Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie

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What evidence is there that it's
Gray Fox's grave? In the ending we see two tombstones- one from the Boss (which is shown to be next to the grave that Snake is visiting) and the one that mentions Outer Heaven and a death date in 1999. That could be BB or Gray Fox however with a birthdate in the '30s then it has to be BB since Frank was a child soldier when he met BB in '66.
 
It was Big Boss' grave:
1930-1999
Mentions Outer Haven - Big Boss' dream
The person he was close too was The Boss, he would be buried beside her like married people are (I know they aren't married, but you would want to be buried close to someone you love)
They never mention Frank Jager or Grey Fox extensivly, why would Snake go to his grave
Big Boss would of also redeemed himself partially because Snake has found out he was fighting the Patriots
BIG BOSS is SNAKE'S FATHER!!
 
BEESSST GAAAAAAME EVVVVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR


SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE

LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIQUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUID
 
kmgrey said:
What evidence is there that it's
Gray Fox's grave? In the ending we see two tombstones- one from the Boss (which is shown to be next to the grave that Snake is visiting) and the one that mentions Outer Heaven and a death date in 1999. That could be BB or Gray Fox however with a birthdate in the '30s then it has to be BB since Frank was a child soldier when he met BB in '66.
Click to expand...

Exactly. We reached this conclusion but found it hard to accept that snake would be visiting
the grave of his biggest enemy before he knew his story and struggle. Its just didnt make much sense.
 
kmgrey said:
What evidence is there that it's
Gray Fox's grave? In the ending we see two tombstones- one from the Boss (which is shown to be next to the grave that Snake is visiting) and the one that mentions Outer Heaven and a death date in 1999. That could be BB or Gray Fox however with a birthdate in the '30s then it has to be BB since Frank was a child soldier when he met BB in '66.
Click to expand...
OK maybe it wasn't. Now I'm stumped. Plothole LOL.
 
twinturbo2 said:
Debate time. Who's the more awesomer character, Drebin or Roman Bellic? :D
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Drebin,
you could contend that his exposition on the BB corps was long and boring but Roman could call your cellphone at any point in GTA4 to be a nuisance. Drebin at the very least remained useful throughout the game as a weapons launderer. Roman remained a nuisance the entire game.
 
I think it makes perfect sense for it to be Big Boss. It's kind of ignorant to think he wouldn't know about the actions of Big Boss during the 60's and 70's (prior to Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land). He may not know about The Boss and the whole 9 yards, but he probably knows that Big Boss was a 'hero' during that time.
 
dalyr95 said:
It was Big Boss' grave:
1930-1999
Mentions Outer Haven - Big Boss' dream
The person he was close too was The Boss, he would be buried beside her like married people are (I know they aren't married, but you would want to be buried close to someone you love)
They never mention Frank Jager or Grey Fox extensivly, why would Snake go to his grave
Big Boss would of also redeemed himself partially because Snake has found out he was fighting the Patriots
BIG BOSS is SNAKE'S FATHER!!
Click to expand...

But at the beginning of the game does it show the gravestone?
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
I will be honest, i cringed at david hayters raspy version of snakes voice but as the game went on i started to like it.
Click to expand...
Same, it really fit Old Snake, I think. Also, like one guy in the dev team said in the Making Of, as the game went on, Old Snake really seemed to fit the Snake role and younger Snake began to look weird in comparison
, especially the Young Snake FaceCamo mask
.
 
tha_con said:
I think it makes perfect sense for it to be Big Boss. It's kind of ignorant to think he wouldn't know about the actions of Big Boss during the 60's and 70's (prior to Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land). He may not know about The Boss and the whole 9 yards, but he probably knows that Big Boss was a 'hero' during that time.
Click to expand...

In act 1, he calls him a war criminal when he was brought up. He didnt have a clue until Eva told him in act 3.
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
Exactly. We reached this conclusion but found it hard to accept that snake would be visiting
the grave of his biggest enemy before he knew his story and struggle. Its just didnt make much sense.
Click to expand...

I simply believe that
Snake owes his affliction of rapid aging thanks to being a clone of Big Boss. Moreover, and his struggles and battles have all been thanks to Big Boss. I don't think his visit to the grave was one of reverence, but instead, a visit to someone that was still afflicting him, even after death.
 
hirokazu said:
Same, it really fit Old Snake, I think. Also, like one guy in the dev team said in the Making Of, as the game went on, Old Snake really seemed to fit the Snake role and younger Snake began to look weird in comparison
, especially the Young Snake FaceCamo mask
.
Click to expand...

God i wish i could see that doc. I hope it shows up online soon. And yeah, just going back to the
young camo
, while cool, didnt feel right with me after awhile. the voice fits so well with old snake. It also helps that through the cutscenes you get to see more of snake as a person rather than a badass on the field so you sympothize with him more.
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
Exactly. We reached this conclusion but found it hard to accept that snake would be visiting
the grave of his biggest enemy before he knew his story and struggle. Its just didnt make much sense.
Click to expand...

Since MGS1 it seems pretty clear that Snake can
respect the actions a soldier takes even if he isn't always on the same side or agrees with him. Everyone seems quick to think it would be acceptable for him to be visiting Gray Fox's grave but before his "redemption" (if you even want to call it that) in MGS1, Gray Fox was on Big Boss's side at Zanzibarland too. Even before GF sacrifices himself at the end of MGS1, Snake doesn't automatically view his return as that of an enemy who must be destroyed. Heck, Snake is pretty much respectful of practically every member of Foxhound he takes down in MGS1 short of maybe Liquid.

So I don't find it implausible at all that Snake could respect the actions that Big Boss had taken before he later started the Outer Heaven revolt. Considering the family issues involved, his feelings would have to be rather conflicted to say the least. In that context it makes sense that he would visit that grave in an attempt to come to terms with his feelings for Big Boss.

He can honor and respect the man Big Boss once was while still resenting the man he ultimately came to be.
 
Bulla564 said:
I simply believe that
Snake owes his affliction of rapid aging thanks to being a clone of Big Boss. Moreover, and his struggles and battles have all been thanks to Big Boss. I don't think his visit to the grave was one of reverence, but instead, a visit to someone that was still afflicting him, even after death.
Click to expand...

Totally. Like i said earlier,
he sought to end it where it all began. His first major enemy and source of exsistance.
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
In act 1, he calls him a war criminal when he was brought up. He didnt have a clue until Eva told him in act 3.
Click to expand...

How can you deduce that Snake calling Big Boss a 'war criminal' (for actions commited in Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land) means he didn't know anything about Big Boss in the 60's and 70's? That's retarded. That doesn't change the fact that Snake and Big Boss still worked together prior to his 'defection', nor does it mean Snake knew nothing of Big Boss' prior engagements.
 
Game@Heart said:
In act 1, he calls him a war criminal when he was brought up. He didnt have a clue until Eva told him in act 3.
Click to expand...

Again, the referenced codec from Act 1 reveals that he knew about
Operation Snake Eater so he knows BB was a hero before he ultimately became a war criminal
 
But as Eva reveals Big Boss was fighting the control of the Patriots which makes him an ally, doesn't excuse his methods and Big Boss is Snake's father, whose destiny was an awfully like Snakes
 
Heh my buddy at work did this with the spore creature creator:


crelaughingoctopus06842yu5.jpg
 
I think Act 4 may be one of the best stages in videogame history. The art, the music, the setup. Absolutely amazing.
 
Raging Spaniard said:
I think Act 4 may be one of the best stages in videogame history. The art, the music, the setup. Absolutely amazing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it was unbelievable.

The REX vs RAY fight was one of the best videogame moments I've played through
 
I've gone through most of Act 4 now, taking my time. There is much to enjoy here. I thought the 'ghosts of the past' was very well done.

I like the boss fights with the Beasts. I like how all of them have to be found, which is a feat in itself, before they can be engaged. The Act 4 beast fight took me over half an hour and I never felt bored throughout.

The level of detail and pure whimsy that this game has is wonderful. The weapons list is truly epic in scale. I also love the face camos that get unlocked. I played all of Act 4 as Young Snake because looking at Old Snake started to get too depressing. That really says something about the game. That I rather play with a pleasant illusion than the painful truth.

I have however started to either skip the cutscenes or just walk away from the TV while they run. It's a good opportunity to take those 15 minute breaks that Kojima recommends. The Beast's death scenes and Drebin's backfilling their origins is a waste of time and they take away from the overall excellence of the game. I can barely sit through those long-assed briefings as it is.
 
I don't know about you guys but the final boss battle
at the top of outer haven was so goddamn powerful. I was tearing up because it was so amazingly well done
 
Hcoregamer00 said:
I don't know about you guys but the final boss battle
at the top of outer haven was so goddamn powerful. I was tearing up because it was so amazingly well done
Click to expand...

When Snake Eater kicks in, it reaches its max. The fight however can be excruciating when your doing it on harder difficulties. Hopefully people played it on normal their first time so they didnt have to repeat the fight 4 times
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
When Snake Eater kicks in, it reaches its max. The fight however can be excruciating when your doing it on harder difficulties. Hopefully people played it on normal their first time so they didnt have to repeat the fight 4 times
Click to expand...

I was on normal and had to repeat it 3 times, I kept making stupid mistakes and getting hammered by Ocelot's falcon punch :lol.I also didn't realize there was a block button until I hit select heh. Absolutely epic finale though, hell, absolutely epic everything, it's been said many times before, but here it goes again, game of the fuckin' forever.
 
Dyno said:
II like the boss fights with the Beasts. I like how all of them have to be found, which is a feat in itself, before they can be engaged. The Act 4 beast fight took me over half an hour and I never felt bored throughout.
Click to expand...
Yeah the beasts are good bosses. The one in act 4 annoyed me at first because it took me ages to figure out what to do, but once I figured it out the fight became a lot more enjoyable. The battle felt like a mix between
The End and Sniper Wolf

I have however started to either started to either skip the cutscenes or just walk away from the TV. The Beast's death scenes and Drebin's backfilling their origins is a waste of time and they take away from the overall excellence of the game. I can barely sit through those long-assed briefings as it is.
Click to expand...
Definately. The beast cutscenes are just dreadful. I dont mind the occasional cheesy moments that you have in MGS games, but those scenes are just crap. The stories that drebin tells you are just as bad.
 
Raging Spaniard said:
I think Act 4 may be one of the best stages in videogame history. The art, the music, the setup. Absolutely amazing.
Click to expand...

Act 4 has one of the best intros and outros for a stage with a "ok" middle section in between.
I just don't know if I can get over the gameplay murder the game committed half way through. Makes me feel kinda strange when I'm one of the few complaining about it, though when people toss around the word "experience" I shouldn't be surprised if certain things take a backseat.
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
I will be honest, i cringed at david hayters raspy version of snakes voice but as the game went on i started to like it.
Click to expand...


actually, as the game goes on, hayter tones down the raspy voice A LOT, almost back to standard snake. I started the game for the second time yesterday and noticed it wasn't just me getting used to old snake's voice, it's the voice actually being much worse in the first minutes of the game.
 
Doc Evils said:
I liked Drebin. He felt far more human with his dark past than a cheeseball script.
Click to expand...
Drebin is a great character. Only in MGS could a gun launderer with a coke drinking shaven monkey fit in so well.
 
Dr.Hadji said:
Act 4 has one of the best intros and outros for a stage with a "ok" middle section in between.
I just don't know if I can get over the gameplay murder the game committed half way through.
Click to expand...
What was wrong with the gameplay in Act 4?
 
psycho_snake said:
Yeah the beasts are good bosses. The one in act 4 annoyed me at first because it took me ages to figure out what to do, but once I figured it out the fight became a lot more enjoyable. The battle felt like a mix between
The End and Sniper Wolf

Definately. The beast cutscenes are just dreadful. I dont mind the occasional cheesy moments that you have in MGS games, but those scenes are just crap. The stories that drebin tells you are just as bad.
Click to expand...

They came up with some pretty good stories for them but i agree that their presentation left alot to be desired. They didnt really have a purpose in the narrative. And if the PMC's could create solders like them, why werent their more of them i wonder?
Hearing their tale after i killed them i think would be less effective than hearing it before and maybe seeing them slowly degrade and rabble as the fight progresses. Potential lost. At least the actual fights were well done.
 
psycho_snake said:
What was wrong with the gameplay in Act 4?
Click to expand...

I think he meant act3, but in 4
tension is greatly diminshed when its just robots and no need for the octo camo except for the boss. Act 5 of course, is only 2 areas including a boss battle. Its basiclly one giant cutscene.
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
They came up with some pretty good stories for them but i agree that their presentation left alot to be desired. They didnt really have a purpose in the narrative. And if the PMC's could create solders like them, why werent their more of them i wonder?
Hearing their tale after i killed them i think would be less effective than hearing it before and maybe seeing them slowly degrade and rabble as the fight progresses. Potential lost. At least the actual fights were well done.
Click to expand...
I honestly dont think hearing it before or after would make much of a different. I think it would still sound pretty stupid.
 
psycho_snake said:
What was wrong with the gameplay in Act 4?
Click to expand...

Acts 3 and 4 (don't know about 5) don't have the rebel faction and this adds so much to the gameplay. Helping them out or using the intense battle between rebel and PMC to get through the battlefields is where MSG4s game play is at its best.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Heh my buddy at work did this with the spore creature creator:


crelaughingoctopus06842yu5.jpg
Click to expand...

im going to quote this img because it needs more quoting. i might shell out 10 bucks just to make and entire mgs line of monsters. spore shagohod here we come.
 
should we make a thread for BIGBOSS EXTREME difficulty updates and strategies rather than making arbitraty posts about what time you got here and how to get through there, while mucking up spoiler discussion.
 
I havent read much on this forum or anywhere else becuase I dont want any spoilers and I'm sure this topic has been beatn to death and this may come off as a bit fanboyish but w/e... here we go.. just some random thoughts..

Review scores are not my thing and I dont really care, and I rarely ever comment on them but i think its funny/interesting that some of these magazines would give this game a 8/10, and I truly do not understand how someone could come to that conclusion outside of wanting to be different from other publications. . It truly is nothing less than a 10 in pretty much every way. There is no other game out there right now that even comes close to MGS4 imo. I dont even see any game in the coming years even being able to top this game.

I havent finished it yet, but I think I'm close. I think I'll beat it tonight. 18 hours in. Im a huge MGS fan and really this has been the most amazing gaming experience I've had thus far. I can say im proud to own a PS3 and it also validates my purchase almost a year ago for the system itself solely for this game.

With the PS3 in general, not one game has disappointed me that I have purchased, thus far..Resistance, Uncharted etc.. also some 3rd party non-exclusives...the level of quality in most PS3 games is really refreshing where we are in age where there is so much shovel ware out there. Im sure in the coming years it may follow suit to the PS2 where there are a lot of sub par games but I am so happy right now that a lot of the games, esp the exclusives just keep raising the bar. To think we are only really 2 years in and now I'm playing MGS4 makes me really excited to think what other gaming experiences are in store int he coming years. I would absolutely love to see a Raiden only game come out int he following years from Kojima.

Looking back on sales figures, and after playing MGS, at this point do not care if the PS3 comes in "3rd place" or even "4th place" if thats even possible. None of that matters now. If anything it makes me feel sorry for anyone who has spent money on anything besides the PS3 (although I do plan on buying a 360 for NGII soon.).

Ahhh...cant wait to get out of work to play some more!
 
Shinz Kicker said:
should we make a thread for BIGBOSS EXTREME difficulty updates and strategies rather than making arbitraty posts about what time you got here and how to get through there, while mucking up spoiler discussion.
Click to expand...

No. Only a fraction of us are going to attempt it anyway. After learning what you get isnt what i thought it would be, i decided it wasnt even worth all the grief i would put myself through.
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
...And if the PMC's could create solders like them, why werent their more of them i wonder?
Click to expand...

The PMC's
created their mental states, but Liquid gave them the advanced hardware and weapons to make them truly lethal.
All 4 of them were under his command after all, and all 4 of them had code names of Liquid's former foxhound unit which could be just a coincidence
since all of them were connected in some way to the animal in there codenames.


EDIT: I liked the fact that Drebin told you
their back stories. Having every boss talk about their life story before they died got old after 1.
Even though it was told in codec form its better than the alternative...
We didnt need to see cutscenes of them being imprisoned,tortured, and killing kids
 
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