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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie

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A

Attack You

Member
boco77 said:
I wasnt talking about their plan to get rid of the AI, I was talking about their plan to bring back Big Boss only to have him die again from FOXDIE. I have paid attention and you avoided my question of the reason for them trying to bring him back, as there was absolutely no reason behind it other than him being a legend they wanted him to live on?..it wasn't so he could die again and return to zero wtf. If that was the case they wouldnt even have bothered to get bits of Solidus to reconstruct him.
Click to expand...

Ocelot and Eva may have wanted Big Boss back, but I think the fact that Big Boss approached Snake at the memorial knowing he was carrying FOXDIE is reason enough to believe Big Boss didn't exactly want to come back or stay around long. There's at least a couple reasons for why Big Boss could've felt this way: Everyone he cared for has passed on, so he didn't have anything left to live for, or maybe he holds himself responsible for a lot of the shit that happened ever since Operation Snake Eater and just wants to be absolved of that burden. Another angle to consider is that Big Boss is probably very adverse to the science that brought him back to life. As I understand it (from the Database), he split from Zero over the issue of cloning -- only to be given life by two of those clones and killed three times by another.

Really though, none of that is meant to be a definitive explanation for his motives. Not everything is meant to be explained away in a clear and concise manner. People don't always make the best of sense, nor the best decisions. Some allowances have to be made for "free will" and "human emotion."
 
T

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
U K Narayan said:
Arsenal Gear =/= Metal Gear
Click to expand...

Clearly.

U K Narayan said:
Shagohod - while not officially a Metal Gear, was a moving nuclear platform. It was very close to being a Metal Gear. The only thing it needed was legs.

And, if that doesn't cut it for you, the actual concept of a Metal Gear is mentioned in the game.
Click to expand...

If Shagohod is "basically" a metal gear, then so are gekkos.
 
1

1stStrike

Banned
boco77 said:
I wasnt talking about their plan to get rid of the AI, I was talking about their plan to bring back Big Boss only to have him die again from FOXDIE. I have paid attention and you avoided my question of the reason for them trying to bring him back, as there was absolutely no reason behind it other than him being a legend they wanted him to live on?..it wasn't so he could die again and return to zero wtf. If that was the case they wouldnt even have bothered to get bits of Solidus to reconstruct him.
Click to expand...

They were working to free him and reconstruct him. They accomplished their goal, but Big Boss made the decision himself. He obviously knew that snake had foxdie. He was obviously filled in on the past..otherwise he wouldn't have even known about foxdie in the first place as it was created after snake beat him years before shadow mosses took place.

So, I'm guessing he simply decided to confront his past and square things away before he passes on. I mean, his last line is, "This is good...isn't it?". He was obviously walking into this prepared for death himself.

If you sit there and analyze any story enough, you can find inconsistencies. What people need to remember is that this is a -game- provided for entertainment. The metal gear series has had a great run over the years, and yes, some plot holes remain, but overall it was wrapped up nicely with a very touching ending. I was definitely blown away when I saw
Big Boss standing in front of snake and I'm glad that Snake finally gets a bit of peace and has the chance to enjoy what remains of his life in his final days.

Edit: Attack You said pretty much the same thing too.
 
H

hirokazu

Member
dmshaposv said:
Also NO ONE questioned
Ocelot suddenly being possessed by Liquid? wtf? No exposition on what convinced them on how liquid "lives on" as Ocelot.
Click to expand...
I think the all the characters' WTFs at Liquid taking over Ocelot's mind from a hand happened starting from the end of the Tanker chapter of MGS2. Sure it's a strange phenomenon, but I think all the characters have pretty much gone past the WTF stage and pretty much taken it for granted, given that 7 years had passed since that event, and 5 years since the conclusion to MGS2.

As for an explanation for people playing the game, I think MGS4 and the Database explain Liquid Ocelot pretty well.

I think, if you nitpick it like that, then you might as well also ask, "What, how does Psycho Mantis manage to do all those things in the original MGS?" or "How is it possible for Vamp to walk on water like that in MGS2?"

Let's face it, the entire series is full of mysterious, seemingly impossible stuff like that. Some are eventually revealed to have some sort of sci-fi explanation, while others are left unexplained.
 
D

Doc Evils

Member
2pzcwh2.jpg


:)
 
H

hirokazu

Member
thetrin said:
If Shagohod is "basically" a metal gear, then so are gekkos.
Click to expand...
Well Shagohad is pretty much a precursor to the Metal Gears, an early implementation of it. Similarly, the Gekko are the more commercialized military robots derived directly from Metal Gear technology, so they're like the spiritual successors.

Anyway, I don't see the need to say "Hay guyz, this game is called Metal Gear but there's no Metal Gears in it, LOLz." The game is very much a Metal Gear game, there's no doubt about it.
 
T

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
U K Narayan said:
I don't disagree with this.
Click to expand...

In which case the argument that the game introduces no new metal gear is completely false.
 
H

hirokazu

Member
Jack Scofield said:
Huh, I've never got that to happen to me. Are there any specific triggers for it, or does it just happen randomly?
Click to expand...
It seemed random to me. It happened between 5-10 minutes after the battle started, IIRC.
 
B

Blablurn

Member
got a question. i just obtaiend the
solar gun
. i saved this date and started my 6th run. i played till i met the MK II. but there was no
solar gun
in the menu..

WTF?!
 
H

hirokazu

Member
Doc Evils said:
Came with Famitsu PS3 from Japan.

Holyshit, 1 million only in Europe?!


RYAN PAYTON REDEEMED!
Click to expand...
Oh. I thought because it had that logo (or whatever it is) in the top right, this was what happened to the guy who posted a screenshot of a poster they were working on several pages back.

What issue of Famitsu PS3 is it? I might check Kinokuniya this week to see if they have it.

I wish Konami would release that picture in high-res. The wallpaper they released just doesn't cut it. :p
 
M

Malfunky

Member
Solideliquid said:
Was it ever explained why the BB are named after the Foxhound members of MGS1? Did Ocelot do it just to mess with Snake's mind?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure after one of the fights, Drebin explains how one of the BBs "inherited" the title from a previous soldier. I think it was Mantis. I assumed this meant code names are passed down to the next generation. One example, though obviously a very unique situation, could be the name Snake. From Naked to Solid to Liquid(assuming Liquid received the title of Snake after Solid left FOXHOUND).

Otherwise, I think the answer would be.. fanservice.
 
A

atomico

Member
rager said:
Just finished Act 3. OMG!!!! What an experience. The chase scene, everything. I almost teared up. This is truly the game of the forever, no game has EVER made me feel this way.

I cannot go any further tonight, my heart is racing, I have to get to sleep and tackle Act 4 tomorrow.

I don't want this game to end.
Click to expand...


this. except I couldn't help taking a little peek at what's in store for act 4.

and I'm not saying a damn thing about it. nobody should give away a single detail about this game, dammit
:lol



can't wait till I get home tonight
 
C

Chinner

Banned
dmshaposv said:

I expect a roaring backlash on MGS4's story in the coming months.
Click to expand...
Its already happened with the very hardcore MGS fans and fan sites. Sites like MGS:TUS are trying to damage control it by saying Kojima made it intentionally bad to insult his fans. Or some crazy shit.

I'm pretty sure most other fans will remain liking it.
 
E

EekTheKat

Member
boco77 said:
I wasnt talking about their plan to get rid of the AI, I was talking about their plan to bring back Big Boss only to have him die again from FOXDIE. I have paid attention and you avoided my question of the reason for them trying to bring him back, as there was absolutely no reason behind it other than him being a legend they wanted him to live on?..it wasn't so he could die again and return to zero wtf. If that was the case they wouldnt even have bothered to get bits of Solidus to reconstruct him.
Click to expand...

Fun fact, one of the actors in one of the live action segments is the voice of
Big Boss
. Specifically
the "Regis" like gameshow host guy

Now on to the Big Boss story (lots of text here, it's like 4:30am and I'm dead tired so I'll try + make some corrections here if it looks weird) :

Big Boss
physically and mentally was never dead. His body was just massively burned after Snake took him out a second time with a can of hair spray and a cigarette lighter. He was implanted with nanomachines, kept in a state of eternal sleep. His mind was locked away with a similar technology that was used in the B+B corps.

Keep in mind that Big Boss and Zero had a *huge* falling out. Among of which, Big Boss was the figurehead, someone that was used by Zero to establish the Patriots as an organization, while Zero maintained all the "control."

Why did the Patriots keep him alive in that state? Because despite the differences between Big Boss and Zero, Big Boss was still the ultimate solider, or as MGS3 put it, he was better than the Boss. He was also a key figure behind the rise of the Patriots, and soldier that pretty much everyone looked up to on the battlefield - some were even willing to die for him.

Plus his body had potential "scientific" uses, (genome experiments, for example. Maybe there's a scientific reason why Big Boss was such a good soldier).

It's interesting to note : Team Big Boss consists of Eva and Ocelot, both of whom were active in the field with Big Boss. While Team Zero (Patriots) consisted of Signit and Para-Medic.

Upon learning the true fate of Big Boss (which isn't a huge stretch for Eva and Ocelot, two characters that were established spies in the MGS world), Eva and Ocelot both leave the Patriots, where Ocelot chooses to do so secretly, as he would use his position within the Patriots to further their cause to rescue Big Boss.

There's a couple ways to interpret the ending
Snake was about to kill himself, but he's at a grave site where the Boss is buried. Pay attention to the fact that before he tries to kill himself, he notices that someone had placed flowers at The Boss's grave - this is pretty much the HUGE sign that Big Boss is still alive.

If you take Snake out of the ending, it would actually still work to some extent, it just wouldn't deliver that element of closure that is the Father - Son arc between Big Boss and Solid Snake : after the events of MGS4 wrapped up, Big Boss finds Zero. Upon discovering that Zero was pretty much a invalid, in a symbolic gesture he takes Zero to the grave of the Boss, and was planning to end Zero's life there - much like what we see in the actual ending.

But let's go back to the actual ending a bit

Before he switches off Zero's air supply, it's important to note that he ponders whether or not Zero really hated or feared him. Zero and Big Boss was close at one point, and they drifted apart from a difference in ideologies. Zero was also the last remaining member of the Patriots "family" that Big Boss had.

Big Boss also realizes that every member of the original Patriots are now dead, everyone that tried to revive him were all gone, and even his "Sons" were all dead, with the exception of one Solid Snake. Snake unfortunately was infected with the new Foxdie and at this point would mean the death of him if big boss chose to reconcile/accept Solid Snake as a son in person. Oddly enough, what would kill Big Boss was also what would extend/keep Solid Snake alive.

One of the reveals at the end was Big Boss considered himself "dead" emotionally and spiritually ever since he killed The Boss. At the end of the game Big Boss was pretty much just a shell of himself with literally nothing left to live for. Most of what's important in his life was dead, so he chooses to reconcile/accept the one "son" that was still alive, at the cost of his own life.
 
D

Doc Evils

Member
EekTheKat said:
Fun fact, one of the actors in one of the live action segments is the voice of
Big Boss
. Specifically
the "Regis" like gameshow host guy

Now on to the Big Boss story (lots of text here, it's like 4:30am and I'm dead tired so I'll try + make some corrections here if it looks weird) :

Big Boss
physically and mentally was never dead. His body was just massively burned after Snake took him out a second time with a can of hair spray and a cigarette lighter. He was implanted with nanomachines, kept in a state of eternal sleep. His mind was locked away with a similar technology that was used in the B+B corps.

Keep in mind that Big Boss and Zero had a *huge* falling out. Among of which, Big Boss was the figurehead, someone that was used by Zero to establish the Patriots as an organization, while Zero maintained all the "control."

Why did the Patriots keep him alive in that state? Because despite the differences between Big Boss and Zero, Big Boss was still the ultimate solider, or as MGS3 put it, he was better than the Boss. He was also a key figure behind the rise of the Patriots, and soldier that pretty much everyone looked up to on the battlefield - some were even willing to die for him.

Plus his body had potential "scientific" uses, (genome experiments, for example. Maybe there's a scientific reason why Big Boss was such a good soldier).

It's interesting to note : Team Big Boss consists of Eva and Ocelot, both of whom were active in the field with Big Boss. While Team Zero (Patriots) consisted of Signit and Para-Medic.

Upon learning the true fate of Big Boss (which isn't a huge stretch for Eva and Ocelot, two characters that were established spies in the MGS world), Eva and Ocelot both leave the Patriots, where Ocelot chooses to do so secretly, as he would use his position within the Patriots to further their cause to rescue Big Boss.

There's a couple ways to interpret the ending
Snake was about to kill himself, but he's at a grave site where the Boss is buried. Pay attention to the fact that before he tries to kill himself, he notices that someone had placed flowers at The Boss's grave - this is pretty much the HUGE sign that Big Boss is still alive.

If you take Snake out of the ending, it would actually still work to some extent, it just wouldn't deliver that element of closure that is the Father - Son arc between Big Boss and Solid Snake : after the events of MGS4 wrapped up, Big Boss finds Zero. Upon discovering that Zero was pretty much a invalid, in a symbolic gesture he takes Zero to the grave of the Boss, and was planning to end Zero's life there - much like what we see in the actual ending.

But let's go back to the actual ending a bit

Before he switches off Zero's air supply, it's important to note that he ponders whether or not Zero really hated or feared him. Zero and Big Boss was close at one point, and they drifted apart from a difference in ideologies. Zero was also the last remaining member of the Patriots "family" that Big Boss had.

Big Boss also realizes that every member of the original Patriots are now dead, everyone that tried to revive him were all gone, and even his "Sons" were all dead, with the exception of one Solid Snake. Snake unfortunately was infected with the new Foxdie and at this point would mean the death of him if big boss chose to reconcile/accept Solid Snake as a son in person. Oddly enough, what would kill Big Boss was also what would extend/keep Solid Snake alive.

One of the reveals at the end was Big Boss considered himself "dead" emotionally and spiritually ever since he killed The Boss. At the end of the game Big Boss was pretty much just a shell of himself with literally nothing left to live for. Most of what's important in his life was dead, so he chooses to reconcile/accept the one "son" that was still alive, at the cost of his own life.
Click to expand...

bravo.

This should be in the op for confused noobs.
 
G

Gamer @ Heart

Member
That was a nice analysis. Big Boss however never accepted son as a son, only as a solder. He killed himself by meeting snake to set the record straight and eliminate the final players of the Patriot era. This was not a world he could live in, nor was it a world he would have wanted to live in. Like you kat, he had nothing to live for.
 
D

darkjacob

Banned
Chinner said:
Its hardly happened with the very hardcore MGS fans and fan sites. Sites like MGS:TUS are trying to damage control it by saying Kojima made it intentionally bad to insult his fans. Or some crazy shit.

I'm pretty sure most other fans will remain liking it.
Click to expand...
That whole forum is a joke, people are just hard to impress.
 
D

Darkpen

Banned
EekTheKat said:
Fun fact, one of the actors in one of the live action segments is the voice of
Big Boss
. Specifically
the "Regis" like gameshow host guy
Click to expand...
Is it just me, or is Cam Clarke one of the voices for the underwater octopus clip?
 
D

DunpealD

Member
Gamer @ Heart said:
That was a nice analysis. Big Boss however never accepted son as a son, only as a solder. He killed himself by meeting snake to set the record straight and eliminate the final players of the Patriot era. This was not a world he could live in, nor was it a world he would have wanted to live in. Like you kat, he had nothing to live for.
Click to expand...

They don't have to slap every answer straight to your face
like "Snake my son", you know. I really wonder if you have really SEEN the end :/ because it was more than obvious that he HAS accepted him as a son/brother. Also if you have indeed played MGS 1 you should know the significance of Big Boss appearing at the end.
 
D

darkjacob

Banned
dermannmitdemcolt said:
I don't know whats the deal with these guy. They've been negative on the series since Snake Eater.
Click to expand...
With the negatives they put out, I dont think they have been impressed with a MGS game since MGS 1.:lol :lol :lol
 
P

Phatcorns

Member
DunpealD said:
They don't have to slap every answer straight to your face
like "Snake my son", you know. I really wonder if you have really SEEN the end :/ because it was more than obvious that he HAS accepted him as a son/brother(?). Also if you have indeed played MGS 1 you should know the significance of Big Boss appearing at the end.
Click to expand...

Dude, he says outright and this is pretty much verbatim "I never accepted you as a son, but I respected you as a soldier."
 
O

Orlics

Member
1 million first week in Europe is great news, but isn't Ryan Payton's infamous quote "1 million day one?" He took it back anyway.

Also one line that confused me in the epilogue:
Big Boss: Good to see you son, or should I say, brother.

Brother? Maybe brother-in-arms or comrade would have been a better translation. Why brother? Somewhere out there some idiot who didn't pay attention in the other MGS games is going "OMG BIG BOSS IS SnAKE'S BROTHER LOL"
 
F

flipping_heck

Member
Ok, i just beaten Raging Raven, which was a pretty annoying but not hard boss.. in any case, i was treated with a loooooonnng cutscene.. again.. and again.. goddammit, this game is on one hand boring me to death but also exciting me with the gameplay. atm, Snake Eater is a much better game than this, the constant loading/installing (especially when me and my bro have to switch between saves) annoys me alot as well. This is next-gen people, and im getting annoyed by it!
 
T

TomO

Member
Would anyone be able to do me a massive favour and take a non-watermarked HD screen cap of Drebin talking about one of the Beauty and the Beast unit bosses after they've been defeated? I need a shot of the codec screen.

It's a long shot I know. To clarify, it's the screen shown in this video. Be warned - the video features spoilers for anyone who hasn't beaten
Laughing Octopus, Raging Raven and Crying Wolf
.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=n7Y6yJayvx4

I will be eternally grateful if anyone can help me out.
 
O

Orlics

Member
dermannmitdemcolt said:
I don't know whats the deal with these guy. They've been negative on the series since Snake Eater.
Click to expand...

Hardcore MGS fans will tell you that while Snake Eater is a great and fun game, it retconned some things and was a letdown as a Metal Gear Solid game after MGS2.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Orlics said:
Hardcore MGS fans will tell you that while Snake Eater is a great and fun game, it retconned some things and was a letdown as a Metal Gear Solid game after MGS2.
Click to expand...
Hardcore (read: elitist) MGS fans can join hardcore Metroid and Resident Evil fans in kissing my ass.
 
D

dermannmitdemcolt

Member
Orlics said:
Hardcore MGS fans will tell you that while Snake Eater is a great and fun game, it retconned some things and was a letdown as a Metal Gear Solid game after MGS2.
Click to expand...

Well, I actually agree with this to some extent. But it's still an impressive game. MGS4 even more so.
 
D

DunpealD

Member
Phatcorns said:
Dude, he says outright and this is pretty much verbatim "I never accepted you as a son, but I respected you as a soldier."
Click to expand...

It's in the past tense for your information. Instead of putting more weight into the words you should look at what's happening on the screen, because it says more than 1000 words.

@Orlics
He said brother, because Snake is a clone of him so both(son and brother) are relatively correct.
 
S

Steiner_Zi

Member
Orlics said:
Hardcore MGS fans will tell you that while Snake Eater is a great and fun game, it retconned some things and was a letdown as a Metal Gear Solid game after MGS2.
Click to expand...
I am a hardcore MGS fan and I think that Snake Eater is vastly superior to MGS2. So what?
 
S

SMZC

Member
Chinner said:
Its hardly happened with the very hardcore MGS fans and fan sites. Sites like MGS:TUS are trying to damage control it by saying Kojima made it intentionally bad to insult his fans. Or some crazy shit.
Click to expand...

Because that's exactly what MGS4 is.

Someone who has merely played and enjoyed the series will probably enjoy MGS4's story and not find anything wrong with it. On the other hand, those who have memorized the scripts of all of the games due to having played them so much can't possibly accept the ridiculously bad storyline and twists that MGS4 throws at us.

It's like seeing Kojima spit on the whole series. And it's not pretty.
 
D

DihcarEM

Member
Phatcorns said:
Dude, he says outright and this is pretty much verbatim "I never accepted you as a son, but I respected you as a soldier."
Click to expand...


No, what he says is "I never thought of you as a son but i did respect you as a man and a soldier." Or something along those lines, more importently he is talking in past tense. When he greets Snake at the graveyard, he calls him son. In the end Big Boss did accept Snake as his son, the only one. He doesn't seem to hold any feelings for Liquid or Solidus, coldly reffering as to why he looks normal, a clone('s body was used).
I personaly believe that BB is quite proud of Snake, he's the only one that succeeded in growing out of BB's shadow, the other two were always simply clones.

Damm, beaten.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
SMZC said:
Because that's exactly what MGS4 is.

Someone who has merely played and enjoyed the series will probably enjoy MGS4's story and not find anything wrong with it. On the other hand, those who have memorized the scripts of all of the games due to having played them so much can't possibly accept the ridiculously bad storyline and twists that MGS4 throws at us.

It's like seeing Kojima spit on the whole series. And it's not pretty.
Click to expand...
See here's the problem with fans like you. You assume the developers of the game owe you something.

Long story short: they don't.
 
K

kamorra

Fuck Cancer
SMZC said:
Because that's exactly what MGS4 is.

Someone who has merely played and enjoyed the series will probably enjoy MGS4's story and not find anything wrong with it. On the other hand, those who have memorized the scripts of all of the games due to having played them so much can't possibly accept the ridiculously bad storyline and twists that MGS4 throws at us.

It's like seeing Kojima spit on the whole series. And it's not pretty.
Click to expand...

This thread proves you wrong. Actually guys who didn't like the game, which is perfectly acceptable, are in a very small minority.
If you guys don't liked the game, fine I couldn't care less. To each his own. But please stop to preach that your point of view is superior and don't tell us how we should feel about it.
 
T

tha_con

Banned
SMZC said:
Because that's exactly what MGS4 is.

Someone who has merely played and enjoyed the series will probably enjoy MGS4's story and not find anything wrong with it. On the other hand, those who have memorized the scripts of all of the games due to having played them so much can't possibly accept the ridiculously bad storyline and twists that MGS4 throws at us.

It's like seeing Kojima spit on the whole series. And it's not pretty.
Click to expand...

facepalm.jpg
 
G

Gamer @ Heart

Member
DunpealD said:
They don't have to slap every answer straight to your face
like "Snake my son", you know. I really wonder if you have really SEEN the end :/ because it was more than obvious that he HAS accepted him as a son/brother. Also if you have indeed played MGS 1 you should know the significance of Big Boss appearing at the end.
Click to expand...

I have seen the end, about 3 times now. I i distinctly remember
big boss saying something along the lines of "I have never seen you as a son....*something*, but i have always repected you as a solder, and a man.

What are you trying to argue exactly?

Edit: Appears i was beaten several posts above this.
 
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