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[BlueTsunami]

On my way now. On Chapter 2. I'll share the save with whoever wants it once I'm done.

How are you dealing with rushing through acts without getting caught and no recovery items? I'm playing on Liquid Easy for the

Spoiler

Bandana and Stealth Suit

and I can't imagine how Big Boss mode will rape my face.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Ok, I see tons of discussion about the plot but here are my questions...

Spoiler

Was EVA just playing along if she was really working with Ocelot? I don't understand. Really, I don't.

Was Liquid Ocelot playing along the entire time or did he have bigger ideas after the Patriots' AI was destroyed? Was this whole thing he orchestrated a facade? Liquid is not a morally sound individual, even if his true intention was to simply destroy the Patriots, if he had his way, the game wouldn't have ended like it did with Sunny's virus restoring order.

Why exactly did Drebin inject FOXDIE into people who WERE the Patriots if he was also working for them? Because he hated them, I assume?

Can it be assumed that the new Foxdie in Solid Snake combined with the old Foxdie is basically negating the deadly effects, and all that's slowing Snake down is how his cloned body naturally ages at an accelerated rate?

Please someone help me make sense of all this stuff.

Spoiler

ill answer this one.

Yes, snake is no longer a walking WMD. He will live on for a solid 6 months alongside his friends before he dies. During this time he will also have a fivesome with the B and B unit.

 

[Crayon]

the number of people i've heard in here say that this is the greatest game ever, after beating it, is pretty damn crazy.

hopefully it's not just the new car smell and this does stand the test of time. because it's been a really great experience so far.

No. This shit is on another level. I am not alone when I say that it is shocking to experience what this game does firsthand. I'd like to think I know the difference between a "very very good game" and a "breakthrough". I don't expect everyone to see how far ahead of it's time this game is, but many people on here do.

 

[SnakeXs]

Spoiler

This is an order of magnitude larger though. Eva lasted about as long as Liquid did with the last foxdie. Enough for a meet and greet, a fight, and a chase. DARPA chief went down really quickly too, compared to Ocelot, who fought at the sewer, then jumped on a boat. Then had a drawn-out showdown. Then eventually got onboard a new ship. Then ran off to Shadow Moses. Then survive Shadow moses, get onboard a ship again, head out to see, get caught, drag it out some more...you get the picture.

Hell, was there even an indication of it? A sound effect or something? Because all I heard was Snake beating the shit out of the guy.

Well don't forget that

Spoiler

the new was just starting to eat the old, so it wasn't totally mature. Plus Eva was in a weakened state, whereas Ocelot was beyond healthy.

 

[TTP]

If the additional stuff had been as fun and interesting as the first two acts, (and Act 3 almost was- I have no qualms with it really outside of how

Spoiler

uninteresting the boss fight was and how large the story-to-game ratio was

) then yeah, I wouldn't have minded the variety.

Opinions I guess. Act 3 was probably the best for me. Act 4 was simply amazing as u couldn't rely on tranqs and stuff to sneak through undetected like u can easy do in the other acts. Also depends on how u approach them I suppose.

 

[jonabbey]

I can't help but laugh now that I think about

Spoiler

ocelot wriggling his arm about in MGS 2 SOL pretending it was possessed.

Lesson to me: Spoiler tags in the MGS4 thread, unlike in the vast majority of NeoGAF, really do hide spoilers.

 

[Ferrio]

Ok, I see tons of discussion about the plot but here are my questions...

Spoiler

Was EVA just playing along if she was really working with Ocelot? I don't understand. Really, I don't.

Was Liquid Ocelot playing along the entire time or did he have bigger ideas after the Patriots' AI was destroyed? Was this whole thing he orchestrated a facade? Liquid is not a morally sound individual, even if his true intention was to simply destroy the Patriots, if he had his way, the game wouldn't have ended like it did with Sunny's virus restoring order.

Why exactly did Drebin inject FOXDIE into people who WERE the Patriots if he was also working for them? Because he hated them, I assume?

Can it be assumed that the new Foxdie in Solid Snake combined with the old Foxdie is basically negating the deadly effects, and all that's slowing Snake down is how his cloned body naturally ages at an accelerated rate?

Please someone help me make sense of all this stuff.

Spoiler

-Most likely Eva was working along the entire time, otherwise it wouldn't make sense..

-It was never Liquid, Liquid died in MGS1... he really never returned. Ocelot just used psychotherapy on himself to convince himself that he was Liquid, though he still retained a bit of his former self. He eventually reverts totally back at the end of game. His only goal was to destroy the AIs, nothing sinister.

-The only one drebin injected was snake, and I'm guessing that was a straight order from the patriots to keep snake alive a little longer.

-THe new foxdie took over the old one. Even so if somehow snake lived past the whole old age thing, the new foxdie would eventually mutate and become infectious. But since snake only has several months to live, it'll never come to passs.

 

[TTP]

About 50 of my 85 PMC kills in the Middle East happened in front of militia members, and I did do some serious vehicle destruction in front of them.
They witnessed somewhere around 200 PMC kills in South America before they turned on me, and at least 60 of those were within six to seven minutes of the betrayal.

Hmm.. I'm starting to believe there is like a kills cap after which even allies start to be scared about you :lol

 

[SnakeXs]

How are you dealing with rushing through acts without getting caught and no recovery items? I'm playing on Liquid Easy for the

Spoiler

Bandana and Stealth Suit

and I can't imagine how Big Boss mode will rape my face.

Trial and error, due to Extreme's, well, extreme senses for the units. Their vision is amazing. I had done a 0 kill/alert run on a lower difficulty and know what to expect, not that it's the same at all.

It's just a fight between testing how to go through things and repeating, and a battle between time, ammo, and safety.

 

[hteng]

Spoiler

You can. Also even with that menu the fighting just felt bad.

Opinion based on mechanics:

Spoiler

Worst end game fist fight in the series.

quote for the fucking truth, that fight was so lame, i had to continue like.. 3 times.. because the controls were so damn unresponsive (i'm spoiled by DMC seriously), kojima doesn't know how to design

Spoiler

fighting games

 

[BlueTsunami]

Trial and error, due to Extreme's, well, extreme senses for the units. Their vision is amazing. I had done a 0 kill/alert run on a lower difficulty and know what to expect, not that it's the same at all.

It's just a fight between testing how to go through things and repeating, and a battle between time, ammo, and safety.

Big kudos to you if you get it. The requirments really do seem like their put in place to separate the men from the boys in regards to players of this game.

Also, I just read what the highest costing Rifle that Drebin sells does. Holy crap :lol

 

[Grayman]

Spoiler

I respect your opinion but what does say... the original liquid-snake fight have on this?

Spoiler

The move set was almost as large and the controls were actually responsive. I probably wouldn't have beaten the game yesterday if you were able to die during the fight on solid normal. I am open to the idea of just being wrong and the fight controls not clicking with me but I'll have to prove it to myself in another playthrough.

I am looking forward to playing again eventually to digest the story more anyways.

One part that I didn't like was:

Spoiler

Zero forming the patriots. In MGS3 he didn't seem like a character that would have that ability. I expected the patriots to be nameless political/economic elite left over from the philosophers.

 

[Cartman86]

Ok, I see tons of discussion about the plot but here are my questions...

Spoiler

-Was EVA just playing along if she was really working with Ocelot? I don't understand. Really, I don't. She and Ocelot, after all, both wanted to bring down the Patriots.

-Was Liquid Ocelot playing along the entire time or did he have bigger ideas after the Patriots' AI was destroyed? Was this whole thing he orchestrated a facade? Liquid is not a morally sound individual, even if his true intention was to simply destroy the Patriots, if he had his way, the game wouldn't have ended like it did with Sunny's virus restoring order.

- Why exactly did Drebin inject FOXDIE into people who WERE the Patriots if he was also working for them? Because he hated them, I assume?

- Can it be assumed that the new Foxdie in Solid Snake combined with the old Foxdie is basically negating the deadly effects, and all that's slowing Snake down is how his cloned body naturally ages at an accelerated rate?

- Basically, is it that everyone shares the same view that the Patriots' AI must be destroyed, however, what they do to the world after that happens is where their opinions differ? When Big Boss tied together all the loose ends during the final act, it made my head spin. And it still is.

Spoiler

- I don't think she knew that Ocelot was still on her side. He went to great lengths to do what he did.

- I'm going to say that Ocelot's plan was to have the Patriots destroyed just to bring back Big Boss and make the world whole again. He had Naomi help in this and Naomi had Sunny help her.

- What do you mean? Why did he inject it into Snake? If that's the question then he did it on behalf of the Patriots. But he probably had no love them.

- Yes

- Well it did all start with Zero, Para-medic, SIGINT, Big Boss, Ocelot, Eva all trying to live up to The Boss's dream. The Patriots went about it the wrong way and Big Boss and Eva left. Ocelot left in secret. The methods by which everyone went about to end the Patriots are questionable. Ocelot did kill and hurt people to end them. He's an anti-hero really. Don't know if that answers anything

 

[Crazymoogle]

quote for the fucking truth, that fight was so lame, i had to continue like.. 3 times.. because the controls were so damn unresponsive (i'm spoiled by DMC seriously), kojima doesn't know how to design

Spoiler

fighting games

I agree somewhat; MGS3 is not my favorite in the series, but

Spoiler

Kojima made a final fight using the game mechanics rather than switching it up as MGS1 did. I'm willing to bet players felt it was more rewarding using what they had learned during the game rather than breaking out the controller reference.

Plus...the game resets your health when it transitions between song/eras. So even if you want to do really well...oops.

As for SnakeX's reply...

Spoiler

Fair point, but I still don't buy it. I'd expect some sound cues or something. Maybe somebody could ask Kojipro to do an integral podcast where they explain the story...(can't think of anything more surreal than the developers telling you what exactly happened within the game itself!)

 

[SleazyC]

Just got to

Spoiler

Shadow Moses. What's the song that plays? I nearly burst into tears

Spoiler

The Best Is Yet To Come by Rika Muranaka

 

[BeEatNU]

man screaming mantis is whooping my ass.

How do I attack her when

Spoiler

I have both of the dolls?

 

[fourzerotwo]

Spoiler

The fighting mechanics were bad IMO. Maybe it's because I suck, but it wasn't as great as going against The Boss in MGS3.

I thought that as well until I figured out what the hell I was suppose to be doing. Then I took him down in no time. It was pretty a rewarding feeling once I figured it out, as I felt I was slowly learning my enemy, and then using it against him.

My technique was pretty simple:

Spoiler

Hold L1 at all times. Push stick towards him while hitting and holding R1 until we grapple.

When R1 appears, double tap it to give him the ole' double punch until Triangle appears.

Rinse and Repeat until the fight is over in a matter of minutes. I think he maybe got 1 or 2 hits on me.

 

[BlueTsunami]

man screaming mantis is whooping my ass.

How do I attack her when

Spoiler

I have both of the dolls?

Use the

Spoiler

Psycho Mantis Doll. Hold L1 when you fire the projectile and move the controler like its showing onscreen. This should make her flail around and lose health

 

[Grayman]

Hmm.. I'm starting to believe there is like a kills cap after which even allies start to be scared about you :lol

Nah I would have hit it trying to help them take the

Spoiler

mansion

 

[Teknoman]

I know one thing, Gears 2, Resistance 2, Resident Evil 5, and Killzone 2 better have the same calibur sound positioning as MGS4. I've just got a TV with "fake" surround sound, and it still sounds like the sounds are accurately positioned.

EDIT: I keep forgetting that Metal Gear is one of those game series that you dont fully understand the story of that specific game in the series until near the end or after the ending takes place.

 

[SnakeXs]

Big kudos to you if you get it. The requirments really do seem like their put in place to separate the men from the boys in regards to players of this game.

Also, I just read what the highest costing Rifle that Drebin sells does. Holy crap :lol

Thanks. It's really not TOO bad compared to previous MGSs. Fewer difficult forced Cation states (a la the part with Eva at the end of MGS3), and you can save as much as you want now. The only major trade off is that you can't buy Tranq ammo and it's harder to scrounge for it.

 

[fourzerotwo]

man screaming mantis is whooping my ass.

How do I attack her when

Spoiler

I have both of the dolls?

You should...

Spoiler

Equip the doll as your weapon.

Hit L1 to aim.

Hit R1 to fire.

Once it hits her, shake / rock the six axis back and forth (forward and backwards).

I was able to take her out in my first hit.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Also, I've read why Kojima is credited for being "The Voice of God" appearently

Spoiler

if you kill enough people, the voice that booms "ITS BECAUSE YOU LIKE KILLING" is Kojima or something. Snake loses Stamina and proceeds to throw up

 

[hteng]

man screaming mantis is whooping my ass.

How do I attack her when

Spoiler

I have both of the dolls?

Spoiler

hit her with the pscyho mantis doll, you'll be prompt to use L1 + shack the sixaxis, shake it until she dies lol

 

[BeEatNU]

Use the

Spoiler

Psycho Mantis Doll. Hold L1 when you fire the projectile and move the controler like its showing onscreen. This should make her flail around and lose health

ahh okay

Spoiler

I equipped both of them but didn't see them in the quickswitch inventory.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Oh and I don't know how I did it but are you able to Non-Lethal

Spoiler

Screaming Mantis? I did it on my Normal Playthrough, I think. I definitely got her statue. The reason I ask is because the Psycho Mantis doll is supposed to cause physical harm, right?

 

[BeEatNU]

ALSO!

the

Spoiler

Metal Gear REX vs. Metal Gear RAY fight was so fucking epic!

 

[andycapps]

Question about Act IV:

Spoiler

How the heck do I beat Vamp? I knocked him out with the Mk. 2 and he was out for a few seconds, then gets back up and coming at me. Thought I was just supposed to hold him off for a few minutes while Otacon got Rex up and running again? I've been running around now for 15 minutes "holding off" Vamp! Obviously I need something to disable the nanomachines in his body, but what?

 

[VGChampion]

the number of people i've heard in here say that this is the greatest game ever, after beating it, is pretty damn crazy.

hopefully it's not just the new car smell and this does stand the test of time. because it's been a really great experience so far.

I honestly don't think it's the new car smell. This one's here for the long haul. Act 5 spoilers

Spoiler

When I was on top of the ship fighting Liquid Ocelot and his name slowly changing back to normal, with all the original music playing,

it was one of my all time best gaming moments.

 

[Grayman]

Oh and I don't know how I did it but are you able to Non-Lethal

Spoiler

Screaming Mantis? I did it on my Normal Playthrough, I think. I definitely got her statue. The reason I ask is because the Psycho Mantis doll is supposed to cause physical harm, right?

Spoiler

I don't think the armored beauties count as a kill. After the first fight I started using heavy weapons against the armor then m4 stun grenading the beauties to get their face masks.

 

[TTP]

I thought that as well until I figured out what the hell I was suppose to be doing. Then I took him down in no time. It was pretty a rewarding feeling once I figured it out, as I felt I was slowly learning my enemy, and then using it against him.

My technique was pretty simple:

Spoiler

Hold L1 at all times. Push stick towards him while hitting and holding R1 until we grapple.

When R1 appears, double tap it to give him the ole' double punch until Triangle appears.

Rinse and Repeat until the fight is over in a matter of minutes. I think he maybe got 1 or 2 hits on me.

I might add a hint here.

Spoiler

If you hold down Triangle (or hammer it, not sure) when Ocelot does his "taunt" you regain some energy. You have got to be standing tho. Doesn't work when you are laying on the ground.

 

[dralla]

Where's the camera? I know it's on Mission Briefing 2, is it upstairs or downstairs?

 

[Grayman]

Question about Act IV:

Spoiler

How the heck do I beat Vamp? I knocked him out with the Mk. 2 and he was out for a few seconds, then gets back up and coming at me. Thought I was just supposed to hold him off for a few minutes while Otacon got Rex up and running again? I've been running around now for 15 minutes "holding off" Vamp! Obviously I need something to disable the nanomachines in his body, but what?

Spoiler

CQC with the syringe equiped and press triangle.

 

[Cartman86]

Oh and I don't know how I did it but are you able to Non-Lethal

Spoiler

Screaming Mantis? I did it on my Normal Playthrough, I think. I definitely got her statue. The reason I ask is because the Psycho Mantis doll is supposed to cause physical harm, right?

I was wondering the same thing when I did it, but it seems like the

Spoiler

final hit with the doll the psyche meter hits 0 a tiny tiny bit before the health meter so it counts as a psyche kill.

I got 0 kills so it should be ok.

 

[Baha]

Question about Act IV:

Spoiler

How the heck do I beat Vamp? I knocked him out with the Mk. 2 and he was out for a few seconds, then gets back up and coming at me. Thought I was just supposed to hold him off for a few minutes while Otacon got Rex up and running again? I've been running around now for 15 minutes "holding off" Vamp! Obviously I need something to disable the nanomachines in his body, but what?

Use the force.....Er I mean, check your inventory. You received something earlier that should aid you

 

[Kagari]

Question about Act IV:

Spoiler

How the heck do I beat Vamp? I knocked him out with the Mk. 2 and he was out for a few seconds, then gets back up and coming at me. Thought I was just supposed to hold him off for a few minutes while Otacon got Rex up and running again? I've been running around now for 15 minutes "holding off" Vamp! Obviously I need something to disable the nanomachines in his body, but what?

Spoiler

CQC him with the syringe out and press triangle to inject him with it to suppress the nanomachines.

 

[TTP]

You should...

Spoiler

Equip the doll as your weapon.

Hit L1 to aim.

Hit R1 to fire.

Once it hits her, shake / rock the six axis back and forth (forward and backwards).

I was able to take her out in my first hit.

Spoiler

The RED doll (Psycho mantis). The blue one (The sorrow) does nothing to her.

 

[TTP]

Where's the camera? I know it's on Mission Briefing 2, is it upstairs or downstairs?

Downstairs, behind the desk to the north (in front of the helicopter basically)

 

[tha_con]

Damn, SO many minor touches.

Like on the last fight

Spoiler

if you die, the word "Continue" is fucking TINY and "Exit" is HUGE (by comparison). I assume this is symbolism, since it's hard for snake to continue, but easy to quit.

 

[GCQuinton]

Question about Act IV:

Spoiler

How the heck do I beat Vamp? I knocked him out with the Mk. 2 and he was out for a few seconds, then gets back up and coming at me. Thought I was just supposed to hold him off for a few minutes while Otacon got Rex up and running again? I've been running around now for 15 minutes "holding off" Vamp! Obviously I need something to disable the nanomachines in his body, but what?

Spoiler

After you knock him out the first time, grab him with CQC and equip the nanomachine supressing syringe Naomi gave you. Once you grab him, inject the syringe.

 

[TTP]

Damn, SO many minor touches.

Like on the last fight

Spoiler

if you die, the word "Continue" is fucking TINY and "Exit" is HUGE (by comparison). I assume this is symbolism, since it's hard for snake to continue, but easy to quit.

Look closer.

Spoiler

It doesn't read "Exit" but "ExiSt". Also, try selecting Exist once...

 

[bh7812]

I have had some time to play the game and wanted to chip in with my thoughts. I'm just at the very beginning of Act 5 the final act so I'll end up finishing tomorrow.

I pretty much share the opinion of 99 percent of everyone here, just HOLY WOW..honestly from a presentation and technical standpoint we will not soon see anything that is going to equal or surpass what this game has done. It truly shows what the PS3 is capable of.

Several times during the course of this game I've had to literally stop and take breaks because of how freaking awe struck this thing has left me.

One thing's certain. Most, if not all of this game wasn't possible last generation. The second half of Act 3 alone would have either have had to be stripped down significantly from what it is now, more than likely it couldn't have been done. During the second half of that act my mouth was dropped that whole time and my hands were literally shaking due to how intense it gets. VERY few games do that to me.

On the question of whether it can be ported, I have my own opinion but will leave that out of my post because I just wanted to join everyone's praise of the game

Well worth the price of admission. I got the LE so I'll watch the bonus Blu Ray once I finish the game. Kojima, Mr. Payton and that whole team deserve all the praise they're getting. Superb stuff

One edit: Honestly, if you are able and can afford one, this is a great time to jump in and get a PS3. It's not just this game there are some great games coming later this year too and I think if this game isn't what makes people get one finally it will be the FF13 games or GT5 next year that do it. Sony's challenge now is going to be keeping up this incredible momentum they're getting from MGS4.

 

[victreeb3l]

Act IV question:

Spoiler

just got ambushed by that gekko blocking the elevator. i did some gangsta shit and blew him up with my RPG. yet, i feel like there was another way to get past him, like a sneaking way or something. howd you guys do it?

 

[tha_con]

Look closer.

Spoiler

It doesn't read "Exit" but "ExiSt". Also, try selecting Exist once...

Yea I noticed that, so awesome. These guy's really outdid themselves.

From now on, I refer to "Kojima Productions" instead of just Kojima, because it seems so...inappropriate.

 

[mileS]

Some of you guys need to read my explanations I posted earlier in the thread.

On the last fight and the person in question,

Spoiler

Ocelot was not simply acting, he forced Liquid's personality onto himself through the use psychotherapy, hypnosis and a few other things. He had to be convincing as Liquid and acting wouldn't do by itself.

do you remember the post number? this thread is moving along at a really fast speed its hard to keep up

Maybe because

Spoiler

He wanted no one in the world to know his true motives beside a selected few. Oh and maybe because he knew Snake was monitored by Patriots, just like anyone else was. Infact, if he didn't send wave of dudes to get Snake, The Patriots would know something is wrong. Drebin, Rat Patrol and everyone else was under direct and indirect orders and influence from Patriots even if Snake/Otacon didn't want to work with them

.

In the end, I think

Spoiler

Snake and Otacon are the only survivors who know what the hell was going on

.

Thanks

 

[Kagari]

Act IV question:

Spoiler

just got ambushed by that gekko blocking the elevator. i did some gangsta shit and blew him up with my RPG. yet, i feel like there was another way to get past him, like a sneaking way or something. howd you guys do it?

I blew it up too, lol.

 

[N30RYU]

Also, I've read why Kojima is credited for being "The Voice of God" appearently

Spoiler

if you kill enough people, the voice that booms "ITS BECAUSE YOU LIKE KILLING" is Kojima or something. Snake loses Stamina and proceeds to throw up

Spoiler

That voice isn't Liquid? When in MGS he told to Snake something like "I've seen your face while fighting and enjoying killing my comrades"

 

[Gribbix]

Act IV question:

Spoiler

just got ambushed by that gekko blocking the elevator. i did some gangsta shit and blew him up with my RPG. yet, i feel like there was another way to get past him, like a sneaking way or something. howd you guys do it?

Spoiler

I used the Mk. III to activate the console and electrify the floor which caused the Gekko to explode.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Holy shit, I was playing Act 3 on my third play through and

Spoiler

I lost track of the resistance guy, so I switched my NV on to see him. And there he was, crossing the road, but from the doorway where he came from, another figure was peeking around the corner. I couldn't make it out at first, but then I noticed the hat - it was the three Dwarf Gekkos/Scarabs in the longcoat and top hat that appear in the later cutscene, stalking me/the resistance guy!

:lol

Amazing.

It's the little touches that make the gameplay in this top notch.

Spoiler

Yeah I ran into that guy a few times on my first try when I was crossing the canal under the bridges. He freaked me out and I kept popping out tryin to shoot him for like 10 minutes. I was seriously when he came back in that cutscene. Goddamn Kojima is good.

 

[mattiewheels]

damn.

ok, i just got cavalier with the spoiler highlighting and just spoiled something pretty big for myself

i'm outta here until i beat the game. have fun guys