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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
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After beating this game I've come to the realization that there are way too many plot twists and sub plots and tiny little niggles to actually try to keep track of.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great series and rivals some of the best story arcs out there but I can't help but scratch my head at almost every mission briefing or major plot reveal (esp those involving the patriots or naomi).
Anyone else feel that this series has one of the most over complicated plots in the history of plots?
Don't get me wrong, it's a great series and rivals some of the best story arcs out there but I can't help but scratch my head at almost every mission briefing or major plot reveal (esp those involving the patriots or naomi).
Anyone else feel that this series has one of the most over complicated plots in the history of plots?
Giant Robot
Member
Bizzyb said:
really? I felt MGS1 had waaaaay more plot twist. Like a plot twist every hour. Awesome.
Lostconfused
Member
Bizzyb said:
To me the plot seems rather self contained, the key players in the story never change in any of the games.
dammitmattt
Banned
Okay, GAF, I have some dumb questions and don't tell me to RTFM because I'm on the road and it's not in front of me.
One thing that really bugged me in Act 1 was a scene when you were fighting through multiple levels of a hotel/apartment against a lot of leapy dudes (I hope that was spoiler-free enough). During this scene, it would have been great to be able to blind fire and/or pop up over cover, but I could not figure out how to do this naturally without using the X button to pop up and down, re-adjusting my aim awkwardly each time. Also, are there any true cover-to-cover moves?
I'm feeling like the cover system is completely shoddy and half-assed, so much so that the game actively encourages you NOT to play it as a shooter. It really only works when you play it more like previous MGS games, which makes it all the more mysterious why there is such a strong emphasis on guns (how many slightly different models are there in Drebin's shop?!?).
Thanks to the poor cover system and lack of visceral gunplay, it's not working for me at all as a shooter and only really feels great when you are sneaking around, using the tranq or suppressed pistol and CQC. Thankfully, the scenarios in Act 2 (where I am now) feel more like they were designed for stealth and I'm enjoying them more than the Act 1 scenarios.
I could be wrong about these issues, and if so, please feel free to furiously mock me, but it's just weird that this game has gotten such a pass from most of the media on some of these issues solely because the controls are a huge improvement over MGS3.
One thing that really bugged me in Act 1 was a scene when you were fighting through multiple levels of a hotel/apartment against a lot of leapy dudes (I hope that was spoiler-free enough). During this scene, it would have been great to be able to blind fire and/or pop up over cover, but I could not figure out how to do this naturally without using the X button to pop up and down, re-adjusting my aim awkwardly each time. Also, are there any true cover-to-cover moves?
I'm feeling like the cover system is completely shoddy and half-assed, so much so that the game actively encourages you NOT to play it as a shooter. It really only works when you play it more like previous MGS games, which makes it all the more mysterious why there is such a strong emphasis on guns (how many slightly different models are there in Drebin's shop?!?).
Thanks to the poor cover system and lack of visceral gunplay, it's not working for me at all as a shooter and only really feels great when you are sneaking around, using the tranq or suppressed pistol and CQC. Thankfully, the scenarios in Act 2 (where I am now) feel more like they were designed for stealth and I'm enjoying them more than the Act 1 scenarios.
I could be wrong about these issues, and if so, please feel free to furiously mock me, but it's just weird that this game has gotten such a pass from most of the media on some of these issues solely because the controls are a huge improvement over MGS3.
Just watched the documentaries. They are so awesome.
Best money spent on a limited edition.
It's even great reference for introducing people who want to get into the game industry to see what it is like to work in the office studio at a personal level.
Best money spent on a limited edition.
It's even great reference for introducing people who want to get into the game industry to see what it is like to work in the office studio at a personal level.
You are very wrong.dammitmattt said:
The whole SOP system
What Liquid Ocelots true intentions were (those who beat the game know what I mean)
Then there's Naomi and what the heck she was doing and why
Most of it does make sense but there is a lot of info, background and foreground, to intake and put together coherently
What Liquid Ocelots true intentions were (those who beat the game know what I mean)
Then there's Naomi and what the heck she was doing and why
Most of it does make sense but there is a lot of info, background and foreground, to intake and put together coherently
Valkyr Junkie
Member
dammitmattt said:
You can pop out sideways from cover if you are leaned over as far as you can (like at the edge of a doorway) and press L1. Snake moves from out of cover in a more realistic (read: "slow") manner than most games though.
Giant Robot
Member
Farnack said:
yes, very good documentary indeed. Watching that kinda makes me not to ever get into a big studio in the gaming industry. :lol So many heads butting and clashes, deadlines, antipication etc. But damn, those guys are so noble.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
dammitmattt said:
Not sure about you, but I didn't want Metal Gears of Solid War. I kind of hate how most people want something similar to this in EVERY shooter, yet one that does use it (Uncharted and perhaps Dark Sector) is knocked for "borrowing" elements from other games (i.e. GearsOW).
Seriously, Idon't need to automatically pop in and out to have fun in fire fights. Kind of more intense when you're able to move freely behind cover popping out when you want without hugging a wall for that extra action movie dramatic effect. "Oh loo, my guy has his back to the wall with his guns up waiting to pop out." Not for me/mgs.
dammitmattt
Banned
Farnack said:
Well tell me how exactly I'm wrong, smartass. I have legitimate questions.
Valkyr Junkie said:
I'm aware that he can pop out from the side of most cover, which makes it all the more frustrating that he can't pop out over cover. Leaning out from cover in Gears/Vegas didn't feel too fast or unrealistic, so I'm not sure why Konami would slow it down, especially when compared to his crazy-ass fast rolling animation.
Kowak said:
The beginning is so damn chaotic and confusing that I didn't figure out until midway through Act 1 that Kojima really wants you to play it as a stealth game, and once I got back in this mindset, I enjoyed it more.
MoonsaultSlayer said:
I don't necessarily want Gears, but more Rainbow Six: Vegas would be much appreciated. Did you play that game? Why again are you giving them a free pass for having an inferior cover system? Wouldn't it be ideal to have a better cover system AND keep the same scenarios and gameplay? That's a win-win situation!
Also, I have absolutely no clue what you are trying to articulate in your second paragraph. Not a fucking clue.
Zombie James
Banned
Raiden
? This database has some interesting stuff...
rescued Sunny from Area 51
Lostconfused
Member
I am pretty sure it was easier to pop out and shoot in mgs1/2/3. Personally i don't like how they changed up leaning against the wall but its not a big deal.
MiamiWesker
Member
Darkpen said:
I thought
Raiden willingly chose to have his body transformed.
dammitmattt
Banned
Lostconfused said:
That was the auto-aim at work. I haven't even tried auto-aim in MGS4, now that I think about it...
Because everyone disagrees with you aside from the minority haters. Gunplay is the strongest suit in MGS4 gameplay.dammitmattt said:
MGO uses it and it's fun as hell. Cover system works well. Kojima Production personally went into military training in order to know how to do it. You're just wrong.
Kojima wants players to play it like they want to. MGS4 is praised for being an open ended game.
Zombie James
Banned
Darkpen said:
Not according to the Database...
Lostconfused
Member
Really? Well the auto aim is pretty horrible in mgs4, the only time its even worth using is during the on rail shooting scenes.dammitmattt said:
Teknoman said:
There was a bit of flirting with her at the start of the game and other random times but it was all on codec. Had no idea she would have such a booty :lol
Act 4 minor spoiler
yea getting the socom there was a nice touch. first thing I did was put a silencer on and equip it. Hearing Snake comment on it brought a big smile to my face. I must have stayed in that area for a good 20 minutes soaking it all in. I'll always remember that part of the game.
KZObsessed
Member
So, anyone know why they skip the Act 1 Mission Briefing when you play through the game?
Seems silly to make you watch it from the menu.
I only just remembered I hadn't watched it yet, just did and it was awesome.
Seems silly to make you watch it from the menu.
I only just remembered I hadn't watched it yet, just did and it was awesome.
fistfulofmetal
Banned
_leech_ said:
I read that and did a double take.
dammitmattt
Banned
Farnack said:
I'm just wrong....because I'm wrong? Awesome!
And give me a damn break. There is absolutely nothing open-ended about MGS4 based on the 1 1/2 acts I've played. It's extremely linear, though you do have multiple ways to tackle any given option, which is what I think you were trying to say.
Lostconfused
Member
Who here expects a female body to make into the game to be used with the beauty and the beast faces?
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
FFObsessed said:
Because pussy gamers would complain about wanting to play when they start a new game and not want to watch more cutscenes. I personally wouldn't have minded it being included...
Also, I have a huge question that seems to break the game's plot WIDE open....:
If Solid and Liquid clones of Big Boss, "created" by the Patriots. Why the hell was Solid NOT at all controlled by them from the beginning to NOT attack/kill Big Boss (their supposed "icon"? To NOT foil their plans to control everything? Why was he able to retire peacefully until Shadow Moses without having to do some sort of dirty work for the Patriots? Why did he have so few missions if he was supposed to be a supreme soldier to represent the fallen Big Boss? And why was he allowed to be branded a traitor (leader of dead cell) if he was supposed to be Big Boss 2? They had all this control over Solidus... what gives?
from the Database thread:
ok, so apparently, Dr. Madnar (from MG2), despite being a cybernetics expert, wasn't completely responsible for Raiden's exoskeleton, as we were originally led to believe.
All he did was replace Raiden's nano-machine filled blood with white, artificial blood, and help him recover.
This explains the company branding on his helmet, and why people were lead to believe that Raiden might be working for the Patriots when those screenshots were released.
At the same time, however, Dr. Madnar is responsible for the first revival of Big Boss, which involved cybernetic surgery, not unlike Raiden's.
Its funny, going through this database, and coming across references from Kojima's other games, like Snatcher and ZoE.
All he did was replace Raiden's nano-machine filled blood with white, artificial blood, and help him recover.
This explains the company branding on his helmet, and why people were lead to believe that Raiden might be working for the Patriots when those screenshots were released.
At the same time, however, Dr. Madnar is responsible for the first revival of Big Boss, which involved cybernetic surgery, not unlike Raiden's.
Its funny, going through this database, and coming across references from Kojima's other games, like Snatcher and ZoE.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
MoonsaultSlayer said:
and also: Even the database can't explain Solidus. One section says three clones were creates, another mentions just the 2... I'm confused, though I still love the story.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
dammitmattt said:
What game of this type is NOT linear? Most games out there that are of the highest caliber are linear. Not a huge problem.
rollingstart
Banned
The database is really interesting, but the still didn't explain about Natasha!
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Darkpen said:I just want Raiden's body and his sword
Yeah, I was disappointed that there was no sword in this game. i'm also not that crazy about Raiden's new suit though. Still wouldn't mind it for the authenticity lol.
rollingstart
Banned
Darkpen said:I just want Raiden's body and his sword
Leave that for MGS4:S. I can't wait to rebuy this game.
Darkpen said:You mean Nastasha Romanenko? Who's Natasha?
It doesn't explain everything, though, you're right. I wish there was more info in it
Like, for example, there's a clear lack of more info on Raiden.
Yeah, Nastasha. I always type Natasha because of Goldeneye.
Lostconfused
Member
Darkpen said:I just want Raiden's body and his sword
Seeing Raiden do the things that he can do in the cutscenes, it would just feel wrong to have him restrained to normal MGS4 gameplay.
MiamiWesker
Member
Darkpen said:
From the guide.
Crazymoogle
Member
MoonsaultSlayer said:
My memory is a bit rusty, but...
Solidus = former US president and the perfect Big Boss 2, as stated clearly in MGS2. The Patriots were interested in how Solid and Liquid developed, but Solidus was essentially everything they paid for minus some early aging. Solid freaked out after MG2, so they let him get himself back together for a bit until he was needed (read: the unforseen Shadow Moses incident). With Big Boss out of the picture and 3 clones, why bother running all three of them into the ground? Especially the "inferior" one? They already had a top-notch FOXHOUND replacement and a president.
Presumably Snake's orders in MG2 to kill Big Boss are due to his war against the Patriots. Even if the guy serves as a genetic key, Zero obviously wanted to shut him down.
By MGS2, Snake was no longer the new incarnation of the Big Boss messiah idea; he was a tool to help the Patriots train the next generation. The Patriots saw how easily their clones could go off the rails, and started following a plan to create more easily influenced super-soldiers. I mean, two of the three clones attempted to defeat their masters personally, so they had to know the cloning plan wasn't working out.
Solidus = former US president and the perfect Big Boss 2, as stated clearly in MGS2. The Patriots were interested in how Solid and Liquid developed, but Solidus was essentially everything they paid for minus some early aging. Solid freaked out after MG2, so they let him get himself back together for a bit until he was needed (read: the unforseen Shadow Moses incident). With Big Boss out of the picture and 3 clones, why bother running all three of them into the ground? Especially the "inferior" one? They already had a top-notch FOXHOUND replacement and a president.
Presumably Snake's orders in MG2 to kill Big Boss are due to his war against the Patriots. Even if the guy serves as a genetic key, Zero obviously wanted to shut him down.
By MGS2, Snake was no longer the new incarnation of the Big Boss messiah idea; he was a tool to help the Patriots train the next generation. The Patriots saw how easily their clones could go off the rails, and started following a plan to create more easily influenced super-soldiers. I mean, two of the three clones attempted to defeat their masters personally, so they had to know the cloning plan wasn't working out.
MiamiWesker
Member
Darkpen said:You mean Nastasha Romanenko? Who's Natasha?
It doesn't explain everything, though, you're right. I wish there was more info in it
Like, for example, there's a clear lack of more info on Raiden.
Nastasha is mentioned in MGS4.
rollingstart
Banned
MiamiWesker said:Nastasha is mentioned in MGS4.
when?
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