SolidSnakex
Member
Shoryuken said:
Well I did say this look as good as MGS2, so it goes without saying that it looks better than Twin Snakes.
Metal Gear Acid: new pics
- Thread starter neo2046
- Start date
Well I did say this look as good as MGS2, so it goes without saying that it looks better than Twin Snakes.
TTS was messy but it still had much better modeling and texturing overall than Ac!d. This looks more like the PS1 MGS running on Bleem DC than MGS2/TTS. Relatively pixellated textures and angular models all around, it really doesn't look any better than the E3 build (which was running on the old 8MB PSP spec).... so hopefully things improve before release.
I'm also unsure how much of "Team Kojima" is really working on it. You'd think they'd be stretched thin between MGS3 and Boktai DS.
I'm also unsure how much of "Team Kojima" is really working on it. You'd think they'd be stretched thin between MGS3 and Boktai DS.
SolidSnakex
Member
"I'm also unsure how much of "Team Kojima" is really working on it. You'd think they'd be stretched thin between MGS3 and Boktai DS."
Forgot about the ZOE team who's doing nothing right now (unless this is their game).
Forgot about the ZOE team who's doing nothing right now (unless this is their game).
SolidSnakex
Member
jarrod said:
Kojima basically takes new programmers for each of his games (although he keeps a general core team) and then once that game is done they split up into other divisions at Konami sometimes sticking Team Kojima. I'm guessing that some of those new guys that worked on MGS2 are working on this now. And with hope, the director will turn out to be Shuyo Murata.
I KNOW what emulated MGS looks like, and the problem is that those small pics don't reveal the problems. The models are flat out horrible, the textures swim and break like crazy, the framerate is crap, and the effects are very simple. It doesn't look CLOSER to...the difference is quite massive and MGA looks closer to MGS-TTS or MGS2 than the original PSX game (even via emulation). The Bleemcast edition looks worse than ePSXe as well, for many reasons...
Well unfortunately those small pics are all I can find (neither IGN nor Gamespot has MGS Bleem shots)... and to be honest they look very comparable to these new Ac!d shots. While there might be framrate and texture tearing problems, I was mainly comparing the quality of textures used and modeling (which are better in Ac!d admittedly, but still nowhere near MGS2/TTS). Really I'd say Ac!d looks more like an early DC game than anything, only with worse texturing. :/dark10x said:
Hopefully things will improve with PSP's RAM increase though, like I said this looks exactly like the 8MB E3 build. That might explain the weak texturing anyway...
Justin Bailey
------ ------
That must be some reeeeeal good shit you're smoking.SolidSnakex said:
jarrod said:
Here's a few pics of MGS running on ePSXe. Sadly, my pics are small and I don't feel like taking new ones...but this is the best quality you could expect out of the game. The Bleemcast release fails to compare...
MGA has a much cleaner look that, while not as complex as MGS2 or TTS, looks quite similar to those console titles...
Look at his character model in MGA...that's WAY beyond MGS PSX...
SolidSnakex
Member
btrboyev said:
And i'm the one you're telling to remove the goggles.
It was a pretty big downgrade, but not all of those reasons were technology related (most were, though). The problems are enough to keep me from playing it often...
I'm listening to those few MGS3 tracks and reading this thread, so I'm in the mood for MGS. I was about to bust out TTS, but honestly, the problems seriously keep me from wanting to play. I may pop in MGS2 AGAIN...
MaddenNFL64
Member
Man, I so wish Konami made TTS's models. Silicon Knights did a good job, but they just couldn't get the models right.
cybamerc said:
Hmmm?
Where did you get THAT from? TTS had slightly better shadows than MGS2, afterall (it would be clearly better if they were more consistant). That was one of the few areas where TTS stands above MGS2. The other area where TTS shined was texture resolution (despite the often poor compression used).
MGS2 was ahead in terms of most everything else, but the biggest problems with TTS were the poor framerate and the almost complete lack of post processing effects (which were so amazing looking in MGS2 and now 3). I just don't understand WHY they moved away from using those effects...they were so incredibly beautiful.
I suppose I wouldn't expect you to really know, though, as you've never played MGS2 before and it is probably the same case with TTS.
cybamerc said:
Actually, if there are none (and really, we don't know at this point), it IS unacceptable and I'd be just as disappointed. Don't play it off as if it isn't a big deal. If you haven't seen either of these games in person, how could you possibly comment on something like that?
Well, like I said, they were not consistant. The projected shadows looked nicer on SoL, that's true, but they were a bit more robust in TTS at times (at least as far as I remember). They were quite rough looking at times, though...
Another aspect where TTS shined in SOME scenes was in the usage of very nice pre-baked shadow maps (which is really just an artistic critique, not a technical one). Once again, this was far from consistant as some areas were flat and lifeless while others (such as Ocelot's first room) were beautiful.
The overall design of everything in SoL is way more consistant than TTS, though. A lot of that is the fault of Silicon Knights. They are a smaller, less experienced team, however...so it isn't TOO suprising.
dark10x:
> Don't play it off as if it isn't a big deal. If you haven't seen either of these games in
> person, how could you possibly comment on something like that?
It's quite obvious that there's no color grading which is one of the thing you and a few others lambasted TTS for.
> Don't play it off as if it isn't a big deal. If you haven't seen either of these games in
> person, how could you possibly comment on something like that?
It's quite obvious that there's no color grading which is one of the thing you and a few others lambasted TTS for.
cybamerc said:
What? Color grading? Forgive me if I am thinking of the wrong issue here, but you are referring to color banding issues and color gradation issues? If that is the case, you could not possibly be MORE wrong. TTS is an incredibly grainy looking game. Textures have some serious color banding issues and dark areas really are quite grainy. I'm sitting here right now with the game running on my TV (in 480p mode). The image quality of TTS is very dirty (which is a shame as GC has the very best component output of the 3 systems). I should point out that the game was quite a bit nastier looking on my older analog TV as well (which was a high quality, though small, TV). There are few GC games with worse IQ than TTS...
For the record, MGS2 on PS2 is MUCH cleaner looking overall (even in 480i). The XBOX version suffered from awful color banding (compression) issues in regards to textures...but the actual display was clean enough. TTS seems to run in 16-bit color while I do not believe that is the case for MGS2 (the color variation can be quite high without any noticible defects...such as the intense, colorful lights from the cars during the opening overlayed a top of the gray/green backdrops). There were a lot of additional graphical features in MGS2 that were flat out missing from TTS (and also seem to be missing from MGA).
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
The shadows are there, though:
I'm just worried this game will have a lot more serious issues than anything shadow related...
MaddenNFL64
Member
Since TTS didn't sell, maybe Konami could do a redux version. Pretty much TTS, but with the necessary changes & fixes to make it look like MGS2, and maybe better.
And maybe have an ad campaign in NA? Maybe?
And maybe have an ad campaign in NA? Maybe?
For what its worth, TTS is still based off of a PS1 game with the level design. In some area TTS expanded on these levels and they usally looked pretty good, but it wasn't consistent. I still don't see huge framerate problems with TTS either..just some very small issues during the first snow level. I really don't see a big downgrade from MGS2 other than character models and promised lighting. But either way SSX, MGA looks nowhere as good as either game...I think your the only one who sees different.
MaddenNFL64
Member
There are major framerate problems in TTS?
ZombieSupaStar
Member
ok so how does it play exactly?
Do you watch the realtime game and then counter with certain cards?
IE snake is neara vent use the climb vent card?
r is it just a standard battle game and the video feedback just "illustrates" the battle?
Do you watch the realtime game and then counter with certain cards?
IE snake is neara vent use the climb vent card?
r is it just a standard battle game and the video feedback just "illustrates" the battle?
Justin Bailey
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If you're a nitpicking bastard, yes. It can get choppy when there's a lot of guys on the screen and in a few areas. Normal people wouldn't consider this "major" however.MaddenNFL64 said:
ZombieSupaStar
Member
akascream said:
Yes
jarrod said:
What constitutes major you say?
If a game fails to hold 60 fps more than 60% of the time, it is SEVERE...and TTS is quite severe. Throughout normal play, the framerate will bounce between 30 and 60 fps very often. I've gone over this in GREAT detail previously, so I don't particularly feel like typing a lot on this...but I will if I have to.
Basically, with TTS, almost all combat situations will run at 30 fps. What's worse, is that the game often flucuates between 30 and 60 on a regular basis. Combat is typically 30 fps and exploration is usually 60 fps...but there are plenty of times where walking down a hallway will trigger bouts of slowdown. It makes the game look VERY jumpy. If you stop in any room and pan the camera in a circle, there is a damn good chance that it will jump between 30 and 60 fps as you rotate. This slowdown is NOT something rare nor do you have to be nitpicky to see it. It occurs throughout the game in virtually every area. There are exceptions to this, of course, but by and large, the game just can't hold a steady framerate. The dips are as frequent as the Japanese version of Sega Rally 2 for DC. It bothers me so much because it is like a painful tease. You get these pockets of 60 fps, but it always feels as if the game is about to chop up...and it often does.
Honestly, if you people aren't seeing this, I don't know what to tell you.
Viewtiful Joe PS2 does not have "major" problems, as it holds 60 fps the vast majority of the time. Symphonia PS2 does not have major framerate problems, but it was disappointingly reduced to 30 fps. I would have preferred if TTS simply ran at 30 fps the entire time as opposed to the mess it is now. Sure, I would have complained if it were 30 fps as well...but a constant framerate is MUCH more important to me (or at least a framerate that can hold 60 fps the vast majority of the time).
btrboyev said:
Your eyes must be defective, as I have tested out several different copies on different systems (to see whether the skips that occured during cutscenes were a system problem or not. They weren't.) Those problems ARE there, whether you see them or not.
Why not list me a bunch of games that you own? Let's see just how good your eyes really are when it comes to detecting this sort of thing...
Go check out the staircase by the elevator...sub 30 fps so often. I'm playing it right now. SLOOOOW
dark10x said:
Yes there are framerate problems, but you act as though MGS2 is perfect in that regard - it is not.. There are times when the game slows down significantly - i actually prefer dropped frames to drawing all of the frames in slow motion.. Plus the screen tearing in FPS mode (check out the battle with fatman or whatever) is TERRIBLE - something i normally see in PC games.. I agree with you that MGS2 looks better overall than TTS but it's a matter of personal preference i think, not night and day like you are trying to say.