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[Conrad Link]

Spoiler

I always just figured Kojima changed his mind by the time got to MGS4 and didn't want the 'Liquid's arm taking over thing' that they had planned before (voice etc), so kinda just ignored it and got us to say umm.... Nanomachines! :lol

 

[∀ Narayan]

Spoiler

Okay, once again, nano-fucking-machines. Those shits can make some almost immortal, cure cancer in a heartbeat, tag you to a weapon. Why wouldn't they be able to modify your voice ?

Seriously, there's a lot of shit that "doesn't make sense" (as in, not in par with the real technology) in MGS, so I don't see why this wouldn't be any less believable.
I find it really more believable than

Spoiler

"omg, his spirit lived through his arm"

So, basically, you think that this entire story deal with Metal Gear Solid 4 was planned from the get go?

That's like saying Metroid Prime was always planned after Metroid was made.

It's retconned, buddy. Get over it.

Spoiler

I always just figured Kojima changed his mind by the time got to MGS4 and didn't want the 'Liquid's arm taking over thing' that they had planned before (voice etc), so kinda just ignored it and got us to say umm.... Nanomachines! :lol

This is basically what happened.

 

[Raist]

So, basically, you think that this entire story deal with Metal Gear Solid 4 was planned from the get go?

Did I say that ?.
Nope.

MGS4's storyline wasn't probably not written when he did MGS2.
But not planned at that time doesn't make it retconning.

Spoiler

It's only one possible way of explaining this whole possession stuff, and I think it fits well. The only "fact" that was changed is the look of ocelot's arm. So what ?
It's not like Ocelot comes in MGS4 and says "wtf are you talking about, why did you think I was Liquid Snake. Who's this dude anyway"

If you want a good example of retconning, Tolkien did retcon The Hobbit when he wrote the LotR.

 

[freethought]

So, basically, you think that this entire story deal with Metal Gear Solid 4 was planned from the get go?

That's like saying Metroid Prime was always planned after Metroid was made.

It's retconned, buddy. Get over it.

That's bullshit though.

Spoiler

First of all, Ocelot himself scoffs at the idea of witchcraft and the supernatural. Wouldn't you agree that that's a bit of a strange thing to say when you're periodically being possessed by the ghost of your dead boss? Unless of course, you know something the audience doesn't. (the most common answer I get to this is that seconds after his speech Fortune deflects some missiles to which my reply is always the same; Is it more likely that Fortune, by some massive coincidence, does in fact possess the mystical powers that the Patriots tricked her into believing she had, OR is it not more likey that someone other than Ocelot; GW, another Patriot agent, Ocelot, Olga or a million other possible suspects simply turned on her EM field generator again, unbeknownst to Ocelot?).

Then there's the fact that, as far as I recall, Kojima was pretty widely quoted as saying that an explanation about Liquid/Ocelot would be forthcoming in a sequel, and he said this shortly after MGS2 was released. Put simply, I don't think the spirit medium explanation was ever meant to be the correct one. I don't think Kojima knew what the explanation would be, but I'm pretty confident that he knew what it wasn't.

edit: forgot spoiler tags, oops.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

I need trophies Kojima :'(

 

[T_Tokyo2010]

Still the best thread of all Time.

 

[Cartman86]

Spoiler

He was in Liquid Snake in MGS2. They just retconned it so that it was always Ocelot's doing. Pretty flimsy work, in my opinion.

To me the point of what he said was not to argue MGS4 and how it handled Liquid Snake it was to say that for him he emotionally felt Liquid was dead after MGS1. Weather it be because Liquid's body was gone doesn't matter. He just didn't feel that connection to Liquid anymore. That's what I got from his post.

 

[Guy Legend]

I need trophies Kojima :'(

.

If they want to revive MGO, it's pretty simple to get a solid boost of people playing. Add trophies to MGS4 and MGO - people will come. That and removing the ridiculous Konami log in system.

 

[Always-honest]

I need trophies Kojima :'(

yep. smartest thing they could do right now.

 

[Ken Masters]

yep. smartest thing they could do right now.

I've played the game twice but I could see myself playing it again for trophies

 

[NeoUltima]

They could add trophies pretty easily, just turn all the badges/rankings into trophies.

i remember that being so damn hard, i was doing the "no kill no alert". oh man, i managed to do it tho after multiple of frustrating attempts.

solar gun ftw. 1 hit will knock anyone out in that scene.

 

[jett]

Spoiler

Nanomachines. Hell, for arm twitching and veins bulging, you don't even need nanomachines. As for the arm, there are several possible explanations. One being that they took it back to reconstruct BB's body, and him a synthetic one

Please, just accept that it was retconned and stop trying to defend MGS4's piece of shit plot.

 

[Yoshichan]

Please, just accept that it was retconned and stop trying to defend MGS4's piece of shit plot.

plz sht up k?

 

[Byakuya769]

heh, the things we argue over....

 

[Darkpen]

just don't talk about portable ops or the database, because that's just opening another can of worms

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I think the haters here just forgot about good eastern game design which there hasn't been much of these days. I want to tell a little story.

Last night, my fiancee and I wanted to watch a movie. Normally we skip our large dvd selection in favor of blu-ray... but we wwre picky and decided to browse the "dinosaur media". We got to a movie called 'The Returner'. a Japanese film starring Takeshi Kaneshiro (Samanosuke of Onimusha). We watched it and I was like "Wow, and hear I've been swearing off dvds in favor of hollywood ridden blu-rays... this is better than most action films that come these days".

Anyway... just because you're used to straight forward shooters with blood and gore as it's gimmick, doesn't mean tis game with it's many twists and turns isn't just as great. It's a phenomonal game. What YOU would have wanted to happen instead wouldn't quite make it a Kojima game now would it...?

 

[Catalix]

just don't talk about portable ops or the database, because that's just opening another can of worms

:lol Yeah, touchy subjects.

They could add trophies pretty easily, just turn all the badges/rankings into trophies.

Isn't that what ND did with Uncharted's in-game reward system? Sounds reasonable.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Please, just accept that it was retconned and stop trying to defend MGS4's piece of shit plot.

This is pretty much what I'm trying to say.

Minority. :|

 

[rainer516]

Hey, I liked MGS4's "piece of shit plot" it was standard fare sci-fi that got more and more over the top as it progressed. It had Ninjas, explosions, vampires, giant robots and hot female scientists. So in conclusion: What the hell is wrong with you people!?

 

[Bearillusion]

I think the haters here just forgot about good eastern game design which there hasn't been much of these days. I want to tell a little story.

Last night, my fiancee and I wanted to watch a movie. Normally we skip our large dvd selection in favor of blu-ray... but we wwre picky and decided to browse the "dinosaur media". We got to a movie called 'The Returner'. a Japanese film starring Takeshi Kaneshiro (Samanosuke of Onimusha). We watched it and I was like "Wow, and hear I've been swearing off dvds in favor of hollywood ridden blu-rays... this is better than most action films that come these days".

Anyway... just because you're used to straight forward shooters with blood and gore as it's gimmick, doesn't mean tis game with it's many twists and turns isn't just as great. It's a phenomonal game. What YOU would have wanted to happen instead wouldn't quite make it a Kojima game now would it...?

No offence but I thought you were going somewhere with this post and then...nothing.

 

[Yoshichan]

No offence but I thought you were going somewhere with this post and then...nothing.

:lol :lol

 

[freethought]

No offence but I thought you were going somewhere with this post and then...nothing.

Heh, that's funny because I thought he was just rambling for a bit but then hit upon a profound truth in his final sentence.

 

[KTallguy]

Crying Wolf on Big Boss mode ugh jesus h. christ.

 

[ezekial45]

Has there been any info on a substance/subsistence version of MGS4? Have they confirmed or denied anything?

 

[Dabookerman]

They have said since the beginning that they are not making a Sub whatever version of the game.

 

[ezekial45]

They have said since the beginning that they are not making a Sub whatever version of the game.

Ugh, this game could've used something like that.

 

[Oni Jazar]

It would make a lot of sense to re-release MGS4. The game sold crazy numbers and Konami could use more money

 

[Always-honest]

I've played the game twice but I could see myself playing it again for trophies

hell yeah.

 

[Dabookerman]

It would make a lot of sense to re-release MGS4. The game sold crazy numbers and Konami could use more money

I would happily suck a man's testes for some more MGS.

Not a woman's testes.

 

[Bearillusion]

Crying Wolf on Big Boss mode ugh jesus h. christ.

Hide under the truck and she'll never get you.

 

[iamcool388]

I would happily suck a man's testes for some more MGS.

Not a woman's testes.

If that doesnt qualify for a tag... :lol

 

[asa]

Started playing yesterday, game of the forever so far.. :O :O :O

 

[nelsonroyale]

okay, this game is goddamn awesome...but what the hell at the

Spoiler

otacon and naomi romance....!?! hahaha, at first her and snake were a little tender and then this pops up... I suppose they are both scientists (and I am also studying the sciences), but honestly, it seems a little far fetched and cliched... Meryl has turned a little pear shaped too... Snake really holds the story together though, badass character

 

[-COOLIO-]

yay i got my statue:

 

[Dabookerman]

OK, Fuck you ok, FUCK YOU

 

[Callibretto]

http://pspupdates.qj.net/Kojima-s-top-picks-15-movies-that-influenced-Metal-Gear-Solid-series/pg/49/aid/128182

has these been posted yet?

15 movies that influence mgs series:
* The Guns of Navarone
* The Great Escape
* Goldfinger
* 2001: A Space Odyssey
* Planet of the Apes
* The Deer Hunter
* Dawn of the Dead
* Full Metal Jacket
* Die Hard
* Heat
* Predator
* Black Hawk Down
* Children of Men
* The Bourne Identity
* Casino Royale

 

[TrAcEr_x90]

trophies??

 

[Dabookerman]

http://pspupdates.qj.net/Kojima-s-top-picks-15-movies-that-influenced-Metal-Gear-Solid-series/pg/49/aid/128182

has these been posted yet?

15 movies that influence mgs series:
* The Guns of Navarone
* The Great Escape
* Goldfinger
* 2001: A Space Odyssey
* Planet of the Apes
* The Deer Hunter
* Dawn of the Dead
* Full Metal Jacket
* Die Hard
* Heat
* Predator
* Black Hawk Down
* Children of Men
* The Bourne Identity
* Casino Royale

King Kong?
Escape from New York??

 

[freethought]

King Kong?
Escape from New York??

The Rex vs Ray part was pure Godzilla too. But yeah, no Escape from New York? Highly suspect.

 

[Philanthropist]

15 movies that influence mgs series:
* The Guns of Navarone
* The Great Escape
* Goldfinger
* 2001: A Space Odyssey
* Planet of the Apes
* The Deer Hunter
* Dawn of the Dead
* Full Metal Jacket
* Die Hard
* Heat
* Predator
* Black Hawk Down
* Children of Men
* The Bourne Identity
* Casino Royale

Zardoz is missing too. Some of those recent ones are probably bad guesses.

 

[Callibretto]

Zardoz is missing too. Some of those recent ones are probably bad guesses.

apparently these are straight from Kojima himself. don't know why some of the obvious movie reference is missing like escape from new york is absent though. it's the top 15 movie, so not like these is all the movie that influence mgs. but I kinda expect snakes on a plane to be higher on the list.

 

[beef3483]

So I just finished this game a couple weeks ago and wanted to chime in with my thoughts on the game.

To the point, I was extremely dissappointed. This is easily my least favorite of the four. As with MGS2, it seemed that the ridiculous story could not get out of the gameplays way. What really annoyed me with this story was how each ridiculous twist was rationalized with some half-baked sci-fi mumbo jumbo. With a good twist, the viewer needs to be set up so that it fits retroactively. Kojima apparently doesn't know this. Which basically means that you can never rely on anybody to stay dead or any plot development to have permanence, which then takes all emotional meaning from them.

As for the gameplay, I didn't like how there is such a great arsenal of weapons available to us from the get-go. In MGS1, you often needed to get a new weapon or device in order to proceed further. This made each weapon/device unique and important. In MGS4, they just throw weapons at you like crazy and none of them are absolutely vital to your progression (besides that nanomachine supressor). Also, after my first play through, I have tried to play while skipping the cutscenes and I'm amazed at how little gameplay I have found.

To me, MGS4 perfectly embodies the wrong direction in which videogames should go.

 

[ShinoguTakeruKoeru]

To me, MGS4 perfectly embodies the wrong direction in which videogames should go.

So... you want games to be more like MGS4. Okay.

As for my thoughts on the game, some things were all right, most things weren't, towards the end things could have been more epic, but I liked what I played of it. A dedicated adherence to its legacy hurt the game, is what I think Jeremy Parish said in his review, and that's kinda true.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

As for my thoughts on the game, some things were all right, most things weren't, towards the end things could have been more epic, but I liked what I played of it. A dedicated adherence to its legacy hurt the game, is what I think Jeremy Parish said in his review, and that's kinda true.

That's like saying Braveheart would have been a better movie if it was more epic.
Are you being serious?

 

[ShinoguTakeruKoeru]

That's like saying Braveheart would have been a better movie if it was more epic.
Are you being serious?

I don't know, I didn't really mind- no I kinda did,

Spoiler

fighting Ocelot on the top of Outer Haven in a bout of fisticuffs

. In retrospect, if the game itself acknowledged its own scope of unrealistic elements with, say, a 9-part final boss confrontation with Ocelot, Liquid, REX, Ocelot again, RAY, Liquid again and so on, it wouldn't be the same game but instead a fan-wank version.

Reminder that this week's the next Integral Podcast.

 

[Raist]

Am.... Am I the only one who can't unsee it ?

 

[Nemo]

So... you want games to be more like MGS4. Okay.

Nothing wrong with upping the replayability in a game.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Am.... Am I the only one who can't unsee it ?

???

 

[Kaako]

Holy shit @ the statue. I want one too mayng.
That's hardcore.

 

[DMeisterJ]

Am.... Am I the only one who can't unsee it ?

What is seen!

Spoiler

neither can I

So what's wrong with MGS: PO and the Database? I played PO like six times, and the database was very helpful in fleshing the story out. Can someone bring me up to speed?