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[Laurent]

Holy shit.

The OP lives up to the production values of the game.

This!!!

 

[Walshicus]

Did people who defend the review as being "fair" or written by a "non fan" even read it? It's obviously a rant, he hates cut scenes, but won't discuss the new amazing gameplay.

Maybe he didn't feel there was any? Who knows.

Don't we go through this same shit with every big release?

 

[dark10x]

multiple installs throughout the game, wtf?

how many more gigs is that on top of the mandatory 5?


konami and eurogamer suck at next gen.

I suppose the game is larger than we had anticipated. People were suggesting that, with a 5gb installation, the rest of the disc would probably just consist of audio or something. However, the game is clearly larger than that and they do not wish to stream data from the disc (speed issue?).

It seems reasonable to me that the game itself is approach 20gb (or more). Of course, we don't really have any data on how well this data was organized and compressed. While I don't expect a port of the game, this multiple install thing seems as if it would lend itself to a multi-disc experience. That is, in place of these mini-installations, they could ask you to swap discs. So, I suppose a 360 version would likely ship on 4-5 DVDs. The game is clearly divided up as it is, so it would probably work. Again, I don't expect that it will occur, but at least we can see that 1) the game is actually much larger than a DVD and 2) it would still work on DVD due to the way it is divided up.

Did people who defend the review as being "fair" or written by a "non fan" even read it? It's obviously a rant, he hates cut scenes, but won't discuss the new amazing gameplay.

Yet the review was still favorable in the end. If the reviewer was that negative and still managed to enjoy the game, I'd say that's a great sign.

 

[Pop On Arrival]

Maybe he didn't feel there was any? Who knows.

Don't we go through this same shit with every big release?

according to the people that have actually read the review, what makes the EG review stand-out isn't the score, but the fact that the reviewer complains about a bunch of stuff but fails to go gives valid explanations as to why they're worth complaining about in the first place.

 

[Ynos Yrros]

Maybe he didn't feel there was any? Who knows.

Don't we go through this same shit with every big release?

It's a review for a big publication.

Fact that it's a big release should push even the point of writing a good detailed review even further.

EGM fails and shows obvious bias. And I'm not even bashing the score itself, it's the review that is laughable. At least they are consistent.

Yet the review was still favorable in the end. If the reviewer was that negative and still managed to enjoy the game, I'd say that's a great sign.

Even if the game got a 10 from them, it would still be a hilariously bad review.

 

[Yoboman]

Maybe he didn't feel there was any? Who knows.

Don't we go through this same shit with every big release?

Yeah, and there's always the ones like you trying to justify the review. Rarely are they even fans of the game either, but they feel the need to justify it

 

[Y2Kev]

It's a review for a big publication.

Fact that it's a big release should push even the point of writing a good detailed review even further.

EGM fails and shows obvious bias. And I'm not even bashing the score itself, it's the review that is laughable. At least they are consistent.

Um, do you mean Eurogamer? What did EGM give it?

 

[Rainy Dog]

It's funny, if the Eurogamer review had come out a month later after several more of what I'm guessing will be mostly 9.5+ review scores, it would have lost a lot of it's impact. It would have been the statistical outlier, rather than a statistical driver.

I'm not specifically questioning the integrity of Eurogamer -- at least not any more than the integrity of IGN or OPM lol); however, I am questioning (read: not condeming!) the integrity of any review that comes out 12+ days before the game's launch and is in the first 10% of reviews.

Questios we should be asking are:

Did someone at IGN make score promises to receive relative exclusivity for MGS4's review?

Did someone at Eurogamer make the connection that giving MGS4 an 8/10 would make them a zillion dollars in advertising revenue? Did they realize that this zillion dollars would go bye-bye if their review wasn't one of the first 3 on metacritic (i.e. Did they realize that they had to rush the review out if they didn't want people to ignore their score -- no one is going to pay any mind to an 8 in a sea of 10's)

Did someone at Official PlayStation magazine...I'll stop there.

Reviews from the major media sites are VERY LIKELY driven by some agenda that run the gamut from trying to please fanboys/fan bases to trying to stir up controversy and website hits. Just saying...

Another question :-

Why have Eurogamer chose a person who obviously has issues with the majority of MGS games' acquired trademarks - and was always going to let those issues influence his opinion before he even set hands on it - review what is easily the most important and significant PS3 game to date? I personally think it speaks volumes about Eurogamer and would question their stance with the PS3, if not integrity, based on that alone. Whilst its good to not see another gushing, hyperbole of a review designed around boxart one-liners, the reviewer clearly does not want to appreciate the game for what it is....what Metal Gear Solids are.

 

[Lonestar]

I read something in MGS2, it was a short story written thru the perspectıve of Nastasha Romanenko. Her point of view when the Shadow Moses incident happened and some stuff afterwards. But can`t really remember much of it, so no idea if we see her back.

Heck, I'm sure there's somewhere in MGS2 where the Informant that told Snake and Otacon about either the Tanker or Big Shell, was "Liquid" as in through Ocelot. It's in my memory from somewhere, but I'm not sure which section of that game it was.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

Heck, I'm sure there's somewhere in MGS2 where the Informant that told Snake and Otacon about either the Tanker or Big Shell, was "Liquid" as in through Ocelot. It's in my memory from somewhere, but I'm not sure which section of that game it was.

It was

Spoiler

On top of Arsenal, when Ocelot reveals his true intentions to Solidus. He takes over Ray, starts firing shit at Fortune, and then Liquid takes over and reveals that little tidbit.

 

[Ynos Yrros]

Um, do you mean Eurogamer? What did EGM give it?

Sorry, it's Eurogamer, I usually use EGM as an acronym for them.

How can someone read the conclusion:

You're sorry to see Snake go. But should you be? Guns of the Patriots is a frustrating, fractured game that turns Metal Gear Solid's world upside down several times over, but never changes it. It just burrows deeper into what fans love and detractors hate than ever before, and it will make few converts. It's a crying shame, given how many genuinely classic gaming moments there are here, given the countless exquisite creative touches, but Metal Gear Solid 4 is its own worst enemy. You could not ask for a funnier, cleverer, more ambitious or inspired or over-the-top conclusion to the Metal Gear Solid series, but it's definitely time to move on.

And not realize how biased the reviewer is? Detractors hate than ever before. Guy must have been outraged about how good this game is.

 

[FirewalkR]

I'm really really interested in knowing what score EDGE will give the game. I'm hoping it's the 2nd 10 this year, and all of this shall be forgotten. :lol

Sorry, it's Eurogamer, I usually use EGM as an acronym for them.

Please refrain from doing that, for obvious reasons.

 

[Slamo]

No matter how you feel about the game, going to metacritic and seeing this as a summary for the Euroganer review is odd given the score they gave the game:



That doesn't sound like an 80/100 game to me.

Disclaimer: I'm not commenting on the game itself, just that the comment doesn't match the score. It's completely inflammatory, and I'm sure with good reason.

You don't have a PS3.

You never played a MGS game before.

What's your contribution to this thread?

 

[Pop On Arrival]

I'm really really interested in knowing what score EDGE will give the game. I'm hoping it's the 2nd 10 this year, and all of this shall be forgotten. :lol

Edge has a history of being very harsh on the Metal Gear Solid games, so don't expect too much.

 

[KolosLazar16]

The multiple installs is fine I guess for the first playthrough, but havent to wait through that install every fucking time I replay the game is going to SUCK. (unless it's a one time thing then my bad!)

 

[Mromson]

It pains me to read http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/metalgearsolid4gunsofthepatriots]Metacritic now that EuroGamer placed a 80/100 there. Which puts the average score at 95 should it get another 100/100. Needless to say, this is the last time I ever read anything from EuroGamer.

But enough about EuroGamer (ban that bloody site -_-). Lets talk MGS4!

 

[TheRagnCajun]

The real question is, what does Yahtzee think?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

It pains me to read http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/metalgearsolid4gunsofthepatriots]Metacritic now that EuroGamer placed a 80/100 there. Which puts the average score at 95 should it get another 100/100. Needless to say, this is the last time I ever read anything from EuroGamer.

But enough about EuroGamer (ban that bloody site -_-). Lets talk MGS4!

Le sigh.

 

[DCharlie]

then can you please explain why the 10 from OPM, the 10 from Gamepro and a 9.9 from IGN is not a fair review since you are suggesting that out of the 4 legitimate reviews thus far, the fairest review in your opinion is the one that has the lowest scored?

this is the crux of the problem right here - people are trying to 'legitimize' scores without playing the game! on -both- sides.

the thing is NO ONE (or very few people on GAF) can call it eitehr way outside of gut feeling which basically isn't worth anything.

 

[Mash]

Perhaps the installs are during cutscenes? Or is it like an actual install/progress screen? Either way, it's only a couple of minutes.

 

[Y2Kev]

I'm really tired of reviewers falling back on the lazy generalization that all MGS fans want 900 hour cutscenes and the like. I play MGS for the gameplay. I enjoy the gameplay.

Please stop pigeonholing me so that you can shoot off a little clever conclusion about how self-indulgent the game is in your last paragraph.

 

[Mromson]

The real question is, what does Yahtzee think?

I hope he cuts MGS4 a new one Gonna be hilarious :lol

 

[FabCam]

The real question is, what does Yahtzee think?

If there's any review that I would value less than the EG review, it would be Yahtzee.

 

[Slamo]

this is the crux of the problem right here - people are trying to 'legitimize' scores without playing the game! on -both- sides.

the thing is NO ONE (or very few people on GAF) can call it eitehr way outside of gut feeling which basically isn't worth anything.

It's not gut feeling... it's Kojima.

 

[diffusionx]

I read something in MGS2, it was a short story written thru the perspectıve of Nastasha Romanenko. Her point of view when the Shadow Moses incident happened and some stuff afterwards. But can`t really remember much of it, so no idea if we see her back.

I saw that when I booted up MGS2 for the first time, it was after the 120-ish screen journal from a conspiracy theorist who flopped onto Shadow Moses in a tuna. It was a 324-screen book written by Natasha about Shadow Moses. I decided not to read it, because I just lived through Shadow Moses, but I didn't know it has other info...

Why have Eurogamer chose a person who obviously has issues with the majority of MGS games' acquired trademarks - and was always going to let those issues influence his opinion before he even set hands on it - review what is easily the most important and significant PS3 game to date? I personally think it speaks volumes about Eurogamer and would question their stance with the PS3, if not integrity, based on that alone. Whilst its good to not see another gushing, hyperbole of a review designed around boxart one-liners, the reviewer clearly does not want to appreciate the game for what it is....what Metal Gear Solids are.

The thing is, they aren't obligated to get a fanboy to review the game. If the guy feels the "MGS Style" clearly hinders the game experience then he has a right to say it. It may have been better had EG done the thing they did with Forza 2, get 2 people with different tastes to review, but I wouldn't say giving the review to a non-fan is the wrong thing to do.

 

[Foxtastical]

Interesting. It appears that Oli Welsh from Eurogamer writes alot about MMOs yet he did the review for MGS4.

I don't mind getting that perspective on MGS4.

 

[hulot]

Gekko
In addition, they expel an unknown green liquid while roaring mooing savagely in certain situations.

Fixed? :lol

 

[RamzaIsCool]

The real question is, what does Yahtzee think?

Japanese quirkyness, sometimes puzzling design choices and a semi-incomprehensible storylıne....the dude is going to have a field day judgıng by his previous reviews. But then again he really loves the Silent Hill series for all the good reasons, so maybe he likes the MGS series too. Anyway it`s gonna be a fun review.

 

[Ynos Yrros]

Interesting. It appears that Oli Welsh from Eurogamer writes alot about MMOs yet he did the review for MGS4.

I don't mind getting that perspective on MGS4.

There is no perspective, it's a 3 page long rant with asking Snake to never come back at the end.

EG is fighting hard for web hits.

 

[zoukka]

I'm getting this strong urge to kill when I see the whine flood from the EG review.

 

[Lince]

paging TTP to comment on the loading/installing issues

 

[indie85]

Eurogamer gave Resistence a bloody 6/10 ffs! I dont know why anyone gives them any weight.

 

[DCharlie]

paging TTP to comment on the loading/installing issues

Q: is eurogamer the only review to mention this ?

Eurogamer gave Resistence a bloody 6/10 ffs! I dont know why anyone gives them any weight.

if you want to play that game we can discredit every game review source on the planet. I'm sure we can find one off target review per site.

 

[Pop On Arrival]

Q: is eurogamer the only review to mention this ?



if you want to play that game we can discredit every game review source on the planet. I'm sure we can find one off target review per site.

as far as I know, yes.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Sounds like a fresh point of view, unlike the usual adorations good games get from most sites.

On the other hand; they gave GTAIV 10/10 while it's just as much a very, very polished repetition of the older games.

I told you so many times that the reviews-system is corrupted as hell. But nobody really believed me. I think that now many people will start to open their eyes.

 

[anachronous_one]

Epic OP(s)!

If only there were a mandate to entirely exclude disscussion of review scores on the boards. I mean, then people would have to resort to talking about --- gasp --- the game itself rather than a score being too high/too low/a product of moneyhats.

see i thought i knew nearly everything about MGS story, but i thought that only snake and octagon were in philanthropy

 

[zoukka]

Eurogamer gave Resistence a bloody 6/10 ffs! I dont know why anyone gives them any weight.

Read the review. It was spot on.


And they mention some kind of animation during these loadings so I think they do exist.

 

[Walshicus]

I told you so many times that the reviews-system is corrupted as hell. But nobody really believed me. I think that now many people will start to open their eyes.

Sir, I can not recall a single time you have commented on present game review scoring regimes. Not one time.

Spoiler

 

[Durante]

The worst thing you can do to Eurogamer (and all the other sites for that matter) is simply not visiting them. Don't reward their (probably intentional) fanboy fishing with ad impressions.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

huh, with all the hype I thought for sure that we would see endless 10/10's.

I wonder if the GTAIV hoopla is backfiring and causing lower scores for MGS4...? :lol

The GTAIV overrating was and still IS a scandal. Maybe the gaming journalism has received the message.

 

[AndyIsTheMoran]

Epic OP(s)!

If only there were a mandate to entirely exclude disscussion of review scores on the boards. I mean, then people would have to resort to talking about --- gasp --- the game itself rather than a score being too high/too low/a product of moneyhats.

lol whoops

 

[Rainy Dog]

The thing is, they aren't obligated to get a fanboy to review the game. If the guy feels the "MGS Style" clearly hinders the game experience then he has a right to say it. It may have been better had EG done the thing they did with Forza 2, get 2 people with different tastes to review, but I wouldn't say giving the review to a non-fan is the wrong thing to do.

The two people from both sides of the fence would've been a solution. But my impression is that they have chosen someone who is clearly a non-fan and was never going to be able to get over the issues he has with the love or hate fundamentals of MGS games. Which makes the review largely irrelevant to actual fans and speaks volumes about Eurogamer considering this is the biggest and most important PS3 game to date.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Wow, at the people not getting the argument against EG. The content is being discussed, not the score itself. And those just writing EG completely off are fucking dumbwits too.

 

[DCharlie]

The two people from both sides of the fence would've been a solution. But my impression is that they have chosen someone who is clearly a non-fan and was never going to be able to get over the issues he has with the love or hate fundamentals of MGS games. Which makes the review largely irrelevant to actual fans and speaks volumes about Eurogamer considering this is the biggest and most important PS3 game to date.

yup, multiple reviewers has to be the key really.

i've actually been an advocate of having 1 pro, 1 anti, 1 neutral.
if you can swing the anti character up then you know the game is good!

however, i'm not sure how having a hard core fan of something review the game solves anything. We'd just get 10/10 for pretty much everything in that case.

hence - multiple reviewers is the only way

 

[Lince]

Q: is eurogamer the only review to mention this ?

http://www.meristation.com/v3/des_analisis.php?pic=PS3&id=cw483c556696c1c&idj=cw42893e02385df&idp=&tipo=art&c=1&pos=1

presentan ligeras cargas intermedias al avanzar entre diferentes áreas, pero son escasas y rápidas virtud a la precarga que se realiza en el disco duro antes de cada nivel

translation: infrequent but fast loading between areas since there's already an installation in place before each mission.

La carga que PlayStation 3 debe soportar en MGS4 es titánica, y no sólo a nivel gráfico. Esto hace que el juego se resienta en diferentes momentos de estrés, haciéndose evidente en bajadas de frame rate

tr: MGS4 puts a titanic CPU/GPU stress on the PS3 hardware, resulting in slowdown (throughout) the game.

Resulta curioso que cuando Snake se encuentra en pequeños espacios cerrados o al activar la visión nocturna, los FPS suban por encima de los 30 normales. Y aquí es imposible obviar las conocidas declaraciones de Hideo Kojima respecto a las limitaciones tecnológicas en el título, que van más allá de la consola de Sony y se hacen extensivos a la nueva generación.

tr: funny that whenever the game takes part in closed indoors areas or you turn on the night vision the fps quickly go way up past the regular 30fps, Kojima's coments on "next-gen" limitations (not only PS3 hardware) come to mind immediately

el título corre a 720p de forma nativa con reescalado a 1080

720p native, scaled to 1080i/p.

 

[diffusionx]

The two people from both sides of the fence would've been a solution. But my impression is that they have chosen someone who is clearly a non-fan and was never going to be able to get over the issues he has with the love or hate fundamentals of MGS games. Which makes the review largely irrelevant to actual fans and speaks volumes about Eurogamer considering this is the biggest and most important PS3 game to date.

Do actual fans need a review to tell them this is a game worth getting, though?

If anything, this review will scare away haters before they fall for the hype and end up polluting the internets with "OMG CUT SCENEZ" garbage.

 

[Ynos Yrros]

yup, multiple reviewers has to be the key really.

i've actually been an advocate of having 1 pro, 1 anti, 1 neutral.
if you can swing the anti character up then you know the game is good!

however, i'm not sure how having a hard core fan of something review the game solves anything. We'd just get 10/10 for pretty much everything in that case.

hence - multiple reviewers is the only way

Again, no one is arguing about the score. It's the text that leaves a massive distaste in my mouth.

He pretty much starts off with saying that Kojima is behind when it comes to game making. I played MGO, and I can't see how it is behind any game in terms of it's mechanics/controls.

Then he doesn't detail any gameplay mechanic, none, nadda. At the end he says that the series should be discontinued, and manages to squeeze an editing bug in.

What I got from the review is that the game is so good that it make people furious, and that EG is the opposite of professional gaming publication.

If anything, this review will scare away haters before they fall for the hype and end up polluting the internets with "OMG CUT SCENEZ" garbage.

Game has amazing gameplay and online component, and is longer than 95% of the games, even discounting the cut scenes.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Do actual fans need a review to tell them this is a game worth getting, though?

If anything, this review will scare away haters before they fall for the hype and end up polluting the internets with "OMG CUT SCENEZ" garbage.

What.

Diff.

What are you doing here?

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=189843&site=psm&skip=yes

Hello, Early reviews for MGS4 are creeping out on the internet and, like GTAIV, it's another near-perfect whitewash. "Without a doubt, one of the greatest games of all time", screams US magazine Gamepro, "Every once in a long time, a game will come along that changes all the rules... and MGS4's potential influence on the current state of gaming is nothing short of tectonic". Exciting? Yes. Accurate? No - it's total bullshit.

We've finished MGS4. Twice. And while it's an incredible achievement, it's no more a seismic leap for games, than GTAIV was from GTA: San Andreas, or GTA3. It's merely - and we say this with a hefty pinch of salt - a wonderful next-gen polishing of a largely last-gen experience. The gameplay mechanics - while surely the series' most polished - are instantly recognisable, and despite reasonably freeform opening levels, it's not a shock reimagining of the series. 'Shocking' or 'tectonic' gameplay would have been fully destructible levels with truly 'nowhere to hide', as once billed. Or *huge* open world crowds where you need to use disguise, or body language, or real voice reading via an audio mic, to blend in seamlessly - but despite some excellent stealth sections, MGS4's best efforts are 'only' a polishing of MGS3's camouflage-led jungle sneaking; bar an unexpected, if fairly linear, stealth episode half-way through.

To use a recent example, was GTA4 everything you'd been promised by 99% of the world's media? As incredible as it is/was - probably not. Folk were falling over themselves to award it perfect 100%, or 10/10, scores, setting expectations at ridiculous levels. Amazingly, our score of 96% was the world's lowest for a number of weeks, which truly beggars belief.

We're not saying MGS4 isn't brilliant - it clearly is - but temper those expectations with reality. While its individual components are hard to fault, the bigger question is whether it holds together as a whole - and that's an issue we'll attempt to resolve in our review, in PSM102, on-sale next Thursday. Truth is, MGS4 is so complex, nuanced and indulgent, it's too early to say whether it's the work of genius or madness, or - most accurately - both. The trick's whether Kojima's got the balance right from scene-to-scene.

One thing's sure: MGS4's certainly the most interesting game of 2008, and while we only know a select few who've finished it, we've already had in-depth, half-hour minimum, heated debates with all of them about what the game truly means. And, in fairness, we're one of the most dissenting voices - despite thinking MGS4 is incredible.

Can't wait to find out what you think of it - we'll kick off the debate in a forthcoming issue, with amazing prizes for those who can provide the most accurate description of its themes/worth. *Amazing* prizes - if not 'tectonic' - but you'll see. With just over two weeks to UK launch, the countdown has begun.

What are you curently thinking about MGS4?

Well said. The 10 should be reserved to games that can be considered as gaming revolutions. This don't mean they're not **ing great games. But please, let's start controlling the hype of high-profile games !

 

[Tom Penny]

The game is not a 10 and it's probably not an 8 either. It probably lies in between like 99% of games that are considered "great" but reviewers say otherwise. I play maybe one game a year I consider a 9 if i'm lucky. This year it might be 2 9's. GTA IV definitely was not a 10 but it's pretty damn good so overall probably a 9. Hopefully this is the same which is more than enough in the world of non inspiring , non ambitious games which makes up 90% of all games. Just for the record I don't feel any game is worth a 10 unless it was really good and you got it free