-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
- Status
MiamiWesker
Member
I am having this discussion in another forum, which game do you guys think is bigger (gameplay only), MGS3 or MGS4. I know it gets hard to quantify what "bigger" is. The way I see bigger it means more gameplay room, more gameplay options, basically more game to play. I feel that MGS4 offers more game, I think there are larger areas, more paths to take than MGS3 offers, more options in how you tackle any given section, it has more scripted events, etc. The potential to just screw around in the game world is larger than in MGS3.
Even if you just run as fast as you can through both games I think MGS4 may take longer, I think mainly cause there are many scripted events that take a certain amount of time. I dont think MGS4 is longer by much, but I think it is the biggest MGS game gameplay wise.
So what do you guys think?
Even if you just run as fast as you can through both games I think MGS4 may take longer, I think mainly cause there are many scripted events that take a certain amount of time. I dont think MGS4 is longer by much, but I think it is the biggest MGS game gameplay wise.
So what do you guys think?
Ken Masters
Banned
for taking out Wolf by non lethal means:
How should I approach this and are the frogs once again off limits to kill?
Giant Robot
Member
MiamiWesker said:
initially i thought MGS3 had way more gameplay to offer. Lots of things to do that all differentiated itself from all the other gameply mechanics, but were pretty linear to do. first reaction to MGS4 on first playthrough was that it felt like there wasnt much to do in terms of gameplay variety. I just gunned it through for the story line, but not im going back on the second playthroughs on harder difficulty and find it way more involving than MGS3 in a non-linear way. I just miss things like hunting for food, healing yourself, hiding sodlier's body,epic boss fights, bosses had more variety/strategies in MGS3 vs. MGS4. MGS3 just felt more varied because it was more linear and forced you to do something a certain way. MGS4 feels a bit more infinite as there are endless possibilities to approach something.
MiamiWesker
Member
Giant Robot said:
Yes in regards to finding secrets and easter eggs I think MGS3 crushes MGS4. I loved the amount of things you can do with all the animals you find. Like tranq a scorpion and throw it on guards. Or get a poisoned or rotten food and use it to trick Fear into eating it. Also the amount of optional codec calls was incredible, and the uses of the radio was brilliant. In that way yeah, MGS3 offers more.
Giant Robot
Member
MiamiWesker said:
but if u play mgs4 again, there are TONS and TONS of stuff for you to find out on your own, and its all pretty legit things too, not just silly easter eggs. In that sense MGS3 felt "forced" or "here you go, the secrets and easter eggs are here, figure out how to reach it." whereas in MGS4 everything is there, its up to you how if you want to pursue it. The Official Guide is valuable and finding a lot of these things out in MGS4.
KennyLinder
Member
Act 3 boss question:
If I tranq a Slider (the flying things) during the Raging Raven boss fight do they count as kills? I know Geckos do not, so wondering about these!
KennyLinder
Member
Cheers Big Boss!
Red Blaster
Member
MiamiWesker said:
To deviate from the "size" argument a bit, MGS3 featured the most unbalanced gameplay in the series thanks to the fact Naked Snake was a bullet-sponge, even on the higher difficulties. This alone sours some of the openness of MGS3 because there's less tension compared to MGS2 and MGS4.
On the subject of the Codec in MGS4, I noticed that the strategy guide says "there are literally hundreds of optional codec exchanges available". I've attempted to dig around for these by repeatedly calling Otacon and it seems that there are a set number of exchanges per area. Granted, you get the "Snake, hurry to the objective!" message quite often but there are definitely some interesting conversations tucked away in there. There's a good one with Rose about a ration swapmeet Campbell went to where he slyly puts down her cooking.
super-heated plasma
Member
Ken Masters
Banned
Where specifically is "the best is yet to come" IPOD track located in act
?
4
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Bizzyb said:
I believe its in the Act 2 mission briefing. You have to use the MK 2 to get it.
disappeared
Banned
Doc Evils said:
Depends on how much of a collector you are. Myself, I have a whopping 35 different versions of MGS, MGS2, and MGS3 as well as various other MGS shit, so I'd bite. So yeah, if you want to go hardcore and collect the rare stuff, power to you.
Have they ever released any passwords yet?
In my guide book there is a "Custom 1911" that can only be unlocked via a password. I am assuming that's a total nod to MGS3.
Another thing, have any of you emblem unlocking nuts noticed getting anything in MGO for it? Would be neat to get an eyepatch or something for MGO... :lol
In my guide book there is a "Custom 1911" that can only be unlocked via a password. I am assuming that's a total nod to MGS3.
Another thing, have any of you emblem unlocking nuts noticed getting anything in MGO for it? Would be neat to get an eyepatch or something for MGO... :lol
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Can someone help discuss Naomi with me?
I can't say I honestly understand the character and I certainly don't think she's that consistant... at least, her motivations arent clear at all.
I can't say I honestly understand the character and I certainly don't think she's that consistant... at least, her motivations arent clear at all.
She really was a 'bad guy' the entire time, yes? I mean, she cared; sure, she tossed a nice bone in every now and then, but she really wasn't on Snakes side. I just really don't understand her motivations though at all, it never dives into why she did the things she did, and especially why she was slowly ending her own life. Guilt? What drove her to help Liquid; get rescued, and return to him? It certainly wasn't to betray him, cause... well, she didnt. Was it really because she just felt a connection to Vamp? Was that her reasoning, to be with him? It was kind of shallow, I can't really see I get it unless she was just a badguy who was overcome by guilt but then why ask to be rescued.... to do what, sleep with Otocan, and then leave again to be with Liquid? Why was she with him in the first place, aside from being captured? Looked to me that was more her choice than anything else.
Take in mind I just completed Act 4 and have not yet completed the story.
I'm not sure I like the way she was handled. (Her or Rose for that matter). She was rendered beautifully though.
Take in mind I just completed Act 4 and have not yet completed the story.
I'm not sure I like the way she was handled. (Her or Rose for that matter). She was rendered beautifully though.
DIrtyWeasel
Member
Get it during the Act 4 briefing and you get pictures included with the camera.BruceLeeRoy said:
Photos of Sunny and Naomi
teh_J0kerer
Member
Well, I took the plunge today and ordered an 80gb MGS4 bundle off ebay. I couldnt resist cause I had a 10% off coupon, plus microsoft's 25% cashback.. it cost me 390 bucks.
I hated MGS3 though, I hope you fanboys didn't lead me astray
I hated MGS3 though, I hope you fanboys didn't lead me astray
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Awntawn said:
ha, i just saw the Act 5 mission briefing and while it doesn't completely address my point, i certainly should have waited a bit
i'll be back!
teh_J0kerer
Member
kozmo7 said:
I already kinda posted this earlier in the thread, but the main thing I didnt like was that the game was trying to emphasize stealth but
a) sneaking around without getting caught is very very hard.
b) if you do get caught, running around stabbing everyone in the face is trivial.
This makes stealth totally pointless. I might as well just stab everyone. But the stabbing isnt fun, so the game falls apart.
Compare to thief, where its possible but interesting and challenging to sneak by everyone, but if you do get caught, you die.
Iaido Sword
Banned
You fallen into the same hole most people fall in.teh_J0kerer said:
You played it on easy.
I've done hard without getting spotted and killing minimal people. So stealth works all the way.
If you're spotted on hard difficulty, you'll get raped like you would in Thief.
MiamiWesker
Member
Messing around the game I came up with the Human Rage Bomb. Basically a human strapped with C4 infused with rage, makes for a funny weapon, check it out in the MGS4 pics thread.
teh_J0kerer
Member
Iaido Sword said:
Note I didnt complain that the whole game was too easy. Its the overall balancing that was broken. The emphasized game mechanic, stealth, was too hard, while the unemphasized one, stabbing, was too easy.
Who cares if some number of times after you beat the game you can whip through hard without getting caught. That's called memorization.
Rocket786
Member
Hey guys, I have a couple story questions that I'd appreciate if you can help me answer.
Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!
1. Did Eva know that wasn't Big Boss's corpse that she was securing? It seemed like she was in on the plan to free Big Boss. If that is the case why was Ocelot attacking her? Technically wasn't he also in on the plan to free Big Boss as well?
2. Was Ocelot good or bad? I don't mean to make it so black and white, but I'm just curious if his plans about destroying JD were genuine. It seems like he wasn't really possessed by Liquid and went under hypnotism to make the patriots believe he was Liquid... Why? If he wasn't possessed, then once again, why attack Eva? After Snake uploades the virus into GW, Ocelot said that is exactly what he wanted... I'm guessing uploading the virus essentially had the same effect as destroying JD would have; which would be the end of the Patriot's system?
3. I forgot how GW was still linked to the Patriot's system. I know that the Patriots thought the system was gone and declared it dead. But GW was under the control of Ocelot and he rebuilt it after taking the virus out that Emma uploaded. So GW still had the same access it had before but JD didn't recognize it, because GW was supposed to be dead. So if they destroyed JD, GW would have ultimate authority over the other systems right? Did I just answer my own question or is there more to it?
4. Big Boss and Zero. Here he explains that Naomi, Eva, and Ocelot wanted to free him from his cryogenic system (this happens once the Patriot's system goes down). Why did he have to kill Zero? I understand Zero was the cause of this whole thing, but he was pretty old and useless by that time. Essentially I'd like to know a cliff notes version of the Big Boss and Snake convo at the end.
2. Was Ocelot good or bad? I don't mean to make it so black and white, but I'm just curious if his plans about destroying JD were genuine. It seems like he wasn't really possessed by Liquid and went under hypnotism to make the patriots believe he was Liquid... Why? If he wasn't possessed, then once again, why attack Eva? After Snake uploades the virus into GW, Ocelot said that is exactly what he wanted... I'm guessing uploading the virus essentially had the same effect as destroying JD would have; which would be the end of the Patriot's system?
3. I forgot how GW was still linked to the Patriot's system. I know that the Patriots thought the system was gone and declared it dead. But GW was under the control of Ocelot and he rebuilt it after taking the virus out that Emma uploaded. So GW still had the same access it had before but JD didn't recognize it, because GW was supposed to be dead. So if they destroyed JD, GW would have ultimate authority over the other systems right? Did I just answer my own question or is there more to it?
4. Big Boss and Zero. Here he explains that Naomi, Eva, and Ocelot wanted to free him from his cryogenic system (this happens once the Patriot's system goes down). Why did he have to kill Zero? I understand Zero was the cause of this whole thing, but he was pretty old and useless by that time. Essentially I'd like to know a cliff notes version of the Big Boss and Snake convo at the end.
Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!
A00man said:
1. They were both acting. They had to make it seem like their motives were something else entirely different than reviving Big Boss and bringing down the AIs. Eva knew that she was going to die from Fox Die anyways so she jumped into the fire.
2. Ocelot is a good guy. Him and Eva had to fool everyone, including Snake and the Patriots. Everyone thinks that Ocelot is just trying to take over the system. In reality he was making the ultimate sacrifice for the world by eliminating the Patriots control. He pretends to be Liquid in order to get Snake involve.
3. GW is part of a four part system. That system functions under the control of JD. Ocelot used GW in order to get into the system since GW is the only known AI that can communicate with the other AIs. Also, the intention was never to take over the system. It was to destroy all of it using GW as a gateway into the system.
4. Big Boss killed Zero as a symbolism that the reign of the Patriots were finally over. Not just the AIs but all of the founders of the Patriots died. Big Boss showed this to Snake in a symbolic way by killing Zero and resetting the world.
2. Ocelot is a good guy. Him and Eva had to fool everyone, including Snake and the Patriots. Everyone thinks that Ocelot is just trying to take over the system. In reality he was making the ultimate sacrifice for the world by eliminating the Patriots control. He pretends to be Liquid in order to get Snake involve.
3. GW is part of a four part system. That system functions under the control of JD. Ocelot used GW in order to get into the system since GW is the only known AI that can communicate with the other AIs. Also, the intention was never to take over the system. It was to destroy all of it using GW as a gateway into the system.
4. Big Boss killed Zero as a symbolism that the reign of the Patriots were finally over. Not just the AIs but all of the founders of the Patriots died. Big Boss showed this to Snake in a symbolic way by killing Zero and resetting the world.
Virtua Ben
Member
Just finished the game...and wow. I loved it. This will be the first MGS game that I'll play through again.
Liabe Brave
Member
Answers:A00man said:
1. The game isn't clear about her exact feelings toward Ocelot. It seems plausible that at the end she thought he was "lost" in the false Liquid persona, because as you said he certainly makes a good attempt at killing her and Snake. As for why she'd jump for the body, either she still wanted spare parts for Big Boss, or she felt some remorse over having disassembled Solidus.
2. I think the game leaves the extent of the "Liquid Ocelot" persona's control up in the air. Like you say, he came awfully close to blowing the whole plan a couple times. But this level of commitment was necessary, because otherwise the hyperintelligent Patriot AIs would've caught on that it was all a trap, and they would've stopped helping Solid Snake. And yes, the AIs are well and truly destroyed at the end.
3. You answered this yourself.
4. Big Boss believes that even with Zero so old (105!), with any symbol to rally around the Patriots could return as a group, even if the AIs are gone. That's why Zero and himself have to die. Whether he's correct about this isn't the point; this is a character moment about what sort of man Naked Snake is. The entire theme of the game is redemption...virtually every character achieves it.
2. I think the game leaves the extent of the "Liquid Ocelot" persona's control up in the air. Like you say, he came awfully close to blowing the whole plan a couple times. But this level of commitment was necessary, because otherwise the hyperintelligent Patriot AIs would've caught on that it was all a trap, and they would've stopped helping Solid Snake. And yes, the AIs are well and truly destroyed at the end.
3. You answered this yourself.
4. Big Boss believes that even with Zero so old (105!), with any symbol to rally around the Patriots could return as a group, even if the AIs are gone. That's why Zero and himself have to die. Whether he's correct about this isn't the point; this is a character moment about what sort of man Naked Snake is. The entire theme of the game is redemption...virtually every character achieves it.
Edit: beaten.
Dez said:
Naomi couldn't finish the virus though. Ocelot knew this. Remember that Vamp was on the phone in act 2 and Ocelot says "It's all part of the plan."? So yeah, Snake was the one to end up with the Fox Alive and Ocelot needed to distract the Patriots from it. Remember, everyone thought that the Virus was just going to stop GW. But it ended up putting an end to the Patriots. If the Patriots knew this was coming, they would've devised some plan to stop their demise.
Bit-Bit said:
Well the problem is that Ocelot couldn't have had much idea about Sunny's programming ability at all until after Naomi returned to him..so why did Naomi go to Snake in the first place? Maybe she wanted to enlist the help of Otacon, until she discovered Sunny.. And why couldn't Naomi have just given the completed virus directly to Ocelot? I just hate that as Snake, in his last mission, the player didn't contribute anything.
Dez said:
Remember Naomi thought that Otacon unencrypted her message. After talking to Otacon she realizes that Sunny is the true genius. So when she went back to Ocelot, she finally found peace when Sunny told her that she "Made it just right". That was the secret message to let Naomi know that Fox Alive was completed. And again, Ocelot needed Snake to do it because the Patriots had to truly believe that what Snake did was to help them. Not destroy them.
TheBranca18 said:
Thanks for the reply--sounds good.
Another question--and this may be a dumb one--but I understand that you can unlock a ton of stuff in the game (masks, costumes, weapons)... Once you beat the game, can you replay it with all that stuff still unlocked/accessible?
Rocket786
Member
Bit-Bit said:
That makes sense, but what was really stopping Ocelot from putting the virus in himself? He didn't want to blow his cover with the Patriots? What could the Patriots have done to him at that point. He controlled SOP so they really couldn't have manipulated him in any way. I guess they could have figured out something was up and implemented some fail safe for their system?
- Status