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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
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SpaceKitten
Neo Member
nice too see this thread bumped 
,,had to post my opinions on this,,i never really played through a mgs before.. played mg on nes,
my next adventure with the series was mgs2:S, i hated it, bad control, camera and a wtf-story,,i skipped mgs3 because of this even though it looked so awsome
so i was a little hestitantwhen starting to play, it took me a little while to get into the game and at first i was a little dissapointed that i made a mistake,, that soon changed though
a bit earlier and from the moment
it was the single greatest cinematic experience i ever had playing a game great music, battles, script, HOT chicks , everything,,yes there were some parts on some levels that felt a little uninspired,,but the rest totally makes up for it,, anyway the best game i have ever played,,, (zeldaot,sf3,okami,smb3) being other favs, the sound in 6.1 was AMAZING!
so yeah...buy it...
i might even give the earlier mgs a chance again now,,should i?
EDIT: If i have 1 single complaint,,as good as th va was,,i would love to be able to play it with jap soundtrack and english subs,,,couldnt a special edition be relesed,,,or a patch for the jap version.still the best game ever though
,,had to post my opinions on this,,i never really played through a mgs before.. played mg on nes,my next adventure with the series was mgs2:S, i hated it, bad control, camera and a wtf-story,,i skipped mgs3 because of this even though it looked so awsome
so i was a little hestitantwhen starting to play, it took me a little while to get into the game and at first i was a little dissapointed that i made a mistake,, that soon changed though
a bit earlier and from the moment
you meet up w merryls team, and the awsome music
, everything,,yes there were some parts on some levels that felt a little uninspired,,but the rest totally makes up for it,, anyway the best game i have ever played,,, (zeldaot,sf3,okami,smb3) being other favs, the sound in 6.1 was AMAZING! so yeah...buy it...
i might even give the earlier mgs a chance again now,,should i?
EDIT: If i have 1 single complaint,,as good as th va was,,i would love to be able to play it with jap soundtrack and english subs,,,couldnt a special edition be relesed,,,or a patch for the jap version.still the best game ever though
just started the game today. i think im about halfway through act 1, i just
. so far the game is awesome! and i heard that act 1 sucked compared to the rest of the game, can anyone confirm? if so, then i am in for quite a game.
PS: if curious, im playing the metal gear series for the first time and just finished playing through mgs1,2 and 3.
met up with meryl and escaped from the frogs and now shes gone i think
PS: if curious, im playing the metal gear series for the first time and just finished playing through mgs1,2 and 3.
Just finished it this weekend. I had low expectations with the game and I hate to say it, but it was still disapointing.
I have to give them credit for making the game more accessible with updated controls and the Drebin point system allowing you to sell and buy stuff at anytime. However, the game itself feels like 0.5 generation behind. It's like I've seen and done this in games like Gears of War, Call of Duty 4 and Splinter Cell that it just didn't feel special to me.
Act 1,2 definitely felt like it had the better level designs, Act 3 wasn't so bad if you've played Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow, it had exactly the same mission style in the beginning where you're tracking someone without being seen.
The percentage of cutscenes became more apparent in the later acts, it became so annoying. If only the story was as compelling, I'd have been paying attention, but man I let it run on the other screen while watching the Olympics opening ceremony. It was that boring for me.
The cutscenes were completely for Kojima's visual masturbation...I have to admit the female models were sexy but they all had like the same figure. Like Itagaki, I guess they want like their women to have the same body type or something. No variety = fail.
Wrapping up the storyline was fine and all, but eh, too bizarre and worst than B-movie for my tastes.
MGS2 still holds the candle for me, maybe because it was my first MGS. The sequels rate lower and lower. Even MGS3 was better even though I wasn't a big fan of it either. MGS4 just lacked everything in a MGS game. And no theme song like MGS2 that really made you feel patriotic, another minus points for me.
I have to give them credit for making the game more accessible with updated controls and the Drebin point system allowing you to sell and buy stuff at anytime. However, the game itself feels like 0.5 generation behind. It's like I've seen and done this in games like Gears of War, Call of Duty 4 and Splinter Cell that it just didn't feel special to me.
Act 1,2 definitely felt like it had the better level designs, Act 3 wasn't so bad if you've played Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow, it had exactly the same mission style in the beginning where you're tracking someone without being seen.
The percentage of cutscenes became more apparent in the later acts, it became so annoying. If only the story was as compelling, I'd have been paying attention, but man I let it run on the other screen while watching the Olympics opening ceremony. It was that boring for me.
The cutscenes were completely for Kojima's visual masturbation...I have to admit the female models were sexy but they all had like the same figure. Like Itagaki, I guess they want like their women to have the same body type or something. No variety = fail.
Wrapping up the storyline was fine and all, but eh, too bizarre and worst than B-movie for my tastes.
Back when I played MGS2, the whole Patriots thing was pretty cool because I felt it had similarities with secret society/conspiracy stuff like Freemason, Majestic 12, the Skulls, etc. But the story behind the Patriots was so watered down, it's so hard to believe military officers and secret agents in the late 60s (a silly tie-in with MGS3 basically) suddenly gain power and control over the most powerful country on Earth just like that and later only to be succeeded by computer AIs. So yeah, I wasn't too happy with the way things wrapped up.
MGS2 still holds the candle for me, maybe because it was my first MGS. The sequels rate lower and lower. Even MGS3 was better even though I wasn't a big fan of it either. MGS4 just lacked everything in a MGS game. And no theme song like MGS2 that really made you feel patriotic, another minus points for me.
MGS4 (as every MGS game really) is not a game you finish by finishing it. Srsly. It's not a Point A -> Point Z game. It begs to be explored in depth not in length. Not talking secrets but game mechanics. I'm on my 9th playthrough, and I'm just about to consider it "done".
Waiting for some Trophy news :/. Ryan WTF ARE YOU??!?!
MWS Natural
Member
Just finished it tonight. Really had a good time in the earlier acts but as it went on the game wasn't as impressive with the ending cut scenes basically putting me to sleep. Regardless it was all worth the
scene in Act 3 which is still my biggest jaw dropping moment of this gen.
bike chase
Shalashaska
Member
I checked his profile a couple days ago and he was active on the forum that day <_<TTP said:
The further I get away from completing the game for the first time, the more I don't like the ending very much. This is going to sound like an odd complaint, but
::edit::
Skimming through the rest of this thread, and I found this post that basically mirrors my feelings exactly, particularly -
I really wish Snake would have died. Months before the game came out, it was rumored that Snake dies. He's had Foxdie in him for over a decade or so. From the very beginning of the game they're talking about how he only has a little time left, and his health is getting worse and worse throughout the game. It all felt like a race against the clock; will you be able to stop Liquid before the timer's up?
Then, at the very end, right after the virus is uploaded and the AIs destroyed, Snake is lying there in what looks like a graveyard having just been through hell in the microwave hallway (that everyone said was a death sentence to go through), all torn up and beaten down, and Naomi says he can finally rest. I thought it was a great way for him to go out, he just gave up everything and was able to save the day just before he died.
Next thing you know, he's somehow out on the deck again, and Otacon is going to get medical help. I became a little confused at that point. Then Liquid pops in and somehow gets you on top of that tower. Next thing you know there is all sorts of CQC getting thrown around and Snake doesn't seem to be in any worse shape than he had been in earlier chapters. ??? Okay, whatever, you had to have the final showdown with Liquid, but NOW Snake will die and the story is complete. Awesome.
Then you get to the wedding. Otacon's sheepish answer when Sunny asked where Snake was really led me to believe that Snake was gone, and they just went with the off screen death situation. THEN it shows him still alive, at the cemetery, and he shoots himself. It's about damn time, I thought to myself, if he had died 30 minutes ago I would have thought it was awesome, now it's just getting dragged out.
Queue the scene after the voice actors where you find out he DIDN'T shoot himself, and suddenly Big Boss comes out of left field, and Foxdie even kills HIM after like 10 minutes but Snake is still kickin'. Then there's some lame little moral about living what time he has left without any more fighting.
For two hours I'm sitting there hearing about how he can finally rest, for months I thought he ended up dying a hero's death, and in the end all you get is a feel good motivational speech style fade to black.
I'd also like to note that I thought Big Boss showing up at all was kind of silly and completely unnecessary. Just seemed like fanservice imo.
Then, at the very end, right after the virus is uploaded and the AIs destroyed, Snake is lying there in what looks like a graveyard having just been through hell in the microwave hallway (that everyone said was a death sentence to go through), all torn up and beaten down, and Naomi says he can finally rest. I thought it was a great way for him to go out, he just gave up everything and was able to save the day just before he died.
Next thing you know, he's somehow out on the deck again, and Otacon is going to get medical help. I became a little confused at that point. Then Liquid pops in and somehow gets you on top of that tower. Next thing you know there is all sorts of CQC getting thrown around and Snake doesn't seem to be in any worse shape than he had been in earlier chapters. ??? Okay, whatever, you had to have the final showdown with Liquid, but NOW Snake will die and the story is complete. Awesome.
Then you get to the wedding. Otacon's sheepish answer when Sunny asked where Snake was really led me to believe that Snake was gone, and they just went with the off screen death situation. THEN it shows him still alive, at the cemetery, and he shoots himself. It's about damn time, I thought to myself, if he had died 30 minutes ago I would have thought it was awesome, now it's just getting dragged out.
Queue the scene after the voice actors where you find out he DIDN'T shoot himself, and suddenly Big Boss comes out of left field, and Foxdie even kills HIM after like 10 minutes but Snake is still kickin'. Then there's some lame little moral about living what time he has left without any more fighting.
For two hours I'm sitting there hearing about how he can finally rest, for months I thought he ended up dying a hero's death, and in the end all you get is a feel good motivational speech style fade to black.
I'd also like to note that I thought Big Boss showing up at all was kind of silly and completely unnecessary. Just seemed like fanservice imo.
::edit::
Skimming through the rest of this thread, and I found this post that basically mirrors my feelings exactly, particularly -
JasoNsider said:
shpankey
not an idiot
Been playing the game. Some quickies...
When I first started the game, I hated it. There was no need for either sneeking or fighting, you could just run past all the enemies at speed to the next section.
Then the game became AMAZING after the first few levels. I was in awe both graphically and gameplay wise.
But after the third install, or actually about 3/4 way through the second, I realized I was no longer playing a game but watching a movie, with literally sometimes there being 5 to 15 second parts of gameplay between 30+ minute long cutscenes, that would lead to another long cutscene. I kid you not.
Holy shit. I just want to play again.
After the 4th install, i'ts back to more gameplay, thank God.
Awesome game though, even the cut-scenes are pretty amazing to watch, but wow, that 2nd & 3rd install sections was just completely dominated by them.
p.s. anyone know of a guide to find all the podcasts? I've only found one but loved it, hope to find a lot more but since I'm so far in the game I've no doubt missed them. Great idea though. f'n cool.
oh, how many sections are there? I'm on the 4th.
When I first started the game, I hated it. There was no need for either sneeking or fighting, you could just run past all the enemies at speed to the next section.
Then the game became AMAZING after the first few levels. I was in awe both graphically and gameplay wise.
But after the third install, or actually about 3/4 way through the second, I realized I was no longer playing a game but watching a movie, with literally sometimes there being 5 to 15 second parts of gameplay between 30+ minute long cutscenes, that would lead to another long cutscene. I kid you not.
Holy shit. I just want to play again.
After the 4th install, i'ts back to more gameplay, thank God.
Awesome game though, even the cut-scenes are pretty amazing to watch, but wow, that 2nd & 3rd install sections was just completely dominated by them.
p.s. anyone know of a guide to find all the podcasts? I've only found one but loved it, hope to find a lot more but since I'm so far in the game I've no doubt missed them. Great idea though. f'n cool.
oh, how many sections are there? I'm on the 4th.
How hard would getting Big Boss rank be if you don't have the Solar Gun? I'm kind of stuck on the second part of Act 1 (the second map where Mk. II is), and it's been about two months since I've made any type of progress. Will things get easier once I get my tranq gun back?
Red Blaster
Member
shpankey said:p.s. anyone know of a guide to find all the podcasts? I've only found one but loved it, hope to find a lot more but since I'm so far in the game I've no doubt missed them. Great idea though. f'n cool.
There's only one podcast in the game, there's supposed to be more for download but Ryan Payton's gone AWOL.
Naked Snake
Member
Monroeski said:
Monroeski said:
Get out of my brain! Your echoing my sentiments exactly. Only thing I don't agree with you on is the (3 > 1 = 4 > 2) ranking you gave the games.
shpankey
not an idiot
This the one on the motorcycle? I used the M4 Carbine, added the silencer [it extends the lock on range) and used the Auto Aim (square button) and add the hand grip (also extends the lock on). All you have to do is pull the trigger, it will lock on to all the enemies for you. It makes is really easy though. I've used this weapon through the whole game. If you add the scope you even have a sniper rifle built in basically.U K Narayan said:
No, each version is locked to its own servers. JP version only has Japanese and only connects to the JP servers. US version only has English and only connects to US servers. EU only connects to EU servers. Asia English connects to the US servers, while Asia JP connects to the JP servers.ty_hot said:
Shalashaska
Member
At first I kind of thought the same way but now I don't mind it. Snake was created to be a war machine, always in the midst of battle, not able to reproduce.Monroeski said:
At least for the end, he'll be able to enjoy the last bit of his life with no conflicts. He'll be able to die in peace. I don't think that that's a little 'lame moral', that's all he's ever done.
Monroeski said:
Troidal said:
I think this game needs a huge fucking ass post-mortem. In retrospect there are quite a number of things I'm disappointed with; just need to find the time to sit and think and write about it. What is pleasant is that there are constantly new posters coming in to write about them playing through the game for the first time. However, I do think that sales of MGS4 won't be as through-the-roof as it could have been... yes, 3.9 million shipped is impressive and good but it could have been even more. Sigh. Will find time soon.
So I hate stealth/sneak games with a passion. I've given them more than enough chances (Thief, Splinter Cell, Hitman, etc). For some crazy reason I asked my wife for MGS4 for my birthday and got it. I went from "Wow this is great" on the first level to "Ok I am getting *really* frustrated" on the second. Then, ACT II, it just clicked. Wow, I am hooked on this game now. Figuring out proper stealth and getting around the levels undetected is just so rewarding. I am loving it. It's like learning a new skill.
I wanted to get to know the backstory so bad once I got into it that I ordered the Essential collection and am playing MSG1 and MSG4 simultaneously and will probably play 4 again once I get through 2 & 3 (which should be some time in 2009 unless I quit my job and get a divorce).
I dismissed all the hyperbole "OMG greatest game ever" when the game came out. While its place in gaming history's top 100 list is up for debate, I can say this is the first game I ever felt I was smack dab in the middle of a battle before and I have been gaming since the 2600.
Great fucking game.
I wanted to get to know the backstory so bad once I got into it that I ordered the Essential collection and am playing MSG1 and MSG4 simultaneously and will probably play 4 again once I get through 2 & 3 (which should be some time in 2009 unless I quit my job and get a divorce).
I dismissed all the hyperbole "OMG greatest game ever" when the game came out. While its place in gaming history's top 100 list is up for debate, I can say this is the first game I ever felt I was smack dab in the middle of a battle before and I have been gaming since the 2600.
Great fucking game.
Red Blaster
Member
gantz85 said:
That's more of a problem with the size of the PS3's userbase rather than MGS4 itself.
Augemitbutter
Member
CoG said:
good post man.
also MGS 4 shipped 3.9 million? thats impressive, as ive never expected that much.
Shalashaska said:
But it just doesn't FEEL right for him to be living without conflicts. As you said, he was created to be a war machine. Fighting is all he's ever known. I just can't picture Snake becoming a tourist or going on a cruise or something. I don't think he would be happy sitting at home catching up on all the TV he's missed.
He's a fighter through and through. I just can't see him relaxing and just watching the clock, waiting to die.
He's a fighter through and through. I just can't see him relaxing and just watching the clock, waiting to die.
Just finished the game last night, it was the first in the Metal Gear series I played entirely through. I attempted MGS 2 but didn't even make it through the tanker. I started off with mixed impressions... so most people love the game but many can't stand it because of the cutscenes. I tried to play it without any reservations and wanted to make my own judgements about it.
The game is very impressive. I think it pushes the video game genre forward quite a bit, even if I would have done things differently in terms of cutscenes vs actual playtime. The cutscenes though, while long, were extremely well done... there's obviously a ton of thought and planning that went into each one. By the end of the game I was almost looking forward to the next cutscene, and the story was really interesting (I read the background on the OP). The only part I felt didn't flow like the rest of the game was Drebbin explaining all the beasts... while the theme of the beasts made sense I was surprised they didn't change up the story more, they all felt so similar and I would have liked a bit more variation. The gameplay though is where this game really shines. As a post not long before me mentioned that finding new ways to sneak around levels is very rewarding... but also killing a guy without getting noticed is also extremely fun. That coupled with all the customization and weapons you can use it's very deep gameplay wise.
.
Overall, though it wasn't my favourite game ever created, I think MGS4 still ranks in my top 10 and I really do think it pushed the action genre forward, as well as the video game industry through such deep and involved cutscenes and gameplay. That's all for now!
The game is very impressive. I think it pushes the video game genre forward quite a bit, even if I would have done things differently in terms of cutscenes vs actual playtime. The cutscenes though, while long, were extremely well done... there's obviously a ton of thought and planning that went into each one. By the end of the game I was almost looking forward to the next cutscene, and the story was really interesting (I read the background on the OP). The only part I felt didn't flow like the rest of the game was Drebbin explaining all the beasts... while the theme of the beasts made sense I was surprised they didn't change up the story more, they all felt so similar and I would have liked a bit more variation. The gameplay though is where this game really shines. As a post not long before me mentioned that finding new ways to sneak around levels is very rewarding... but also killing a guy without getting noticed is also extremely fun. That coupled with all the customization and weapons you can use it's very deep gameplay wise.
Act I, II and V were definitely my favourites, and one of the parts that stands out the most to me was right after you get launched onto the ship in act V... I failed it a bunch of times but every time was more fun than the last as I figured out a better route. Finally the battle with Liquid I thought was very epic... with the changing music from all the games before it and the use of pre-programmed cutscenes for different moments in the battle I found myself very emotionally involved, and I think they wrapped up the story really well
Overall, though it wasn't my favourite game ever created, I think MGS4 still ranks in my top 10 and I really do think it pushed the action genre forward, as well as the video game industry through such deep and involved cutscenes and gameplay. That's all for now!
I don't know if this was already posted, and i don't care. It should be posted again if it was. It's that awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqrC3RQaHLY
:lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqrC3RQaHLY
:lol
freethought
Member
johnnyg87 said:
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. They just felt so tacked on. I've said it before; the Beauty encounters were meant to add an emotional context (it's the first time MGS made me actually feel compelled to go the non-lethal route) and for whatever reason they decided it wasn't enough.
Again, I couldn't agree more. Stealth in MGS is the closest anyone's ever come to replicating the feel of playing a 2D Mario game. The beginning of Act V in particular is amazing. I must have played it for five hours straight trying to get it right. It's just such an exquisitely designed section. TTP has it bang on when he says it's a game with breadth, not necessarily length. I mean, I must have played (yes, PLAYED) for about 50 or 60 hours before I found the
small prison camp
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Monroeski said:
The reason why you can't imagine him doing any of those things is because it's not even Snake's style. Can you imagine him being a musher? He actually was at one time, so I guess he's more of a wildness guy.
Snake dying a warrior's death is the expected, inevitable outcome. By it's nature, the MGS series needs a memorable, unexpected conclusion. I don't think the long-winded Big Boss exposition filled ending had the best execution, but a big part of me did still like the very concept of Snake being a true anomaly. The only one of the old "war legends" able to break the cycle and experience a truly war-free existence. Even for a relatively fleeting moment. It's his reward and he deserves it.
Both Boss and Big Boss came to the conclusion that a career soldier will experience a life of endless battle until the day they die; it was impossible to escape your fate. The karma of others will be your undoing, and you'll never have the luxury to die of old age. Defying the expected outcome seems to be Snake's specialty, wouldn't you say?
Snake dying a warrior's death is the expected, inevitable outcome. By it's nature, the MGS series needs a memorable, unexpected conclusion. I don't think the long-winded Big Boss exposition filled ending had the best execution, but a big part of me did still like the very concept of Snake being a true anomaly. The only one of the old "war legends" able to break the cycle and experience a truly war-free existence. Even for a relatively fleeting moment. It's his reward and he deserves it.
Both Boss and Big Boss came to the conclusion that a career soldier will experience a life of endless battle until the day they die; it was impossible to escape your fate. The karma of others will be your undoing, and you'll never have the luxury to die of old age. Defying the expected outcome seems to be Snake's specialty, wouldn't you say?
DO NOT READ THIS POST UNTIL YOU'VE COMPLETED THE GAME!
DO NOT READ THIS POST UNTIL YOU'VE COMPLETED THE GAME!
It has been about 2 months since my completing of MGS4, and with the time away from it to think and the opportunity to talk to people about it I'm ready for more conversation. Hopefully alot more posters come back in and post their own post-mortems as well.
At the end of the day I think Metal Gear Solid 4 as a standalone game and as a part of the series is a disappointment despite some outstanding achievements. For me, the burden of the flaws of MGS4 lies squarely on Kojima, primarily because MGS4 lacks balance, cohesion and direction. We have heard reviewers call for an "editor", but Kojima himself as director would have a major role to play in editing alongside collaborators.
(1) MGS4 and Solid Snake It seems like the game's direction was about telling the final chapter of Solid Snake, and some of this was done quite well in his constant struggle with accelerated aging and some conversations with Merly like the initial meeting and the conversation at the European security checkpoint where she emphasises that he is a legend and hero, but is now old. That scene tries to build up a mythology of Solid Snake the legendary soldier but the effort as a theme is not sustained enough throughout the game, and it's just a symptom of its general schizophrenia.
The final extra-epilogue of the game could have been ALL about Solid Snake but instead was an hour long babbling by Naked Snake/Big Boss about nano-tech but mostly about him, Zero and blah blah blah. The progression was already poor enough when Snake failed to shoot himself, which seems out-of-character from the Snake we know and this was all the more jarring when throughout the game we never saw Snake's struggle with death -- only his struggle with aging. I really wasn't interested in Big Boss' ramble; the explanations should all have been done prior so as to leave the final epilogue a true dedication to Snake and the conclusion of his legend. Instead it ended up muddled and exhausting.
(2) Gameplay Balance & Design. The cutscenes were overwhelming despite their stunning entertainment value, and there are puzzling problems which should not have happened. There are times when there is a mere few minutes or even seconds of gameplay before another extended cutscene and those seconds seem more like sorry reminders that it is still a game you're playing. All this shit should have been sorted out by Kojipro and especially Kojima -- sure, this is MGS4 and you want to make sure it's a fitting end but there really should have been alot more control and direction of the scenes. It should never have grown beyond their initial plans of less-cutscenes-more-gameplay.
They could have and should have expended more of their efforts on the gameplay rather than the cutscenes. I do agree that the core gameplay mechanics are the best in the series -- the shooting is exhilarating and satisfying, the stealth has moved forward with Octocamo and a remote option in MK II&III, but the gameplay situations are sometimes poor. The first Act has some amazing components to it with the huge levels and multiple options you can take, but the scripted nature limits it. Act II, III, IV and V all seem to have gameplay that isn't as richly realized as it should have been. No one was stalking you in Act II and the gameplay situation wasn't as richly varied as it could have been -- what about vertically climbing hills and crawling your way through water passages? Act III's European stalking affair only had two obstacles in situated guards and one patrolling van, and the motorcycle chase had way too much loading in-between for its own good. It was very bland. Act IV's ridiculous story arc aside, the Metal Gear Ray gameplay was WAYYYY too underutilized. It is a crowning technical achievement, looked amazing and gave you a badass King Kong feeling that should have been milked and juiced for all its worth. Meh. Act V was low on gameplay content.
The glorious bosses in MGS3 also led to heightened expectations in MGS4 but they weren't quite up to par. You also weren't quite as attached to them as the previous MGSes which made it disappointing when you finished them off.. sure they're hot chicks, but you didn't know anything or care about them when you finished the deed. Drebin gave you an after-story but this is a basic fault in story-telling.. you want to build up the characters before the confrontation, and not fill in after it. It made the fights feel very CLINICAL, and very little felt at stake. This is different from fighting with The End, who was a legendary sniper on his last breath, or Sniper Wolf, an old colleague of Snake and Otacon's obsession. Simply poor.
I do think that Kojima is primarily responsible for these faults. The story could have been built and told so much more concisely and cohesively, with a focus on thematic motifs and buildups with climaxes and resolutions but so many of it were passing remarks or moments that never had any significant depth or came to any significant fruition. The worst problem was that I never felt that Snake was fully fleshed out.. the struggle with age and his pride was done alright, and as a genetic soldier maybe we couldn't have asked to see Snake being all sensitive and listing his favorite books-I-cry-to but there simply weren't any significant humanistic moments like a struggle with his decision to end himself, or a sense of hope for life.. I don't even remember him laughing or smiling throughout the game; I don't expect that, but I expected more than the poor attempt at characterization and a final tribute to a retiring legend.
MGS4 smells of missed opportunities for me. ACT I's rebellion vs PMC dynamic was shallow and the rebels were never fleshed out as people or as a force of culture, will, or anything else. They were just tools for you to manipulate and as a result are extremely forgettable. None of the rebels were story-involved NPCs and this meant that you could never put a face or character to the group... hearing their cheers when you clear a map of PMCs meant NOTHING to me except that the map was clear of PMCs. When you exit the warzone and move into Act III, the rebels are completely forgotten.. what could have been a rich source of thematic and characteristic material was squandered.
My two favorite story-related moments of MGS4 was finding the teddy bear at the port of the ship while using the MK II in the first cutscene... it was a subtle clue to Sunny's character and also posed question -- What is the teddy bear doing here? Did she put it here by mistake or did Otacon do it out of dumbness? Is Sunny looking for it? Can I take it to her? Just a simple teddy bear on the floor generated alot more depth and complexity in reflection and thought than so many other elements and scenes and themes in the game. Another was Raiden's kid's expression and reaction. Really well animated.
At the end of the day I'm not sure how to rank MGS4 against the other MGS games or against other games in general. This is because I'm not quite sure what the measuring criteria should be... entertainment? Core mechanical gameplay? Satisfaction factor? Tribute factor? Wow moments? Production value? Contribution to the mythology? Any different balance of these different factors will tip the balance but I do know MGS4 was disappointing mainly because it should have been ALL ABOUT SNAKE. I essentially do not really care about Raiden, or Campbell, and most certainly not about Meryl and Johnny fucking Sasaki's marriage. Ending the game with a one hour babble explaining the story was the biggest mistake they could ever make.
I don't think there's much Kojipro can reasonably do to make amends; addressing my qualm would require Kojima to take responsibility and really discipline himself in editing. And that would consequently result in a LOT of work required to be done. I think Kojima has said that there wouldn't be an MGS4: XXX coming out.. that may be the best thing to happen, because if there were, there would be a fuckload to do :lol
Here's to hearing your opinion, and also hearing from Kojipro soon. We've not heard ANYTHING from Kojima Productions since MGS4's release, and that is strange. I guess a two month break after a 4 year production is reasonable; I can't wait till they get back and a two-way dialogue between players and development team opens up. I think there is a serious need for that.
DO NOT READ THIS POST UNTIL YOU'VE COMPLETED THE GAME!
It has been about 2 months since my completing of MGS4, and with the time away from it to think and the opportunity to talk to people about it I'm ready for more conversation. Hopefully alot more posters come back in and post their own post-mortems as well.
At the end of the day I think Metal Gear Solid 4 as a standalone game and as a part of the series is a disappointment despite some outstanding achievements. For me, the burden of the flaws of MGS4 lies squarely on Kojima, primarily because MGS4 lacks balance, cohesion and direction. We have heard reviewers call for an "editor", but Kojima himself as director would have a major role to play in editing alongside collaborators.
(1) MGS4 and Solid Snake It seems like the game's direction was about telling the final chapter of Solid Snake, and some of this was done quite well in his constant struggle with accelerated aging and some conversations with Merly like the initial meeting and the conversation at the European security checkpoint where she emphasises that he is a legend and hero, but is now old. That scene tries to build up a mythology of Solid Snake the legendary soldier but the effort as a theme is not sustained enough throughout the game, and it's just a symptom of its general schizophrenia.
The final extra-epilogue of the game could have been ALL about Solid Snake but instead was an hour long babbling by Naked Snake/Big Boss about nano-tech but mostly about him, Zero and blah blah blah. The progression was already poor enough when Snake failed to shoot himself, which seems out-of-character from the Snake we know and this was all the more jarring when throughout the game we never saw Snake's struggle with death -- only his struggle with aging. I really wasn't interested in Big Boss' ramble; the explanations should all have been done prior so as to leave the final epilogue a true dedication to Snake and the conclusion of his legend. Instead it ended up muddled and exhausting.
(2) Gameplay Balance & Design. The cutscenes were overwhelming despite their stunning entertainment value, and there are puzzling problems which should not have happened. There are times when there is a mere few minutes or even seconds of gameplay before another extended cutscene and those seconds seem more like sorry reminders that it is still a game you're playing. All this shit should have been sorted out by Kojipro and especially Kojima -- sure, this is MGS4 and you want to make sure it's a fitting end but there really should have been alot more control and direction of the scenes. It should never have grown beyond their initial plans of less-cutscenes-more-gameplay.
They could have and should have expended more of their efforts on the gameplay rather than the cutscenes. I do agree that the core gameplay mechanics are the best in the series -- the shooting is exhilarating and satisfying, the stealth has moved forward with Octocamo and a remote option in MK II&III, but the gameplay situations are sometimes poor. The first Act has some amazing components to it with the huge levels and multiple options you can take, but the scripted nature limits it. Act II, III, IV and V all seem to have gameplay that isn't as richly realized as it should have been. No one was stalking you in Act II and the gameplay situation wasn't as richly varied as it could have been -- what about vertically climbing hills and crawling your way through water passages? Act III's European stalking affair only had two obstacles in situated guards and one patrolling van, and the motorcycle chase had way too much loading in-between for its own good. It was very bland. Act IV's ridiculous story arc aside, the Metal Gear Ray gameplay was WAYYYY too underutilized. It is a crowning technical achievement, looked amazing and gave you a badass King Kong feeling that should have been milked and juiced for all its worth. Meh. Act V was low on gameplay content.
The glorious bosses in MGS3 also led to heightened expectations in MGS4 but they weren't quite up to par. You also weren't quite as attached to them as the previous MGSes which made it disappointing when you finished them off.. sure they're hot chicks, but you didn't know anything or care about them when you finished the deed. Drebin gave you an after-story but this is a basic fault in story-telling.. you want to build up the characters before the confrontation, and not fill in after it. It made the fights feel very CLINICAL, and very little felt at stake. This is different from fighting with The End, who was a legendary sniper on his last breath, or Sniper Wolf, an old colleague of Snake and Otacon's obsession. Simply poor.
I do think that Kojima is primarily responsible for these faults. The story could have been built and told so much more concisely and cohesively, with a focus on thematic motifs and buildups with climaxes and resolutions but so many of it were passing remarks or moments that never had any significant depth or came to any significant fruition. The worst problem was that I never felt that Snake was fully fleshed out.. the struggle with age and his pride was done alright, and as a genetic soldier maybe we couldn't have asked to see Snake being all sensitive and listing his favorite books-I-cry-to but there simply weren't any significant humanistic moments like a struggle with his decision to end himself, or a sense of hope for life.. I don't even remember him laughing or smiling throughout the game; I don't expect that, but I expected more than the poor attempt at characterization and a final tribute to a retiring legend.
MGS4 smells of missed opportunities for me. ACT I's rebellion vs PMC dynamic was shallow and the rebels were never fleshed out as people or as a force of culture, will, or anything else. They were just tools for you to manipulate and as a result are extremely forgettable. None of the rebels were story-involved NPCs and this meant that you could never put a face or character to the group... hearing their cheers when you clear a map of PMCs meant NOTHING to me except that the map was clear of PMCs. When you exit the warzone and move into Act III, the rebels are completely forgotten.. what could have been a rich source of thematic and characteristic material was squandered.
My two favorite story-related moments of MGS4 was finding the teddy bear at the port of the ship while using the MK II in the first cutscene... it was a subtle clue to Sunny's character and also posed question -- What is the teddy bear doing here? Did she put it here by mistake or did Otacon do it out of dumbness? Is Sunny looking for it? Can I take it to her? Just a simple teddy bear on the floor generated alot more depth and complexity in reflection and thought than so many other elements and scenes and themes in the game. Another was Raiden's kid's expression and reaction. Really well animated.
At the end of the day I'm not sure how to rank MGS4 against the other MGS games or against other games in general. This is because I'm not quite sure what the measuring criteria should be... entertainment? Core mechanical gameplay? Satisfaction factor? Tribute factor? Wow moments? Production value? Contribution to the mythology? Any different balance of these different factors will tip the balance but I do know MGS4 was disappointing mainly because it should have been ALL ABOUT SNAKE. I essentially do not really care about Raiden, or Campbell, and most certainly not about Meryl and Johnny fucking Sasaki's marriage. Ending the game with a one hour babble explaining the story was the biggest mistake they could ever make.
I don't think there's much Kojipro can reasonably do to make amends; addressing my qualm would require Kojima to take responsibility and really discipline himself in editing. And that would consequently result in a LOT of work required to be done. I think Kojima has said that there wouldn't be an MGS4: XXX coming out.. that may be the best thing to happen, because if there were, there would be a fuckload to do :lol
Here's to hearing your opinion, and also hearing from Kojipro soon. We've not heard ANYTHING from Kojima Productions since MGS4's release, and that is strange. I guess a two month break after a 4 year production is reasonable; I can't wait till they get back and a two-way dialogue between players and development team opens up. I think there is a serious need for that.
So... I was going home and I was walking pass the campus coffee shop. They usually have the music up, blaring some rock or alternative. But today, I heard something familiar and did a double take.
I'm living in a dreaaaaaam. Snake Eaaaaaaater!!
I swear, I almost laughed uncontrollably in public!
I'm living in a dreaaaaaam. Snake Eaaaaaaater!!
I swear, I almost laughed uncontrollably in public!
brandonh83
Banned
Well this explains the difference between you and people who loved the game. Nothing wrong with it, I just think you pointed it out yourself. I thought Raiden's story was one of the best parts of the game, and fans since day one deserved the closure they got on Campbell, Meryl, and hell even Johnny. I thought it was all very satisfying; too bad it wasn't for you. I'm on my third playthrough, the first one I've had since the game came out (beat it twice in a row).
If I had to absolutely complain about the game, I'd say it would have to do something with an idea that I initially liked: the act structure. While I love how each act provided a distinct feel between one another, and while the game altogether was pretty long, the act dividers made a lot of things feel really short. I think I may have liked it more, too, if the gang wasn't cruising around in an aircraft between acts... like Snake was the only one in danger while Otacon and Sunny and so forth just got to chill back. Perhaps putting them in danger may have made the story (at least when it comes to the other characters) more tense. I was hoping Otacon would have gotten in on more of the action this time, but alas.
Aside from that, MGS4 ended up being everything I wanted and then some. Besides loving the story, the gameplay and weapon customization is so awesome that I can't seem to want to ever put it down. I think it's incredible.
I do disagree with you though when you say that it should have been all about Snake. I would say most of the game is about Snake. But like any story there should always be tons of other elements about it other than the main character.
GeneralIroh
Member
gantz85 said:
I agree with some of your points in your critical review. Kojima needs to show some restraint.
Is it me or do a lot of the cutscenes seem like excess fat.
Were you bother by the cutscene where the boat was about to crash into snake? I hated how they ruined Raiden's sacrifice and wasted time with him remembering rose's voice.
The break dancing scene in act 2 where raiden had gekkos attached to his legs was full of bad cheese.
They should've had only one scene of Otacon crying. After showing him cry so much it turned comical and annoying rather than something you would sympathize with.
They could've also shown less scenes where snake seemed like he was gonna die. Act 4 ruined a lot of emotional impact.
Were you bother by the cutscene where the boat was about to crash into snake? I hated how they ruined Raiden's sacrifice and wasted time with him remembering rose's voice.
The break dancing scene in act 2 where raiden had gekkos attached to his legs was full of bad cheese.
They should've had only one scene of Otacon crying. After showing him cry so much it turned comical and annoying rather than something you would sympathize with.
They could've also shown less scenes where snake seemed like he was gonna die. Act 4 ruined a lot of emotional impact.
[/spoiler]
GeneralIroh said:
How about
Raiden's monologue at the end of Act 3, "I don't want to be a pawn anymore, blah blah blah" How many times do we need to hear that same fucking speech. That whole 'conversation' with him and Snake was just cringe-worthy and totally unnecessary. Why the hell would he even try and get up in the first place? They were still in Europe at that time, what the fuck was he planning on doing on route to Alaska? "Raiden, I am a shadow, you can be a light!" lololol, that was the shittiest dialogue I've ever heard in a MG game..just take that entire scene out.
Not to mention EVA's overly melodramatic death (seriously, was she developed at all as a character in this game?), "I finally cooked them right", Naomi's ridiculous death, the wedding, and plenty more. Overall just not nearly good a plot as it could've been.
Not to mention EVA's overly melodramatic death (seriously, was she developed at all as a character in this game?), "I finally cooked them right", Naomi's ridiculous death, the wedding, and plenty more. Overall just not nearly good a plot as it could've been.
Meryl was awesome though, her dialogue sounded natural (except 1 scene),
"AND YOU BETTER NOT CHEAT ON ME!"
"relationship" with Johnny all the more disappointing, what a shitty ending
brandonh83 said:
Well, I don't disagree that it has the best shooting and stealth core mechanical gameplay, but the situational gameplay isn't all that great due to lack of variety (in level design, situations) and depth.
Another thing is I obviously recognize the game is mainly about Snake or started off with that general direction.. but he wasn't fleshed out enough, wasn't given an adequate enough third dimension to his character, and was robbed of an authentic and satisfying ending.
NinjaCodah
Member
gantz85 said:
Sure, name any great game out there and i can spin every single little detail into a "flaw" as well. You try too hard.
in like halfway through act 2 and am still loving this game. im really enjoying the cutscenes. and though i suck at stealth games and usually hate them, (changed now to me recently beating mgs1,2,3) i actually am doing pretty well. There are random times where i get an alert but i never die i always take care of it. i love this game so much.
as much as id like Kojima to make sequels and sequels and sequels.... his idea of making an rpg is awesome. Not only are they a japanese developer (JRPG anyone?), but they love huge cinematic stories... Hideo and his team were made to make to most epic rpg ever known to man. they already own the action genre.
i love this game so much. as much as id like Kojima to make sequels and sequels and sequels.... his idea of making an rpg is awesome. Not only are they a japanese developer (JRPG anyone?), but they love huge cinematic stories... Hideo and his team were made to make to most epic rpg ever known to man. they already own the action genre.
NinjaCodah said:
:lol It's the tards that you that make me reflexively understand other posters' complaints about the over defensiveness of fans. I am not trying to "spin" MGS4's qualities into "flaws".. I do honestly think of it as a big problem and this recent big post was merely a refined version of an earlier post I made in this thread right after completing the game (June 15th?).
Like I said, I'm open to dialogue and listening to what other players and posters thought of MGS4, but simply saying "I disagree with you" or "LOL TARD" or "SPIN WINNAZ" is pretty lame. I think plenty of posters agree with me that MGS4 is heavily flawed -- the complaints were already aplenty in the later part of this thread.. The calls for Kojipro to employ an "editor" to reign in Kojima's tendencies are central to my post, with a difference being I don't think they need an editor but rather for Kojima to have fulfilled the role of director and editor better.
NinjaCodah
Member
No, seriously, I think you're trying too hard.
I would love to write some paragraphs about my experience after clearing 3 times MGS4....but its so difficult not doing it using my native language. So this will be short:
Dont take me wrong....I LOVED MGS4, I think it is the BEST in the series. In my first run I gave it a 10/10...in my 2nd run, a 9.8...and now...my final rating for this game is 9.4/10. Still my game of the year.
Please, dont be harsh on my english...I did the best I could to explain my feelings and being part of this discussion.
Act 1: Incredible! I died A LOT, and with every "game over" (and frustration) I felt better and better....until I realized that I could just run to the next part. I did the same to meet MkII. Hiding was not necessary at all.
Then, I realized that somehow my tranquilizer would be always full of darts....so I just put my enemies to sleep....and continue...if somebody sees me...I just RUN to the next "loading" point.
Act 2: Really really good, I really tried to get the most fun there...but...well, I ended running until I entered the building. If somebody saw me inside, I just did a roll to knock them over...and...continue running until I found the Lab. VERY COOL boss fight...then, Drebin talked half an hour about the beauty and I almost fall asleep.
(when I found the barrel, I wondered WHERE did Snake keep it....when I selected it, it just appeared magically....I dont like these kind of things in a game that is supposed to have a lot of realism.....and btw, MkII/III was extremely perfect. Its impossible to create and build a thing like this...even for a videogame)
Act 3: It got great when I met EVA...to the point that it made me buy MGS3, her storytelling was brilliant. For some reason the camera focuses A LOT on Big Mamma's breasts...I HATED this, so distracting in a bad way. A fantastic motorbike chase is almost ruined by a lot of loading. Boring boss fight.....All the next scene about Liquid destroying everything was SUPERB.
Act 4: I almost cried when I played MGS with PS1 graphics...it was so incredible, a very nice touch. Then, hearing the voices at certain places with GREAT background music was also marvelous in its own way.....The fun ended there, this act turned out VERY boring...no more soldiers, no more tension....only cameras and this little black machines...and Geckos....and 5 hours of cutscenes. Crying Wolf caused me a headache...it NEVER was difficult....just tooo long.
At this point, I realized that weapons, grenades and ammo would NEVER be a problem, because I could always but EVERYTHING at low prices from Drebin. This almost KILLED ALL the experience. Even my cousin (who was with me during almost all my first run) said that it was dull and silly.
Well, lets go to the end of this act....Raiden appears to save Snake...he is KILLED, RUN OVER by a GIGANTIC ship....we even hear a sad song and his conversation with Rose. Very nice touch to apparently have a nostalgic and dramatic death of Raiden....this really touched my heart....
but....then....later in the game....Snake asks Otacon for Raiden's condition....and Otacon says that he is fine and is recovering. WHAT! Raiden should have DIE there, there was NO reason for him to stay alive. His death would have been another GREAT reason to get revenge on Liquid.
Act 5 was a joke....I basically RUN all my way to Psycho Mantis, who dissapointed me A LOT....when I saw him I was excited....I expected him to say when I bought my PS3, my IP address, my country...that I have yet to clear Hell Mode in Heavenly Sword...that I bought a 60gb PS3 and did not wait for a price cut....you know...etc....
but...NOTHING. It actually was the easiest boss in the game.
Now, the dramatic part....Snake crawling in the microwave....Meryl and Jhonny fighting for their lives very outnumbered...they SHOULD HAVE DIED THERE. That would have been very cool and melodramatic. You have no idea how I HATED that they survived, it was ridiculous and unreal. I didnt hate them, but they should have died together...I would loved it a lot more than the silly wedding at the end.
The split screen at the end of the microwave was MEMORABLE, something that took MGS4 apart from everything else. There are no words to describe the greatness of this. This would have been even more fantastic if I saw Meryl and Johnny dying in an ultra-dramatic way.
I defeated Liquid almost with tears in my eyes....it was an INCREDIBLE finale. LOVED every second of it.
The ending....well, I just said it before, Meryl and Raiden should have died. I expected and incredible ending ALL ABOUT Snake....something ala Heavenly Sword, where we see Nariko dead getting far away on the sea and everybody respecting and paying tribute to hear.
I would love to see a split screen; Snake dying before my eyes....and A LOT of videos of EVERY Metal Gear, remembering the GLORIOUS career of one of the most iconic characters in videogaming history. THAT would have been, in my opinion, the perfect ending.
I could care less about Meryl, Johnny, Raiden and Rose....and....btw, the Beauties, I completely skipped Drebin's ENDLESS explanations about the last two.
Then, I realized that somehow my tranquilizer would be always full of darts....so I just put my enemies to sleep....and continue...if somebody sees me...I just RUN to the next "loading" point.
Act 2: Really really good, I really tried to get the most fun there...but...well, I ended running until I entered the building. If somebody saw me inside, I just did a roll to knock them over...and...continue running until I found the Lab. VERY COOL boss fight...then, Drebin talked half an hour about the beauty and I almost fall asleep.
(when I found the barrel, I wondered WHERE did Snake keep it....when I selected it, it just appeared magically....I dont like these kind of things in a game that is supposed to have a lot of realism.....and btw, MkII/III was extremely perfect. Its impossible to create and build a thing like this...even for a videogame)
Act 3: It got great when I met EVA...to the point that it made me buy MGS3, her storytelling was brilliant. For some reason the camera focuses A LOT on Big Mamma's breasts...I HATED this, so distracting in a bad way. A fantastic motorbike chase is almost ruined by a lot of loading. Boring boss fight.....All the next scene about Liquid destroying everything was SUPERB.
Act 4: I almost cried when I played MGS with PS1 graphics...it was so incredible, a very nice touch. Then, hearing the voices at certain places with GREAT background music was also marvelous in its own way.....The fun ended there, this act turned out VERY boring...no more soldiers, no more tension....only cameras and this little black machines...and Geckos....and 5 hours of cutscenes. Crying Wolf caused me a headache...it NEVER was difficult....just tooo long.
At this point, I realized that weapons, grenades and ammo would NEVER be a problem, because I could always but EVERYTHING at low prices from Drebin. This almost KILLED ALL the experience. Even my cousin (who was with me during almost all my first run) said that it was dull and silly.
Well, lets go to the end of this act....Raiden appears to save Snake...he is KILLED, RUN OVER by a GIGANTIC ship....we even hear a sad song and his conversation with Rose. Very nice touch to apparently have a nostalgic and dramatic death of Raiden....this really touched my heart....
but....then....later in the game....Snake asks Otacon for Raiden's condition....and Otacon says that he is fine and is recovering. WHAT! Raiden should have DIE there, there was NO reason for him to stay alive. His death would have been another GREAT reason to get revenge on Liquid.
Act 5 was a joke....I basically RUN all my way to Psycho Mantis, who dissapointed me A LOT....when I saw him I was excited....I expected him to say when I bought my PS3, my IP address, my country...that I have yet to clear Hell Mode in Heavenly Sword...that I bought a 60gb PS3 and did not wait for a price cut....you know...etc....
but...NOTHING. It actually was the easiest boss in the game.
Now, the dramatic part....Snake crawling in the microwave....Meryl and Jhonny fighting for their lives very outnumbered...they SHOULD HAVE DIED THERE. That would have been very cool and melodramatic. You have no idea how I HATED that they survived, it was ridiculous and unreal. I didnt hate them, but they should have died together...I would loved it a lot more than the silly wedding at the end.
The split screen at the end of the microwave was MEMORABLE, something that took MGS4 apart from everything else. There are no words to describe the greatness of this. This would have been even more fantastic if I saw Meryl and Johnny dying in an ultra-dramatic way.
I defeated Liquid almost with tears in my eyes....it was an INCREDIBLE finale. LOVED every second of it.
The ending....well, I just said it before, Meryl and Raiden should have died. I expected and incredible ending ALL ABOUT Snake....something ala Heavenly Sword, where we see Nariko dead getting far away on the sea and everybody respecting and paying tribute to hear.
I would love to see a split screen; Snake dying before my eyes....and A LOT of videos of EVERY Metal Gear, remembering the GLORIOUS career of one of the most iconic characters in videogaming history. THAT would have been, in my opinion, the perfect ending.
I could care less about Meryl, Johnny, Raiden and Rose....and....btw, the Beauties, I completely skipped Drebin's ENDLESS explanations about the last two.
Dont take me wrong....I LOVED MGS4, I think it is the BEST in the series. In my first run I gave it a 10/10...in my 2nd run, a 9.8...and now...my final rating for this game is 9.4/10. Still my game of the year.
Please, dont be harsh on my english...I did the best I could to explain my feelings and being part of this discussion.
Mr. Spinnington
Banned
it's okay, i was the first one on the boards to finish the game with a bad taste in my mouthgantz85 said:
i was laughed out of the thread for selling it on ebay the day after, but at least i won't have to look at that black sheep in my collection anymore
Always-honest
Banned
PedroRVD said:
yeah, can't disagree, though playing the game full stealth: no alerts, do killing, not dying etc.. is how the game becomes really good. but yeah.. that's a waste of some beautifull weapons...
With shooting, alerts, etc.. the game is WAY too easy. i liked some of the level concept though. even the paris one.
gantz85 said:
The game speaks for itself. You may not like the way Kojima ended things but it's his call. Not yours.
You couldn't do a game series half as good anyway even if you tried. Going by your extreme nitpicking your game would never be done anyway.
Edit: Maybe you could write a fanfic? It's not like it's the first time it has been done.
Level 8 Boss
Member
gantz85 said:
QFT. This post basically reflects my issues with the game. In fact, I was thoroughly disappointed by MGS4. Snake Eater essentially destroys this game in almost every conceivable category, graphics aside.
kamorra said:
LOL! I was 100% sure what you were saying before these spoiler tags (seeing the phrases you quoted from my post) :lol
you are right....but....the SITUATIONS where Raiden, Meryl and Johnny were put in...were ones that it was be absolutely ridiculous for them to stay alive. So over the top, so childish in a strange way.
â Narayan
Member
WHAT? Completely asinine.NinjaCodah said:
This guy is right on all accounts. You are obviously trying too hard.
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