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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie

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The part Where the
missiles come flying out over the top of Arsenal Gear
is one of my favorite cut scenes ever.
Just the way the music stops, and then once the missiles are in the air
the bass hits with the theme song. It sounds sooo good with a sound system. It gets me every time.
 

Catalix

And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
I see the moratorium on spoilers has expired...

jsnepo said:
Where did you guys get your information about the original ending of MGS4?
Kojima Speaks, TGS '07
Kojima said:
"One of my ideas [for MGS4's ending] was that, since Snake and Otacon are breaking the law in order to fulfill their justice, I was thinking of having them turn themselves in, and for the sake of justice, they'd get convicted and executed by the law," he explained. "But all of my staff went against the idea, so I decided not to go with that."
 

Bit-Bit

Member
Sylarkiller said:
In all honestly, I wasn't there Day 1 because I didn't have a PS3, but the day I got a PS3 I bought MGS4 with it.
The first Metal Gear Solid games was, until recently, my number 1 game off all time.
When I purchased a PS2, it was the day Z.O.E. was released with the MGS2 demo and I played that to death, and I had MGS2 pre-ordered for the longest time and played that to death.

But I found that the game did not have the magic the previous games had, like I said flashes of genius.
Laughing Octopus fight was amazing and really really well done.
Snake running through the streets during those battles was good fun, tracking the footsteps was a bit tedious but it was new for the series so I went with it.
The return to Shadow Moses again was just amazing, Snake hearing the voices from the first game was spooky and there was a tinge of sadness to it all.

As for Snake's death, it should have been before the video from Naomi. His death should have been right after he uploaded the virus, but I know people will disagree so its just my opinion. Here is how I would have finished the game (and I know people will object):
Snake is crawling down the corridor, the microwaves pushing him to his knees, death is near, he coughs a few times bringing up blood, he enters the room holding the AI and crawls towards the console. Suddenly we cut to Liquid running down towards the AI room, he punches the code to enter the corridor and the microwaves shut off. He starts heading down the corridor.
Snake starts to upload the virus, he turns to see Liquid still hurtling down the corridor towards him, Snake takes out a cigarette and lights it and then as the virus is uploaded, the systems are under Otacons control and we see Otacon start up the microwaves and lock the corridor. Liquid sees whats happening to late and Snake just points at him, smiles and says "bang" and the doors close.
Snake dies at this point.

Again my opinion.

Your ending completely robbed Ocelot.
 

Catalix

And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Bit-Bit said:
Your ending completely robbed Ocelot.
My favorite character. That ending blows.

Also:
xvfhw.jpg
 
Catalix said:
I see the moratorium on spoilers has expired...


Kojima Speaks, TGS '07

Kojima said:
I"One of my ideas [for MGS4's ending] was that, since Snake and Otacon are breaking the law in order to fulfill their justice, I was thinking of having them turn themselves in, and for the sake of justice, they'd get convicted and executed by the law," he explained. "But all of my staff went against the idea, so I decided not to go with that."

Now this is the only way I think it would be fitting for Snake to die. Not the "pulling the trigger" crap people seem to keep advocating.
 
Sylarkiller said:
It felt tacked on because in my opinion the game should have ended after the slow crawl, that felt the climax of a movie to me.

For example in The Rock, Nicholas Cage destroys the last chip and crawls out and sets off the green smoke, that was the climax of that movie, they see the green smoke and the jet accidentaly releases the rocket. Everything about that was epic.

And Snake crawling and uploading the virus, maybe Liquid running to stop him and too late Snake uploads the virus. Something like that should have been the way it went.

Instead we see Snake near death and Liquid "magically" able to get Snake into a position to fight him, so of course we have the fight. Which I have no problem with HOW it was done, I enjoyed the fight but I felt it was unnecessary, they could have tied up the Liquid angle any number of other ways.

And I would argue about all MGS games finishing in a fist fight, the second game ended in a sword battle but that just semantics.

My entire sentiment of this game was of just dissapointment, it felt like it ran out of steam and was an excuse to tie up a lot of loose ends so they padded out the game as much as possible. There was flashes of brilliance but in the end most of it was wasted.

If Liquid had chased Snake down the corridor they'd both be fucked. It's funny that you have such a problem with Snake being near death, but both of them would have been fine?

Personally I love the way it played out. Liquid's plan was in ruins, there was a lot of confusion and personnel were panicked and milling about. Liquid takes advantage of the situation to kidnap Snake and finally get his revenge, on his terms. As a narrative convention it's practically as old as cinema itself, the last ditch attempt by the villain to kill the hero, even though his plan has already been foiled.

As far as Snake being near-death; I could argue that he had time to recover between Naomi's long-ass monologue, however long he was passed out and Liquid pumping him full of Naomi's magic serum. Instead, I'll just fall back on the cinematic conventions Kojima has been drawing from for the entire length of the series. The hero always gets his arse kicked before coming back stronger than ever, usually being driven by anger or his desire for revenge or whatever. In fact, didn't something very similar happen in Metal Gear Solid?

But all of that aside, including the very pertinent fact that the climax was drawing from long established Hollywood conventions, I still don't get how ypu can call it tacked on. To me that suggests from a narrative perspective it was totally unnecessary and it was added late in the game. But it's obvious that it was meant to go down like this from the very beginning. If MGS4 didn't end with an epic confrontation between Liquid and Solid then I don't think it's much of a stretch to say the backlash would have been far stronger. I can't think of a single way of satisfactorily ending that game without a fight between the two of them.
 

rvy

Banned
sechsterangriff said:
Now this is the only way I think it would be fitting for Snake to die. Not the "pulling the trigger" crap people seem to keep advocating.
Why not? Either one is fine, but the fact that he didn't shoot himself makes Snake look like a coward.
 

luka

Loves Robotech S1
Shikashi said:
Why not? Either one is fine, but the fact that he didn't shoot himself makes Snake look like a coward.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't
Big Boss shoot the gun out of Snake's hand?
 

rvy

Banned
luka said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't
Big Boss shoot the gun out of Snake's hand?
I keep reading people say this, but I was very confused during the whole scene. I think I remember seeing Snake coward out of it before anything else happened.
 
Snake definitely pulled out last second. At the start of the BB ending they focus on the gun that shows it was just fired. And when BB confronts him you see snake quickly stick the magazine back in to reload the gun. I remember David Hayter saying he didn't like the ending either because it made snake look like a coward.

I didn't agree with that [Snake flinching at pulling the trigger on himself] at all, and I begged them to change it, but I think it's still in the final game... I didn't buy it at all. I think it's weak for Snake to be killing other people and then not be able to kill himself when it's time. If he knows it's time, then it's time.

I personally don't think snake was being a coward, but hayter makes a good point.
 
IMO this is what should've happened.
During the 6th act, snake should have fought Liquid before he reached the microwave room.
Liquid's death should have been similar to sniper wolf's death with him explaining his intentions as he dies. As a final farewell to snake, liquid would give snake a device or card that would allow him to deliver or transfer the foxalive virus into outer heaven. Snake should then die in the server room after or while naomi message plays.
 

S1lent

Member
Catalix said:
"One of my ideas [for MGS4's ending] was that, since Snake and Otacon are breaking the law in order to fulfill their justice, I was thinking of having them turn themselves in, and for the sake of justice, they'd get convicted and executed by the law," he explained. "But all of my staff went against the idea, so I decided not to go with that."

Learn to read, people. It was never the "original ending." And his staff was right, IMO.
 

Doc Evils

Member
Who wants this poster? I'm getting a Killzone 2 one done today so I don't need this, it's a bit bunged up, but it's not bad for free no? ;)

2cpf3oh.jpg


2coq2pf.jpg


2cymofr.jpg


Goes to the person I feel like giving it to.
 
I've had this game for a while, but I keep putting it off because I'm convinced that as soon as I beat it, it will get patched for trophies.

Stupid, I know.
 

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
drmcclin said:
I've had this game for a while, but I keep putting it off because I'm convinced that as soon as I beat it, it will get patched for trophies.

Stupid, I know.
You'll never finish it then, because it aint getting trophies.:lol
 

Rhino

Member
Doc Evils said:
Who wants this poster? I'm getting a Killzone 2 one done today so I don't need this, it's a bit bunged up, but it's not bad for free no? ;)

*Poster of awesome*

Goes to the person I feel like giving it to.

*Raises hand*

ME! Come on my avatar demands that poster.

I say we have a contest and the person who can do the best impersonation of Liquid saying "BROTHER!" wins the poster.
 

rvy

Banned
U K Narayan said:
The ending itself is shitty fanfic. Pretty much running an ouroboros here.
I really don't want to express my hatred for the game, I know I'm going to be curb stomped.
 
Lafiel said:
You'll never finish it then, because it aint getting trophies.:lol

I keep putting off a second playthrough just in case... You'd think they wouldn't have a hard time doing it -- the game sort of has internal trophies as it is... it'd just be tracking them.. :(
 

rvy

Banned
corrosivefrost said:
I keep putting off a second playthrough just in case... You'd think they wouldn't have a hard time doing it -- the game sort of has internal trophies as it is... it'd just be tracking them.. :(
What's annoying is that Kojima Productions won't either confirm nor deny it. It's like they're trolling us and giving us hope at the same time.

Or maybe Trophies are just considered useless if they have a ***tence edition coming out.
 

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
If there were going to be trophies, they would have been released a long time ago. Unless there is a Substance/Subsidence release of MGS4 (unlikely), there won't be any trophies for this game.
 

rvy

Banned
Snuggler said:
If there were going to be trophies, they would have been released a long time ago. Unless there is a Substance/Subsidence release of MGS4 (unlikely), there won't be any trophies for this game.
Why won't they just come out and say it though? Every time Trophies are mentioned it's either "I can't comment on that." or "Trophies are coming." except nobody knows when...
 

ProudClod

Non-existent Member
Shikashi said:
Why won't they just come out and say it though? Every time Trophies are mentioned it's either "I can't comment on that." or "Trophies are coming." except nobody knows when...

*sigh*

Pretty much the reason I haven't done a fourth replay. I stopped half way through my big boss emblem run because I couldn't be bothered. Trophies will definitely motivate me :)
 

rainer516

That crazy Japanese Moon Language
You know what? I used to really really dislike act 3, but I've been replaying it a lot lately and trying new and wackier stuff. Playing it like a regular level with the normal camo, playing it with trenchcoat + beauty mask, so on and so forth. It's about to trump act 2 as my favourite to play. Oh and of course this is all on Boss difficulty.
 

Blader

Member
Shikashi said:
I keep reading people say this, but I was very confused during the whole scene. I think I remember seeing Snake coward out of it before anything else happened.

I always figured Snake pulled the gun out at the last second, and it went off when it hit the ground or something.
 

rvy

Banned
Blader5489 said:
I always figured Snake pulled the gun out at the last second, and it went off when it hit the ground or something.
Exactly, I always thought that something like that happened too.
 
Doc Evils said:
Who wants this poster? I'm getting a Killzone 2 one done today so I don't need this, it's a bit bunged up, but it's not bad for free no? ;)

http://i28.tinypic.com/2cpf3oh.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i29.tinypic.com/2coq2pf.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i32.tinypic.com/2cymofr.jpg[IMG]

Goes to the person I feel like giving it to.[/QUOTE]

What I wanna know is where the fuck you got that high-res poster or a high-res pic of that poster cause I fucking need it!!!
 

rvy

Banned
mgsaeu2.jpg


This reminds me of how much better this part would have been if Snake was fighting alone and it was just PMC soldiers, not FROGS.

Also, did anyone else feel that Shadow Moses could have been amazing if there were PMC soldiers there and not Gekkou and stuff? That really spoiled it for me.
 
rainer516 said:
You know what? I used to really really dislike act 3, but I've been replaying it a lot lately and trying new and wackier stuff. Playing it like a regular level with the normal camo, playing it with trenchcoat + beauty mask, so on and so forth. It's about to trump act 2 as my favourite to play. Oh and of course this is all on Boss difficulty.

I can't imagine anything making Act 3 enjoyable.
 

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
Shikashi said:
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7391/mgsaeu2.jpg[IMG]

This reminds me of how much better this part would have been if Snake was fighting alone and it was just PMC soldiers, not FROGS.

Also, did anyone else feel that Shadow Moses could have been amazing if there were PMC soldiers there and not Gekkou and stuff? That really spoiled it for me.[/QUOTE]
I think they wanted to go for that feeling where you were in awe the whole time and that would've quickly finished if it got busy and you had to look out for what you do.

But some more action would've been my preference too.
 

rvy

Banned
It's like a wasted opportunity. I loved Shadow Moses, the level, but I completely hated everything that I did in it. A PMC, with winter gear, patrolling the area would have been ridiculously awesome.
 
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