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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
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Dax01 said:
Not out of guilt. I mean, she definitely felt bad about everything, but as I said, it was all part of Ocelot's plan. She had to seem to defect to them, give them the data they needed to take down the Patriots AI and then she went back to Ocelot so that he could get control of the system (You remember them saying that he needs Naomi for it to work right? I'm guessing she had to do something in order for Ocelot to get past the system and take control).
The whole game is wrapped around this..it's not really that simple, but you should've picked up on it at some point.
I don't know, you don't seem to be following the story very well. Snake, Otacon and friendsDax01 said:
figured it out for themselves putting together the clues gathered from Metal Gear Mk.II and everything else they heard during the Act 4 Mission Briefing. The rest was all part of Ocelot's plan so she had to help them out.
As already explained, Naomi never had to tell Ocelot where the nuke is because he was in on the plan. Why would Ocelot need to know where REX's nuke is when he knew everything about the Shadow Moses incident and it's aftermath? He was one of the masterminds behind it, after all.
As already explained, Naomi never had to tell Ocelot where the nuke is because he was in on the plan. Why would Ocelot need to know where REX's nuke is when he knew everything about the Shadow Moses incident and it's aftermath? He was one of the masterminds behind it, after all.
Solideliquid
Member
Dax01 said:
Well according to the story Ocelot needed Snake to implant the virus, as only he could do it? Not entirely sure why Ocelot couldn't just walk over and do it himself. Did they need Snake's biometric info to give GW access to JD/the rest?
Solideliquid said:
Because 2 things
1. Ocelot didn't have the virus, no way to implant it. He needed someone else to finish it.
2. If ocelot would of tried the patriot system would of taken him down if he got close enough. The patriots wanted snake to get close since they thought he was going to save them.
1. Ocelot didn't have the virus, no way to implant it. He needed someone else to finish it.
2. If ocelot would of tried the patriot system would of taken him down if he got close enough. The patriots wanted snake to get close since they thought he was going to save them.
The Librarian
Banned
I had forgotten that whathirokazu said:
Ocelot said to Vamp about it being all apart of the plan.
DancingCactus77
Member
I look forward to a few years (months?) from now when essays will be written about this game and the complete summary of the story. :lol As for now, I am too busy replaying the game to understand every little detail in the last act.
Again, it's derived from the MGS3 Main Theme, which is significantly different to the MGS/MGS2 version. Strictly speaking, there is no one true "Main Theme," so you could say the theme is in the game, but when most people talk about the theme, they're usually referring to the MGS/MGS2 version, which is definitely not there.1stStrike said:
I hope this doesn't spark another argument about the whole theme issue. :/
That came up within 30 seconds of the fight for me. Mission briefing spoilers:jaaz said:
If you haven't noticed, one of the monitors on the Mac Pro that Sunny uses sometimes says HIDEO2 or something similar in the corner, as will the TV on the top floor of the Nomad when it has a blue screen. The interactive TV segment at the start also has HIDEO1 and HIDEO2 channels. 
The real easter egg in that fight is when
the game appears to reset, and the Konami logo shows up, except it says "Kojima," followed by the KP logo, except it says "Kojima Protection." Reminds me of the insanity stuff from Eternal Darkness, although all of that was directly inspired by the original MGS themselves.
The Librarian
Banned
Just finished Act 4. Holy shit what an epic ending. I didn't realize
Raiden was that strong, strong enough to hold back a ship of that size for those crucial seconds.
hirokazu said:That came up within 30 seconds of the fight for me. Mission briefing spoilers:If you haven't noticed, one of the monitors on the Mac Pro that Sunny uses sometimes says HIDEO2 or something similar in the corner, as will the TV on the top floor of the Nomad when it has a blue screen. The interactive TV segment at the start also has HIDEO1 and HIDEO2 channels.
The real easter egg in that fight is whenthe game appears to reset, and the Konami logo shows up, except it says "Kojima," followed by the KP logo, except it says "Kojima Protection." Reminds me of the insanity stuff from Eternal Darkness, although all of that was directly inspired by the original MGS themselves.
Protip:
Check out my MGS4 theme and look at the display settings
DancingCactus77 said:
I'll try + look this one up further, but their relationship chart looked like this :
Big Boss - Null/Grey Fox (joins Big Boss)- Naomi Hunter(adopted by Grey Fox, after he kills her family).
Naomi more or less has an indirect history with Big Boss through Grey Fox.
Naomi more or less has an indirect history with Big Boss through Grey Fox.
DancingCactus77
Member
Yeah...
but why wasn't Raiden strong enough to free himself from the rocks but was strong enough to halt the progress of a ship! That blows my mind in a negative way.
Dax01 said:
EekTheKat said:
Wasn't one of Naomi's lines in MGS1 (and is in MGS4 as well) "You killed my benefactor and sent my brother home a cripple." Did she mean Big Boss was her benefactor or was she talking about Grey Fox in both cases? Either way it also says in the timelines that Naomi and Grey Fox were brought to the USA by Big Boss himself, so I would assume she knew him at least a little. Also did it ever say in MGS4 that Big Boss was in contact with Naomi? She joine dup with Ocelot and Eva to get him back basically. Either in MGS1 or sometime after. Then Big Boss probably learned of what she did after he was reawakened. Probably by a message left for him.
Rahxephon91
Banned
God act 3 is so crappy. I didn't want to bore myself and tried just getting there on my own since I remembered where the place is. Sadly you can't do that.
Please take this out in any -stence version Kojima and just put in some awesome solo stealth.
Please take this out in any -stence version Kojima and just put in some awesome solo stealth.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
Act 3's alright, put on the NV goggles and keep looking behind you :lol.......
Well I finished it tonight 17 hours and 44 minutes on solid normal.
So it's certainly the longest metal gear solid by a good few hours of course... I'd estimate that if a first timer wanted to skip the entire storyline they could pull it off in 6 hours or less.
Without going into much detail I'll say that MGS3 and 4 together more then redeem kojima for the mess the second game was. For the record I"m not a raiden hater either I just hated alot of aspects of 2's gameplay.
I may get lynched for it but I still consider the original psone metal gear solid to be the best one in the series. It's simple and easy to play , has fun boss encounters and doesn't have all the existential storyline stuff .. well atleast not as bad as the other 3 have it.
Metal Gear Solid- 5/5
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of liberty - 3.5/5 and I"m being generous
Metal Gear solid 3: Snake Eater - 4/5
Metal Gear solid 4: Guns of the patriots 4.5/5
Never played portable ops.
So it's certainly the longest metal gear solid by a good few hours of course... I'd estimate that if a first timer wanted to skip the entire storyline they could pull it off in 6 hours or less.
Without going into much detail I'll say that MGS3 and 4 together more then redeem kojima for the mess the second game was. For the record I"m not a raiden hater either I just hated alot of aspects of 2's gameplay.
I may get lynched for it but I still consider the original psone metal gear solid to be the best one in the series. It's simple and easy to play , has fun boss encounters and doesn't have all the existential storyline stuff .. well atleast not as bad as the other 3 have it.
Metal Gear Solid- 5/5
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of liberty - 3.5/5 and I"m being generous
Metal Gear solid 3: Snake Eater - 4/5
Metal Gear solid 4: Guns of the patriots 4.5/5
Never played portable ops.
For me the biggest problem is MGS4's story.
Kojima basically thinks he can explain any thing with "nanomachines" and some technical mumbo jumbo that he thinks everyone would buy into. On top of that having every character inter-connected - all of them having their own underdeveloped story archs - he has made the whole MGS universe into some stupid soap-opera.
What bugged me was that he made so many "impossible" things happen (even by MGS standards) for the sake of fan service, that it was hard to take anything seriously. MGS4 had great cutscenes but a nonsensical story that made it peripheral to the game.
In terms of story MGS1 is still king, as it remained a plot twisting pot-boiler thriller from start to finish. MGS4 on the other hand, turned into a self-indulgent military soap-opera.
I expect a roaring backlash on MGS4's story in the coming months.
Kojima basically thinks he can explain any thing with "nanomachines" and some technical mumbo jumbo that he thinks everyone would buy into. On top of that having every character inter-connected - all of them having their own underdeveloped story archs - he has made the whole MGS universe into some stupid soap-opera.
What bugged me was that he made so many "impossible" things happen (even by MGS standards) for the sake of fan service, that it was hard to take anything seriously. MGS4 had great cutscenes but a nonsensical story that made it peripheral to the game.
In terms of story MGS1 is still king, as it remained a plot twisting pot-boiler thriller from start to finish. MGS4 on the other hand, turned into a self-indulgent military soap-opera.
I expect a roaring backlash on MGS4's story in the coming months.
dermannmitdemcolt
Member
dmshaposv said:
Nah, don't see that. You guys fail to realise that the story of the predecessors suffered under similar problems - the nature of the story telling was always the same. And give me breake, MGS1 has the best Story of the Series? Credibility - 100
Jack Scofield
Member
hirokazu said:
Huh, I've never got that to happen to me. Are there any specific triggers for it, or does it just happen randomly?
Cartman86 said:
Big Boss was her benefactor, as he brought them back to the US. And Grey Fox was her brother. So, snake killed her benefactor (twice at that) and not only crippled, but killed her brother. And then he became the cyborg ninja thanks to Dr. Clark (Para-Medic).
hirokazu said:
like
Big Boss returning - possibly the major fuck up for me.
If Eva could reconstruct Big Boss, why not just give him back his eye? why make him so old? where does everyone keep getting Liquid's spare parts anyway (that too in good conditions)? wouldn't Liquid and Solidus's "parts" look different than Big Boss's - he should'nt even look like his former self.
I would've lived happily if Snake had commited suicide and there was no after credits sequence.
Also NO ONE questioned Ocelot suddenly being possessed by Liquid? wtf? No exposition on what convinced them on how liquid "lives on" as Ocelot.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
I would've lived happily if Snake had commited suicide and there was no after credits sequence.
Also NO ONE questioned Ocelot suddenly being possessed by Liquid? wtf? No exposition on what convinced them on how liquid "lives on" as Ocelot.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
dermannmitdemcolt said:
A tight narrative, well executed plot twists and message on nuclear proliferation that never became as preachy as any other issue raised by the sequels. All this too at a time when video game story's were just evolving.
Nah, you just have bad taste.
dmshaposv said:
I think he tried to make things to plausible with the story. He should've just kept the magic realism that he had going in the second and third games. And not explaining it with nano-machines and technicial mumbo-jumbo like the whole
vamp thing
liquid taking over ocelots body.
And @ bolded nah, the story is still pretty amazing imo, most of the negatives are things that the previous games had, but i consider those things to be traits of the series, and most of it's plot-holes stern from the fact that he re-wrote the storyline starting with 3, because of the backlash MGS 2 got.
dmshaposv said:
You're not looking at the entire Metal Gear Saga as a whole. Metal Gear Solid 1 is only one part of a very, very large puzzle.
The overall arc when pieced together is one very ambitious piece of writing, especially in the context of video game stories.
See my previous posts in this very thread to see what the main arc of the Metal Gear Solid series was really about, why Metal Gear Solid 3 is the most important game in the series (as it really does
anchor
Crazymoogle
Member
dmshaposv said:
Well...
Notice how solidus was missing a face?
Anyways:
We don't know the condition of Big Boss's remains. He had something left of him, but short of seeing him shirtless like Raiden we can't really tell what parts of him were stitched back together.
Re-attaching an optic nerve is nearly impossible, especially one that has basically been shut down for 30+ years. Sure, it's science fiction, but I don't think there has been a single example of an artificial eye in a human in the series. There's also no way to make him younger - it's just a matter of what face you see (I'm inclined to say that's his original face, but hell, in MGS2 it was obvious that Solidus was his mirror image.
It's definitely a question as to how the Patriots have managed to secure their remains so quickly; my only guess is that the Patriots have always had shadow units waiting to collect. Considering the value they place on the BB line, that's not so surprising.
Anyways:
We don't know the condition of Big Boss's remains. He had something left of him, but short of seeing him shirtless like Raiden we can't really tell what parts of him were stitched back together.
Re-attaching an optic nerve is nearly impossible, especially one that has basically been shut down for 30+ years. Sure, it's science fiction, but I don't think there has been a single example of an artificial eye in a human in the series. There's also no way to make him younger - it's just a matter of what face you see (I'm inclined to say that's his original face, but hell, in MGS2 it was obvious that Solidus was his mirror image.
It's definitely a question as to how the Patriots have managed to secure their remains so quickly; my only guess is that the Patriots have always had shadow units waiting to collect. Considering the value they place on the BB line, that's not so surprising.
dermannmitdemcolt
Member
dmshaposv said:
Yeah, like Master Miller. Or the whole Grey Fox thing, which you really shouldn't like...
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
Not really. If all but one actDurante said:
was focused on a warzone
Maybe imbalance isnt the right word to use in terms of gameplay. Its too diversified. I appreciate Kojima trying to
give us different things to do in each act, but I would rather see more warzone bits.
just beat it. i really want to make sure i understand it right: so in the end, the whole game was just a conspiracy to reboot the system? like ocelot/liquid, debin, naomi, big boss,etc....were all in it, together? so the system itself was just got so big, no one could fix it, so they send snake in to destroy it? and all the while snake and company are oblivious to being pawns of a larger grand scheme?
i really want to make sure i understand it right: so in the end, the whole game was just a conspiracy to reboot the system? like ocelot/liquid, debin, naomi, big boss,etc....were all in it, together? so the system itself was just got so big, no one could fix it, so they send snake in to destroy it? and all the while snake and company are oblivious to being pawns of a larger grand scheme?also, otacon made me really wanna get a macbook pro.
â Narayan
Member
Dax01 said:
He shouldn't have been able to. That entire scene is stupid. The fact that HE LIVES afterwards is even more ridiculous. I'm sure everyone who watched this part expected Raiden to be dead.
ALSO. Why isn't Nastasha in this? I completely expected her, considering that she FOUNDED PHILANTHROPY.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
For anyone who doesnt understand the
scenario, metal gear wiki has a small section about it that explains it well in a couple of lines.
Liquid ocelot
boco77 said:
You missed some shit. Seriously, pay attention. Big Boss was in a state of suspended animation for many years, basically. They rebuilt his body with parts from solidus and liquid (the left overs basically) and everything that had happened had been told to him.
He talks about returning everything to zero. The new generation shouldn't have to inherit the sins of the old generation (mainly, what he and major zero started). He already knows that snake was injected with a new kind of foxdie when he goes there; he basically goes there to die.
Their plan succeeded as Naomi and Sunny's virus destroyed all the AI's, right up to JD. However, as they describe it, they destroyed the brain but left the stem intact. So, the important parts of society were able to continue functioning (food and such) while the war portion had been completely disabled.
He talks about returning everything to zero. The new generation shouldn't have to inherit the sins of the old generation (mainly, what he and major zero started). He already knows that snake was injected with a new kind of foxdie when he goes there; he basically goes there to die.
Their plan succeeded as Naomi and Sunny's virus destroyed all the AI's, right up to JD. However, as they describe it, they destroyed the brain but left the stem intact. So, the important parts of society were able to continue functioning (food and such) while the war portion had been completely disabled.
U K Narayan said:
If you remember from MGS2, Nastasha wrote a book about shadow mosses, made a huge profit and retired. We never hear from her again after that as she no longer takes part in any sort of military operations. As far as we know. I mean, for all we know she could've been assasinated for revealing what happened in shadow mosses or something. But, that's never touched on again after they say she's retired. So, that's all we have to go on.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
Yeah i was a bit surprised she was never in it. However, Snake doesnt work forU K Narayan said:
Philantrophy
nastascha
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
dp
dermannmitdemcolt
Member
boco77 said:
Yeah, I think it's pretty simple...we know that Ocelot idolized him and Eva was still in love. It's natural that they wanted to bring him back to live, given the chance.
Lostconfused
Member
And thats the other thing.psycho_snake said:
The storyline of mgs4 has pretty much nothing to do with Metal Gear/walking nuclear tank. This is like the only MGS game where a new metal gear wasn't introduced. No the mark 2 or 3 doesnt count. Of course leaving philanthropy is never explained but then again it doesnt need to because apparently metal gears are no longer a concern and there is no reason for philanthropy to exist anymore.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Lostconfused said:
Gekkos.
If you read the database, they carry the designation of Metal Gear because they don't ALWAYS carry a nuclear payload.
Plus, you've got the Arsenal Ship/Outer Haven, which is kinda like Arsenal Gear.
Plus, you've got the Arsenal Ship/Outer Haven, which is kinda like Arsenal Gear.
Always-honest
Banned
just finished the game. Great. going to play it again.
i do have very mixed feelings about some of the cutscenes though... although the production quality is very high, some are just tooo cheesy. i read stories about people crying over these cutscenes.... come on now.. i felt emberrassed half the time. it just doesn't work.
Some bossfights were just too easy and the A.i of the enemy soldiers is bud spencer movie level, but i guess it's meant to be that way.
another gripe (probably shared by many): too many loadtimes and too many times pressing the start button..
still one of the very best games i played.
i do have very mixed feelings about some of the cutscenes though... although the production quality is very high, some are just tooo cheesy. i read stories about people crying over these cutscenes.... come on now.. i felt emberrassed half the time. it just doesn't work.
Some bossfights were just too easy and the A.i of the enemy soldiers is bud spencer movie level, but i guess it's meant to be that way.
another gripe (probably shared by many): too many loadtimes and too many times pressing the start button..
still one of the very best games i played.
â Narayan
Member
Are we completely positive that Philanthropy doesn't exist anymore? How did they get the Nomad? Isn't that Philanthropy's plane?Lostconfused said:
I know I'm going to get backlash for saying this, but this game is pretty much 70% fanservice. Not that I'm saying it's a bad thing, I just wish that Kojima had this thing stand on its own legs - rather than it being mostly derivative.
Arsenal Gear =/= Metal Gearthetrin said:
Otacon explains this :
For all intents and purposes the
Irving/Gekko
It's a new type of Metal Gear for a new age basically
This is part of the reason why Old Snake is
old...the battlefield is passing him by and he's slowly finding himself not needed anymore.
psycho_snake said:
Thanks that helped. I was really confused
about the ending...I wasn't sure if the whole "take down GW/JD" was a ploy at resetting the system when, in fact, Snake/Ocelot really were after the same things. I couldn't get over the fact that nobody was really, actually, bad, or EVIL. The evil WAS the SYSTEM.
Liquid Ocelot - FTA said:
Lostconfused
Member
BigBoss said:
Ok fine it wasn't bipedal.
â Narayan
Member
Shagohod - while not officially a Metal Gear, was a moving nuclear platform. It was very close to being a Metal Gear. The only thing it needed was legs.BigBoss said:
And, if that doesn't cut it for you, the actual concept of a Metal Gear is mentioned in the game.
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