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[Leguna]

I can't stop playing the demo of MGS3! I'm very excited about the final release! Anyways, I found some quirks, glitches and better ways to do certain moves...

-For what ever reason, everytime you enter first person view mode with ANY weapon, including the knife, Snake is holding a gernade in his right hand (it's not suppose to be there). Hopefully Kojima's team already noticed it and will eliminate that quirk from the final. To see the a full frontal view of the gernade in Snake's hand, try to hit select just as Snake is lowering his MK22 (the gernade's lowering animation occurs late and is left in mid air for a second) at just the right moment .

-Has anyone noticed the strangely LONG loading time for the codec screen? Not that it bugs me too much, but I wouldn't be surprised if the final game is the same way because the left over ram is saved for the camo/items screen, that's my guess at least.

-When Snake grabs an enemy (press and hold the circle button beside the enemy without holding a direction) the player has 3 choices to make:
1. Slit the enemy's throat open (hold circle button harder).
2. Throw the enemy to the ground and hold him up while he's laying down (hold a direction and hold the circle button harder).
3. Use the enemy as a human sheild and draw your weapon and attack other enemies (while holding circle, press and hold the square button and enter 1st person view mode while holding R1).
This part concerns choice number 3; COULD KOJIMA MAKE IT ANY HARDER AND UNCOMFORTABLE TO EXECUTE THAT MOVE??? Well, I have a answer; there is an easier way. Grab the enemy as you normally would (holding circle down) and then hold down R1 to enter first person view mode, while in first person view mode you can let go of circle button and pull out your weapon with square. Now you can let go of R1 and now you are holding the enemy out of first person view, holding your gun out and NOT holding circle down. It's a little confusing, but at least it can be done instead of holding down 4 buttons.

-So far, I have gotten 3 "Disc Read Error" messages while playing the demo. This may simply be because I own a first generation PS2.

If anyone found anything else worth mention, PLEASE tell me! I'd love to know. I enjoy finding every little possible detail in Kojima's games.

 

[dark10x]

Has anyone noticed the strangely LONG loading time for the codec screen? Not that it bugs me too much, but I wouldn't be surprised if the final game is the same way because the left over ram is saved for the camo/items screen, that's my guess at least.

I still do not have the demo, but that sounds similar to the problems I had with Substance (a DVD9) on an older PS2 of mine. It had a very difficult time with the disc, and codec screens took FOREVER to come up (sometimes even displaying a little spinning disc in the corner).

With the disc read errors you are recieving, perhaps your system is just having a hard time with the disc? Then again, I've heard they are pretty long regardless of the system...so who knows.

 

[6.8]

I don't have that loading problem with my Substance DVD, while I do have it on the MGS3 demo. The loadtimes are absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Brofist]

The codec loading is a demo disc thing for sure. No way it'll be like that final cut.

 

[dark10x]

Well, it probably is a demo disc thing then...

This is super common on XBOX demo discs. Many of them access the disc CONSTANTLY and have tons of akward pauses and such that are not present in the final game. Perhaps the file system in use simply does not work very well with the game? I'm not sure, but it's common for demo discs to cause issues for games that will end up with none.

 

[Ranger X]

Are you a game tester Leguna? you sound like one lol

 

[SolidSnakex]

For those that have played it can you compare the loading time in the demo to the demo at TGS?

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/metalgearsolid3/media.html

Watch "Gameplay Footage 4" at the end of the video Snake goes into the codec. Gameplay Footage 7 has him exiting out of the codec screen.

 

[Lord Error]

You, of course, don't have to hold O and [] buttons at the same time to execute the human shield move. Just let go of O button and quickly press []. You didn't really think Kojima's team are total morons to make you hold those two buttons together?

 

[Simo]

For what it's worth, the playable demo at E3 didn't have these long loading times. Also I agree with the Human Shield comment and I have simliar problems with the Sniper Rifle since you need to Hold R1+Square to shift to Scope View and then keep your fingers on the 2 buttons while trying to hit Triangle and X to Zoom in & out.

 

[cvxfreak]

Thanks for the impressions. MGS3 is my second most anticipated game this year, aside from biohazard 4, and even that might not come out this year.

 

[Wario64]

3. Use the enemy as a human sheild and draw your weapon and attack other enemies (while holding circle, press and hold the square button and enter 1st person view mode while holding R1).

Actually, you can let go of the circle button if you press the square button immediately after performing the CQC move. While holding the square button, press R1 to go into first person mode. This is all done without holding the circle button.

doh beaten to it

 

[Kuroyume]

I'm going to have to track this mag down tomorrow JUST to cut necks open... damn that sounds good...

 

[LAMBO]

It is good

 

[Drexon]

Can someone tell me exactly how to burn that game? (or give me a torrent)

 

[Naked Snake]

I like how you have to hold down the triagle button to skip the entire codec conversation now, this way you can skip the first portions of a conversation and still read latter ones if you choose to, and it still gives you a chance to read the conversation if you accidentally pushed triangle then let go... While in MGS2, if you pushed the button twice, the entire thing skipped automatically and you were screwed.

 

[Leguna]

Marconelly:
Didn't know that, thanks! Now there's another way. I knew there had to be!

adelgary:
True!

 

[Miburou]

The magazine the demo came with lists a lot of neat things you can do in the demo. You can try tossing a grenade through the window of Sokolov's room, cutting the ropes on the bridge, interrogating the guards (one of them will say something interesting), and repeatedly call people on the radio for some weird exchange.

 

[Simo]

The magazine the demo came with lists a lot of neat things you can do in the demo. You can try tossing a grenade through the window of Sokolov's room, cutting the ropes on the bridge, interrogating the guards (one of them will say something interesting), and repeatedly call people on the radio for some weird exchange.

Yeah, the effects of those as follows:
Grenade tossing Sokolov

Spoiler

Toss a grenade through the window on the far side of the building Sokolov is in and you effectively kill him. 'Sokolov is Dead' flashes up with Major Tom grilling you about "Snake! You can't do that! It'll create a Time Paradox!"

The Suspension Bridge

Spoiler

Cutting the ropes just causes the bridge to swing uncontrollably though you can hang and drop onto a branch on the side to find a secret LF. Receiver.

Interogating the Guards

Spoiler

Nothing special. The majority of them go on about how the big Snakes taste the best or Alligator's taste good. The only interesting thing one guard mentions is the underground shaft of the building Sokolov is at.

Call The Boss

Spoiler

I guess the thing OPM is referring to is when The Boss tells you keep all your senses alert, to look out for everything and everyone and the smell too. Snake's reply is kind of a "Uh oh...I can't smell" with The Boss's response being more of a nod to game with "Oh. Well as a gamer you'll just have to keep your eyes open then"

Also, I stand corrected of the issue with the Sniper Rifle. Seems you need only press L1 to switch to Scope View allowing you to easily zoom in and fire with Triangle & X.

 

[Dead]

Yeah, the effects of those as follows:
Grenade tossing Sokolov

Spoiler

Toss a grenade through the window on the far side of the building Sokolov is in and you effectively kill him. 'Sokolov is Dead' flashes up with Major Tom grilling you about "Snake! You can't do that! It'll create a Time Paradox!"

.

oh shit!

Spoiler

MGS3 mission is Time Travel!

 

[Wario64]

oh shit!

Spoiler

MGS3 mission is Time Travel!

Spoiler

It's a VR mission. "Commencing virtuous mission"

 

[Otaking]

Spoiler

Actually, the whole Solkolov rescue mission could just be a prologue to the actual Snake Eater mission. Since it's being told from a future point of view (before the Snake Eater mission, but after the Virtuous Rescue mission), it would technically be a time paradox that way.

 

[Dead]

In any case ill be pretty pissed if there turns out to be no twist whatsoever

 

[Lyte Edge]

Spoiler

Seriously, after seeing the time paradox stuff in the demo, and the line mentioned above in particular, I am beginning to wonder if it really the "same" Solid Snake in this game as the other two, and it's all time travel-related.

But I remain convinced that the entire jungle scenario is just the intro of the game, and after an hour of play time, the game shifts to another location with you taking on the role of some feminine-looking male character in a tight bodysuit again. XD

The one extra I really want in MGS3 is to

Spoiler

be able to play through the game as one of the Ape Escape monkeys.

 

[Naked Snake]

Spoiler

It's a VR mission. "Commencing virtuous mission"

Spoiler

That's what I'm thinking too. It seems that the "Snake" Major Tom is referring to in "Snake! You can't do that!" is Solid Snake, who's VRing to be Big Boss.

 

[Lyte Edge]

Spoiler

That's what I'm thinking too. It seems that the "Snake" Major Tom is referring to in "Snake! You can't do that!" is Solid Snake, who's VRing to be Big Boss.

Spoiler

Then perhaps the "twist," leading to another confushing Kojima story, is that at some point, Snake is really doing the mission isn't VR anymore.

 

[Dead]

November cant come soon enough ;_;

 

[Kraftwerkman]

if you die ... create a time paradox, kill Sokolov... time paradox, obvious, without MGS3 MGS2 could not exist.

 

[Otaking]

if you die ... create a time paradox, kill Sokolov... time paradox, obvious, without MGS3 MGS2 could not exist.

Yes, but how would Major Tom know this? He says it to Snake...not the player...

 

[Simo]

Yes, but how would Major Tom know this? He says it to Snake...not the player...

Spoiler

I think it is just a nod to the gamer that if Snake or Sokolov die in MGS3 then it creates a Paradox in the MGS series and means Solid Snake and the rest of the events in MG, MG2, MGS & MGS2 wouldn't be able to exist.

I similar thing happens when The Boss briefs Snake about Jungle survival and your sense of smell but when Snake responds he doesn't have one, The Boss replies with a "Oh well then you're just going to have to rely on your skills as a gamer then".

As for Virtuous Mission & Snake Eater..

Spoiler

Major Tom mentions that the reason you receive the codename "Naked Snake" is that not only are you "Naked" in terms of equipment and weapons but also "Snake" refers to the Cobra Unit The Boss setup and whom you trained with for 10 years. So Virtuous Rescue Mission is mainly to rescue and bring back Sokolov to the US.

Snake Eater is most likely the second mission where Snake must destroy the Shagohod and stop Volgin, The Boss & the Cobra Unit (Hence the mission codename: Snake Eater).

 

[AssMan]

Two problems I'm having with the game:


1. I really don't like the new camera system even though it seems like the same as MGS3. It feels a little too over the top, and when you lean against things the camera really doesn't zoom in on Snake, and I mean REALLY zoom in.


2. The game feels a little hard on trying to execute moves. I quietly snuck behind an enemy to try and slice his throat, but it seems the guard turns around before I even get a chance to grab him.

 

[Lord Error]

1. I really don't like the new camera system even though it seems like the same as MGS3. It feels a little too over the top, and when you lean against things the camera really doesn't zoom in on Snake, and I mean REALLY zoom in.

I've noticed that the camera zooms on him every time it's actually important i.e, when there are enemies to be see behind. Also, being able to manipulate the camera with the right stick, and lock it into the new position, helps a lot. I thought the whole camera thing is handled incredibly cleverly, making it more useful, but preserving that special cinematic MGS feel.

I quietly snuck behind an enemy to try and slice his throat, but it seems the guard turns around before I even get a chance to grab him.

When you get close to them, you have to use the stalking move (directional pad) which makes you completely silent. I've never had them turn around at the last moment, when I used stalking.

Interogating the Guards

Not sure if it was mentioned, but to interrogate the guards, you have to hold them with the CQC move, then press L3.

 

[Laurent]

Spoiler

I am convinced that the "Time Paradox" speech is a clear message to the player; not the character. This wouldn't be the first time Kojima would play on that level in the series. He did said that there was no time travel, and I tend to exclude the VR Mission theory since I find the use for Solid Snake to do so irrevalent...

 

[AssMan]

I've noticed that the camera zooms on him every time it's actually important i.e, when there are enemies to be see behind. Also, being able to manipulate the camera with the right stick, and lock it into the new position, helps a lot. I thought the whole camera thing is handled incredibly cleverly, making it more useful, but preserving that special cinematic MGS feel.

I feel that the camera system doesn't really fit in jungle. Don't get me wrong, it isn't that bad, but it's hard to say...

(directional pad)

Sweet. Okay I got it!




It seems like I'm not the only one complaining about these problems. I went to Gamefaqs to see if I really was crazy, but a lot of people are having the same issues.

 

[Azrael]

I hate how the game often switches to a forced first person view when you're crawling through bushes. It makes it absolutely impossible to keep aware of your surroundings unless you rise to a crouching position, but even with the right camo on that's enough to alert nearby guards to your position.

 

[evilromero]

So far, MGS3 is okay, but the magic and excitement that was present in the original MGS seems to be gone. I like crawling through the grass to sneak up on guards but I can see myself getting bored of this quickly. Levels/Areas so far are somewhat generic. It still retains the MGS aesthetic thanks to the music and sounds, but it totally lacks the presentation and the unique style of past Snake titles. I hope the forest segement doesn't go on too long because as fresh as the experience is I just can't see myself willing to replay these areas more than twice. And of course, the codec scenes are as long and drawn out as expected. I found myself quick reading the first time through and pretty much just scanning through trite shit about "being a soldier" and such. If this is an indication of later dialogue, well, I'm worried. I thought for the most part that the exposition wasn't as paramount as MGS2, and certainly shorter but it was still just as plain and uninteresting. Also, as pretty as the game is, it doesn't seem to be be on the same level with many other titles that have surpassed the series in visual quality. Character models seem to be filtered through a bevy of visuals effects to hide their flaws. Either that or I'm just spoiled by the games that have come out over the past three years and the MGS2 engine is just showing its age. I was damn excited to have finally gotten the demo after searching all week, but after giving the game a spin for a good few hours my anticipation significantly dropped. The series seems to be getting stale (I hate to think it). But since it's a Metal Gear game I'm going to give it more time and effort so I could forcefully change my opinion. If this were any other game it wouldn't even be a consideration.

 

[Lord Error]

So far, MGS3 is okay, but the magic and excitement that was present in the original MGS seems to be gone. I like crawling through the grass to sneak up on guards but I can see myself getting bored of this quickly. Levels/Areas so far are somewhat generic. It still retains the MGS aesthetic thanks to the music and sounds, but it totally lacks the presentation and the unique style of past Snake titles. I hope the forest segement doesn't go on too long because as fresh as the experience is I just can't see myself willing to replay these areas more than twice.

Wow. I couldn't possibly disagree more. Hell, I should have probaly quoted your whole post. Lucky you if you have played so many titles that surpas MGS3 in the visual quality. I can't think of one, that renders the same type of environment, that I'd be comfortable saying that.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Did anyone notice the 'knocking' sound to alert guards sound the same no matter the surface and not only that but it sounded very fake? I don't know how they can accurately portray the sound of someone knocking on a tree loud enough but what they had wasn't even close. I hope they fix that.

 

[evilromero]

Wow. I couldn't possibly disagree more. Hell, I should have probaly quoted your whole post. Lucky you if you have played so many titles that surpas MGS3 in the visual quality. I can't think of one, that renders the same type of environment, that I'd be comfortable saying that.

Well, it is my opinion on the game. I didn't feel it represented the entire GAF population. And to be certain I've only played through it once, which was enough to discern that it is a solid game but nothing more than that. It is certainly better than the average game, and very polished to boot, but I just felt a little detatched from the whole experience. I'm just comparing this to when I first played the original MGS demo. I was completely captivated from start to finish. In MGS3, I found myself interested, but not nearly on the same level. Good controls and play mechanics as expected, but maybe I'm just getting tired of the series.

 

[dark10x]

Also, as pretty as the game is, it doesn't seem to be be on the same level with many other titles that have surpassed the series in visual quality. Character models seem to be filtered through a bevy of visuals effects to hide their flaws.

Which console games are you talking about that blow away MGS3 while rendering similar environments? I'm curious to know...

That's a pretty interesting point of view on the filters, though. Do you really think they use them to "hide the flaws"? That's kinda sad...

Whenever developers take the time to add in some beautiful post processing effects, you always get people claiming that they are doing it to "hide flaws" or that it makes the game look like shit. When Hitman Contracts came out, people were bitching about the post-processing effects all over the place...

Those types of effects are something that I've always loved.

 

[Solid]

Instead of posting a new thread, here is some new MGS3 screens. Ape hunt!

 

[SolidSnakex]

So does this mean we can stab the apes?

 

[evilromero]

Which console games are you talking about that blow away MGS3 while rendering similar environments? I'm curious to know...

That's a pretty interesting point of view on the filters, though. Do you really think they use them to "hide the flaws"? That's kinda sad...

Whenever developers take the time to add in some beautiful post processing effects, you always get people claiming that they are doing it to "hide flaws" or that it makes the game look like shit. When Hitman Contracts came out, people were bitching about the post-processing effects all over the place...

Those types of effects are something that I've always loved.

Again, my opinion. I don't prefer the way MGS3 uses these visual effects. It doesn't detract from the game significantly, but it is just a point of distraction for me. One thing that MGS can always manage to do though is have at least a good amount of aesthetic appeal. I don't know what it is, possibly the music, or sounds, but despite the game being less impressive than the other three (Twin Snakes included) it still holds some rich fascination with me. I don't want to write it off as nostalgia either, because that would be incorrect.

 

[dark10x]

That's all well and good, but I'm still curious as to which other games you were talking about (console games featuring similar environments that look superior)...

 

[evilromero]

You have to remember, we all share different preferences. I feel a game like The Wind Waker, Ico and Pikmin 2. I don't feel that visuals have to be perfectly real. Instead I feel they need to work in harmony with each other to create a balance of beauty and structure. I think MGS3 tried to do more than it could handle visually and it suffers from that.

 

[Defensor]

Getyou!

 

[dark10x]

You have to remember, we all share different preferences. I feel a game like The Wind Waker, Ico and Pikmin 2. I don't feel that visuals have to be perfectly real. Instead I feel they need to work in harmony with each other to create a balance of beauty and structure. I think MGS3 tried to do more than it could handle visually and it suffers from that.

The way you were talking, it seemed to me that you were suggesting that there are many games which feature similar environments to MGS3 (ie - forests) that looked far more impressive. Wind Waker has virtually nothing in common and shouldn't be compared...

I'm talking about technical aspects here, not just art. I mean, I agree with your statement there. It isn't about realism for me either and those games you listed look beautiful, but I also think MGS3 has a fantastic sense of style.

This isn't like Far Cry or something, which features awesome foliage and forests but has a completely worthless sense of style and art design (the characters and enemies are just so AWFUL looking).

 

[Solid]

You have to remember, we all share different preferences. I feel a game like The Wind Waker, Ico and Pikmin 2. I don't feel that visuals have to be perfectly real. Instead I feel they need to work in harmony with each other to create a balance of beauty and structure. I think MGS3 tried to do more than it could handle visually and it suffers from that.

There you go. I was starting to wonder when you were gonna bring up a GC game.

 

[Miburou]

*takes a deep breath*


evilromero:

Come on, man. You say you were "captivated by the MGS demo from start to finish", yet you've admited that you couldn't bring yourself to continue past the halfway point in that game.
You're trying to make MGS3 sound inferior to MGS2, yet you were describing MGS2 with such adjectives as "repetitive" "bland" "uninspired", etc. Just admit that you've never liked MGS games (although for some reason you were drolling over MGS: TTS?!).

I'm all for different opinions and stuff, but calling the game stale (when the outdoor levels are the biggest addition to the MGS series, not to mention all the new moves, such as CQC), the graphics generic and unimpressive, and using vague words such as "harmony", it just gives me a feeling that you're trying hard to justify something that doesn't really need justification.

I'm not writing this to get you to reply and justify your statements. But regardless of how sincere you might be, right now you sound like a troll who at the same time wants to sound like the most objective person in the world.


*exhales*

 

[Leguna]

Miburou laid the SMACKDOWN on evilromero!

 

[Jagernaut]

Also, as pretty as the game is, it doesn't seem to be be on the same level with many other titles that have surpassed the series in visual quality. Character models seem to be filtered through a bevy of visuals effects to hide their flaws. Either that or I'm just spoiled by the games that have come out over the past three years and the MGS2 engine is just showing its age.

Isn't MGS3 using a new engine, not the MGS2 one? Anyway, i got the demo 2 days ago and it rocks. The jungle looks fantastic, and i really like the close quarters combat and the shotgun. However, the forced 1st person view while crawling through some of the vegetation can be annoying.