Big Shell isn't that bad from both a technical and art standpoint. The wow factor just diminishes instantly after your first play through unlike the Tanker chapter which is still an amazing achievement even with today's standards. I loved the scene where Raiden and Emma were climbing down to get to the oil fence when I first saw it.
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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
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GeneralIroh
Member
TTS suffered the most from bad rigging. You could see how awkward the animations were and how weird the arms looked when they were bent.
Dabookerman
Member
autobzooty said:
Bad art?... Gameplay??
Art design by Yoji Shinkawa.
What you're essentially doing is insulting my mother.
freethought
Member
Wait, now Big Shell has bad gameplay too? How does anyone come to that conclusion. I still rate the warehouse and Shell 1 core as two of my favourite sections of any MGS game. Sure, they don't beat the opening of act five, but they're still damn good.
Subliminal
Member
autobzooty said:
I don't see how the Gameplay is bad. Every core mechanic from 1 is in 2 with more! And in my opinion there are more 'awesome' moments in 2, such as
the bombs rigged all over the shells, Watching Emma cross a tiny pipe, guarding her with your sniper, Fat Man having a bomb inside his coat! and more..
I don't see how you can dislike MGS2's art, Its Fantastic, and the Big Shell is a great setting..
How you had your console connected to your tv should generally be a nonissue, but if you find it to be such a notable detail, its important to note that TTS actually supported Progressive Scan, where neither MGS2 or 3 did. As far as other options go, S-Video is where its at.jsnepo said:
Tell me you can comprehend his sentence, as opposed to my fragments, and then we'll talk.FrostuTheNinja said:
akachan ningen
Member
When I saw this thread bumped yesterday I thought maybe a trophy patch was out. :lol
Instead, it's a bunch of people defending the obviously inferior Twin Snakes.
Instead, it's a bunch of people defending the obviously inferior Twin Snakes.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I prefer the look of MGS2 to MG3.
It holds up much better nowadays, in my opinion. Thanks almost entirely to the frame-rate, and my love of Big Shell.
It holds up much better nowadays, in my opinion. Thanks almost entirely to the frame-rate, and my love of Big Shell.
Bearillusion
Banned
I've completed MGS4 twice. Just thought I'd say that before I say this.
Went back and played up bit of Act 2 & 3 tonight and I just don't think MGS4 is a very good looking game. Has its moments but overall it's disappointing visually. To me.
Carry on.
Went back and played up bit of Act 2 & 3 tonight and I just don't think MGS4 is a very good looking game. Has its moments but overall it's disappointing visually. To me.
Carry on.
You keep asking "Is there a problem," when you're not even answering the question.jsnepo said:
jsnepo said:
jsnepo said:
Yes, I do have a problem: its your consistency, or lackthereof.jsnepo said:
What in the world is your stance? Do you find MGS2's aesthetics more appealing because you played it on PS2 via component? Do you find the extra fidelity that you got with playing it on PC to be visually appealing? If you played it on PC first, then what was the point of even pointing out how both systems are connected? Do you see where I'm going with this?
Darkpen said:
I finished MGS2 first on the PC which wasn't really that great for me because of slow downs and for that I ran it at a low resolution. When I played Twin Snakes, it was around the same time that I played the PS2 version of Substance so my comparison is between the two but if I'm going to compare the PC version of MGS2 which I finished first to Twin Snakes, I will still pick MGS2. It doesn't really matter to me if you disagree but you seem bothered by what I prefer. Just let it go. :lol
TacticalFox88
Banned
MGS4, while a great game, could've been so much better had Kojima not listened to his fans and stuck with his vision.
or rather, not listened to his fellow producersTacticalFox88 said:
But who knows, maybe that would have been an entirely different beast, and it would have turned out like MGS2.
We'll never really know to what extent as to how much influence there was on the game that wasn't just Kojima's own decisions. We already know that Hayter opposed the ending we got, and there was even a quote from Kojima saying that Payton didn't really influence the project a terrible amount, either, though that might have been a joking jab. We don't really know anything outside of what has already been said, so who knows, really.
Dwight Schrute
Member
Synless said:
:lol right
SolidusDave
Member
Synless said:
maybe from a aesthetic/preference standpoint?
I love MGS2 more because of the story, but MGS3 is by far the better looking game.
I recently popped MGS3S in my PS3, and it is one of these PS2 games that look actually way better upscaled in 1080p+AA by the PS3 via HDMI then in my old PS2 over RGB (and if my memory is not that bad, I would dare to say even better then on a CRT TV). When you activate the third person view (not really playable with that though ^^) and look around in the jungle, it is quite amazing (similar experience to when I finished GoW2 on my PS3, even the tearing was basically gone Oo ).
Sadly, MGS3(S) has not widescreen mode, that would be a killer.
btw. MGS3 did stuff, I still wish to be in many "nextgen" games, for example the grass moves when you go through it or even when bullets hit through it. Many next-gen games are basically empty/sterile maps with no player-interaction. An extreme example (but bad game comparison, sry) would be UT3 (most standard maps), it looks awesome but you can't do SHIT in it, nothing breaks, not even visible bullet holes. (and thats not even the start of how to achieve a believable/living world)
Act4-Nostalgia-aside, Act 2 in MGS4 is the best one IMO. Very big levels, multiple paths. Basically MGS3, but still with the fights of the two fractions like in Act 1 (which is cool when you move i.e. in the villa and the war is around you, but you don't get involved if you play stealthy).
It also had these little "outposts" in the middle of the "nature" like in MG3, I loved infiltrating those w/o alert in both games.
I even missed the half of the areas because I chose a quicker route in my first game, It was pretty mindblowing seeing i.e. the swamp/water area for the first time on my second MGS4 run
(good replay value though ^^)btw. I spend an hour in the first area in act 2 on my first playthrough on normal, trying to get the items, saving the prisoners unseen, but without killing/tranquilizing more then maybe 1 or 2 troops (like the executioners, saving the prisoner in last second). There are way easier ways to achieve this, but I wanted it to look like in a movie :lol
I often continue in MGS-games until I like it (and thats not even involving no kills-playthroughs etc. , I like slitting throats.. a LOT). That's why like the MGS games so much, you can play how you want (plus I can do rampages anytime when something is not working like I planned
I think that's the main reason why there are so many guns in MGS4 )Character models are mighty impressive, but, in the animation department, it's clearly lacking. The game looks exactly the same as MGS 3 did in motion. Only Gekkous animate well, mainly because their animation was created from scratch, they didn't re-use anything because there wasn't anything to re-use.Bearillusion said:
chrisisawesome
Member
SuperÑ said:
Interesting...I tried playing through msg3 right before mgs4 came out and just couldnt push myself to play it.
I've played through mgs4 twice and I have to say it is the best game I've ever played.
Maybe I'll give the other metal gear games another try.
infinityBCRT
Member
Actually it doesn't turn it into 1080p+AA but the upscaling does do wonders for MGS3. I started playing it again after my brother and I beat MGS4 (my brother hadn't played the other games) and he commented that the graphics of MGS3 are pretty close to MGS4 and surprisingly they did look close (outside of the aspect ratio)... and then one day I turned off the upscaling and smoothing and then I knew why they looked close. Without those options enabled MGS3 looks REALLY blocky.SolidusDave said:
infinityBCRT
Member
I don't know about that claim. At the very least they added worm crawling, turning on your back and the biggest thing of all, crouch walking (which is painfully missing from MGS3). Did they reuse Snakes other animations from MGS3? Maybe? But its not like the physics were totally off, AFAIK MGS4 had proper foot planting, I'm not sure what else you'd want from the animations.Shikashi said:
brandonh83
Banned
MGS4 easily has my favorite stealth moments out of the four. In fact I would say that because of the new gameplay mechanics, especially on the harder difficulties, that it completely trounces the previous three games when it comes to stealth. Just the way the levels are designed and how the enemies make their rounds, I'd say it's far more complex this time around if you play it right. You can run and gun, but that's just no... fun?
I think acts 3 and 4 on high difficulties are the shining moments in MGS stealth gameplay.
I think acts 3 and 4 on high difficulties are the shining moments in MGS stealth gameplay.
Thrakier said:
infinityBCRT said:
I don't dislike the animations per se, it's just that there's a bunch of little things that annoy me in them.* I understand that if they had very detailed animations the gameplay would suffer because you lacked control over Snake, but something in the same vein as Chaos Theory/Double Agent would not have hurt the gameplay.
*Snake gets jerky when I change the direction I'm walking/running to. It's for a brief moment, but it's like he turns 2 directions at the same time. It's very annoying.
I hate the new stealth crawling (worm, is it?) thing they came up with, it just looks ridiculous and defies the laws of physics whenever you change direction. It's like his laying in a puddle of water to change directions like that.
Just like the somersault, I never liked it and like it less now. It looks completely awesome when you do a side somersault though.
The other one that annoys me is Snake tapping his back in pain. It's nice they thought of it and all, but it's just very repetitive, unpleasant looking and whenever Snake performs it he drops any item/weapon his carrying. It's ridiculous to see him holding a M4 and then it just disappears out of nowhere for him to tap his back. This is true for other actions as well, but I have control over them, so I just unequip whatever I'm holding.
There's some nice touches here and there, like Snake using his arm to raise himself up when you change stances while moving, CQC and overall enemy soldier animation is top notch. It's just Snake that annoys me.
infinityBCRT
Member
brandonh83 said:
Act 3 and 4 have some great stealth moments but Acts 1 and 2 (which have more gameplay and less cutscenes than 3,4) are some of the worst stealth gaming out there.
Drebin's Store also removes some of the stealth element. You don't have to preserve your ammo.
SolidusDave
Member
infinityBCRT said:
You don't have to use your ammo either...
You can play any MGS and shoot/kill most of your way through it. Only on harder difficulties you better stay away from fighting a lot of enemies or getting alerts (when they transfer to the next area, so quick running through the areas does not safe you).
But If you want, you can play stealthy, which for me is very satisfying, specifically in act 1 and 2.
Sneaky_Gopher
Banned
This thread just keeps going in circles. I think we should just let it die.
Mikey Jr.
Member
Act 3 was alright but it could have been MUCH better.
They should have plopped you down into the city and said go from point A to point B.
How you get from A to B is up to you.
-No camo suit (just your trench coat)
-No weaponry (maybe some small stuff like Playboys and empty magazine clips)
On higher difficulties, there are more patrols, more patrolling cars, etc. THAT would have been awesome.
They should have plopped you down into the city and said go from point A to point B.
How you get from A to B is up to you.
-No camo suit (just your trench coat)
-No weaponry (maybe some small stuff like Playboys and empty magazine clips)
On higher difficulties, there are more patrols, more patrolling cars, etc. THAT would have been awesome.
Sneaky_Gopher
Banned
I agree. Not only would i say its my favorite game this generation, but its one of my all time favs. But it feels like exactly a year ago, the same conversations were being had. Comparing Acts, Fan Fic, Naomi's confusing plot thread, and discussing weather the ending sucked or not.jsnepo said:
brandonh83
Banned
Sneaky_Gopher said:
Just like how you don't have to buy ammo in Drebin's store, you don't have to post!
infinityBCRT
Member
I don't know about you but I felt encouraged to shoot it up in the first 2 Acts because it was easier to do that than use stealth. The whole point of Stealth in MGS1,2,3 was that it was unrealistic that one man could kill hundreds of people so he had to sneak his way through a complex undetected to complete is objectives. In MGS4 its almost the opposite.SolidusDave said:
I also disagree that you can shoot/kill most of your way through MGS1/2/3, In MGS you'd die after a few shots and in MGS2/3 you get raped by reinforcements. I've never been able to play those games that way and people I know who are more action oriented gamers were really frustrated with MGS1/2/3 because of that.
Hmmm.... I picked this game up after never playing a metal gear game (before you flame me for having a solid snake avatar: I just though it looked cool.) and I'm just really, really having trouble getting into it. Should I give it more time? I'm only about a half hour or two into it.
Philanthropist
Banned
ACE 1991 said:
Have you played previous MGS games?
Anyway, the first two acts can be approached differently, as you can either pretty much shoot your way through them or sneak through them. I also think they have the most boring / long cutscenes. Acts 3 to 5 are more about sneaking through.
Even if you include the initial install, that is a lie.deepbrown said:
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