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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
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Steiner_Zi
Member
No, it is not ridiculous.Ether_Snake said:
Ocelot would kill anybody to achieve his goals, do you think that he would back off at Meryl?:lol The same goes for the president in MGS2, who went against the Patriots so Ocelot --then seemingly working for the Patriots-- justifyingly killed him. That Ocelot was not the pure-evil villain we were used to began to emerge by MGS3. The foundations were there and Kojima expanded on it. The whole thing ties up perfectly with the events of MGS1&2. Why Ocelot didn't kill Snake when he had the chance in Dead Shell? Why kill everybody else (besides Raiden who was part of S3 simulation) and let Snake live? Why suddenly leave with RAY? No one in either Shadow Moses or Dead Shell is left as a witness. Everything makes sense after we learn about him in MGS4.
EDIT:
What?:lol Kojima basically through MGS tells that USA is run by a corrupt group of people who the people does not vote for (or conveniently accept, I'd add), censors all information thanks to the help of mass media and creates war in other parts of the world so that they can get rich.TTP said:
Ocelot
But here's the thing, there is no villian, there is no hero.Ether_Snake said:
To look at it in such a melodramatic perspective sort of ruins the point of the game's story. I mean, if you think about it, Solidus wasn't a villain either, with the way you're wording it. Personally, everyone's some shade of gray, but more specifically, Ocelot and Solidus's actions are more reflective of acting on the idea of doing the greater good, or rather, doing anything necessary to accomplish their goal to freedom.
If there's anything that MGS3 taught us, its the message that The Boss had to give: there is no such thing as an absolute evil, no absolute enemy. What dictates who we confront are the times, what decides our enemy. While the situation of proxy warfare might throw what she says straight to the wind, that doesn't hold true for who the main cast faces: the patriots AIs, Liquid Ocelot, and Snakehound. While it may be orchestrated, the Patriot AIs being the sole enemy holds true for what the Boss says.
I'm fairly content with MGS4's story. I think it wrapped everything up nicely, although Deus Ex Machina comes to mind about 20 times throughout the game.
I'd also like to note that, speaking from Snake's heart, he's no hero; never was, never will be. He's just an old killer. He's been trained for it, hated for it, praised for it, and hunted for it.
But more importantly, he was made for it.
Its what makes his story so sad. He might be heroic in his endeavors, and especially to us, the audience and the players, but realistically speaking, he lived as a puppet, and that's what makes the ending so much more precious.
Edit: Man, Ether, you should retire. Everyone's contradicting you D:
Steiner: the idea of MGS2 was born from the Napster incident, but truly, the MGS games express a rather candid (and perhaps foreign/fresh) perspective on America. I mentioned this in that David Hayter thread, but that's one of the spices in the MGS series that gives the game such a unique eastern taste that's secretly hidden by such western paramilitary scenarios.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Excellent sleuthing, TTP! The day after American Independence Day. How appropriate.TTP said:
I should check out the Sunny Cam more often. That cardboard box pic you posted is hilarious! The coolest thing I've probably seen is her building the
Mk III
Think how far they could take these timed easter eggs. Not just month and day specific, but a particular year. Wishful thinking?
....Catalix said:Excellent sleuthing, TTP! The day after American Independence Day. How appropriate.
I should check out the Sunny Cam more often. That cardboard box pic you posted is hilarious! The coolest thing I've probably seen is her building the, but that's about it.Mk III
Think how far they could take these timed easter eggs. Not just month and day specific, but a particular year. Wishful thinking?
.....
quick, someone set the date to hideo's birthday.
....
why the hell am I having dejavu??
Whew, beat Act 3 on my Big Boss Emblem run. I'm at
now with a play time of around 2.5 h. I should be OK if I can beat the boss I'm fighting with a semi-respectable time, which won't be easy but will be nothing compared to what I already went through in Act 3. I'm mostly worried about using up too much tranq ammo on the damn FROGS where I'm at now, but solar gun seems to trigger alerts too easily.
EDIT: Took down the beast form of the 3rd beauty in 12 minutes on Extreme after about a half dozen reloads (alert!!!...damn FROGS!). Still at 2:34, so I think I'm OK timewise. I was worried this was going to take too much time.
Crying Wolf
EDIT: Took down the beast form of the 3rd beauty in 12 minutes on Extreme after about a half dozen reloads (alert!!!...damn FROGS!). Still at 2:34, so I think I'm OK timewise. I was worried this was going to take too much time.
Stupid question but i'm on my 2nd playthrough and have yet to give an item to a "friendly" soldier. How in the world do i do it :lol? I could have sworn i read that you just equip said item and then you're given a trigger like hitting triangle or something and you hand it over. Am i right, wrong, out in left field or what?
Steiner_Zi said:What?:lol Kojima basically through MGS tells that USA is run by a corrupt group of people who the people does not vote for (or conveniently accept, I'd add), censors all information thanks to the help of mass media and creates war in other parts of the world so that they can get rich.does everything he can to stop that. The main villains always turn out to be not the terrorists or other countries but the administration of USAOcelot
I wasn't talking about MGS4. Just making a real world example about the good/bad thing.
GoncaloCCastro
Member
Awesome discovery TTP! And I would also love to see what happened to Raiden between 2 and 4, the Database just isn't enough.
jacf29 said:
I think I'm on my 7th or 8th playthrough and I'm still finding things. There are Easter eggs and emblem challenges galore in this game. If you can't find anything to do after 5 hours, you're doing something wrong. There's also several ways to play through the same area. Rambo approach? Bond and his wonderful toys approach? Ninja assassin approach? Wicked sniper approach? Grappling master approach? Trapper Snake approach? Pick one or a dozen. The controls/ gameplay also carry over to MGO, which continues to be updated in awesome ways and offers loads of replay value.
Anyway, regarding my quest for the Big Boss emblem, I'm on
the bow of Outer Heaven with a time of 2 hours, 5 min (not counting the 17 min of unskippables) under the 5 hour limit, so I don't think I need to worry about the time anymore. I am worried about getting my ass whipped by Mantis and Liquid, however. :lol
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
I sort of agree with you. I dont mind that ocelotEther_Snake said:
is a good guy
that he's a bad guy
he is a good guy
Killing the darpa chief (sigint): He did this because he needed the key card for rex and also because sigint was still loyal to the patriots. Now that makes sense, but the plothole with this situation is why Sigint was building metal gear rex when the patriots did not want it? Was he trying to betray the patriots?
Trying to kill everyone on arsenal gear: He fired missles at everyone, so the only way you could assume that he was a good guy is that he knew that fortune could actually repel bullets without that device and he only fired the missles to make it look like he wanted to kill them. before he had the chance to try and kill them again, Liquid took over his body. However, when Fortune repelled the missiles, Ocelot seemed fairly surprised
jacf29 said:
A shitload more. From the top of my head. Follow different paths which lead to different situations/events (in Act 1 and 2). You can rescue more than just those few rebels at the beginning of Act 2 (making next fights easier). If you play on Hard, there is a whole new section to go through in Act 3 and two vehicle patrols rather than one. Win more rebels vs PMC fights (you may not realize this on your first go, but there are just TWO unwinnable fights in the whole game). Did you know you can actually open a new passage at the end of Act 1 if you manage to defend the rebels tank? Do you know what happens if you come back from the Militia HQ if you haven't finished the fight right after you meet the MKII?
Also, by changing your playing style you are exposed to a whole different layer of the levels design. Try not to triggering a single alarm in Shadow Moses. You'll appreciate (or hate) those Dwarf Gekkos more. On BB Extreme Drebin doesn't sell non lethal ammo. Try finishing that without killing anybody. You'll be forced to do more body checks, which means you have to be more careful about your surroundings (there are also more enemies on patrol and they have better senses). Also, learning all the subtleties of CQC makes you more bad ass. I didn't realize until my 3rd or 4th playthrough that it is possible to disarm AND knock down guards while holding a rifle in a single CQC attack.
Besides, new weapons are fun to use and experiment with (RaceGun bullets ricochet from walls and affect enemies emotions...) while new items open up new funny ways to go through your mission (corpse camo, "BB head" etc).
Had this game Trophies for the get go, more people would have realized how deep it is.
Steiner_Zi
Member
psycho_snake said:
Yeah, and in MGS4 we learn that he is a good guy. So what? If his actions suggested otherwise, it would not be a surprise.
AGAIN, however, and we've said this a million times: there are no purely good/bad guys (among the main characters) in the MGS universe. Ocelot is not innocent, he is a cruel man who would everything to achieve his goals. However, all this time he served a greater cause and sacrificed himself in order to exact his vengeace on Zero and find redemption for his sins. Neither Zero nor Para-Medic were "bad", either. They just have different perpectives and ideals that ultimately proved to be disasterous. On the other hand, Big Boss admits he was wrong, too, and he didn't follow the Boss's ideals either.
AGAIN, however, and we've said this a million times: there are no purely good/bad guys (among the main characters) in the MGS universe. Ocelot is not innocent, he is a cruel man who would everything to achieve his goals. However, all this time he served a greater cause and sacrificed himself in order to exact his vengeace on Zero and find redemption for his sins. Neither Zero nor Para-Medic were "bad", either. They just have different perpectives and ideals that ultimately proved to be disasterous. On the other hand, Big Boss admits he was wrong, too, and he didn't follow the Boss's ideals either.
Who says that the Patriots did not want REX? Also, the fact that Ocelot killed Sigint in private seemingly by accident ties perfectly with what we learn in MGS4.
He managed to fool the Patriots and the entire world and your objection is that he seemed surprised when Fortune repelled the missiles? For all we know, he could have re-activated Fortune's electromagnetic field before launching the missiles.
You should read the plot synopsis and interpretation in the official guide. It's got the entire MGS timeline under the scope of MGS4's revelations and everything is explained pretty good.
disappeared
Banned
whoa i just discovered something new (to me). if you tranq a rebel or PMC three times rapidly they foam at the mouth.
When I was watching
the scene on the Volta again, when it ends and Ocelot leaves, the lingering shot on his face is quite telling where he looks down, I got the impression of guilt/regret before he regains his composure.
Also I wish he got more of a send off, a final monologue. His ending was too brief for a character of such stature
Also I wish he got more of a send off, a final monologue. His ending was too brief for a character of such stature
TTP said:
probably well known, but she also dances when you play the two han princess song and pause the game
in other unrelated MGS4 news, I have to replay the whole act 4
including that damn hour-long crying wolf tranq battle I got an alert somewhere along the way, I think it was the gekko at otacon's old office)
I got an alert somewhere along the way, I think it was the gekko at otacon's old office)Handycrap101
Banned
I just wanted to pop in quick and give a "Hello!" from MGO.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
It doesnt bother me that OcelotSteiner_Zi said:
is a good guy. What annoys me is you have to make assumptions
President Johnson says it in MGS2. Here's the exact quote:Steiner_Zi said:
"At the time, the DARPA Chief, Donald Anderson together with certain influential parties -- initiated the development of Metal Gear REX and an advanced nuclear warhead. However, this did not fall in line with the Patriots' plans.
I know.....thats why I said it makes sense. But it only makes sense ifSteiner_Zi said:
Sigint was still working for the patriots and if he is, why did he develop REX without the patriots consent?
Again, its all an assumption.Steiner_Zi said:
El Pescado
Member
I asked a few pages ago and don't think I got a reply, but does anyone have an mp3 of the song they play on the ranking screen? It's not on the OST and for some reason I absolutely love it.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
yeah same here.dalyr95 said:
Ocelot was such a vital part to the story and he didnt get the ending he deserved
Ken Masters
Banned
when you are wearing the Stealth Icon, if you turn green what does that mean?
atomico said:in other unrelated MGS4 news, I have to replay the whole act 4including that damn hour-long crying wolf tranq battle
i just had about the same thing happen to me.
It had to be a scarab or gekko just as I had rail gunned to clear space or chaffed it and gave me one of those alerts that instantly disappears as they die/ get scrambled so I didn't notice it. i had to redo Vamp, the suicide gekkos, and all the Rex stuff on Extreme a second time. Luckily I was spared another Wolf battle, though.
After finishing my 2nd MGS4 run, I decided to attack the series in chronological order and started with MGS3: Subsistence. I knew the controls were improved from the previous games, but I have an even bigger appreciation for the improvements now. Subsistence is pretty painful to play through. :/
Anyone else go back to this yet and struggle to get used to the old control scheme?
Anyone else go back to this yet and struggle to get used to the old control scheme?
krackerjack
Member
not so much about the game, but i remember when kojima said something along the lines that mgs4 is pushing the blu-ray disc as far as it will go.....if only he had waited a few months:lol
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/07/pioneers-blu-ray-disc-hits-400gb/
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/07/pioneers-blu-ray-disc-hits-400gb/
Handycrap101
Banned
Oh and... I figured some of you may like this. I went and did it yesterday for the guys over at GB.
http://i28.tinypic.com/xb0gvn.png
http://i28.tinypic.com/xb0gvn.png
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Steiner_Zi said:
Don't you realize this is the cheapest plot device one can use? I could pretend that George Bush is
trying to wake up the American patriotic spirit by acting in ways that make him unpopular, so that finally they will wake up and elect someone of great stature!
You could do this with any controversial historic figure and it would work, because anyone no matter how evil could pretend his actions were an act to bring about the opposite of what he officially sought.
You could do this with any controversial historic figure and it would work, because anyone no matter how evil could pretend his actions were an act to bring about the opposite of what he officially sought.
It's dumb.
Iaido Sword
Banned
Daaaaamn.krackerjack said:
Might even beat the 0.3 inch OLED TV as surprising.
What the fuck.
Doing a no kill/no alert run on Solid Normal, progressing fine, forget to make a new save before the end of act 3, turns out I killed someone along the way - wtf.
So basically I need to start from the beginning now because I forgot to make backup saves.
Doing a no kill/no alert run on Solid Normal, progressing fine, forget to make a new save before the end of act 3, turns out I killed someone along the way - wtf.
If you tranq the FROGS trying to get into the van during the chase scene with Eva, they fall off - does that count as a kill? Also, I used rail gun/bullpup sniper rifle against Raging Raven's beast form, but I didn't think that counted as a kill.
So basically I need to start from the beginning now because I forgot to make backup saves.
sucks, mate. That one's pretty easy too. All you have to do is use the MK III to turn on the electricity D:atomico said:probably well known, but she also dances when you play the two han princess song and pause the game
in other unrelated MGS4 news, I have to replay the whole act 4including that damn hour-long crying wolf tranq battle
apparently they don't, which is sad; I don't like it when the frogs die because they fall like... 7 feet from the ceiling, which is stupid.unifin said:What the fuck.
Doing a no kill/no alert run on Solid Normal, progressing fine, forget to make a new save before the end of act 3, turns out I killed someone along the way - wtf.
If you tranq the FROGS trying to get into the van during the chase scene with Eva, they fall off - does that count as a kill? Also, I used rail gun/bullpup sniper rifle against Raging Raven's beast form, but I didn't think that counted as a kill.
So basically I need to start from the beginning now because I forgot to make backup saves.
If there's any time that you think you might have killed someone, its best to go take the save file and check them in the mission briefing, since it'll tell you your stats.
Using the rail gun against RR in beasts form doesn't count as a kill. Actually, I find that to be the easiest boss fight out of all of them. If you have the rail gun, basically go to the ledge that's broken, equip your eye-thing (but don't turn on envg), and look for the biggest blip on radar. Charge up your rail gun, go into scope, and shoot her from her back, but at her head-area. Its a guaranteed kill; easiest fight in the game, second only to Vamp w/ Solar gun.
This is a little off topic but have you guys seen the bloke on ebay selling a pack including all the avatars from this thread and the theme modus made?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Metal-Gear-Solid-4-Fan-Pack_W0QQitemZ170236845798QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170236845798&_trkparms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Metal-Gear-Solid-4-Fan-Pack_W0QQitemZ170236845798QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170236845798&_trkparms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
unifin said:What the fuck.
Doing a no kill/no alert run on Solid Normal, progressing fine, forget to make a new save before the end of act 3, turns out I killed someone along the way - wtf.
If you tranq the FROGS trying to get into the van during the chase scene with Eva, they fall off - does that count as a kill? Also, I used rail gun/bullpup sniper rifle against Raging Raven's beast form, but I didn't think that counted as a kill.
So basically I need to start from the beginning now because I forgot to make backup saves.
No, none of those things count as kills. You might have accidentally killed someone on the
motorcycle chas. It's easy to do. Also, if you shoot a barrel and it kills someon, that DOES count as a kill.
There's a trick to checking your stats. Watch Mission Briefing 2 and load your save. Skip twice and you'll see the stats for that save. You'll know if you have a kill or alert right away instead of having to wait until the end of an act.
Not making multiple saves is really something you need to take responsibility for. I did it once and had a kill in act 1 and accidentally saved over my original playthrough. To keep my acquired items, I had to play through the entire game and ended up with only that 1 kill total. Not fun. Make multiple saves.
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