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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
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industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
industrian said:
I see. I didn't recognize it by his avatar.
Unfortunately I can't say I've played Thief for more than a few minutes. Still, regardless of how important Thief was to the stealth genre, it's obvious that both MGS1 and MGS2 contributed a lot to it, whereas MGS4 didn't.
revolverjgw
Member
SMZC said:
It may not have innovated much, but the degree to which they tweaked and beefed up the mechanics satisfied me more than enough. I'd take near perfect execution over innovation anyday. Especially in a series like this, with an established formula that still works and can still be used as the framework for an eclectic game.
Intuitive controls with minimal clunkiness, more freedom of movement while walking, crawling, crouching and fighting, a camo-system that fits in to the MGS universe and doesn't rely on tedious menus, solid camera that never obstructs or limits your sense of sight in an illogical manner... it's a big step forward. The gameplay never needed any big changes to stay relevant, just needed streamlining.
Just needed less emphasis on story and more time spent on making some playgrounds for me to stalk around and USE the sweet new controls.
freethought
Member
industrian said:
GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!
I find it difficult to rank the games too. I do think MGS3 may have worst story though. My main gripe with it is that all of MGS4's narrative problems stem from the fact that MGS3 actually exists. The one redeeming aspect of MGS3's narrative is in it's characterisation and I just think MGS4 did it better. Old Snake is the most fully realised character in the history of the medium.
And I still say that the start of Act V is quite probably my favourite section of the entire series. David Ellis should stop banging on about the dire rockworm level and play this section.
If you would have asked me 2 months ago what's the best MGS, I'd say that 3 might be the winner.
But I played Snake Eater again and tons of thing were frustrating as hell. The Camo system is a pain in the ass, and the camera is god awful.
I remebred the story as the highlight, but up until the end, it was quite boring. Even the thrilling 2 hours of the game weren't that great after MGS4 chase scenes.
Since I don't really adore MGS2, I'd say MGS1 is the best Metal Gear, followed by MGS4.
(If anyone cares...)
But I played Snake Eater again and tons of thing were frustrating as hell. The Camo system is a pain in the ass, and the camera is god awful.
I remebred the story as the highlight, but up until the end, it was quite boring. Even the thrilling 2 hours of the game weren't that great after MGS4 chase scenes.
Since I don't really adore MGS2, I'd say MGS1 is the best Metal Gear, followed by MGS4.
(If anyone cares...)
Forgotten_Taco
Member
I think story wise it's mgs1=mgs3>mgs4>mgs2
This thread makes me want to pay vast sums of money for remakes of the first 3.
This thread makes me want to pay vast sums of money for remakes of the first 3.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
MGS3 was easily my favorite because of the cold war era, James Bond stuff. I think the incorporation of historical figures into such a bullshit story is fantastic. Best save girl, too.
autobzooty
Member
Still haven't played this, still am dying to. ("A next Metal Gear" seems to be my only hope at this point.)
I have a couple questions about it though. As you begin, does it sort of give you a quick runthrough of the story from the previous games? I've beaten them all, but still am really confused on a couple of key points in the story and I'd like to get them straightened out before my confusion gets worse.
Secondly, does the game handle combat any better than the previous Metal Gear games? A lot of my problem with this series is that the controls are not so great. They seem more suited to sneaking than to fighting (although I would still prefer some sort of third person adaptation of the Rainbow Six Vegas controls), so when it DOES come down to a fight, you feel really gimped by the controls. How have the controls been changed or improved from previous games?
I have a couple questions about it though. As you begin, does it sort of give you a quick runthrough of the story from the previous games? I've beaten them all, but still am really confused on a couple of key points in the story and I'd like to get them straightened out before my confusion gets worse.
Secondly, does the game handle combat any better than the previous Metal Gear games? A lot of my problem with this series is that the controls are not so great. They seem more suited to sneaking than to fighting (although I would still prefer some sort of third person adaptation of the Rainbow Six Vegas controls), so when it DOES come down to a fight, you feel really gimped by the controls. How have the controls been changed or improved from previous games?
Gameplay wise, I'd say: MGS2>MGS1>MGS4>MGS3 (I'm definitely a sucker for the arcadey gameplay of the first two games and, to a lesser extent, MGS3)
Story, I'd have to say that MGS1=MGS2=MGS3>>>>>>MGS4
Overall, I feel it's MGS1=MGS2>MGS3>>>>>>>>>>MGS4
Seriously, 4 was such a let down. I was a little disappointed by MGS3 back in the day, but at least it had a powerful plot; the gameplay was just a little broken. MGS4 just forgets that it's a Metal Gear game 80% of the time, both in the plot and the gameplay. The only good parts of MGS4 were Acts I & II. III and IV were pretty bad from a gameplay and plot perspective, and Act V was just plain horrible.
Story, I'd have to say that MGS1=MGS2=MGS3>>>>>>MGS4
Overall, I feel it's MGS1=MGS2>MGS3>>>>>>>>>>MGS4
Seriously, 4 was such a let down. I was a little disappointed by MGS3 back in the day, but at least it had a powerful plot; the gameplay was just a little broken. MGS4 just forgets that it's a Metal Gear game 80% of the time, both in the plot and the gameplay. The only good parts of MGS4 were Acts I & II. III and IV were pretty bad from a gameplay and plot perspective, and Act V was just plain horrible.
My rank is MGS2 > MGS1 > MGS3, with MGS4 being way behind those three.
To me, MGS1 and MGS2 marked the series at its best in terms of storyline. Both had complex storylines (or convoluted if you will, but in a good way), full of shocking twists at every turn that not only were surprising, but coherent as well. Now the series has adopted a new style, with much more straight-forward storylines that lack all of the complexity from MGS1 and MGS2, and the amount of huge plot twists has been drastically reduced. I loved the series back in the day when Kojima would pulled off things like Raiden. Now, something like that is unconceivable.
Many people say that MGS3 has the best storyline in the series, but the game actually shines in its pacing and narrative more than in the actual storyline, which isn't so special except for some of its characters (and even though MGS3 obviously beats MGS2 in the pacing and flow departments, I think MGS1 was much better than MGS3 in those regards).
I agree with that last statement, but MGS4's execution is far from perfect. You could say that the first two acts' gameplay is the series gameplay at its peak, but most of the gameplay from act 3 is ruined by the resistance member's shitty AI, act 4 hardly has any gameplay at all since its more about nostalgia than actual gameplay, and in act 5 you don't even play for more than ten minutes.
To me, MGS1 and MGS2 marked the series at its best in terms of storyline. Both had complex storylines (or convoluted if you will, but in a good way), full of shocking twists at every turn that not only were surprising, but coherent as well. Now the series has adopted a new style, with much more straight-forward storylines that lack all of the complexity from MGS1 and MGS2, and the amount of huge plot twists has been drastically reduced. I loved the series back in the day when Kojima would pulled off things like Raiden. Now, something like that is unconceivable.
Many people say that MGS3 has the best storyline in the series, but the game actually shines in its pacing and narrative more than in the actual storyline, which isn't so special except for some of its characters (and even though MGS3 obviously beats MGS2 in the pacing and flow departments, I think MGS1 was much better than MGS3 in those regards).
revolverjgw said:
I agree with that last statement, but MGS4's execution is far from perfect. You could say that the first two acts' gameplay is the series gameplay at its peak, but most of the gameplay from act 3 is ruined by the resistance member's shitty AI, act 4 hardly has any gameplay at all since its more about nostalgia than actual gameplay, and in act 5 you don't even play for more than ten minutes.
Shalashaska
Member
I've debated this a lot with myself since 4 has been out but I really can't pick a favourite. Anytime I try to pick out one, I always think of how much I enjoyed the others. There's no black sheep in the MGS series for me although I'd love a remake of 1-3 with the MGS 4 engine.
Omikaru said:
I dont agree with that. I think pretty much all the MGS so far have deliverd big time in their own way. I found the gameplay and control in MGS4 to be a huuuge leap forward compared to the previous ones. The only part inside me where i felt MGS4 was a bit behind the others , where the boss fights. I didnt find them to be bad or anything like that but just dont "up there" compared to my favorite ones that are in MGS3.
Storywise i would rank MGS4 almost as good as my favorite one MGS3. "MGS4 forgets that it´s Metal Gear game 80% of the time" ? , okay that dosent make any sense whatsoever to me. I truly felt "that" Metal Gear feeling trough the whole game
evil solrac v3.0
Member
shoudn't
it's been six months.....
but maybe he won't?
snake be dead?
but maybe he won't?
Alright. I loved MGS1, MGS2, MGS3 didn't have the chance to amaze me since I dont have a PS2. I tried the MGS4 demo but the appeal wasn't as great as I thought it would be.
I still love to have the game, the trailers still look good to me, but the demo decreased it JUST a notch.
I think I didn't like the middle east setting that much, plus the fact it wasn't crazy MGS with silly villains (Though there were these flying ravens at the end of the demo) nor some gecko fights.
Gaf, if I buy MGS4 will I love it like the rest or will I get slightly dissapointed?
I still love to have the game, the trailers still look good to me, but the demo decreased it JUST a notch.
I think I didn't like the middle east setting that much, plus the fact it wasn't crazy MGS with silly villains (Though there were these flying ravens at the end of the demo) nor some gecko fights.
Gaf, if I buy MGS4 will I love it like the rest or will I get slightly dissapointed?
Shalashaska
Member
The full game isn't in the middle east so don't worry about that.MNC said:
Zeouterlimits
Member
Yeah, that's a good summary of how I feel.Omikaru said:
Edit: Except for the gameplay bit.
Gameplay wise, I'd say: MGS3>MGS>MGS2>MGS4
Shalashaska
Member
Are we talking about how we felt at the time or now? I loved MGS when it came out but its really tough to play now.Zeouterlimits said:
Zeouterlimits
Member
Now, just played through MGS1 again (I bought the PC version years ago (even though I had it on PS1), one of the smartest things I've ever done).Shalashaska said:
â Narayan
Member
I know!Acid08 said:
He's right.
CriscoDisco
Member
3>4>1>2>spam
Shalashaska
Member
I see. There's no way I could put MGS ahead of 2, 3 or 4 for gameplay now. I played them all before 4 came out and I struggled a bit with MGS. I'm afraid to go back now having played 4.Zeouterlimits said:
Zeouterlimits
Member
I loved the gameplay for the first two acts.Shalashaska said:
Hated Act3, enjoyed the nostalgia for Act4 (but I didn't actually do anything interesting), and not sure what happened in the 30 mins of gameplay for Act 5.
F*cking nanomachines.
Shalashaska
Member
Actually, let me rephrase. I should've said controls instead of gameplay, my bad.Zeouterlimits said:
Zeouterlimits
Member
Controls...Shalashaska said:
I see your point. But I guess I can get past them, I know MGS1+MGS2 so well that it comes natural.
But yes the controls for 4 were a great, necessary improvement, and I really do like them.
But controls do not a good game make...
Of course MGS4 is a good game, just rots too quickly and forgets what makes the game(and series) so great.
Shalashaska
Member
That I agree with, but bad controls can hamper a game. What 4 really made me want are remakes of the first 3.Zeouterlimits said:
Make it happen Konami, you don't need Kojima for it so he can work on something else.
I can understand the complaint about MGS4's balance in that the game shifts heavily toward cinematics in the latter acts. That's valid. But as far as the amount of total gameplay...it still stands up well in comparison to the other games. Go back and play MGS1 and skip the cutscenes...there's really not a whole lot of gameplay. Plus MGS4 doesn't feature tedious crap that both MGS1 and MGS2 had (backtracking to get the PSG-1, PAL Keys, defusing the bombs).
Zeouterlimits
Member
Remakes? I... I think it'd be too soon, perhaps post 2010, but even then.Shalashaska said:
Guess it depends on how well they're marketed.
hidepsyence
Member
Blader5489 said:
Could be, but the ending was so awesome that everething that came before was redeemed
Are we talking about the Xbox version? If we are, then I agree.Acid08 said:
If not, then I don't see how its difficult to play. On the contrary, I can understand if someone said MGS3 or MGS was difficult to play, but MGS2 is quite possibly one of the most polished games on the PS2 I've come across. The controls and character movements are tight, uniform, and ultimately reliable.
Its MGS1 next-gen, so to speak.
If you have a hard time playing MGS2, chances are, you're playing it wrong.
Are you mad?Acid08 said:
That dubious title belongs to MGS4. MGS3 was indeed a warning sign in that direction, but to say the plot is the weakest is giving MGS4 too much credit. I personally found Big Boss and The Boss to be some of series' most iconic characters.Blader5489 said:
I'd say MGS3's plot was ruined when it was shoehorned into MGS4 too much. MGS3 is an excellent standalone title from a plot perspective and it's biggest flaw was probably the broken gameplay, like having to pause to switch camouflage, the pointless heal system (it would've been better if injuries had more negative effects on Snake, and if he wasn't a walking hospital), stupidly long alert times for what many consider a game with arcade style gameplay and boring-ass waiting in the grass stealth gameplay.
When you look at MGS3, it stands by itself really, really well. You don't need to have played MGS1 or 2 to have played MGS3. The same can't be said of MGS2, which is quite the mess if you've missed the first one. MGS4 is in a whole different realm in this aspect, as it's weighed down needlessly by the fiction of the whole series. It has such a shallow plot because Kojima was more interested in fanservice and answering the fans' questions.
At least MGS3 established a cast of mostly interesting, new characters who we could get to know from start to finish. MGS4 took our favourite characters from 1, 2 and 3, gave them a personality transplant and dumped them into a shitty fiction with skewered, two-dimensional motives.
Edit: Oh, and if a tricky question came up in MGS4, Kojima would sprinkle fair du-- I mean, nanomachines into the plot. It really is the most hideous thing he's ever made. There are few redeeming points of MGS4's plot once you get past Act II.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Go in with expectations and you could be disappointed.MNC said:
It depends on what you're looking for. It's worth playing if you have a PS3.
Shalashaska
Member
I'm an MGS whore so I want as much as I can as soon as I can. :lolZeouterlimits said:
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