So basically you're of the position that MGS is a standalone game, and should have never gotten any story sequels, ever, since you seem to deem such little importance in minor characters like Nastasha and character backgrounds. By that logic, we could have had the most shallow characters and story development, with an assortment of stereotypical cultural rainbow of a cast, as long as they all stuck with their roles and had some mildly entertaining dialogue, and you would have been ok with that. Alright.jsnepo said:
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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
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So you like culturally stereotypical characteristics that validate your narrow view of the breadth of people that someone like Mei Ling represents, just to justify your desire for what you percieve as a charismatic asset to what defines her as a Chinese-American. Ok.jsnepo said:
SolidusDave
Member
my two main critic points of TS:
- Gameplay: 1:1 Levels, item-positioning, Enemies etc. etc. from MGS1 ... combined with the movement/gameplay possibilities of MGS2 or items like the tranquilizer gun.
-> pretty much ruins the complete (sneaking) gameplay (still a fun game obviously, but... no, just, no). A full DS1/2 button-layout on a gc pad was also awkward imo.
- the over the top cutscenes. I don't care if Kojima approved them, I just can't stand Snake jumping back and throwing a grenade (!) at some steel girder flying towards him because of an explosion. The grenade explodes on impact and saves Snake, yay.
All in in slowmotion and what would be like 0,3 seconds in real time.
I just think the "normal" MGS games have over the top cutscenes, but Kojima somehow nails it in them, so it still is mostly believable inside the MGS-Universe (plus Snake is not a Cyborg Ninja and why he has not any of these cool moves in TS gameplay anyway, i.e. the Ninja-fight?).
another example:
Raiden breakdancing some of the mechs around in MGS4 is not physically possible in the real word, but besides him being a cyborg, it just LOOKs believable (and therefor "cool"). Kinda like Hollywood-movieaction, most of the stunts/moves would i.e. kill the hero in reality (like because of impact-force etc.), but you don't mind that during the movie because when you not think about the physics, you may just suspect it to be possible in reality under the movie-circumstances. (except when the movie does the same "mistakes" like TS did).
I have to say though, that it is a I-played-the-"real"-game thing. You have a different view about it, because you notice these attached cutscenes or changed gameplay-mechanics and automatically rate them as stupid.
I think this is similar to opinions about Hollywood remakes like the The Ring.
For me, TS is a failure and not what I would like to see as a remake or DC of a game. But that's not automatically true for someone who starts with TS instead of MGS1. If you can get over the graphic-difference (btw. , that was not a good effort, the earlier released MGS2 on PS2 looked WAY better), I would still suggest playing the PS1-Version.
btw:
as I'm new here, I give you something quick to put me in a category
I played MGS1, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4 on their release dates
best story&characters:
- MGS2
best gameplay-mechanics:
- MGS3
best handling&variety:
- MGS4
best story-development:
- MGS1 (is just builds up and up, you have a nice climatic ending part etc.)
and I like all four ^^
- Gameplay: 1:1 Levels, item-positioning, Enemies etc. etc. from MGS1 ... combined with the movement/gameplay possibilities of MGS2 or items like the tranquilizer gun.
-> pretty much ruins the complete (sneaking) gameplay (still a fun game obviously, but... no, just, no). A full DS1/2 button-layout on a gc pad was also awkward imo.
- the over the top cutscenes. I don't care if Kojima approved them, I just can't stand Snake jumping back and throwing a grenade (!) at some steel girder flying towards him because of an explosion. The grenade explodes on impact and saves Snake, yay.
All in in slowmotion and what would be like 0,3 seconds in real time.
I just think the "normal" MGS games have over the top cutscenes, but Kojima somehow nails it in them, so it still is mostly believable inside the MGS-Universe (plus Snake is not a Cyborg Ninja and why he has not any of these cool moves in TS gameplay anyway, i.e. the Ninja-fight?).
another example:
Raiden breakdancing some of the mechs around in MGS4 is not physically possible in the real word, but besides him being a cyborg, it just LOOKs believable (and therefor "cool"). Kinda like Hollywood-movieaction, most of the stunts/moves would i.e. kill the hero in reality (like because of impact-force etc.), but you don't mind that during the movie because when you not think about the physics, you may just suspect it to be possible in reality under the movie-circumstances. (except when the movie does the same "mistakes" like TS did).
I have to say though, that it is a I-played-the-"real"-game thing. You have a different view about it, because you notice these attached cutscenes or changed gameplay-mechanics and automatically rate them as stupid.
I think this is similar to opinions about Hollywood remakes like the The Ring.
For me, TS is a failure and not what I would like to see as a remake or DC of a game. But that's not automatically true for someone who starts with TS instead of MGS1. If you can get over the graphic-difference (btw. , that was not a good effort, the earlier released MGS2 on PS2 looked WAY better), I would still suggest playing the PS1-Version.
btw:
as I'm new here, I give you something quick to put me in a category
I played MGS1, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4 on their release dates
best story&characters:
- MGS2
best gameplay-mechanics:
- MGS3
best handling&variety:
- MGS4
best story-development:
- MGS1 (is just builds up and up, you have a nice climatic ending part etc.)
and I like all four ^^
Nope. I just didn't pay too much attention and glory to Mei Ling saying she was born and raised in America. I mean I'd rather Kojima just change or forget that line instead to keep her accent which I prefer. Same thing can be applied with Liquid Ocelot saying that Big Boss was already in his late 50s when the clones were created... then MGS3 happened.
By the way, which is canon now? The digital graphic novel of MGS2 or MGS2 itself? Because as far as I know, in the graphic novel, it is Snake that rescued Emma. Am I correct?
By the way, which is canon now? The digital graphic novel of MGS2 or MGS2 itself? Because as far as I know, in the graphic novel, it is Snake that rescued Emma. Am I correct?
No, the difference here is you're retconning something that was a technical fluke in how Kim Mai Guest was directed during he original recording sessions, in comparison to actual plot retconning that occured starting with MGS3. You seem to forget that MGS1 wasn't voiced only in English, unlike the RE series. Its a pipedream that never was, nor will be.jsnepo said:
Are you kidding me? Her original recording sounds terrible. It doesn't hold a candle to the TTS recording. You're listening with a rose-tinted sound-aid.TheSeks said:
Now, Snake, on the other hand, is a different story. In ways, Snake's character in the original VS TTS is fundamentally different in both voice and behavior/development. Mei Ling isn't so fortunate as to have as much space to play in as Snake does.
Dwight Schrute
Member
I have a regret for mgs4...
In mgs 1, I loved how part of the story was told by many codec calls and codec characters... But in mgs 4 the codec is sooooo empty....
(And I prefered old-school codec )
In mgs 1, I loved how part of the story was told by many codec calls and codec characters... But in mgs 4 the codec is sooooo empty....
(And I prefered old-school codec )
JonStark: Totally. MGS4's sheer lack of codec calls was a major disappointment. It was one of the aspects of the MGS games that I loved the most, and to find that it was practically neutered to the state it was left in was disappointing
You also seem to not remember the volume of codec calls there were in MGS3, either. It wasn't just MGS2. People seem to forget that.
Did you remotely read what I wrote? Did you? Look harder. If Kojima was fluent in English, or was a western developer, your case would be arguable, but seeing as how he is neither, you're asking for something that would have never happened in anyone's smallest of expectations.jsnepo said:
You also seem to not remember the volume of codec calls there were in MGS3, either. It wasn't just MGS2. People seem to forget that.
Its not a question of whether it'd be so good or bad. Its an issue of "why." There is no real reason for her to retain her crappy accent, mostly considering that Kojima probably doesn't really care about the fact that there was a flaw that people actually latched on to. Doesn't really seem to be the man's style, and even if he were aware, it'd only be of his domestic audience, where in which there was no accent flaw, at least none worth noting.jsnepo said:
Its ultimately a non-issue that was dealt with, and there's nothing you can do about it.
The most Kojima has expressed his appreciation of the English cast is Hayter's presence as a norm, along with Quinton Flynn's performance as Raiden over his Japanese counterpart.
MurkyZebra2417
Member
Hm thanks for the feedback. I think I will play the "original" MGS1 sometime in the future (Maybe after completing MGS4). But I think TTS isn't that bad if you don't know the original. I just wanted to start with MGS2 anyways, but I was forced to play them in order
Tryckser said:Hm thanks for the feedback. I think I will play the "original" MGS1 sometime in the future (Maybe after completing MGS4). But I think TTS isn't that bad if you don't know the original. I just wanted to start with MGS2 anyways, but I was forced to play them in order
Yup. Twin Snakes isn't that bad if it's your first time in the series.
Dwight Schrute
Member
SolidusDave said:
Bolded the biaised part :lol
MGS2 :
VS
TS :
Okay, TS had framerate issues.
But IMO
MGS2<TS<MGS3 is more objective.
SolidusDave
Member
JonStark said:
well, you are right if you want to compare the surroundings (both have bad/"no" textures anyway), but just look at the character models in each game, i.e. Solid Snake.
and not only the model itself, facial animations etc. are better in MGS2.
This may mostly show in the (realtime) cutscenes of course, but for me it was a very big difference in the overall visual quality of these games (I would argue that stuff like new effects/shadows etc, rain/water-effects, object-destructibility, tons of Rays, bigger backgrounds, more soldiers/characters and so on are a plus for the visual appeal of MGS2, too. But some of that is due to it being different games obviously, can't just include a second Rex in the remake ^^)
TTS has lower polygon character models than MGS 2 and framerate issues, it's not an opinion that it looks worse than MGS 2, it's a fact.
Anyway, I downloaded the GENE + MEME + SCENE pack yesterday, it's so hard to get into a Survival match. I tried to join 10 different teams and was kicked out 10 times, why are people such assholes and ranking whores? I had to create my own team to play the damn thing. Pretty cool mode none the less, new characters are nice too.
Is there a PAL MGO GAF clan? I'd like to play against/with some of you guys.
Anyway, I downloaded the GENE + MEME + SCENE pack yesterday, it's so hard to get into a Survival match. I tried to join 10 different teams and was kicked out 10 times, why are people such assholes and ranking whores? I had to create my own team to play the damn thing. Pretty cool mode none the less, new characters are nice too.
Is there a PAL MGO GAF clan? I'd like to play against/with some of you guys.
Dwight Schrute
Member
Shikashi said:
Seems that GAF's MGO clans are dead. (Discussed here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311991&page=125 ).
I still play MGO regularly, if you see me online, add me as a friend (JonStark).
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
The FUCK. The thread was bumped so a few of you can argue about the ending/story/which act sucks? REALLY?
Anyway. For those who dislike the ending, try to think about it with one of my points of view. Maybe Snake
It may not make the most sense, but it's one way to think of it.
Anyway. For those who dislike the ending, try to think about it with one of my points of view. Maybe Snake
DID pull the trigger and seeing BB was the tell tale sign that he is indeed "on the other side" and they were waiting for Zero. So BB IS dead and Snake is now dead as well
It may not make the most sense, but it's one way to think of it.
JonStark said:
Twin Snakes has serious frame rate issues considering what little is ever actually going on onscreen. Sons of Liberty in comparison is silk smooth at all times. Heck, even when there's over three dozen characters on screen, you may experience a little tearing but that's it.
I also want to say that Metal Gear Solid 2's interiors are generally more detailed. Think back to the tanker, with all the reflective surfaces and such.
Dwight Schrute
Member
SCReuter said:
I agree with some points argued here. I still think that progressive scan and better antialiasing made the experience smoother to me, but I didn't intend to make a debate about the two games
It was just my opinion about what I remember (maybe I would be disapointed if replaying TS
)Does anyone know if there is any site out there that has shitloads of Shinkawas art for Metal Gear Solid 4? Not any of the ones of Snake infront of GEKKOS and stuff, but more "proper" like the cover to US Special Edition and so on.
Really need to find something like that. <_<
Really need to find something like that. <_<
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Darkpen said:
I find it interesting that you're questioning his ability to construct a sentence properly, all the while you're typing in fragments. Hell, you even started a sentence with, "but".
Honestly, I don't have a problem with what either of you are saying, but the fact that you attacked a fellow forum goer about grammar is just amazing.
LET THE INTERNET BE PRAISED!
mario ate my burger
Banned
Finally got the game couple of days ago
My aunt surprised me with it, pretty awesome.
I need help though.
My aunt surprised me with it, pretty awesome.
I need help though.
I'm stuck on the boss Ocelot. It's the level right after Bolshaya Past Base. Just can't kill him
mario ate my burger said:Finally got the game couple of days ago
My aunt surprised me with it, pretty awesome.
I need help though.
I'm stuck on the boss Ocelot. It's the level right after Bolshaya Past Base. Just can't kill him
Try shooting the hornet nests on the trees when he's hiding behind cover (it draws him out), and keep moving. Staying in one spot when he's firing off bullets is deadly to you as he almost always hits still targets.
You'll get used to it. I've heard people have trouble with that first boss, and then pick up the game fine after that - just keep it at it!
Philanthropist
Banned
JonStark said:
Is that the worst MGS2 screenshot you could find? I mean, it has to be a very early one considering Snake isn't seen in that section at all, or maybe in the additional chapters in Substance (given the on-screen indicators). Also, the characters are missing their shadows, which are prominent in the final game.
Anyway, not only the character design is by all means less inspired and detailed in TS, but from what I've seen of it, no section looks and feels like MGS2 areas at all, mostly taking into account the Metal Gears animations and object physics in some places like the first encounter with Fortune. And I don't remember about the cutscenes, but in MGS2 there were very neat depth of field effects and the Tanker intro probably has nicer effects than anything in TS.
autobzooty
Member
I feel like I'm the only person who thinks that MGS2 is ugly from an art standpoint. Sure the tech is good, but it's very unpleasant to look at, imo. Twin Snakes looks a little better, but that's mostly because Shadow Moses is cooler than The Big Shell.
Everything in MGS2 just looks too "baby-smooth." raiden's face looks like it was carved out of butter and the general color scheme of that game makes me feel kinda sick.
is anyone with me on this?
Everything in MGS2 just looks too "baby-smooth." raiden's face looks like it was carved out of butter and the general color scheme of that game makes me feel kinda sick.
is anyone with me on this?
Dabookerman
Member
autobzooty said:
No
autobzooty
Member
BigBoss said:Are you just completely skipping the Tanker?
I did like the Tanker, especially the rainy outdoor bits, but it's a pretty short segment and hardly a good sample for what the game generally looks like.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
autobzooty said:
So you're also saying that you think the Big Shell at sunset is also bad art/tech? Give me a break. Truly ahead of it's time back then and still looks fantastic to this day.
infinityBCRT
Member
Sony already developed an Emotion Engine emulator which is used in PS3's which have the GS chip but not EE. There are some slowdowns in MGS3 when theres a lot of characters but otherwise it works okay.nickrempe said:
If you have a PS3 without PS2 backwards compatibility right now don't hold breath for an update which allows it. The GS has more bandwidth than whats in the PS3 so its pretty much impossible for the PS3 to emulate.
You can pick up a PS2 for $100 now I believe
autobzooty
Member
MoonsaultSlayer said:
not bad tech, just bad art. and gameplay.
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