, and you have games like Elden Ring with lower resolution textures still looking better than higher fidelity western games with more vanilla aesthetics.

No game that From has ever made looks anywhere near as good as Uncharted 4 which Naughty Dog made almost ten years ago.

There is no double standard, Team Ico's games have never sold the amount of Naughty Dog to get their budgets and team size, but their games stand out more in the industry with no major controveries beyond how long it takes to release games. The Last of Us 2 did well, but was divisive among the fanbase.

There is absolutely a double standard and no, their games do not "stand out more." The Last Guardian does not stand out more than any game Naughty Dog has ever made and most people don't know what Shadow of the Colossus or ICO even are... but they've definitely heard of Uncharted and The Last of Us...

You don't think The Last Guardian was divisive? It was because it was a technical mess with janky gameplay.

Japanese games getting remakes and remasters also is good, because some are locked on certain systems, hard to find original physical release because less copies were made, and many never touched PC vs western releases.

LOL, admitting to a double standard. The same is true of western games, especially Sony's games that were locked to console which can now be released on PC.

 

[existensmaximum]

There is nothing as overrated in gaming as Japanese games.

 

[nial]

Japan still sucks ass when it comes to making RTS games, tho.

Ahem…

Not missing any chance to post this game.
Ahem...

 

[Brigandier]

Asia and it's not even remotely close, These devs care more about making good games not who is offended or not represented enough or someone's gender or sexual preference.

MonolithSoft
Capcom
From Software
SEGA JP
Nintendo JP
Bandai Namco
Square Enix


Good luck beating this lot not to mention all the Chinese/Korean devs coming through.

Nearly every single western dev studio could cease to exist tomorrow and I won't give a flying fuck besides a few here and there.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I vote Japan not China or Korea vs Western development yet.

 

[Durin]

No game that From has ever made looks anywhere near as good as Uncharted 4 which Naughty Dog made almost ten years ago.

I'm not trying to say presentation in Naughty Dog games are bad, I only brought them up as a comparison with the division among fans for Last of Us 2 vs. Team Ico. Presentation in Naughty Dog games has always been top-tier going back to Jak and Daxter games, but I think it's fair to say there are plenty of other AAA western studios that go with generic photo-realism that is harder to tell apart + ages worse over time.

There is absolutely a double standard and no, their games do not "stand out more." The Last Guardian does not stand out more than any game Naughty Dog has ever made and most people don't know what Shadow of the Colossus or ICO even are... but they've definitely heard of Uncharted and The Last of Us...

You don't think The Last Guardian was divisive? It was because it was a technical mess with janky gameplay.

Team Ico has always had technical issues with their games, and part of their jank comes from intentional design choices. The horse controls in Shadow of the Colossus are designed for you to pull the reigns, and the animal will respond to that vs instant control like other games. In the Last Guardian, you're directing an animal that will intentionally not always obey commands, or needs to be coaxed, because they wanted Trico to feel like a wild animal rather than a predictable and more fluid game system. People have accepted this as part of their games, because they do it every time. The Last of Us 2 was the only time I've seen a chunk of Naughty Dog's fanbase pull back on a game, and even though it was still successful sold less than the previous games...which wasn't the case for Uncharted given 4 beat out any other entry.

LOL, admitting to a double standard. The same is true of western games, especially Sony's games that were locked to console which can now be released on PC.

The same is literally not true, and you should know it's not true. Japan until only recently started porting their games over to PC, when plenty of western games ported to multiple consoles + pc because the market for PC existed in the west, and western devs like the western audience adapted to digital distribution faster so more older games got ported to newer machines. If I want to legally own a copy of many older Japanese games from the PS1-PS2 era alone, I'd have to pay higher prices from collectors because less copies were even produced here in the US for sale, because getting Japanese sales were still more of a priority for them (many games released for only one console too by choice not money-hatting exclusivity). I can however on ebay now see listings for the entire Jak & Daxter Trilogy for under $50, because they made tons of copies here. Whereas, the big-budget for the time Xenosaga series only has 1 for a decent price, 2 is often $50, and 3 goes for $200+. Even obscure western games in the PS2 gen got ports to other platforms like Freedom Fighters & Project Snowblind, or cult classics like Timesplitters 1 exclusive to PS2 can still be found for cheap on ebay.

The reason I'm more ok with Japanese remasters and PC ports is they're the more affordable way to even play those games legally, unless I wanna sail the high seas.

 

[Hudo]

Ahem…

I’d love an update to the classic Command & Conquer series though

Thanks for closing Westwood, EA

Eh... Pikmin does not scratch the same itch. But I see where you are coming from and big kudos to Miyamoto for creating this IP. It's fun.

 

[cireza]

This gen so far?

Nintendo EPD
From Software
Team Asobi (Sony)
Capcom (Division 1)
Studio Zero (Atlus)
Kojima Productions
Square Enix - Creative Unit 1
Ryu Ga Gutoku (SEGA)
Bandai Namco
Polyphony Digital (Sony)

Sonic Team and Team Ninja are top class.
Also SEGA Japan internal, doing the Valkyria series.
Monolith Soft as well.

In the West I would only pick Retro Studios for big games.
Otherwise, there are smaller studios that do awesome games, like Dead Cells, Outer Wilds, Lizardcube are awesome etc...

 

[Gamerfan81]

Many of us here have been gaming since the 80s and 90s, with some members even starting in the 70s. We know good quality games.

Good game is subjective, but almost everyone agrees it has to be fun at the very least, and visual art style is a close second. Besides an exception like BG3, the West has failed on these 2 important aspects of what makes a good game with too much focus on controversial real world and social politics shoehorned into a game.

It's really stupid that the West has alienated its core customers that would buy their games at $70 on the first day of release, along with their hardware. It's the hardcore and average gamer that is the reason whey the video game industry is head and shoulders above any other entertainment industry in terms of revenue and profit. The Film/tv, sports, and music industry combined does not even match the revenue of the gaming industry.

In short, you don't fuck around with your core customer base, insult, and not cater to them if you want to remain in business. A few other industries like Anheuser-busch and Gillete have to change course after massive controversies and loss revenue, they had to go back and appeal to their core constituency. Western developers and gaming companies better learn real quick who pays the bills and it ain't the mentally ill groups they try to appeal to.

 

[Fafalada]

I mean this is an obvious overexaggeration.

I also think Japan gets away with doing remakes and remasters with no criticism whatsoever or if a Japanese studio hasn't produced a game they don't catch any flack for it.

Some even get celebrated for endless recycling, eg. RE4.

That said the tech piece is a mixed bag. It's true West has been ahead there but past the move to open worlds in ps3 era, game industry has been really tech stagnant for a long time now as a whole.
Sure the graphics keep evolving but the rest, we're mostly playing the same games we did 20 years ago with a nicer coat of paint.
And Japan or Asia isn't any exception to that either of course.

 

[Zathalus]

Europe has some quality studios and great recent output.

Remedy
Larian
CDPR
Owlcat
Paradox
Housemarque
Warhorse
Asobo

 

[Hudo]

Europe has some quality studios and great recent output.

Remedy
Larian
CDPR
Owlcat
Paradox
Housemarque
Warhorse
Asobo

Also: Bohemia Interactive (Arma), Mercurysteam (Seem to be Nintendo's developer of choice for 2D Metroid), Grimlore Games (The Spellforce games and now Titan Quest II) and Ubisoft Blue Byte (The Anno games). And depending on how Crysis 4 turns out, maybe even Crytek.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Europe has some quality studios and great recent output.

Remedy
Larian
CDPR
Owlcat
Paradox
Housemarque
Warhorse
Asobo

Good point, I’ll have to to a breakdown of the top 50 games by Asia, America and Europe at some point soon

 

[GymWolf]

Too bad i don't give a fuck about metacritic or modern media