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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie

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gantz85

Banned
Otacon said:
:O
wow!
exactly my order
and I thought I was the only one =)
oh...I would put Portable Ops before the piece of **** :D

Honestly for you guys though, maybe taking some time off and revisiting the series including MGS4 would do you guys good. It certainly wasn't the game I thought it'd be, but I haven't touched it since launch week and somehow I have a growing fondness towards it. Some scenes and characters just stand out as extremely memorable -- Sunny, Big Mama and the European setting, revisiting Shadow Moses etc.
 

SMZC

Member
gantz85 said:
Honestly for you guys though, maybe taking some time off and revisiting the series including MGS4 would do you guys good. It certainly wasn't the game I thought it'd be, but I haven't touched it since launch week and somehow I have a growing fondness towards it. Some scenes and characters just stand out as extremely memorable -- Sunny, Big Mama and the European setting, revisiting Shadow Moses etc.

I've beaten it 6 times (that includes a couple of gameplay-only playthroughs), and the more I play it the more I dislike it. I even went to MGS3, and unlike some of the guys above, I managed to enjoy it as much as always despite of the inferior controls.

I still think the gameplay of Liquid and Solid Sun is the best of the series, though.
 
Pop On Arrival said:
I'm gonna agree with the people saying MGS4 is probably the weakest in the series. It definitely is that to me. MGS3 is still my favorite game of all time, and while I really, really did enjoy MGS4, I think it doesn't hold up to how great MGS3 was. MGS3 had the perfect balance of gameplay and cutscenes; something which MGS4 chose to abandon during the second half of the game.

Here's how I'm gonna break down my MGS4 experience:

Act's one and two were fantastic. Truly great stuff, and really polished the core MGS experience. Act 3 was a fine change of pace, but it makes replaying the game an absolute chore 'cause the sneaking part of the game takes too goddamn long and it just isn't interesting the second or third time through - you just want to get it over with. Act 4 was had some magical moments, but it really is boring once the novelty of revisiting an updating Shadow Moses wears off. They should have put human sentries around the Shadow Moses and made you feel like you were sneaking around again, but instead, they decided to give you some philosophical babble.

Now on to act 5. Just too damn short. Outer Haven had some great potential, but not enough content in it. You sneak past the first area, face Screaming Mantis, microwave oven(great moment), and you fight Ocelot. Microwave oven and the final confrontation with Ocelot really saved Act 5 from being abysmal, I think.

So yeah, I'm totally not satisfied with the way they ended the 'Solid' series. I'm a huge, HUGE MGS fan, but I really am disappointed with MGS4. It's still a great game, but MGS3 set the bar so high for me, and I was expecting MGS4 to at least match it on both the gameplay and the story. MGS3 is just superior in every aspect except controls; which I didn't even mind that much to begin with.

Ah well.
This is how I feel about MGS4 {I deleted where you said it was your favourite game of the generation as it's not mine}.
It's really unfortunate...
 

SCReuter

Member
MGS4 = MGS3 > MGS > MGS2

Aside from Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess, Guns of the Patriots is the best gaming experience I've had this generation.

SMZC said:
Swap MGS3's position with MGS1, and you have my list. Although I guess I'd remove MGS4 from the list altogether. To me, the game doesn't even compare to any of its predecessors.

Damn, MGS2 was so awesome. What happened, Kojima?

Take two steps, call. Jump in the water, call. Go under water, call. Lean up against a door, call. Spot an enemy, call. Spot unconscious enemies, call. Activate a node, call. Unconscious enemies regain consciousness, call. Enter the elevator, call. Leave the elevator, call...

What game am I? :p
 

konstarGAF

Neo Member
SCReuter said:
MGS4 = MGS3 > MGS > MGS2

Aside from Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess, Guns of the Patriots is the best gaming experience I've had this generation.



Take two steps, call. Jump in the water, call. Go under water, call. Lean up against a door, call. Spot an enemy, call. Spot unconscious enemies, call. Activate a node, call. Unconscious enemies regain consciousness, call. Enter the elevator, call. Leave the elevator, call...

What game am I? :p
Yeah, and that's Metal Gear. But remember that you're a nerd and the first minutes are the tutorial.
 

SMZC

Member
SCReuter said:
MGS4 = MGS3 > MGS > MGS2

Aside from Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess, Guns of the Patriots is the best gaming experience I've had this generation.



Take two steps, call. Jump in the water, call. Go under water, call. Lean up against a door, call. Spot an enemy, call. Spot unconscious enemies, call. Activate a node, call. Unconscious enemies regain consciousness, call. Enter the elevator, call. Leave the elevator, call...

What game am I? :p

I'm willing to look over a game's flaws if the highlights make the overall product an excellent experience, and in MGS2's case it happened to be my best videogame experience ever along with Castlevania Symphony of the Night.

With MGS4 there's just nothing that I found truly memorable, except for the first two acts' gameplay and a few cut-scenes. If the storyline was my favorite part about MGS2, in MGS4's case it actually was what ruined the game for me.
 

deepbrown

Member
MGS4 is genius. This review sums up a lot of what makes this so:

Thus, Metal Gear Solid 4 isn’t perfect. It has its failings, and the narrative could disorientate new series players. If, however, they embed themselves in the folklore and background of the series past, MGS4 will thoroughly reward them. Each character is fully fleshed out, explored and taken to their magnificent end.

What extends MGS4 to an ambitious and original result is that the game is a tragedy involving a character stepping ever close to his death. For long time fans this is almost unbearable. As Snake’s place in the world continuously becomes more hopeless, you’re always wondering if the next Act is his last. The impact with which this tragedy is delivered is due to MGS4 taking full advantage of a videogame’s virtue to immerse players fully in a virtual world. This results in some truly heart-wrenchingly beautiful and tragically inspired combinations of cutscene and gameplay.

Moreover, as you’ll discover, what has always been Metal Gear Solid’s overriding success is that no character is evil or morally good. There are no clearly defined villains. Uncommon to most filmic narratives, not a single character can be rooted to one end of the moral spectrum. Solid Snake may be the traditional Hero, but MGS4’s magnifying glass shows that even the most villainous characters are trying to be the Hero. All are attempting to live up to their interpreted ideals of The Boss. That you can find Hero’s in the most unlikely places is MGS4’s legacy to future narratives.

http://www.ripten.com/2008/07/21/metal-gear-solid-4-review/
 

itsinmyveins

Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Fady K said:
Wow, haha, i can understand with the people saying Snake Eater over MGS4, or maaaaaybe MGS1 over MGS4. But effin MGS2? :lol

MGS2 was the most disappointing Kojima game to me. Not, not because of Raiden or whatever - I actually liked Raiden! Besides the new gameplay mechanics and the amazing OST by Gregson-Williams and Hibino, it did everything worse than the other MGS games.

MGS4>MGS3>>>>MGS1>>>>>MGSPO>>>>>>>>>MGAcid2>>MGS2>>MGAcid

In short, the story only? Personally though, I would hardly call the story in MGS4 better. Ontop of that, the bossfights in MGS4 are the worst ones in the series, easily.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
You CAN'T have The Boss as a main character. What made her so great was that she was beyond the character we played, a mentor. Playing as her would be alright, but it's not really worth it. She would end up with a story almost identical to Big Boss' in MGS3.

Move on.
 

Fady K

Member
I cant believe some of you MGS fans thinking 4 is one of the first. 4 FREAKING BLEW ME AWAY :D And I loved every bit of it. For once, I agree with the critics and not the fans on this one. Especially after a lot of you praise MGS2 so much, IMO.
 

Fady K

Member
ItsInMyVeins said:
In short, the story only? Personally though, I would hardly call the story in MGS4 better. Ontop of that, the bossfights in MGS4 are the worst ones in the series, easily.

Not just the story, but the areas were pretty dull for me, the cutscenes didnt deliver too much, not much of an emotional impact at all, raiden wasnt as fun to play as snake, etc.

But I loved the MGS4 bosses, i still think the most memorable boss fights are in MGS1, then 4, then 3, then 2.
 

itsinmyveins

Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Fady K said:
I cant believe some of you MGS fans thinking 4 is one of the first. 4 FREAKING BLEW ME AWAY :D And I loved every bit of it. For once, I agree with the critics and not the fans on this one. Especially after a lot of you praise MGS2 so much, IMO.

Yepp, I really like MGS2. Aside from some story issues, it's fucking awesome. There's such a huge leap from MGS (which already was one of my favourite games) to MGS2, so it kinda blew me away. And the tanker mission is one of the best parts of the entire MGS-series.

MGS3 was a disappointment for me at first too, but then later when I replayed it (the Subsistence version) I really started to appreciate it. Now it might be my favourite MGS as far as story goes.

MGS4's story is just to over the top, and some of the cutscenes were horrible. But the bossest might have been the biggest disappointment for me. The four first bosses are sooo boring to play.

EDIT: Given some time, I might start to appreciate MGS4 more. If I replay it and try to mess around on the various levels and etc. I mean, I'm not saying the game is bad -- absolutely not. It's a really good game. But as things are now, I prefer the three earlier ones.
 

Grayman

Member
I think I like the old 2d plane top down style of boss fights more than 4s. The layout of the fights settings can mean a lot.

Ocelot(1)/Vamp(2) have their square of walkways but a center you can't enter
Vulcan Raven,Fatman,Fury take place in a grid of paths so you can trap or be trapped
Ocelot(3)/Olga/Pain have their island or chasm fight style where you are stuck at medium range


MGS4 bosses
Laughing Octopus: She can teleport so the cool multi-room lab is useless. Fighting a cyborg ninja fight here or a Snake doppleganger that stalks and uses similar weapons like a cqc version of the end would have been epic.

Raging Raven: only the top level of the building is really used. She is maneuverable enough that the problems fighting harriers and hinds don't exist. Just running laps of the building you aren't exposed to much danger. Maybe this one is more fun if you try using Stinger missiles?

Crying Wolf: This one is ok since the frogs make it fun. It is a really empty area though and the catwalks aren't really useful in the fight sadly.

Vamp: Can use all your guns on him but can't CQC as far as I know. C4 and mines are probably unworkable. Open field location with the boss having a few long distance knife points yawn.

Rex v Ray: this was cool

Screaming Mantis: Good location. Not as many neat tricks as Psycho Mantis.

Liquid Ocelot: controls aren't very good. Maybe a more explanatory codec would help?. I would have rather had the combat options I had for the whole game to start with.
So some boring ones a few good ones but not as good as the other games.
 

Zen

Banned
I agree with you + the decreased emphasis on the environment and wound treatment system from MGS3 really makes the boss fights a lot simpler and less entertaining. I'd say that they could arguably be the worst boss fights in the entire series, though there's still some merit to be had on harder difficulties.

akiba_sasaki said:
Well, the basic point is no information at all about things that happened before MGS4 and in MGS4. All the information the codec gave you in past MGS is not in MGS4.

Retcons changing things from past MGS and changing MGS4 at the same time, the Database, worst boss fights...
I hope they make a Subs- to include VR missions like in MGS2 to try the 70 weapons the game has.

mmm, for me it's not a Metal Gear game, because the things that make Metal Gear a Metal Gear, are not in MGS4. They lost me as a consumer, but i suppose they won more buyers doing MGS4 like it is now.

I'm not a huge fan of the story of MGS4 or how it's structured (I would have preferred all 1 location instead of chapters), but I still find the raw gameplay to be fun, and MGO has taken the jump from "ok diversion if you really really like MGS" to "One of the best online games I've ever played".

So I'm pretty happy with MGS4, overall.
 

ianp622

Member
Grayman said:
MGS4 bosses
Liquid Ocelot: controls aren't very good. Maybe a more explanatory codec would help?. I would have rather had the combat options I had for the whole game to start with.

You can press select to view the controls.
 

AKS

Member
Ether_Snake said:
You CAN'T have The Boss as a main character. What made her so great was that she was beyond the character we played, a mentor. Playing as her would be alright, but it's not really worth it. She would end up with a story almost identical to Big Boss' in MGS3.

Move on.

I'd love another game like MGS3 but with MGS4's graphics, sound, and far superior controls. And The Boss is one of my all time favorite characters, so I'm not quite ready to just "move on" and forget about her. A game starring The Boss could be absolutely brilliant.
 

SCReuter

Member
akiba_sasaki said:
Yeah, and that's Metal Gear. But remember that you're a nerd and the first minutes are the tutorial.

It's odd how the Tanker's tutorial ends the very moment I take control of Snake, but the Plant's tutorial seems to go on 'till the credits.

I also don't remember being smothered in constant Codec conversations in the other console installments, but whatever. I still love Sons of Liberty.

SMZC said:
I'm willing to look over a game's flaws if the highlights make the overall product an excellent experience, and in MGS2's case it happened to be my best videogame experience ever along with Castlevania Symphony of the Night.

With MGS4 there's just nothing that I found truly memorable, except for the first two acts' gameplay and a few cut-scenes. If the storyline was my favorite part about MGS2, in MGS4's case it actually was what ruined the game for me.

All righty. I can certainly respect your opinion, but for me, while acts 1 and 2 offered more meaty gameplay, it was the later three acts that really blew me away as an MGS fan.

I'm talking about all the boss battle scenarios. Trailing a resistance member through the streets of Eastern Europe while avoiding enemy jeeps and helicopter searchlights. The biker chase with all the explosions going off and Raging Raven whipping by. Playing MGS1 in MGS4 in all its pixelated glory. Revisiting half of Shadow Moses. The split screen battle with Vamp and a dozen Gekkos. Taking control of Metal Gear Rex and fighting Ray. Psycho Mantis making a return. Crawling through the microwave tunnel with the theme song playing in the background and more split screen goodness. The finale atop of Outer Haven with Ocelot. Thinking Snake had offed himself. The surprise appearance by Big Boss after the fake credits.

It was like the winding, twisting roller coaster experience that MGS2 gave me. Only the gameplay mechanics were greatly improved, the scenery wasn't orange most of the time, and I wasn't always being interrupted by drawn out Codec calls. Oh and the ending didn't leave me feeling completely cold like in SoL.
 

Grayman

Member
Zen said:
I'm not a huge fan of the story of MGS4 or how it's structured (I would have preferred all 1 location instead of chapters), but I still find the raw gameplay to be fun, and MGO has taken the jump from "ok diversion if you really really like MGS" to "One of the best online games I've ever played".

So I'm pretty happy with MGS4, overall.
I also didn't like the location thing. It made the game seem very short. I like having the more detailed locations and little bits of backtracking. In the other games Snake infiltrates something while in MGS4 he just passes through.

The shame was the start of act 5 being one "screen." I don't own MGS2 so I would have loved to sneak around a ship type area again.
 

Grayman

Member
ianp622 said:
You can press select to view the controls.
I know and those are useless. They don't explain how you should be using them. You can't block on visual reaction, you can't land a punch if
ocelot
punches after you swing. It took me three plays of the game before I figured out that you should dash to the side a lot. Stuff like that should have been advice from Otacon. Even with explanation the controls aren't fluid and play like shit.
 

btkadams

Member
WTF! GAF help me.....

i just bought the LE today from futureshop and popped the soundtrack into my macbook pro. it starts making a weird noise like its trying to read a disc thats fucked or something? i dunno. its just not a normal disc noise. i checked the disc and its spotless. then maybe i thought it was my macbook, but i popped in another disc and it read fine. what should i do? any ideas on what could be wrong? could i actually have a fucked disc lol
 
Have any more passwords been found or released besides the 3 from a while back (and the presidents' names)???

Hope this wasn't abandoned the same way the podcast seems to have been lol.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
AKS said:
I can't believe all the hate I'm seeing for MGS4 here. I went back and played MGS3 recently. There's no way I could go back to those controls and camera and look at MGS3 the same way after experiencing MGS4's vastly superior setup. MGS4 is easily the best in the series. Sure, I wish there were a couple more Act 2's in there, but quality over quantity for me. Considering the replay value and the fact that MGO is included, I can't complain.
same here, i think mgs4 is the greatest videogame eveeeer.

edit: and yeah the passionate haters are definitely declaring a little too much as fact.
 

Orlics

Member
Ether_Snake said:
You CAN'T have The Boss as a main character. What made her so great was that she was beyond the character we played, a mentor. Playing as her would be alright, but it's not really worth it. She would end up with a story almost identical to Big Boss' in MGS3.

Move on.

Hey man, I disagree, we thought that about Big Boss, but look how that turned ou-

oh wait. I forgot that MGS3 was the game that completely ruined Big Boss' character (IMO OF COURSE). so i suppose you're right.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Orlics said:
Hey man, I disagree, we thought that about Big Boss, but look how that turned ou-

oh wait. I forgot that MGS3 was the game that completely ruined Big Boss' character (IMO OF COURSE). so i suppose you're right.
what character did he have? was his character really that developed in the msx games? .__.

and kudos on using "(IMO OF COURSE)", it makes a difference.
 

junker

Member
I really wish Konami would triple dip and release a PSN version of Snake Eater with MGS4 controls. Maybe be able to map your most used camos to the d-pad and actually utilize the analog stick for degrees of movement.

Also, widescreen and 60fps.

I'd so pay full price for that.
 

StarEye

The Amiga Brotherhood
While I love MGS3 as much as the next man, the whole injury/healing system along with the camo-system really dragged the game down. Not to mention how I found the stamina reduced too quickly. Too many trips to the menu to fix stuff like that made the game slower and more work than it could've been. Other than that, it's a killer game. I just wished there weren't a million ingredients required to remove a bullet from your body.

I can't really pick between MGS1 and MGS4 for first place, but I pretty much like every one of them almost equally as much, but on different grounds. The difference in quality between them is, to me, so small that it really doesn't matter how I rate them.
 

bathala

Banned
I just finished Act 3 so far very Anime story. just pulled all the cliches.

when akiba pulled the mask (pretty boy didn't see that coming ;) ) i was really hoping Meryl to die. Just to mix things up and her character to mean more.
 

S1lentTwo

Banned
MoonsaultSlayer said:
Have any more passwords been found or released besides the 3 from a while back (and the presidents' names)???

Hope this wasn't abandoned the same way the podcast seems to have been lol.

Yeah, WTF...where all the podcasts?
 

MarkMan

loves Arcade Sticks
WARNING LARGE IMAGES

These are some pics my friend just sent me... they were from last week at San Diego Comic-Con 2008.

2727836674_55ff229787_b.jpg


2727010637_ccd72a25aa_b.jpg

^^ I got to keep that name tag of his lol.

2727010715_858a3d5002_b.jpg


2727836850_7fa90679e1_b.jpg


2727010849_d2ca15da47_b.jpg


2727837262_25eb7122e8_b.jpg


And here's what I ended up getting signed...

2727011925_faf6a21dc5_b.jpg
 
SMZC said:
What did you think was so special about Snake in MGS4? He's by far the worst developed Snake of the whole series. The fact that it was supposed to continue the character after MGS2 (where the character was at his best) made it even more disappointing.

I loved the idea of Solid Snake being old and feeling out of place in a world where war isn't what he used to think, but they didn't even flesh that out. MGS4's Snake is nothing more than a vehicle for the players to see the rest of characters and plots unfold around Snake himself. He had a stronger presence even in MGS1.

Personally I don't think MGS has ever been a good drama or character piece. I've always loved the philosophical side, and the cheesy '80's action movie angle but I don't think Kojima really tried to create any emotional depth (outside of Otacons habitual tragedy) until MGS3 and I just didn't feel it then. Regardless of the ending, Old Snake is probably the most human, believable character I've ever seen in a game.
 

Darkpen

Banned
freethought said:
Personally I don't think MGS has ever been a good drama or character piece. I've always loved the philosophical side, and the cheesy '80's action movie angle but I don't think Kojima really tried to create any emotional depth (outside of Otacons habitual tragedy) until MGS3 and I just didn't feel it then. Regardless of the ending, Old Snake is probably the most human, believable character I've ever seen in a game.
The impression I always got was that these were characters on a rollercoaster ride, always going somewhere, on a linear road, with an occasional fork in the path. Its been too long (and I've played the games far too many times) for me to even remotely recall my experience with the games for the first time, especially the first two.

I played MGS2 first, and if anything, the gameplay was what drew me in first (I wanted to skip the opening cutscene, but my friend urged me not to :lol), since it was so different and unique, and that last codec call totally went over my head, but I think that the drama was there for me to care when Olga died. With MGS1, I got the CORRECT ending on my first playthrough, unlike a lot of newcomers, so I didn't feel any pangs of guilt over Meryl. The thing with Wolf was pretty sad, but I moved on. MGS1 really is just another action movie, but with a humanitarian message, and an EXCELLENT ending song.

But it was with MGS3 that I really got into the story. Its the reason why so many people praise the damn game. While you didn't have an enemy unit of bosses that were as involved in the plot's intricacies as MGS1 and 2, the other characters were interesting enough to really get involved in the story. As a videogame experience, The End might have really been an engrossing experience, but what really got me was The Boss.

Pressing that square button would be the beginning of the end, and I believe EVA's speech was the first time I ever cried watching a game.

MGS4, however, was MGS3's entire ending sequence multiplied by 4. And while that might be a good thing, it also means that a lot that made MGS what it was.... was missing in 4, and people hate it for that reason. 4 does a lot of wonderful things, but at the same time, it weakens what was already weak in 3, while magnifying and correcting what was awesome as well.

Ultimately though, since people seem so inclined on throwing in their two-cents on what order they like the games series as a whole, this is mine:

4 > 1 > 3 = 2

But that's not to imply that 3 and 2 are bad, no. 1 beats 3 and 2 only by a hair, because it is such an incredibly polished game. If anything, it both contrasts against and compliments 4, and really shows how amazing 4 is. All of the games suffer from strenuous talking, as well as extrapolation, and 4 might suffer the most, but its greatness outweighs its flaws, in my opinion.
 

zoukka

Member
Haha it was so crazy when I first wrote how I felt about the game, after finishing it. Honestly felt like I was alone with my opinion :b It had great moments but overall it was clearly a weaker game on it's own than the previous ones. I knew for certain that it wouldn't be remembered as a great of a game either...

Oh well nailing things three times in a row is more than enough from Kojima that I could ask for. I'll think of MGS4 as a playable database that connects all the loose strings together. And try to forget some things like the ending...
 

Darkpen

Banned
zoukka said:
Haha it was so crazy when I first wrote how I felt about the game, after finishing it. Honestly felt like I was alone with my opinion :b It had great moments but overall it was clearly a weaker game on it's own than the previous ones. I knew for certain that it wouldn't be remembered as a great of a game either...

Oh well nailing things three times in a row is more than enough from Kojima that I could ask for. I'll think of MGS4 as a playable database that connects all the loose strings together. And try to forget some things like the ending...
Well, it was pretty clear that you weren't alone as the first week passed, and this thread already had its share of people complaining.

What I think, though, is that people cast their memories of the first 3 games in a much greater light than they should be, and are ultimately nostalgic. If you think about it, MGS1 is the most simplistic iteration of the series, the most polished, and the most straightforward, and therefore the best. Because what happens with 2 and 3 and 4, is that people start complaining, for one reason or another. 2 was information overload, 3 was awkward controls/camera and lackluster Cobra unit personalities, and 4 was cutscene/gameplay ratio imbalance.

Scott Sharkey said it best when he said that once you beat the game once, and on the following playthroughs, just skipping the cutscenes and playing the game uninterrupted was one of the greatest gameplay experiences ever. This was when he was talking about MGS3, but it holds up for all of the titles.

In a sense, there are two aspects to the games: a cutscene playthrough, and a gameplay playthrough. The problem with MGS4, though, is that there is no cinema theater, much like MGS2, and each act requires an installation, which is something I could live without.

However, if there's anything that playing subsequent playthroughs demonstrates, its that they made the game far too easy, and yet at some points, too frustrating (Act 3).

4, in light of going back to the first 3 titles, stands up really well in terms of how much its advanced as an MGS game. However, I think that the reason why its missing those small little things that make an MGS game an MGS game is that the game, perhaps, got too big for its own good. Everything is sterile, maybe, too perfect, yet not perfect enough. That's the feeling I get.

Maybe I've played the MGS games too much to really appreciate easter eggs, or maybe there just aren't enough to begin with. Who knows.

Maybe they focused on some areas of the game too much, and not enough on others. Maybe the script did need some revisioning, but ultimately, its the game we got, and I appreciate what it offered as the closing chapter in Solid Snake's story. I got the closure I needed, but on the other hand, there isn't an underlying hook that I wish there was, if it was just for anticipation alone.

I think that's what gets me.
 

S1lentTwo

Banned
I've tried for years to come up with a personal ranking of the games, but I've never been able to make up my mind. Each game is a masterpiece in it's own right, and for different reasons, but each is also flawed for different reasons. I tend to view the games as parts of a greater whole, and therefore it feels wrong to rank them individually.

You can call me indecisive, but the only ranking that feels right to me is this one:

MGS1 = MGS2 = MGS3 = MGS4
 

zoukka

Member
What I think, though, is that people cast their memories of the first 3 games in a much greater light than they should be, and are ultimately nostalgic.

Nah, I've played them frequently through the years and it's one of those few series that I honestly WANT to go back to, instead of just popping in for a quick nostalgy-high. The restrictive nature of MG1/2 work well if you just like the story and they can be played almost in one sitting without overdoing it.

Snake Eater on the other hand is completely different thing with it's enormous amount of secrets and stuff to do. I still find new ways to fuck around in it's world and it's story, while straightforward has so much to dive into. I've played it only once with haste because for me it's the perfect chill-out experience. I love to work my way slowly through the areas, disabling food/ammo-storages, messing with the guards and poisoning them with spiders etc...

Also the boss fights rise to completely untouchable hights when in higher difficulty settings. And I don't get the hate for it's control scheme nor the desire to implement MGS4 controls in it. The original was lacking though and I'm glad they fixed that in Subsistence.




And I really didn't want MGS4 to be a Snake Eater remake or anything. The biggest flaws for me were in the story and in the character of Solid Snake. Or the lack of it in other words. Of course these are subjective matters like the fact that I hate the B&B corps from the bottom of my heart and such, but some things I think are more universally visible. Like the weird pacing and the balance between gameplay and cut-scenes. I love long cut-scenes in this series, but they should have added more gameplay too.

I just wish the game would have been more about Solid Snake than getting all the obscure shit together. PEACE.
 

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
Darkpen said:
However, if there's anything that playing subsequent playthroughs demonstrates, its that they made the game far too easy, and yet at some points, too frustrating (Act 3).


I wouldn't say it's any easier than previous games from a pure design perspective. Game is structured like the previous ones but there are two things to consider:

1 - I think the new camera and control systems are what made it easier. Think about playing it with MGS3 controls and a top down view. It would have been crazy difficult. I actually think game levels and enemy patrols where initially designed with the old control/camera systems in mind. Also, Drebin made ammo a non issue. Why hold up and body check guards if you can just buy what u need at any time?

2 - Everyone knows playing this on Extreme without altering guards is pure hell. But the thing is game doesn't force you to play it that way. It gives too much freedom. Heck, you can even complete the game in 3 hrs if u want to. Had the game somehow forced you to adhere to some constrains it would have been much, much tougher. Previous MGS games kida did this via the controls scheme/camera system alone. You couldn't see shit and firefights usually lead to death. You where forced to play stealthy. Not so much in MGS4 unless YOU decide to do so for the sake of getting an emblem.
 

itsinmyveins

Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Darkpen said:
What I think, though, is that people cast their memories of the first 3 games in a much greater light than they should be, and are ultimately nostalgic. If you think about it, MGS1 is the most simplistic iteration of the series, the most polished, and the most straightforward, and therefore the best. Because what happens with 2 and 3 and 4, is that people start complaining, for one reason or another. 2 was information overload, 3 was awkward controls/camera and lackluster Cobra unit personalities, and 4 was cutscene/gameplay ratio imbalance.

Personally, I don't think I'm being nostalgic about it. I do put them in context of when they were released, though. Comparing MGS1 with MGS4 head to head is kind of unfair when it comes to gameplay. Storywise, sure, you can compare all you want.
Still, I can enjoy both MGS3 Subsistence (so much better than the original MGS3) and MGS2 now as well. Actually, even though you don't get much insight regarding the Cobra Unit, the fights against them are much more fun than the ones in MGS4.

I don't really get why people are being so upset about not everyone loving MGS4. And to be honest, while the game is a step up from MGS3 (Subsistence version again, with a third person camera) I'm not sure if that step is greater than the one between MGS1 and MGS2.
 

Jocchan

Ὁ μεμβερος -ου
Just cleared the fist act. The game is AWESOME, I just needed some time to get used to the controls. Is the first act shorter, or can I expect all of them to have the same length?
 

bathala

Banned
Jocchan said:
Just cleared the fist act. The game is AWESOME, I just needed some time to get used to the controls. Is the first act shorter, or can I expect all of them to have the same length?
actually act 1 and 2 are longer. the only reason the other acts were longer because of cutscenes.

I enjoyed act 1 and 2 more.
 
If I sedate a guy climbing a ladder -- and he FALLS and DIES, that's not going to count against me, is it?

It would suck REAL BAD if I had to restart, now.
 
Jocchan said:
Just cleared the fist act. The game is AWESOME, I just needed some time to get used to the controls. Is the first act shorter, or can I expect all of them to have the same length?

I could play acts 1 and 2 over and over again, but the farther you get the more story heavy it gets. After beating the game, replaying it puts 3 at probably the weakest of the chapters with 4 and 5 being roughly equal.
 

Oni Jazar

Member
S1lentTwo said:
I've tried for years to come up with a personal ranking of the games, but I've never been able to make up my mind. Each game is a masterpiece in it's own right, and for different reasons, but each is also flawed for different reasons. I tend to view the games as parts of a greater whole, and therefore it feels wrong to rank them individually.

You can call me indecisive, but the only ranking that feels right to me is this one:

MGS1 = MGS2 = MGS3 = MGS4

I agree with this 100%. I don't think I could put one game above the other. They all are excellent games that have their own flaws.
 

Jocchan

Ὁ μεμβερος -ου
Wow, act 2 is even better than act 1.
I love sniping
hidden in the jungle
.
 

TONX

Distinguished Air Superiority
Theres only 1 thing i dont understand...
They never really talked about Master Miller... at all. He was Snake's supposed mentor before MGS1... so who the fuck was he? What did he teach Snake? Why was he so significant in Snake's life? That was never answered. Please someone enlighten me.
 

-viper-

Banned
Can anyone tell me ANYTHING THAT I CAN KILL on a no kills game?

I know I cannot kill any human opponants.

But what about the Gekkos? Those black 3 legged things?
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
just checking but the vast majority of gaf and the rest of the gaming world still regards this as the best or at least second best mgs and one of the greatest games ever right?

with all the hate in this stage of thread im actually wondering.
 

itsinmyveins

Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
-COOLIO- said:
just checking but the vast majority of gaf and the rest of the gaming world still regards this as the best or at least second best mgs and one of the greatest games ever right?

with all the hate in this stage of thread im actually wondering.

Why do people keep calling criticism of a good game "hate"? There's hardly been anyone -- as far as I've seen anyways -- who've called the game bad here.
 

Roxas

Member
-COOLIO- said:
just checking but the vast majority of gaf and the rest of the gaming world still regards this as the best or at least second best mgs and one of the greatest games ever right?

with all the hate in this stage of thread im actually wondering.

Same thing happens with every big game (see Halo 3 or GTA IV), everyone loves it the first few weeks, then it all turns to shit...
 
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