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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
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itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
-COOLIO- said:
That bolded one I'll give you. The second one no. Being the weakest game in the MGS-series is still pretty good.
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
-COOLIO- said:
Compared to the other MGS-games.
Either way, I'd say most people enjoyed the game. Of course there's gonna be a few who can't stand it.
-COOLIO- said:
Oh, MGS4 is my favorite game this gen, so that's saying something. But when it comes to MGS, I don't see how MGS4 is up to the series' standards, sorry. And I still consider the storyline to be horrible (not the cut-scenes, although I have to say I don't like them nearly as much as MGS2's or MGS3's).
TONX said:
Miller was a mentor to Snake in the same way that the Boss was a mentor to Naked Snake. He provided him with many skills about hunting and surviving, and was a good friend too. Its a shame they never revealed much about him. But as you know, he was dead by the time MGS1s story takes place, as Liquid is disguised as him to get Snake to play along with his scheme.
I'm not gonna quote anyone in particular, but this is my response to anyone that either quoted me or sort of commented on what's being talked about at the moment:
If there's one thing that everyone agrees about, its that MGS3's Cobra unit were the best collection of bosses in the MGS series, or at the very least, that The End was "an interesting fight that may invoke frustration, but becomes an experience."
Also, as far as the B&B corps is concerned, I personally find that they were the weakest aspect of MGS4. Its never explained (even in the Database, as far as I can tell) as to why Ocelot's entire personal army consists of females, and as to why they burn upon death. Its in no codec call after the first encounter, where you'd think Otacon would have mentioned it. Personally, I generally avoid killing them, but I wonder as to what happens to them afterwards if I leave them alive, and what kind of bugs me is that Snake generally doesn't care much about them either. He's never curious.
But that's not to say that I don't like them. It just so happens that they were poorly executed as a concept, despite the thought that went into their creation. They're not symbolic in any way, outside of their namesake, their emotions, and what we hear about their past.
I agree that MGS3 has a lot to offer in terms of just the level of secrets and depth, which is sorely lacking in MGS4's presentation. In a way, MGS4 lacks in the gimmicks department, despite being packed with them. You can still screw with the soldiers, but interrogation is sorely missed (even though it wouldn't make sense to include it). What's weird about liquid easy is how shooting them to any part of their is an instant kill, unlike previous Very Easy modes.
As for MGS3S, I disagree with zoukka regarding controls, and anyone else that believes the controls aren't flawed, especially in light of MGS4. If there's one thing that's forever bugged me about MGS3, its shooting while using someone as a shield; Splinter Cell introduced it, MGS3 tried it and failed, MGS4 made it a fluid motion, optimized for a multiplayer setting and general use.
Trying to hold down the circle button lightly as to not throat-cut someone, while holding R1, while trying to get the square button held down to whip out your gun, while using either of the right analog stick to aim? Not my idea of optimized controls.
In a single player setting, Subsistence's camera might be fine and dandy, but in MGO, it was near impossible to enjoy yourself without dying. I recall dropping by MGO a few months prior to its death, and getting myself owned by the other team in a game of Capture, as they'd take advantage of corners and precision headshots.
As someone who played SOCOM 2 heavily back in the day, this was very alienating. I'd go deeper into it, like how they dealt with voicechat, but that was a different time. Now we have a more user friendly MGO.
So no, I do not like MGS3:S's controls. I don't I ever will ever again after 4. 1 and 2 I can still play and enjoy to its fullest, but 3 is too similar to 4 in its design philosophy; in a way, 4 perfected what 3 tried to do. Everything from the camera system, to camo, to weapon management: its an evolution.
MGS4 had more problems than simply the cutscene/gameplay imbalance, but its one of its biggest problems. In a way, MGS4 was an experiment, much like 3 was. There were so many experimental changes that were made to "westernize" the controls, and the story was purely meant to explain loose ends. If they ever make another MG game, I expect one of the two things:
1) What happens with Raiden after 2, and right up into 4. A sort of "Raiden Gaiden," if you will.
2) A return to form: urban facility infiltration, fairly straightfoward story, entertaining gimmicks.
I mean, seriously, every time I see Raiden behead a gekko, I can't help but see "Flying Swallow" :lol
TONX: play MG2
-viper-: you can kill gekko and dwarf gekko. From what I hear, you can also destroy those MGS (those light tanks that chase you), and you can also shoot someone with a tranq, and even if they die upon falling, they won't count as a death.
Which is something I have a bone to pick with: When someone falls from a ceiling onto the floor, by like.... 4 feet maybe, THEY DIE. It doesn't make any fucking sense.
If there's one thing that everyone agrees about, its that MGS3's Cobra unit were the best collection of bosses in the MGS series, or at the very least, that The End was "an interesting fight that may invoke frustration, but becomes an experience."
Also, as far as the B&B corps is concerned, I personally find that they were the weakest aspect of MGS4. Its never explained (even in the Database, as far as I can tell) as to why Ocelot's entire personal army consists of females, and as to why they burn upon death. Its in no codec call after the first encounter, where you'd think Otacon would have mentioned it. Personally, I generally avoid killing them, but I wonder as to what happens to them afterwards if I leave them alive, and what kind of bugs me is that Snake generally doesn't care much about them either. He's never curious.
But that's not to say that I don't like them. It just so happens that they were poorly executed as a concept, despite the thought that went into their creation. They're not symbolic in any way, outside of their namesake, their emotions, and what we hear about their past.
I agree that MGS3 has a lot to offer in terms of just the level of secrets and depth, which is sorely lacking in MGS4's presentation. In a way, MGS4 lacks in the gimmicks department, despite being packed with them. You can still screw with the soldiers, but interrogation is sorely missed (even though it wouldn't make sense to include it). What's weird about liquid easy is how shooting them to any part of their is an instant kill, unlike previous Very Easy modes.
As for MGS3S, I disagree with zoukka regarding controls, and anyone else that believes the controls aren't flawed, especially in light of MGS4. If there's one thing that's forever bugged me about MGS3, its shooting while using someone as a shield; Splinter Cell introduced it, MGS3 tried it and failed, MGS4 made it a fluid motion, optimized for a multiplayer setting and general use.
Trying to hold down the circle button lightly as to not throat-cut someone, while holding R1, while trying to get the square button held down to whip out your gun, while using either of the right analog stick to aim? Not my idea of optimized controls.
In a single player setting, Subsistence's camera might be fine and dandy, but in MGO, it was near impossible to enjoy yourself without dying. I recall dropping by MGO a few months prior to its death, and getting myself owned by the other team in a game of Capture, as they'd take advantage of corners and precision headshots.
As someone who played SOCOM 2 heavily back in the day, this was very alienating. I'd go deeper into it, like how they dealt with voicechat, but that was a different time. Now we have a more user friendly MGO.
So no, I do not like MGS3:S's controls. I don't I ever will ever again after 4. 1 and 2 I can still play and enjoy to its fullest, but 3 is too similar to 4 in its design philosophy; in a way, 4 perfected what 3 tried to do. Everything from the camera system, to camo, to weapon management: its an evolution.
MGS4 had more problems than simply the cutscene/gameplay imbalance, but its one of its biggest problems. In a way, MGS4 was an experiment, much like 3 was. There were so many experimental changes that were made to "westernize" the controls, and the story was purely meant to explain loose ends. If they ever make another MG game, I expect one of the two things:
1) What happens with Raiden after 2, and right up into 4. A sort of "Raiden Gaiden," if you will.
2) A return to form: urban facility infiltration, fairly straightfoward story, entertaining gimmicks.
I mean, seriously, every time I see Raiden behead a gekko, I can't help but see "Flying Swallow" :lol
TONX: play MG2
-viper-: you can kill gekko and dwarf gekko. From what I hear, you can also destroy those MGS (those light tanks that chase you), and you can also shoot someone with a tranq, and even if they die upon falling, they won't count as a death.
Which is something I have a bone to pick with: When someone falls from a ceiling onto the floor, by like.... 4 feet maybe, THEY DIE. It doesn't make any fucking sense.
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
I like the controls in MGS3:S, but then again I never played it online and almost never tried to take an enemy hostage while aiming. So I never noticed those issues.
Regarding bosses, I think my favourites are the ones in MGS1 & 2. I like the ones in MGS3 too, though.
Ah, another minor annoyance with MGS4. The fact that enemy soldiers get this "alert mode" when they spot you even though there's pretty much an open war going on (in the areas where there are guerillas). Don't they even call in back-up then? But they don't while fighting the rebels, do they (I'm not sure about this)?
Regarding bosses, I think my favourites are the ones in MGS1 & 2. I like the ones in MGS3 too, though.
Ah, another minor annoyance with MGS4. The fact that enemy soldiers get this "alert mode" when they spot you even though there's pretty much an open war going on (in the areas where there are guerillas). Don't they even call in back-up then? But they don't while fighting the rebels, do they (I'm not sure about this)?
SMZC said:
In terms of the actual boss fight mechanics as a whole unit, Cobra Unit is pretty high up there, but Foxhound beats them all in terms of story involvement and depth of character. Dead cell is a mixed bag, since they weren't all too unified to begin with.Seiken said:DEAD CELL says hi
Depends on what's going on in battle, and exactly how they've recognized you as an enemy.ItsInMyVeins said:
There are 3 phases of alert mode, aside from the standard 3 phases (alert, caution, and evasion).
You have when its a single unit that's seen you. You can still avoid backup if you take him out before he makes radio contact, but keep in mind that any nearby soldiers will also hear and assist him.
-You have when they do call in for reinforcement.
You have when its a large battlefield, and all kinds of shit is going on. They'll notice you and you'll see an exclamation mark, but they won't call for backup because they're preoccupied.
-You have when they'll identify you as a new target, and ask for reinforcements.
StarEye said:
Agreed. It's like trying to rank the NES Mega Man installments. You can pretty much put them in any order and be "right."
How some users can believe MGS4 is "worse than shit" or "far and away inferior to the rest of the series" is puzzling to me
On a side note though, Dead Cell was the weakest group of villains, and MGS2 had my least favorite boss battles. But that's not to say either were bad.
Metalmurphy
Member
That's very unlikely. Specially the way Konami are doing things, totally separating themselves from PSN.neoism said:
GalacticAE
Member
MarkMan said:
Aw I missed this.
When and where was it?
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
GalacticAE said:Aw I missed this.
It was announced the night before it happened, so no one really knew. Kinda sucks for most people.
Luckily I saw Kojima the day before and found out he'll be doing a signing. So I went home and got my stuff lol.
I wouldn't put it up there with greatest game ever. I don't know about second best MGS, it might be but I would have to play 1 and 2 again to think about it.-COOLIO- said:
The first time I played the game and came into this thread I really thought everyone loving it was crazy. Now I think it is a very good game but I can weigh too many small negatives to consider it one of the best ever.
Finally finish the game
Graphic is gorgeous especially the final boss. Snakes suit is awesome on that one. I just wish I could change the face camo to a youngin
Gameplay - I love the drebbins points its very addicting and makes the game easier. MKII is also a great addition to the gameplay and really makes it a James Bond sneaking scene which is wat MGS 1 was all about. Act 1-2 are great but 3-5 felt more like mini-games. maybe its because the original MGS gameplay is so short
Story: a big budget straight to video Anime
after MGS3 , 4 is kind of disappointing story-wise. The only character I cared for is Snake on 4 the rest are just vessels to move the story forward.
Do i suppose to care for them? the guy is a comic relief, and when he takes off his mask his mr suave, and led to the ending resolution. really?
Debriefing was great. I was like Holy Shit. I was glued back to tube and then it dragged on. I started washing the dishes. Kojima needs an editor then again ur boss might just bitch slap u if u tell him we need to take this out.
Good game. Gameplay was good but needed more. Story. I wish it was good or better than MGS3 (MGS3's ending was great).
time to send it back to gamefly
Graphic is gorgeous especially the final boss. Snakes suit is awesome on that one. I just wish I could change the face camo to a youngin
Gameplay - I love the drebbins points its very addicting and makes the game easier. MKII is also a great addition to the gameplay and really makes it a James Bond sneaking scene which is wat MGS 1 was all about. Act 1-2 are great but 3-5 felt more like mini-games. maybe its because the original MGS gameplay is so short
Story: a big budget straight to video Anime
after MGS3 , 4 is kind of disappointing story-wise. The only character I cared for is Snake on 4 the rest are just vessels to move the story forward.
Akiba and Meryl relationship
Debriefing was great. I was like Holy Shit. I was glued back to tube and then it dragged on. I started washing the dishes. Kojima needs an editor then again ur boss might just bitch slap u if u tell him we need to take this out.
Good game. Gameplay was good but needed more. Story. I wish it was good or better than MGS3 (MGS3's ending was great).
time to send it back to gamefly
User 10639
Member
eww. Dead Cell was the worst. Starting with, uh, everything about Fortune and Fat Man.Seiken said:DEAD CELL says hi
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Fortune was a great character and Fat Man barely was a member of Dead Cell. He had his own mission to accomplish. Also, Vamp alone beats the heck out of the whole Cobra unit - both in terms of personality and overall awesomeness.icarus-daedelus said:
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Catalix said:Utter confusion...
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/Rim_lit/p_figumate.gif/IMG]
[url]http://www.konamistyle.jp/sp/mgs/mgs_figumate/[/url][/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.konamistyle.jp/sp/mgs/mgs_figumate/imgs/img04.jpg
:lol :lol
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
I think the MGS3 bosses edge out the others as far as pure gameplay goes. The amount of strategies you could employ to expend each of the bosses was very impressive. Truly encouraged experimentation, which I appreciated at the time. When I think back on the bosses of MGS1-2, they seem like pretty straight forward encounters in comparison.Seiken said:
MGS4 had that same element of experimentation, but I feel MGS3 pushed it a little further and was more challenging.
THOSE FIGURES ARE SO ADORABLE :lol :lol :lol omg
The Otacon one and the Raiden one are the best! So cute :lol
edit: friend found the preorder page :lol
http://www.konamistyle.jp/ecitem/item51508.html
The Otacon one and the Raiden one are the best! So cute :lol
edit: friend found the preorder page :lol
http://www.konamistyle.jp/ecitem/item51508.html
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Those figures are pretty disturbing...
woah, hey. Did they release the second digital graphic novel via DVD only or something?
http://www.konamistyle.jp/ecitem/item49568.html
http://www.konamistyle.jp/ecitem/item49568.html
Dabookerman
Member
Killthee said:
:lol :lol
Omgomgomg WANT WANT X3
freethought
Member
Catalix said:
Yeah, there were a few nice little touches in MGS3's boss fights with some crazy strategies available but personally I think if you take out the Boss, the End and maybe the Ocelot fight then its left with some of the worst boss fights of the series. The Shagohod and the Pain fights in particular, are just not that great.
Now the B&B unit have some problems, but I liked all four fights and the Beauty phase of the fights were an excellent way of humanising them without the need for a long death scene and monologue.
Dabookerman
Member
Darkpen said:D:
D:
Why am I finding this out now? I recall hearing NOTHING about this DVD release when it came out D:
and now, no one's seeding them
I want to buy it, but I have spent too much money :_;
I will buy it eventually. How is the packaging like? I know it was released some time ago.
Ninja Kn1ght
Member
It comes in really nice tin case. I'm not a fan of ashley wood's art (I hate the comics) but it doesn't bother me so much in the digital graphic novels.
By the way, the text is in English and the voices are in Japanese. I still hope this gets a full-english release on dvd and psp here though.
By the way, the text is in English and the voices are in Japanese. I still hope this gets a full-english release on dvd and psp here though.
devildog820
Member
Killthee said:
:lol :lol
Raiden kinda looks the same...:lol
For the Act 2 chase, take care not to shoot anyone that's climbing the tank from the front of it, when you start shooting the gekkos.-viper- said:
Its tough, but it happens.
If anything, just go through your multiple saves (you DID do multiple saves, right?) with the mission briefings in the menu (I use act 2's briefing), and just check which is your last safe checkpoint.
but so much more adorable :loldevildog820 said:
GeneralIroh
Member
I can understand why people prefer mgs3 over mgs4.
Mgs3 felt a bit more complete because the area which snake infiltrated were all connected and felt like one huge area while mgs4 felt a bit short because of the way the acts are separated. Mgs3 to me was a long epic journey while i thought the acts in mgs4 felt like little tours or trips.
Mgs1 and 3 had better storytelling because of the pacing and the way the drama was managed.
The bosses in mgs1 were incredibly charismatic and memorable. They weren't just introduced in a shallow way like the B&B corp.
I liked how in mgs1 there was tension between u and sniper wolf because of what she did to merlye. Here death scene made u sympathetic as well. Ocelot remained interesting and enigmatic throughout the whole game.
It seemed like kojima tried a bit too hard with the b and b corp with their psychological background. Unfortunately they just made the games story feel awkward and convoluted. There was no drama when you met any of them.
There were a couple of cutscenes that bothered me a lot.
In act 5,
. That just looks retarded.
I also hated how Raiden was break dancing while the gekkos were strapped to his legs and the whole scene where
Show some restraint kojima. I think he learned to much from that guy who directed the scene from the twin snakes.
Even with all these complaints, I still think mgs4 is the best game because what matters the most in all games is the gameplay.
The controls are the most intuitive in any mgs game. Shooting feels good, the drebin points shop is addictive, the camera is great, and the octocamo is so much better than going into the menu like in mgs3.
I also love the addition of rolling on the ground, shooting while lying on ur back, jumping to the side, and disarming the enemy onsite.
I dont understand the hate for the boss battles though. They were prety solid boss fights that were designed well with the new control scheme.
The acts offered plenty of variety and fun. I wish the game had more of act 2 though.
The mgs series have always been plagued by awkward controls until now.It was especially apparent at the begging of act 4. In the past I played the mgs games for the story but with mgs4 I play it for both he sotry and gameplay.
As for ranking what each game did better.
best soundtrack
mgs3
runner up - mgs4
best intro theme
mgs2
best ending theme
a tie between mgs3 and mgs1
gameplay: controls and action
mgs4>>mgs3>>>mgs2>>>>>>>mgs1>>>>>mpo
gameplayacing
mgs3>>>mgs1>mgs4>>>>>>>>>>>mgs2>>>>>mpo
secrets and extras
Mgs3>>>>>>mgs4>>>>mgs2>>mgs1>>>mpo
mgs2 had really terrible boss battles
The majority of the cobra unit boss battle sucked except for the End and the Joy.
Mgs3 felt a bit more complete because the area which snake infiltrated were all connected and felt like one huge area while mgs4 felt a bit short because of the way the acts are separated. Mgs3 to me was a long epic journey while i thought the acts in mgs4 felt like little tours or trips.
Mgs1 and 3 had better storytelling because of the pacing and the way the drama was managed.
The bosses in mgs1 were incredibly charismatic and memorable. They weren't just introduced in a shallow way like the B&B corp.
I liked how in mgs1 there was tension between u and sniper wolf because of what she did to merlye. Here death scene made u sympathetic as well. Ocelot remained interesting and enigmatic throughout the whole game.
It seemed like kojima tried a bit too hard with the b and b corp with their psychological background. Unfortunately they just made the games story feel awkward and convoluted. There was no drama when you met any of them.
There were a couple of cutscenes that bothered me a lot.
In act 5,
Raiden and Snake are talking while the frogs just stares at them and wait
I also hated how Raiden was break dancing while the gekkos were strapped to his legs and the whole scene where
he tries to save snake from a crashing Outer Haven.
Even with all these complaints, I still think mgs4 is the best game because what matters the most in all games is the gameplay.
The controls are the most intuitive in any mgs game. Shooting feels good, the drebin points shop is addictive, the camera is great, and the octocamo is so much better than going into the menu like in mgs3.
I also love the addition of rolling on the ground, shooting while lying on ur back, jumping to the side, and disarming the enemy onsite.
I dont understand the hate for the boss battles though. They were prety solid boss fights that were designed well with the new control scheme.
Laughing octopus was a good boss fight because it involved fighting someone that required u to pay attention to ur surroundings. Raging raven was fun because it involved a lot of firepower and a vertical stage. Crying wolf was fun because it was similar to The End's boss fight but with more stuff thrown at u.
IMO the boss encounter with vamp in mgs4 was better than mgs2's vamp because of the perspective and speed of the encounter. The battle between the 2 Metal gears was an absolute thrill ride. It had more fun and interesting than the old metal gear encounters which seemed like rehashes. The brawl between snake and ocelot was more visceral than the mgs1 brawl between snake and liquid. Its as if they game suddenly turned into a legit fighting game.
IMO the boss encounter with vamp in mgs4 was better than mgs2's vamp because of the perspective and speed of the encounter. The battle between the 2 Metal gears was an absolute thrill ride. It had more fun and interesting than the old metal gear encounters which seemed like rehashes. The brawl between snake and ocelot was more visceral than the mgs1 brawl between snake and liquid. Its as if they game suddenly turned into a legit fighting game.
The acts offered plenty of variety and fun. I wish the game had more of act 2 though.
The mgs series have always been plagued by awkward controls until now.It was especially apparent at the begging of act 4. In the past I played the mgs games for the story but with mgs4 I play it for both he sotry and gameplay.
As for ranking what each game did better.
best soundtrack
mgs3
runner up - mgs4
best intro theme
mgs2
best ending theme
a tie between mgs3 and mgs1
gameplay: controls and action
mgs4>>mgs3>>>mgs2>>>>>>>mgs1>>>>>mpo
gameplay
acingmgs3>>>mgs1>mgs4>>>>>>>>>>>mgs2>>>>>mpo
secrets and extras
Mgs3>>>>>>mgs4>>>>mgs2>>mgs1>>>mpo
mgs2 had really terrible boss battles
The majority of the cobra unit boss battle sucked except for the End and the Joy.
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