fistfulofmetal
Banned
BlockBastard said:I don't believe you.
I've been browsing since spoilers started popping up. Haven't been spoiled once.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
- Status
I've been browsing since spoilers started popping up. Haven't been spoiled once.
Master Pain
Member
Hey, guys. I have a question.
I was just playing MGS1 again and I'm confused about something. So apparently Liquid was a recessive clone and Snake had the superior genes. Then how exactly does Naomi's message of "not letting your genes control your fate" make any sense? Of course Snake was gonna defeat Liquid if he had the better genes and he was the better clone.
Just something that always bugged me.
Answer, may be a MGS1 spoiler? haha:
Snake was the inferior one all along, I think it's revealed in the final conversation with Ocelot and the president (Solidus).
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
SamuraiX- said:Hey, guys. I have a question.
I was just playing MGS1 again and I'm confused about something. So apparently Liquid was a recessive clone and Snake had the superior genes. Then how exactly does Naomi's message of "not letting your genes control your fate" make any sense? Of course Snake was gonna defeat Liquid if he had the better genes and he was the better clone.
Just something that always bugged me.
Actually it turns out
Liquid had the dominant genes. That was a twist at the end. Ironically if you want a better "son/clone" it would be Solidus, he was the perfect build of Solid and Liquid, not having his genes be too dominant or recessive over one another.
bodyofanamerican
Member
That it is, my friend!Kagari said:
I made a deal with myself a while back that I'd pick up a PS3 by hook or by crook when MGS4 released and by the grace of god...poof! $499.99 bundle.
I've actually discussed with a few people who can't understand why in the world I am going to such trouble to play just one game. My main example is that if your favorite show (typically Lost for dudes, Gossip Girl for girls) was going to wrap up their entire storyline, but it was on a proprietary format, wouldn't you buy it? Wouldn't you believe the conversation usually ends in agreement right there more often than not.
Two days left and I've yet to be spoiled. I'm heading to my good luck Target that I got my Wii day 1 at after only an hour of waiting so I think I should be able to nab a bundle. I can't wait to finally play this game, it's the reason I'm getting a PS3 over a 360 this summer. The wait is getting unbearable with so many people getting it early, though.
SamuraiX- said:Hey, guys. I have a question.
I was just playing MGS1 again and I'm confused about something. So apparently Liquid was a recessive clone and Snake had the superior genes. Then how exactly does Naomi's message of "not letting your genes control your fate" make any sense? Of course Snake was gonna defeat Liquid if he had the better genes and he was the better clone.
Just something that always bugged me.
EDIT: BEATEN
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Ploid 3.0 said:
I hear ya. I was going to trade GTA towards MGS, but I broke down and got the MGS collectors edition a few weeks ago even though I'd played them before. I needed something to quench the hype. I did get $38 trade in value for GTA at least. The multiplayer for that just wasn't worth keeping for me.
AS far as the Civ demo--tonight is the first night I haven't played it for about 3 hours since it came out. It is really frustrating though, just as your city starts to get really bad ass, the demo ends. I recommend doing the tech tree so that you get navigation as quickly as possible, then discover Atlantis which gives you all kinds of bonuses.
Master Pain said:
Huh?
but Liquid clearly says that Snake was dominant and he received all the flawed recessive genes... I remember the phone call, but maybe he was just talking about his genes? And it looked like Liquid was always winning anyway, so does it depend on their genes or what kind of clone they are?
Lion Heart
Banned
If I had a vagina it would be so wet right now
bodyofanamerican
Member
SamuraiX- said:
That was the point of the experiment. Solidus/Ocelot told Liquid he was the inferior one to piss him off and see if his dominant genes would pull him through and make him the victor regardless. They didn't. Thus, your genes don't determine your fate.
MiamiWesker
Member
Darkpen said:
"You Knew?!
lol, its been up. People stopped buying or something.AgentOtaku said:
i_am_not_jon_ames said:That was the point of the experiment. Solidus/Ocelot told Liquid he was the inferior one to piss him off and see if his dominant genes would pull him through and make him the victor regardless. They didn't. Thus, your genes don't determine your fate.
Well, I wouldn't say that... Remember that Liquid defeated Snake in almost every encounter, besides when he fought Snake in the Hind D. FoxDie was the thing that killed Liquid, not Snake.
MiamiWesker
Member
SamuraiX- said:
No, Snake won every fight until the end.
bodyofanamerican
Member
You're just trying to get us to 10,000, aren't you? :lolSamuraiX- said:
AgentOtaku
Member
Darkpen said:
yeah I'm pretty suprised as well....that or Konami just never updated the page or something
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
BruceLeeRoy said:
:lol :lol Shit I was beaten and its my damn image :lol
Pop On Arrival
Banned
i_am_not_jon_ames said:
the jig is up :lol
MiamiWesker said:
Wtf? No he didn't. Liquid had the defeated Snake every time, he just chose not to kill him. The Metal Gear battle, Liquid ultimately won. Snake ended up winning the fist fight and Liquid had Snake trapped under his jeep with a FAMAS aimed at his face, and FOXDIE took prevented him from finishing Snake.
MiamiWesker
Member
SamuraiX- said:
This has to be a joke. Liquid won the Metal Gear fight, so thats why MG was destroyed? Just cause Liquid was not knocked unconsious does not mean he won. Same with the jeep thing, it was a random accident, Liquid was just lucky to come out unpinned.
MiamiWesker
Member
Bigmac573 said:
Of course it will be. No doubt in my mind.
Pop On Arrival
Banned
Bigmac573 said:
this game is gonna be shit.
MiamiWesker said:
Yeah, that's why Liquid had Snake tied up and unconscious on top of Metal Gear REX in the end, right? And the fact of the matter is with the jeeps is that Liquid bested Snake. He was as fucked up as Snake was but still managed to hold the advantage in the end.
bodyofanamerican
Member
SamuraiX- said:
/rolls sleeves up
Snake fights Liquid for the first time in the Hind D- Snake wins
Then MG Rex- Snake blows up Metal Gear (with Gray Fox's help admittedly) and wins
Fistfight on top of Rex- Liquid falls off, Snake wins
Jeep Chase- it's a draw. i'll give you that.
Post crash- Liquid gets hit with FOXDIE.
It's not that Liquid kept winning. Quite the opposite. Snake kept beating him and it pissed him off more and more each time because he thought Snake was inferior to him when he actually wasn't.
Then MG Rex- Snake blows up Metal Gear (with Gray Fox's help admittedly) and wins
Fistfight on top of Rex- Liquid falls off, Snake wins
Jeep Chase- it's a draw. i'll give you that.
Post crash- Liquid gets hit with FOXDIE.
It's not that Liquid kept winning. Quite the opposite. Snake kept beating him and it pissed him off more and more each time because he thought Snake was inferior to him when he actually wasn't.
MiamiWesker
Member
SamuraiX- said:
Again, its cause the Metal Gear blowing up knocks Snake out. Did Liquid unleash his super MG exploding attack on Snake? No, he had nothing to do with it. His sucking caused Snake to be knocked out by accident.
Same with the jeep, Liquid bested Snake cause he knows how to crash better... it makes no sense.
Liquid died of foxdie
It is the greatest game for a couple of weeks at least. After that people start coming out of their shelters and if there are flaws in it, they'll be revealed.
Personally it's pretty emotional game so I wouldn't be surprised if it would rise to the top podium.
Conrad Link
Member
darkjacob said:
I'm from New Zealand, it wasn't 'broken' as such... just slipped a copy sort of thing lol. So no officially still Wednesday night/Thursday release at the moment.
i_am_not_jon_ames said:
Dude, that makes no sense.
Just because Snake blew up REX, WITH FOX's HELP, does not mean he was victorious. Snake was left unconscious. Liquid seized his body and tied him up. He could have killed him anytime he wanted. And if MGS4 is any indication, it would appear that REX wasn't fully destroyed. And how could the jeep chase end in a draw when Liquid was the one with the FAMAS pointed at Snake in the end? It looks like Snake might have been the inferior clone, but he had the better genes. But it didn't matter in the end.
A bit of MGS2 here in the spoiler:SamuraiX- said:
If you played MGS2 the Patriots talk about S3 plan or in other words Selection for Societal Sanity. Using special circumstances they are able to shape a soldier independent of his genes. Kojima tried to make it sound like Shadow Moses was also was part of S3 plan to create the genome soldier or at least collect data on the progress, which indeed is reflected in MGS4 with PMCs (id tagged soldiers, id tagged weapons, all part of control). He didn't write MGS2 before hand so the connection is a bit broken.
The Patriots after gathering all the data made the conclusion that genes mean nothing when it comes to creating the Ultimate Soldier, it's that person's traits, and if they fall under a certain criteria, the Patriots can easily create that soldier. MGS2 was the experiment, Raiden was the subject.
The Patriots after gathering all the data made the conclusion that genes mean nothing when it comes to creating the Ultimate Soldier, it's that person's traits, and if they fall under a certain criteria, the Patriots can easily create that soldier. MGS2 was the experiment, Raiden was the subject.
MiamiWesker said:
Yeah, last time I checked, Liquid was also involved in that explosion, and he was actually INSIDE REX. Snake just couldn't take the explosion and Liquid could. And Liquid had very much to do with the jeep crash at the end. He was the one that plowed into Snake at the end and caused them to flip. Both Snakes were affected by the crash, but Liquid was able to pull himself together and gain the upper-hand while Snake couldn't.
SamuraiX- said:
I don't know why you're so fixated on the FAMAS. You have this all wrong dude, completely wrong. Snake bested Liquid in every fight even though Snake was the inferior clone. Liquid had nothing to do with Snake being knocked unconscious from the MG explosion. The whole tying up thing was a plot device just to throw Meryl back into the situation. As was the ultimate outcome of the jeep chase, so Liquid would be killed by Foxdie instead of Snake. It's not because Liquid beat him, far from it.
MiamiWesker
Member
SamuraiX- said:
He was able to pull together cause his jeep just so happend to not be on top of him. Unless Liquid knew exactly how to bump Snake so that his Jeep would flip onto him pinning him down, he had nothing to do with Snake being pinned it was all luck.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Goodness gracious.SamuraiX- said:
Revolver Ocelot said:
I would find the call on youtube, but if anyone thinks i'm searching the words "metal gear" and "ending" right now, you're crazy.
I don't consider Liquid stronger because
he was fighting Solid Snake with a giant mecha while the latter had some help from Gray Fox. The metal gear is a much better weapon. Liquid was also more familiar with the venue => He had home ground advantages. The fact that he was in MG while it exploded may mean he got into some sort of escape pod/exit in time, while his brother had nothing to hold on to.
I can't remember the jeep chase anymore but the guy crashing into another vehicle should be better prepared because he knows the exact timing of the impact. Perhaps they are roughly equal but Solid Snake is more adaptable. He fought in unfamiliar grounds and were able to take FoxDie until MGS4.
I can't remember the jeep chase anymore but the guy crashing into another vehicle should be better prepared because he knows the exact timing of the impact. Perhaps they are roughly equal but Solid Snake is more adaptable. He fought in unfamiliar grounds and were able to take FoxDie until MGS4.
RobertM said:
Right, of course. But the theme of MGS2 was MEME and the idea of manipulation, while the theme of MGS1 was GENE and not letting your genetic blueprint rule yourself. So isn't that all just irrelevant in this discussion?
DrBo42 said:
You could argue that it really didn't matter if Liquid had anything to down with Snake being knocked unconscious. The fact of the matter is that Liquid was able to withstand the explosion while Snake couldn't, making Liquid the superior clone in a sense. Also, what do you mean by tying Snake up was a plot device? If Snake acted like anything he did during the game, he could have undoubtedly just sat there and listened to Liquid's speech, whether he was bound or not. I don't think I understand your last point with the jeep chase. The fact is that Liquid was left standing and Snake wasn't.
MiamiWesker said:
We don't really know if Liquid was bound under his jeep or not. He could have been and managed to break loose, and Snake wasn't. And Liquid could have easily aimed his Jeep in a specific manner to place Snake in the position he ended up in.
- Status