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Metal Gear Community Thread |OT3| The Best is Yet to Come

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R

Rajang

Member
Screaming Meat said:
Can love really bloom on the Battlefield?
Click to expand...

Yes.

6961_med.jpg


Here's a Love Box for Sn4ke and Dawg.

Now go on..
 
L

Love Deterrence

Member
Sn4ke_911 said:
Do you have alzheimer or something? I already explained everything sufficiently on gram i'm getting tired of repeating myself, so glad i left this place and now you bring that shit in here? what the hell is wrong with you?

I thought we were done?





Don't bring that telegram drama shit in here ffs, there is a reason why i left.

Or just admit it, you're mad because i unfollowed you on twitter.



See? Dawg ALWAYS trying to start shit.
Click to expand...


Y u quote me bruh
 
D

Dawg

Member
Time and again the community thread was ruled by a foreign moderator. When the thread was still in its early days, we lost many native posters: the bedrock for any developing community. Our community, our brothers, our faces, our identity... everything was stolen from us.

In the moderators eyes, the greatest symbiotic parasite the community's ever known isn't microbial, it's linguistic. Words are what keep discussion, our thread, alive.

Free the thread, not by taking men's accounts, but by taking their thread privileges.

With this, they'lI rid the thread of infestation, sans lingua franca, the community will be torn asunder... and then, it shall be free.

The chain of retaliation is what will truly bind this community together as one.

...

Les Sn4kes Terrible. Zero called it.
 
M

MajorTom

Member
has it been confirmed that the voice is Zero? Oh man I can't believe I didn't realise sooner.

Also watching the trailer again has made me once again realise that I don't like Kiefer's voice acting for this game. Every word he says just blends into one long mumble.
 
S

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
MajorTom said:
has it been confirmed that the voice is Zero? Oh man I can't believe I didn't realise sooner.
Click to expand...

No, but considering:

A) He's British (no one else in the series is)

B) He's discussing a plan attributed to Zero earlier in the trailer

I've no doubt it's Zero.

MajorTom said:
Also watching the trailer again has made me once again realise that I don't like Kiefer's voice acting for this game. Every word he says just blends into one long mumble.
Click to expand...

He says 6 words.
 
S

Sushigod7

Member
MajorTom said:
has it been confirmed that the voice is Zero? Oh man I can't believe I didn't realise sooner.

Also watching the trailer again has made me once again realise that I don't like Kiefer's voice acting for this game. Every word he says just blends into one long mumble.
Click to expand...

I don't think confirmed it just makes sense in whats being said.
 
O

OldLogos

Banned
Screaming Meat said:
I've yet to read the article, but I'm afraid this is utter reductivist bollocks. You can reduce anything down to a single line that fits any agender (pun!).

She's given an extensive backstory and characterisation; she (retroactively) kick starts and acts as the fulcrum to the entire series; she is respected and deferred to by every character in the series (even the one person who despises her does so because she is so supremely capable); and she absolutely kicks everyone's arse effortlessly.
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Yeah the part in the middle on the Boss felt pretty forced, which was what i was kinda trying to get at with "boiling her down to make BB cry" but it came off like i bought that bit.

What, i think, is a much better argument presented was the sexism in Kojima's 'strong' female leads, esp. Meryl and Sniper Wolf. Sniper Wolf, essentially, has no volition - she says it herself her greatest asset is to wait, to wait for the man she has to kill. I don't think its a reach that this enforces a negative stereotype about women by explaining away all her prowess simply as being able to wait longer than anyone else.

The article also argues Kojima uses Meryl to project his own values on gender roles by having her reject traditional female roles to be more masculine and a solider in the first game - which is what Snake (Kojima) ostensibly likes because he places a higher value on masculine characteristics - only to, in the end of MGS 4, have her realize that she never wanted any of that life (she only did it to be closer to her 'dead' father; its revealed Campbell basically set her up to be a soldier before she made the decision) and trade in her desert eagle for a bouquet of flowers in what has to be the worst MGS scene EVER.

I'm one of the few that actually really really liked MGS 4 and all its craziness, but this scene i can not abide for what it does to Meryl's arc. It's a classic tale - have you ever seen My Fair Lady? - where the wild masculine woman is eventually shown the err of her ways, that she shouldn't fight her nature as a woman, and must through some male's (Johnny Sazaki of all fucking people...) action reaffirm her conservative gender role. This isn't "happily ever after." This is "you were wrong to try to run with the boys, now get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich."

Screaming Meat said:
I may be jumping the gun (haven't got much further), but this completely ignores the fact that Solid Snake was explicitly created and is shown in game to be a subversion of this ideal.

He's never in control in MGS1. He's manipulated left right and centre by Naomi, by Campbell, by Houseman, (retroactively) by The Patriots, and by Liquid. He rarely knows what is going on.

Snake isn't removed from the "mental, emotional and physical toll". His whole plot arch is based around the fact that he wants to break away from his "generic destiny". Liquid accuses him of "Enjoy[ing] all the killing" and that's exactly what he's trying to break away from. He's shown as damaged by his experiences and clearly suffers from mild PTSD from the events of the previous two games. Hell, this guys anguish is doubled if you don't save Meryl.

That's not to say that Metal Gears treatment of women isn't above scrutiny, of course. We should reassess it but you have to look at the whole thing and approach it even handedly. I'll read the rest when I finish work, but so far the article appears to pick and choose elements to make its point.
Click to expand...

I totally agree I think the article is wrong here to lay him out as the most generic 80s/90s action movie here there ever was because it doesn't account for a lot of the meta narrative that Snake has been under control by the body he thought he was fighting from the beginning, and that THEY wanted him to be that action hero persona for THEIR desires, not his.

BUT, some of how this characterization is achieved through interactions with women is, IMHO, a bit misogynistic. First, SS and BB are constantly often grandly deceived by women - Naomi, EVA - which is a very old and troublesome gender stereotype. I'm not saying that women in any story shouldn't be deceptive, but rather that making deception their key trait like Naomi and Eva is a bit off.

Second, Meryl's death is problematic because it amounts to her life not serving any other purpose than to motivate snake to realize he's not the great badass everyone things he is, and he "is a loser." Snake doesn't learn anything from her death other than "I can't do everything," it doesn't really affect his arc at all, and thats the problem. Her death could have been used to say something, but all it serves is to double his anguish.

edit:
Screaming Meat said:
It's interesting. He normally references films and stuff for Metal Gear, but this one seems to be more literature based, so it seems fitting that he's upped his game, so to speak.
Click to expand...

I had this same thought when i was debating reading Moby Dick. Seems sort of weird, considering how much 80s movies (Escape from NY, Terminator, etc) have influenced the whole series that the one game set in the 80s is going with Herman Melville references...
 
S

Sn4ke_911

If I ever post something in Japanese which I don't understand, please BAN me.
Boss with gas mask.

2015-07-1017_42_36-wiv8yhm.png



Who is the guy in the background? Is it the Man on Fire aka Volgin?

Hmm....

2015-07-1017_43_42-witmlrq.png
 
R

Rogue Agent

Banned
Error1355 said:
I have some serious issues of not being able to tell who is who in that last trailer and in the game play demo. Everyone's voice sounds... really alike this time.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've heard others having the same problem with certain voices, not being able to identify which one belongs to which character.
 
E

Error1355

Member
Rogue Agent said:
Yeah, I've heard others having the same problem with certain voices, not being able to identify which one belongs to which character.
Click to expand...

I imagine I'll get better at it the more I hear them in game. Kaz and Big Boss are the two I feel like I could get the easiest, but even Kaz and Ocelot sound alike in the gameplay demo for me too.

Hopefully it does get better for me.
 
W

wilsonda

Member
Anyone recommend a good surround headset for ps4... planning to get the golds when I get.my ps4 but want to make sure they are good for mgo
 
S

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
OldLogos said:
Yeah the part in the middle on the Boss felt pretty forced, which was what i was kinda trying to get at with "boiling her down to make BB cry" but it came off like i bought that bit.
Click to expand...

Ah. My bad.

OldLogos said:
What, i think, is a much better argument presented was the sexism in Kojima's 'strong' female leads, esp. Meryl and Sniper Wolf. Sniper Wolf, essentially, has no volition - she says it herself her greatest asset is to wait, to wait for the man she has to kill. I don't think its a reach that this enforces a negative stereotype about women by explaining away all her prowess simply as being able to wait longer than anyone else.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can see that.

Taking that example though, doesn't that kind of apply to The End? Is it perhaps more a stereotype of snipers rather than something gender based?

OldLogos said:
The article also argues Kojima uses Meryl to project his own values on gender roles by having her reject traditional female roles to be more masculine and a solider in the first game - which is what Snake (Kojima) ostensibly likes because he places a higher value on masculine characteristics - only to, in the end of MGS 4, have her realize that she never wanted any of that life (she only did it to be closer to her 'dead' father; its revealed Campbell basically set her up to be a soldier before she made the decision) and trade in her desert eagle for a bouquet of flowers in what has to be the worst MGS scene EVER.
Click to expand...

Okay.

Playing Devil's Advocate here: As I recall, her story arc in MGS has her reject those values. She spends most of the time conflicted about what she wants, a military life or a "normal" life. You could argue (at a stretch) that if she survives the end of MGS, she's actually rejecting the life imposed on her by the patriarchal authority figures in her life. I only half-believe that one, though I don't consider Meryl one of the problematic female characters.

OldLogos said:
I'm one of the few that actually really really liked MGS 4 and all its craziness, but this scene i can not abide for what it does to Meryl's arc. It's a classic tale - have you ever seen My Fair Lady? - where the wild masculine woman is eventually shown the err of her ways, that she shouldn't fight her nature as a woman, and must through some male's (Johnny Sazaki of all fucking people...) action reaffirm her conservative gender role. This isn't "happily ever after." This is "you were wrong to try to run with the boys, now get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich."
Click to expand...

I've got more issues with My Fair Lady's Classism than anything. Then again, I'm a working class schmoe with a chip on his shoulder. :) I do see your point though.

OldLogos said:
I totally agree I think the article is wrong here to lay him out as the most generic 80s/90s action movie here there ever was because it doesn't account for a lot of the meta narrative that Snake has been under control by the body he thought he was fighting from the beginning, and that THEY wanted him to be that action hero persona for THEIR desires, not his.

BUT, some of how this characterization is achieved through interactions with women is, IMHO, a bit misogynistic. First, SS and BB are constantly often grandly deceived by women - Naomi, EVA - which is a very old and troublesome gender stereotype. I'm not saying that women in any story shouldn't be deceptive, but rather that making deception their key trait like Naomi and Eva is a bit off.
Click to expand...

I don't agree here. Naomi is a problematic character but almost everyone is deceiving Snake in one way or another. The majority of them are men. I'd argue that Liquid's biggest affront to Snake is his Miller reveal.

Now, EVA. EVA is a spy, so that's very much part of her job to be deceptive. I don't think it has anything to do with gender parity either, since there is a male equivalent to her in the form of Ocelot who turns out to be the most deceptive character in the series.

Christ, Kojima won't even let the ladies have that! :D

OldLogos said:
Second, Meryl's death is problematic because it amounts to her life not serving any other purpose than to motivate snake to realize he's not the great badass everyone things he is, and he "is a loser." Snake doesn't learn anything from her death other than "I can't do everything," it doesn't really affect his arc at all, and thats the problem. Her death could have been used to say something, but all it serves is to double his anguish.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I remember I found that dialogue strange at the time, even quite jarring ("She's dead and he's talking about "losing"?).

I may be jumping through hoops here to cover Kojima's back, but I always took it as Snake indirectly talking to the player: it's the player who is the loser, who can't do anything, and they are being told by the support team to carry on with the game. It's the only time that Snake talks about "winning" or "losing" that I can recall and that has never seemed like his motivation in any game.

As to not affecting Snake's arc... Well, I'm not sure whether that was a conscious effort on Kojima's part or a limitation of the medium.

OldLogos said:
edit:

I had this same thought when i was debating reading Moby Dick. Seems sort of weird, considering how much 80s movies (Escape from NY, Terminator, etc) have influenced the whole series that the one game set in the 80s is going with Herman Melville references...
Click to expand...

That's not even half of it from what I've seen.

Mexen said:
Man, if this happens to me, I think my pride will be hurt. Lol
Click to expand...

It's basically Ninja Dog all over again!
 
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