untoldhero
Member
Does that mean I get extra hated because I have Limited Editions of 2 & 3. :lolLonestar said:You can add me to the "Be hated" clubthough I haven't found the actual game disk, I did finish watching said "Theater DVD" of the game.
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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
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MollyMillions
Neo Member
Yoboman said:
True, except EE and Stillman weren't important characters in the overall story who had ties to all the main characters that needed to be resolved/explained. Raiden, Naomi, Otacon, Vamp, Meryl, Campbell, EVA, Sunny, and yes, even Rosemary are much less extraneous than the incidental MGS2 characters.
Note that Kojima didn't give us extended backstory on minor characters like Sokolov in MGS3. I think he knows to stick to the characters he's already established for the most part. We might get backstory for the new Foxhound members, but I can deal with that. Other than that, he'll have his hands full with the legacy characters, so I doubt it'll have that "why do I give a shit about this character?" feeling of some of MGS2.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Yoboman
Member
I don't think it's necessary to give them all stories. It's one element that Kojima has always lacked compared to Hollywood and that's subtlety. The back-characters can have subtle stories, but they should always be in the background compared to the story of Old Snake and only tie in when it has specific relevance to his storyMollyMillions said:
MollyMillions
Neo Member
Klone.K said:
Oh, cool, I hadn't read that. Although really that only highlights the potential for drama between them. At the very least it's more compelling than "I know you're battling nuclear-armed terrorists but, like, I'm feeling insecure about our relationship, let's talk about how we first met."
That was totally autobiographical on Kojima's part, I'm convinced. I'm willing to bet he based the Rose/Jack codec conversations on nagging phonecalls from Mrs. Koji about why he has to spend yet another night sleeping at the KCEJ offices. :lol
brandonh83
Banned
revolverjgw
Member
Yoboman said:
reviews r dumb
Yoboman said:
That's true. But a lot of MGS fans play the series simply for its storyline and most of the thought and creative talent really went into the script on Kojima's part. The story is such an enormous, if not the largest aspect of the game that reviewers are compelled to focus on it. So far it seems that the storyline will be a hit or miss in many peoples eyes just like MGS2 was.
Choke on the Magic
Banned
MollyMillions said:
*crawls out of blackout* When it comes to Mrs. Koji, there's no place for Hideo.....Zing!
*crawls back into blackout*
MollyMillions
Neo Member
Yoboman said:
You're right, it's absolutely not necessary. MGS would make, honestly, a terrible film, because Kojima's storytelling is so bloated and not at all stream-lined. But he's not a frustrated film-maker, to my mind. He's a gaming auteur, and I think he sees MGS as an epic novel, or manga. The backstories and tertiary details aren't as distracting when you view his story-telling in those terms.
If you look at MGS from the standpoint of cinematic narrative, though, it is a mess.
Revolutionary
Member
Um, I know I'm super late, but where can I get the images for the Snake Eye + 'stache avatars so I can make one? I've been looking for a while but can't find anything. >.< Unless I overlooked it...
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
henhowc said:
I'm glad he mentioned Snatcher :lol :lol
Yoboman
Member
Which is part of what made MGS3 so strong in my opinion. It was a simple narrative, not bogged down with the distractions. And if there were other story elements to be had, they're relegated to codecs, not cutscenes. I was hoping MGS4 would continue down this path, but it seems to have stepped back towards MGS2 territory.MollyMillions said:
GauntletFan
Banned
henhowc said:
Disturbingly creepy overall
Is it just me that likes Kojima's bloated storylines and prefers it over streamlined Hollywood movies?
Whenever I watch a movie I always pick on and go over every little detail or character unexplained. I hate it when the story isn't thorough to the point of obsession. I suppose that's one of the appealing factors about Kojima for me. He's so obsessed with detail that he could turn a flyer into a 300 page novel.
Whenever I watch a movie I always pick on and go over every little detail or character unexplained. I hate it when the story isn't thorough to the point of obsession. I suppose that's one of the appealing factors about Kojima for me. He's so obsessed with detail that he could turn a flyer into a 300 page novel.
SolidSnakex
Member
MollyMillions
Neo Member
Yoboman said:
Maybe. And if so, I'll be disappointed. But without knowing whether or not these reviewers also found MGS3's story-telling compelling or self-indulgent, it's hard to know whether or not to take them seriously when it comes to evaluating the storyline.
In general, you have to take game journalist opinions on narrative with a grain of salt. they're not film critics. We all remember the "Oscar-caliber" storyline that GTA IV was supposed to have. I read game criticism for gameplay criticism, not story analysis.
GT has set up their own special launch page for MGS4 with a countdown to their inevitable video review:
http://www.gametrailers.com/mgs4launch.php
http://www.gametrailers.com/mgs4launch.php
brandonh83
Banned
I think MGS4's plot will be less "simplistic" than MGS3's, but I don't think it will be as confusing/convoluted as MGS2's. MGS2's plot is only really hard to understand because of the way it tries to explain who/what the Patriots are, and several things such as how many "versions" of the S3 Plan are explained near the end of the game :lol
MGS2 is easy to understand when you get the bigger picture on everything that is going on. But I think MGS4 will be easier to follow.
MGS2 is easy to understand when you get the bigger picture on everything that is going on. But I think MGS4 will be easier to follow.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
MollyMillions said:
That's simply because videogames are the perfect medium to meld all he wants from cinematics, storytelling, and gameplay, and load it to the brim with nuances and details you can expect from Kojima Productions. All what makes MGS work would be lost in translation in things like film or even books, since they are entrenched to their classic presentational perspectives, but videogames are so much more free form in how it can combine so many aspects of entertainment media into one package. It's not trying to tie down a narrative in 2 hours like a film, it's tying a narrative that is reflective on how long it takes the player to go through it all, with the fantastic variable of having the player control their approach to a situation and setting.
islewarrior
Banned
has anyone seen this yet on the konami site.
http://www.konami.jp/mgs4/us/top.html
looks like it has actual in game footage proceed at your own risk
at first i thought i was watching a real person (otacon)
http://www.konami.jp/mgs4/us/top.html
looks like it has actual in game footage proceed at your own risk
at first i thought i was watching a real person (otacon)
SolidSnakex
Member
jdnation said:
So I guess that confirms that we won't get US reviews until a day before MGS4's release.
MollyMillions
Neo Member
Klone.K said:
Well, it's not just mainstream Hollywood movies that are streamlined. Cinema itself is by its nature a detail-light mode of storytelling. It's a "show don't tell" medium.
Gaming, as I think Kojima understands, is a unique medium in that it can accommodate both the audiovisual aspects of film and the detail-oriented, multiple perspective, historical scope of literature.
Koji is definitely pretentious and self-indulgent in making this leap, but that's why he's one of a few singular voices in an otherwise generic industry.
EDIT: Thanks. Though damage is already done.
Isn't this a fucking spoiler EDIT: WHAT THE FUCK IT JUST KEEPS GOING CHANGE ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT............132131321
I rike it, but it's no substitute for movies. Like Homerman here said it's a totally different medium and Kojima has much more time in his disposal to tell a story. You could make movies last +4 hours but it wouldn't work very well. Games can be played for longer because you do something while you're at it.
"Deep" movies often require a lot from the viewer or they can feel very heavy.
Isn't this a fucking spoiler
EDIT: WHAT THE FUCK IT JUST KEEPS GOING CHANGE ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT............132131321I rike it, but it's no substitute for movies. Like Homerman here said it's a totally different medium and Kojima has much more time in his disposal to tell a story. You could make movies last +4 hours but it wouldn't work very well. Games can be played for longer because you do something while you're at it.
"Deep" movies often require a lot from the viewer or they can feel very heavy.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
That probably applies to people who are not huge MGS fans. A lot of MGS fans love the cutscenes, so for most of us those lengthy cutscenes make the game better.Costanza said:
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
They could have done it so that the codec conversation appears at the bottom of the screen and you can still carry on playing. The only problem is that its difficult to keep track of whats being said and still carry on playing.eso76 said:
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
I'd love that too. I thought MGS2's story was absolutely brilliant.Klone.K said:
EDIT: Isnt Ploids avatar a spoiler?
EDIT 2: He changed it now.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Oh please, it's from the KojiPro/Ryan Payton sanctioned theatrical trailer. Believe me you guys will be fine having seen a second of Ocelot laughing.
Hey, I found this over at the *banned site* forums. Someone saying he had a conversation with a reviewer whose finished the game posted some details. Nothing really new though.
Dunno if I can link to it?
Some interesting bits with semi-spoilers.
*Cutscenes make up around one half of the game and the pacing is un proportionate. There are points in the game where the gameplay outweighs the cinematics, however during the second half of the title the cutscenes become numerous and extremely long with little gameplay time meshed in between.
*There is plenty of codec conversations available for players to trigger, however the codec appears very rarely during the main story line.
*He felt under whelmed by the ending. The emotional impact was diluted from a bewildering, at times overly indulgent and lengthy exposition that divided Sons of Liberty players, and felt unsuitable as the emotional curtain call of Solid Snakes Saga.
*The gameplay is phenomenal. There is an incredible variety of missions that wouldn't feel out of place in even a GTA game. Gamers will be taken on a roller coaster ride of unpredictable scenarios that spin the entire MGS series on it's head and back.
*Gamers are aware of less than 10% of the game. There are incredible amounts of surprise characters, easter eggs and special features that easily drive the possible playtime into the months. Kojima has kept such an astounding amount of content secret that players will be blown away weeks after launch, still discovering new things.
*The game needs to be played multiple times to fully understand and appreciate the story line. There is a great deal of sub plots and layers of themes that are impossible to intake in a single playthrough.
*The script is enormous, possibly surpassing that of all three Metal Gear games combined. Every character has their story line and very few are left undeveloped. There are numerous characters that have not yet been announced to the public.
*The game is an overall masterpiece. He felt extremely satisfied with the entire product, though noted that the ending scenes may divide or fail to reach the expectations of some.
Dunno if I can link to it?
Some interesting bits with semi-spoilers.
*Otacon is a central character of MGS4. From the nerdy and often burdensome character he's been in previous chapters of SS's saga, he is now a grown and mature man and one of the true heroes of MGS4.
*Aside from Snake, Raiden's character will be central to some of the games most emotionally intensive scenes. His is a truly shocking tale that pulsates with highs and lows of pure energy, emotion, shock and disbelief.
*Aside from Snake, Raiden's character will be central to some of the games most emotionally intensive scenes. His is a truly shocking tale that pulsates with highs and lows of pure energy, emotion, shock and disbelief.
*Cutscenes make up around one half of the game and the pacing is un proportionate. There are points in the game where the gameplay outweighs the cinematics, however during the second half of the title the cutscenes become numerous and extremely long with little gameplay time meshed in between.
*There is plenty of codec conversations available for players to trigger, however the codec appears very rarely during the main story line.
*He felt under whelmed by the ending. The emotional impact was diluted from a bewildering, at times overly indulgent and lengthy exposition that divided Sons of Liberty players, and felt unsuitable as the emotional curtain call of Solid Snakes Saga.
*The gameplay is phenomenal. There is an incredible variety of missions that wouldn't feel out of place in even a GTA game. Gamers will be taken on a roller coaster ride of unpredictable scenarios that spin the entire MGS series on it's head and back.
*Gamers are aware of less than 10% of the game. There are incredible amounts of surprise characters, easter eggs and special features that easily drive the possible playtime into the months. Kojima has kept such an astounding amount of content secret that players will be blown away weeks after launch, still discovering new things.
*The game needs to be played multiple times to fully understand and appreciate the story line. There is a great deal of sub plots and layers of themes that are impossible to intake in a single playthrough.
*The script is enormous, possibly surpassing that of all three Metal Gear games combined. Every character has their story line and very few are left undeveloped. There are numerous characters that have not yet been announced to the public.
*The game is an overall masterpiece. He felt extremely satisfied with the entire product, though noted that the ending scenes may divide or fail to reach the expectations of some.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Klone.K said:
Ahh i was casually spoilering the first two sentences :/
Thanks for posting. Good summary.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
There was more than ocelot laughing in that avatar. That avatar showed different clips, one of which revealed a character I hadn't seen before.Rez>You said:
*The gameplay is phenomenal. There is an incredible variety of missions that wouldn't feel out of place in even a GTA game. Gamers will be taken on a roller coaster ride of unpredictable scenarios that spin the entire MGS series on it's head and back.
Anyone else notice this one? I don't care much for MGS' gameplay but that does have me a little intrigued, it def. sounds exciting.
Anyone else notice this one? I don't care much for MGS' gameplay but that does have me a little intrigued, it def. sounds exciting.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Klone.K said:
The part that made me squeal is this:
*Gamers are aware of less than 10% of the game. There are incredible amounts of surprise characters, easter eggs and special features that easily drive the possible playtime into the months. Kojima has kept such an astounding amount of content secret that players will be blown away weeks after launch, still discovering new things.
Oh and i read the spoiler. Nothing biggy but thanks for warning the hardcores.
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