I just finished chapter 1.........I don't think I can continue playing V at this point. I'm too drained and too disgusted.
For 3 years, this thing has been on the forefront of my mind and now this.....just feels empty. I had so much confidence that this would be incredible. I really, truly wanted this project to succeed and so much has gone so wrong. In the back of my mind though, I had this reservation that this could be the dark knight rises all over again and unfortunately, my fears all but became a reality.
How does a person that created mgs 2 fuck up this royaly? Is it egotism? Pessimism? Franchise fatigue? Why do creators do this shit? Judging from everyone else's reaction here, I don't think I'll find much joy in continuing, it would just be torture. Jesus, I'm bummed.
I'm genuinely wondering if the pacing and narrative is solely kojima's doing or konami's ( I would very much like to see the executive s of said company be skull fucked to death and their children crucified upside down.)
The only way to make the phantom pain subside from playing this travesty of a game is to nailgun my dick to a termite mound.
I think the story isn't what we wanted it to be but the game is amazing. It's a lot like mgs2 for me in that way. I expected that game to be solid snake and otacon fucking up metal gears around the globe and chasing ocelot.
What we got was still great and I love that game. Mgs4 was more of what 2 was promised to be but it was the real disappointment.
I hope that there are plans for more content for the game. I am disappointed that it seems zero and cypher stay in the background and we didn't get to see zero/bb clash ideologies.
I just finished chapter 1.........I don't think I can continue playing V at this point. I'm too drained and too disgusted.
For 3 years, this thing has been on the forefront of my mind and now this.....just feels empty. I had so much confidence that this would be incredible. I really, truly wanted this project to succeed and so much has gone so wrong. In the back of my mind though, I had this reservation that this could be the dark knight rises all over again and unfortunately, my fears all but became a reality.
How does a person that created mgs 2 fuck up this royaly? Is it egotism? Pessimism? Franchise fatigue? Why do creators do this shit? Judging from everyone else's reaction here, I don't think I'll find much joy in continuing, it would just be torture. Jesus, I'm bummed.
I'm genuinely wondering if the pacing and narrative is solely kojima's doing or konami's ( I would very much like to see the executive s of said company be skull fucked to death and their children crucified upside down.)
The only way to make the phantom pain subside from playing this travesty of a game is to nailgun my dick to a termite mound.
Wow. I mean I'm surprised the game looks as good as it does on PS3. But the frame-rate is just awful.
To think I almost got the PS3 version myself. Fortunately I just happen to get a decent PC just in time for the game's release. So I consider myself lucky in this case. Really dodged a bullet there.
Yeah the reaction from this community is a real bummer. Game is fantastic, I'm actually having more fun on other forums where most of the people are new to the series. Years of expectations and hype ruining the game for a lot of hardcore fans I guess.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a central theme that it sticks to from beginning to end.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a rich and engaging story, showing appreciation to long-time fans as the series progressed.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a vibrant cast of characters.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has capitalized on key moments, bringing as many fans to tears - whether they be generated by joy or sorrow.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has brilliant callbacks to its creator's legacy; charm.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has used its vocal track to perfection.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has given us a mission to carry out and lectured us on why it is so important that we - as the protagonist - do it.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has taught us the importance of stopping Metal Gear.
Every Metal Gear Solid game... except V.
Because Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker was originally slated to be Metal Gear Solid 5: Peace Walker, I'll use that as my point of comparison - to highlight what I feel that game did right in contrast to what Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain did not, using the outline above. (MGSV spoilers will be tagged.)
Theme
Peace Walker stays true to its theme of Peace from start to finish - introducing you to Paz (Spanish for "Peace"), a school girl who has come to you in hopes of creating a world of peace. By game's end, you are tasked with stopping Peace Walker, a mech who, within a minute, can launch a nuke at anywhere on the planet. (I'll touch more on this battle later.)
The themes of The Phantom Pain are Race and Revenge. Revenge is covered, thoroughly. Race on the other hand... not so much. The only time MGSV touched on race, one of its core themes, was
towards the end of Chapter One, despite Chapter Two being titled "Race." Skull Face planning to return various ethnic groups to their native tongue with his "Ethnic Liberator," as he referred to it, is about the only time the game touches on the subject.
What's funny, personally, is that I feel more of a lust for revenge (Yeah, yeah. I know.) after playing The Phantom Pain than I did after Ground Zeroes. After Ground Zeroes, I thought "OK, it's time for payback! Get hype for a new Mother Base." Yet after The Phantom Pain, with all the emptiness I feel after the ending, I think "Wow. Now I really want revenge. On Kojima! (And more seriously on
Big Boss, Ocelot, Zero, on down the line for their part in all of this.)
"
Rich Storytelling
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker was a story of Peace. However, it also shed light on the downfall of Big Boss. Clinging to hope that his mentor, The Boss, was still alive, Big Boss made his way to where her voice was last heard. The game plays out as it does (will detail bits and pieces as I get into the characters) and eventually, Big Boss is face to face with Peace Walker, who carries "The Boss" on its build by way of the AI Pod. After Peace Walker is stopped in its tracks by Big Boss, it (representing The Boss) puts down its gun, walking away from the battlefield. This was a decision that Big Boss could not live with, damning her will, and casting aside everything she had taught him to believe, in turn creating Outer Heaven.
The Phantom Pain's story is as self-contained as a story in the canon Metal Gear universe can be. However, it does next-to nothing for the arch as a whole unless we choose to plug things in where they may or may not be within the lore. To try and make some sort of sense of it all, I've been using head-canon to piece everything together. For example:
Were the Parasites meant to serve as a FOXDIE prototype of sorts? In Ground Zeroes, Chico has a hole meant for a headphone jack in his chest. Was he an early test subject for the Skull Face's Parasite project - a "Ground Zero," if you will? (Whether it was suggested or confirmed to be self-mutilation, I don't know what to make of what's true and what isn't in Ground Zeroes.) What happens to the English strand carried by Eli?
Even Ground Zeroes gives me more closure than The Phantom Pain. At least after Ground Zeroes, I can say "OK, so this is the straw that broke the camel's back." The Phantom Pain, on the other hand, not so much.
To clarify: I am a fan of the twist. I love the way it was presented, even. I just hate that the game ends at that point. With all of this said, however, people are finding new scenes - a certain monologue was confirmed NOT CUT and still in-game, so that could really add alot to the story - and of course, if there's anything else out there, then that certainly could, as well. If its not hidden behind some Find Zadornov-style missions, let us hope that
Chapter Three: Peace
becomes DLC at some point in time.
Characters
Peace Walker gave us an unforgettable cast of characters. Big Boss, a Hero who took in soldiers from all over the world, giving them a place to call home. Kazuhira Miller, Big Boss' business partner and comrade in arms. Chico, a child soldier who quickly becomes a man under the guidance of Big Boss. Amanda, Chico's tough sister who supports Big Boss in his quest for Peace. Paz, a double agent who plays us all for a fool right up until the very end - filling the void left by Eva and Ocelot.
The Phantom Pain gave us a few cool characters, but every single one of them had been revealed by the end of the E3 2013 trailer. I didn't have a problem with so much being shown off in the trailers, but I had also assumed that Kojima was holding a few surprises close to his chest - but alas. The bigger problem is what happens with the Peace Walker cast - Amanda going off to God knows where, Chico
dying off-screen
, Strangelove
dying off-screen
and so on.
Importance of Key Moments - Playing with Players' Emotions
Mission 43 is the only mission in The Phantom Pain that hit any sort of emotional note with me. It was perfect. However, Metal Gear is a series that makes a living off of its balance in tone. After this mission, I waited for something to come along and pick me back up - something to make me have a giggle. That never happened. Not too long after that, Mission 46 came along and made me even emptier - more so than I'd ever felt playing a Metal Gear game.
I much prefer how this was executed in Peace Walker. After Battle 2, you are shown a cutscene in which Big Boss throws away all of the ideals that The Boss had instilled in him. After this, you are given a set of silly Find Zadornov Side Ops which, once completed, unlock the game's final chapter - and a final boss. And after, an emotionally-charged speech from Big Boss. (My emotions in order of those events: sad, giddy, excited, and finally, satisfied.)
Charm
Peace Walker has charm for days. Comic-style cutscenes, engaging exchanges between its colorful cast of characters, well-delivered cassette recordings, Monster Hunter Missions, a J-Pop song playing during the final boss battle performed by the game's mastermind and on down the list.
The Phantom Pain has Animal Fultons and a Water Gun.
Use of Vocal Track
While its unfair to compare any game to Peace Walker in this regard, The Phantom Pain thoroughly disappoints in every way when it comes to the use of its vocal track, "Sins of the Father." I don't mind it too much, in general, but when compared to how past games made use of their vocal tracks, The Phantom Pain's use of "Sins of the Father" doesn't meet expectation nor come close, really - coming off of Snake Eater's ladder scene, MGS4's return to Shadow Moses (backed by "The Best is Yet to Come"), Peace Walker's "Heaven's Divide" helicopter battle, or even Ground Zeroes' use of "Here's to You" during a recorded torture session, this game's use falls flat.
Purpose of Mission
Peace Walker: They're bringing nukes into Costa Rica. We've been given an oil rig, let's build it up and become a deterrent. We'll house our own Metal Gear and become our own nation. "Snake, it's up to you to create our safe haven!"
The Phantom Pain: Let's build our base and make it big. We can run around it. Wee! We can stop Skull Face, but Mother Base won't really lend a hand in that one way or the other. Still, pretty sweet rig! "You're their commander but you may as well be John Q. Everyman."
Importance of stopping Metal Gear
Peace Walker: The world is on the brink of World War III. Peace Walker is about to unleash a nuke. Snake, you have to stop Peace Walker from launching that nuke!!!!
The Phantom Pain: Sahelanthropus is coming after you. You should probably stop it. We can't let the world find out about it, because that wouldn't be cool!!
[loses Sahelanthropus to group of prepubescents]
I'm coming to terms with how I feel about the game, in hopes of moving past these sorts of things and loving it for its masterful gameplay, which yes, is masterful. I know I'll come around to it, eventually, because by the umpteenth time you play a game, you skip past all of the cutscenes, codec calls, what have you, but still... Metal Gear Solid has always had those special moments that make you want to go back and The Phantom Pain severely lacks that, for me.
So what happens exactly when you fulton soldiers while your MB units are full? It doesn't seem like they ever go to the waiting room. Do I just lose them?
So what happens exactly when you fulton soldiers while your MB units are full? It doesn't seem like they ever go to the waiting room. Do I just lose them?
A lot of TPP's charm comes from gameplay mechanics tho.
- The way you use your buddies. D-horse can poop (very MGS), D-Walker is ridiculously cool and has a personality on the level of D.O.G, The portal 2 bots and MG Mk II. Quiet's grenade ricochet is very in-line MGS over the top action and lastly D-Dog can literally be turned into the Foxhound from the foxhound logo.
- Something people don't praise, but I thought was very neat was USING the base building mechanic within the story context.
Filtering out your soldiers, and seeing them die as you kept delaying the codetalker missions really added to the tension. You all wanted a 'oh shit moment' well this is it. Again, its the kojima quirk worked into the gameplay mechanic rather than an elaborate custscene.
- The amount of stuff you can do with a cardboard box. Sliding, using as diversion, these are all stupid additions that maintain the iconic element from the series.
- The gun-porn which people keep talking about being 'missing' has been turned into a detailed weapon customization system. Rather than 12 min long cutscenes showing snake jerk off about guns, you actually get to do it YOURSELF in game and use it on the field.
- Casette tapes are the new codec. This is subjective, but I prefer them to codec calls. More importantly, I think it makes sense to narrow down the convos to something more specific. This again aids in the design of the game to keep things action heavy yet still keep a remnant/staple of the series.
I think what people are not getting is just because Kojima has cut down custscenes, doesn't mean the game doesn't have the trademark MGS charm and quality. Fulton and water guns is selling it short.
To me the game is just suffering from post-hype/release review backlash as any big game. I think once things settle down people will realize that MGSV isn't just 'good game bad MGS game' and rather understand that it is 'MGS game done differently'.
TPP must really nosedive... I'm hoping this is some kind of misunderstanding T-T
One thing: As far as themes go, so far (Mission 22) the game hasn't really referred to RACE in the biological/social sense. Maybe it's referring to RACE in terms of 'Arms Race'? It is the 80s after all. Taking that meaning, it seems to apply narratively and in gameplay across the board (so far).
Language still plays a big part, which is nice to see.
So what happens exactly when you fulton soldiers while your MB units are full? It doesn't seem like they ever go to the waiting room. Do I just lose them?
These reactions remind me a lot of MGS2 back in the early 2000s. Actually that was a lot worse. People were really having a hard time grasping the game being what it was.
I'm actually not disappointed in MGS5 at all for some reason.
I'm still enjoying it in chapter 2, taking my time, I feel like the story is a little thin but overall i liked the revenge tale against skull face.
Chapter 1 cutscene spoilers WHOOOOOO
I've been watching parodies of that WHOOOO scene and I actually think my favorite part is when the first soldier gets stomped by sehelanthropus there's another soldier that's sheepishly running in front of the camera with this "ohshitohshitohshit" look to him.
I just finished chapter 1.........I don't think I can continue playing V at this point. I'm too drained and too disgusted.
For 3 years, this thing has been on the forefront of my mind and now this.....just feels empty. I had so much confidence that this would be incredible. I really, truly wanted this project to succeed and so much has gone so wrong. In the back of my mind though, I had this reservation that this could be the dark knight rises all over again and unfortunately, my fears all but became a reality.
How does a person that created mgs 2 fuck up this royaly? Is it egotism? Pessimism? Franchise fatigue? Why do creators do this shit? Judging from everyone else's reaction here, I don't think I'll find much joy in continuing, it would just be torture. Jesus, I'm bummed.
I'm genuinely wondering if the pacing and narrative is solely kojima's doing or konami's ( I would very much like to see the executive s of said company be skull fucked to death and their children crucified upside down.)
The only way to make the phantom pain subside from playing this travesty of a game is to nailgun my dick to a termite mound.
Wow. I mean I'm surprised the game looks as good as it does on PS3. But the frame-rate is just awful.
To think I almost got the PS3 version myself. Fortunately I just happen to get a decent PC just in time for the game's release. So I consider myself lucky in this case. Really dodged a bullet there.
Framerate is no good when you compare it to PS4/PC. Otherwise it's not that bad.
Also it looks better because: YouTube compression, Movie Maker codecs and recording through component cable.
MGSV is a major disappointment. The final twist, the pacing, the lack of cutscenes, the forgettable "boss fights" (what a joke), and (end game spoilers)
the fact that we don't even play as the real Big Boss
are MAJOR drawbacks.
I'm disappointed that I waited so long for TPP with such excitement only for it to end with a whimper.
In terms of everything except added gameplay & length, Ground Zeroes is better than TPP.
Not in the least bit. The spoiler thread has many people that are like-minded in terms of that. Hell, it's better alone for the fact that we got to (end game spoilers)
Yeah the reaction from this community is a real bummer. Game is fantastic, I'm actually having more fun on other forums where most of the people are new to the series. Years of expectations and hype ruining the game for a lot of hardcore fans I guess.
TPP must really nosedive... I'm hoping this is some kind of misunderstanding T-T
One thing: As far as themes go, so far (Mission 22) the game hasn't really referred to RACE in the biological/social sense. Maybe it's referring to RACE in terms of 'Arms Race'? It is the 80s after all. Taking that meaning, it seems to apply narratively and in gameplay across the board (so far).
Language still plays a big part, which is nice to see.
don't take what's being said in here as gospel. the game is amazing from start to finish. the story has some pacing issues, and that's about it. people here wanted a traditional mgs narrative. what we got was what kojima said we'd get. something more akin to a tv show.
don't take what's being said in here as gospel. the game is amazing from start to finish. the story has some pacing issues, and that's about it. people here wanted a traditional mgs narrative. what we got was what kojima said we'd get. something more akin to a tv show.
Yeah, I'm getting the feeling that a lot of people were expecting something very different, which is funny considering the amount of trailers and gameplay demos we got. I'm wondering whether, given time, this will end up like MGS2 and be lauded in retrospect (unlikely to be that loved), or end up like MGS4 and shat upon from a great height for all eternity (as MGS4 deserved).
It's interesting you mention pacing issues. I've had a very steady flow of narrative info: cutscenes, tapes, debriefings, overheard conversations... when a big cutscene happens it feels like it is coming at just the right time. That's just me though and I'm only on Mission 22 (33%).
Yeah, I'm getting the feeling that a lot of people were expecting something very different, which is funny considering the amount of trailers and gameplay demos we got. I'm wondering whether, given time, this will end up like MGS2 and be lauded in retrospect (unlikely to be that loved), or end up like MGS4 and shat upon from a great height for all eternity (as MGS4 deserved).
It's interesting you mention pacing issues. I've had a very steady flow of narrative info: cutscenes, tapes, debriefings, overheard conversations... when a big cutscene happens it feels like it is coming at just the right time. That's just me though and I'm only on Mission 22 (33%).
interesting. i felt like there wasn't enough story until around episode 20. but a lot of the plot elements in chapter 2 feel disjointed because it's not one cohesive narrative like all the other mgs games have had
interesting. i felt like there wasn't enough story until around episode 20. but a lot of the plot elements in chapter 2 feel disjointed because it's not one cohesive narrative like all the other mgs games have had
So, two weeks after release I have made up my mind about the score I would give this game. In the first 40hours or so, being at mission 25 or so I would've given this game a 9/10.
But after I finished the game a few days ago and playing it a bit more I would give this game a solid 8/10. It got flaws that really annoy me. Story is an important part of a Metal Gear game and this game is probably the worst in the series in that regard.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a central theme that it sticks to from beginning to end.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a rich and engaging story, showing appreciation to long-time fans as the series progressed.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a vibrant cast of characters.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has capitalized on key moments, bringing as many fans to tears - whether they be generated by joy or sorrow.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has brilliant callbacks to its creator's legacy; charm.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has used its vocal track to perfection.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has given us a mission to carry out and lectured us on why it is so important that we - as the protagonist - do it.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has taught us the importance of stopping Metal Gear.
Every Metal Gear Solid game... except V.
Because Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker was originally slated to be Metal Gear Solid 5: Peace Walker, I'll use that as my point of comparison - to highlight what I feel that game did right in contrast to what Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain did not, using the outline above. (MGSV spoilers will be tagged.)
Theme
Peace Walker stays true to its theme of Peace from start to finish - introducing you to Paz (Spanish for "Peace"), a school girl who has come to you in hopes of creating a world of peace. By game's end, you are tasked with stopping Peace Walker, a mech who, within a minute, can launch a nuke at anywhere on the planet. (I'll touch more on this battle later.)
The themes of The Phantom Pain are Race and Revenge. Revenge is covered, thoroughly. Race on the other hand... not so much. The only time MGSV touched on race, one of its core themes, was
towards the end of Chapter One, despite Chapter Two being titled "Race." Skull Face planning to return various ethnic groups to their native tongue with his "Ethnic Liberator," as he referred to it, is about the only time the game touches on the subject.
What's funny, personally, is that I feel more of a lust for revenge (Yeah, yeah. I know.) after playing The Phantom Pain than I did after Ground Zeroes. After Ground Zeroes, I thought "OK, it's time for payback! Get hype for a new Mother Base." Yet after The Phantom Pain, with all the emptiness I feel after the ending, I think "Wow. Now I really want revenge. On Kojima! (And more seriously on
Big Boss, Ocelot, Zero, on down the line for their part in all of this.)
"
Rich Storytelling
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker was a story of Peace. However, it also shed light on the downfall of Big Boss. Clinging to hope that his mentor, The Boss, was still alive, Big Boss made his way to where her voice was last heard. The game plays out as it does (will detail bits and pieces as I get into the characters) and eventually, Big Boss is face to face with Peace Walker, who carries "The Boss" on its build by way of the AI Pod. After Peace Walker is stopped in its tracks by Big Boss, it (representing The Boss) puts down its gun, walking away from the battlefield. This was a decision that Big Boss could not live with, damning her will, and casting aside everything she had taught him to believe, in turn creating Outer Heaven.
The Phantom Pain's story is as self-contained as a story in the canon Metal Gear universe can be. However, it does next-to nothing for the arch as a whole unless we choose to plug things in where they may or may not be within the lore. To try and make some sort of sense of it all, I've been using head-canon to piece everything together. For example:
Were the Parasites meant to serve as a FOXDIE prototype of sorts? In Ground Zeroes, Chico has a hole meant for a headphone jack in his chest. Was he an early test subject for the Skull Face's Parasite project - a "Ground Zero," if you will? (Whether it was suggested or confirmed to be self-mutilation, I don't know what to make of what's true and what isn't in Ground Zeroes.) What happens to the English strand carried by Eli?
Even Ground Zeroes gives me more closure than The Phantom Pain. At least after Ground Zeroes, I can say "OK, so this is the straw that broke the camel's back." The Phantom Pain, on the other hand, not so much.
To clarify: I am a fan of the twist. I love the way it was presented, even. I just hate that the game ends at that point. With all of this said, however, people are finding new scenes - a certain monologue was confirmed NOT CUT and still in-game, so that could really add alot to the story - and of course, if there's anything else out there, then that certainly could, as well. If its not hidden behind some Find Zadornov-style missions, let us hope that
Chapter Three: Peace
becomes DLC at some point in time.
Characters
Peace Walker gave us an unforgettable cast of characters. Big Boss, a Hero who took in soldiers from all over the world, giving them a place to call home. Kazuhira Miller, Big Boss' business partner and comrade in arms. Chico, a child soldier who quickly becomes a man under the guidance of Big Boss. Amanda, Chico's tough sister who supports Big Boss in his quest for Peace. Paz, a double agent who plays us all for a fool right up until the very end - filling the void left by Eva and Ocelot.
The Phantom Pain gave us a few cool characters, but every single one of them had been revealed by the end of the E3 2013 trailer. I didn't have a problem with so much being shown off in the trailers, but I had also assumed that Kojima was holding a few surprises close to his chest - but alas. The bigger problem is what happens with the Peace Walker cast - Amanda going off to God knows where, Chico
dying off-screen
, Strangelove
dying off-screen
and so on.
Importance of Key Moments - Playing with Players' Emotions
Mission 43 is the only mission in The Phantom Pain that hit any sort of emotional note with me. It was perfect. However, Metal Gear is a series that makes a living off of its balance in tone. After this mission, I waited for something to come along and pick me back up - something to make me have a giggle. That never happened. Not too long after that, Mission 46 came along and made me even emptier - more so than I'd ever felt playing a Metal Gear game.
I much prefer how this was executed in Peace Walker. After Battle 2, you are shown a cutscene in which Big Boss throws away all of the ideals that The Boss had instilled in him. After this, you are given a set of silly Find Zadornov Side Ops which, once completed, unlock the game's final chapter - and a final boss. And after, an emotionally-charged speech from Big Boss. (My emotions in order of those events: sad, giddy, excited, and finally, satisfied.)
Charm
Peace Walker has charm for days. Comic-style cutscenes, engaging exchanges between its colorful cast of characters, well-delivered cassette recordings, Monster Hunter Missions, a J-Pop song playing during the final boss battle performed by the game's mastermind and on down the list.
The Phantom Pain has Animal Fultons and a Water Gun.
Use of Vocal Track
While its unfair to compare any game to Peace Walker in this regard, The Phantom Pain thoroughly disappoints in every way when it comes to the use of its vocal track, "Sins of the Father." I don't mind it too much, in general, but when compared to how past games made use of their vocal tracks, The Phantom Pain's use of "Sins of the Father" doesn't meet expectation nor come close, really - coming off of Snake Eater's ladder scene, MGS4's return to Shadow Moses (backed by "The Best is Yet to Come"), Peace Walker's "Heaven's Divide" helicopter battle, or even Ground Zeroes' use of "Here's to You" during a recorded torture session, this game's use falls flat.
Purpose of Mission
Peace Walker: They're bringing nukes into Costa Rica. We've been given an oil rig, let's build it up and become a deterrent. We'll house our own Metal Gear and become our own nation. "Snake, it's up to you to create our safe haven!"
The Phantom Pain: Let's build our base and make it big. We can run around it. Wee! We can stop Skull Face, but Mother Base won't really lend a hand in that one way or the other. Still, pretty sweet rig! "You're their commander but you may as well be John Q. Everyman."
Importance of stopping Metal Gear
Peace Walker: The world is on the brink of World War III. Peace Walker is about to unleash a nuke. Snake, you have to stop Peace Walker from launching that nuke!!!!
The Phantom Pain: Sahelanthropus is coming after you. You should probably stop it. We can't let the world find out about it, because that wouldn't be cool!!
[loses Sahelanthropus to group of prepubescents]
I'm coming to terms with how I feel about the game, in hopes of moving past these sorts of things and loving it for its masterful gameplay, which yes, is masterful. I know I'll come around to it, eventually, because by the umpteenth time you play a game, you skip past all of the cutscenes, codec calls, what have you, but still... Metal Gear Solid has always had those special moments that make you want to go back and The Phantom Pain severely lacks that, for me.
No, I am most certainly including those! Because they are used to progress the story. I loved them. I was loving the story that was there... until it was yanked away mid-sentence and ended up opening plot holes left and right.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a central theme that it sticks to from beginning to end.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a rich and engaging story, showing appreciation to long-time fans as the series progressed.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a vibrant cast of characters.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has capitalized on key moments, bringing as many fans to tears - whether they be generated by joy or sorrow.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has brilliant callbacks to its creator's legacy; charm.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has used its vocal track to perfection.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has given us a mission to carry out and lectured us on why it is so important that we - as the protagonist - do it.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has taught us the importance of stopping Metal Gear.
Every Metal Gear Solid game... except V.
Because Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker was originally slated to be Metal Gear Solid 5: Peace Walker, I'll use that as my point of comparison - to highlight what I feel that game did right in contrast to what Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain did not, using the outline above. (MGSV spoilers will be tagged.)
Theme
Peace Walker stays true to its theme of Peace from start to finish - introducing you to Paz (Spanish for "Peace"), a school girl who has come to you in hopes of creating a world of peace. By game's end, you are tasked with stopping Peace Walker, a mech who, within a minute, can launch a nuke at anywhere on the planet. (I'll touch more on this battle later.)
The themes of The Phantom Pain are Race and Revenge. Revenge is covered, thoroughly. Race on the other hand... not so much. The only time MGSV touched on race, one of its core themes, was
towards the end of Chapter One, despite Chapter Two being titled "Race." Skull Face planning to return various ethnic groups to their native tongue with his "Ethnic Liberator," as he referred to it, is about the only time the game touches on the subject.
What's funny, personally, is that I feel more of a lust for revenge (Yeah, yeah. I know.) after playing The Phantom Pain than I did after Ground Zeroes. After Ground Zeroes, I thought "OK, it's time for payback! Get hype for a new Mother Base." Yet after The Phantom Pain, with all the emptiness I feel after the ending, I think "Wow. Now I really want revenge. On Kojima! (And more seriously on
Big Boss, Ocelot, Zero, on down the line for their part in all of this.)
"
Rich Storytelling
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker was a story of Peace. However, it also shed light on the downfall of Big Boss. Clinging to hope that his mentor, The Boss, was still alive, Big Boss made his way to where her voice was last heard. The game plays out as it does (will detail bits and pieces as I get into the characters) and eventually, Big Boss is face to face with Peace Walker, who carries "The Boss" on its build by way of the AI Pod. After Peace Walker is stopped in its tracks by Big Boss, it (representing The Boss) puts down its gun, walking away from the battlefield. This was a decision that Big Boss could not live with, damning her will, and casting aside everything she had taught him to believe, in turn creating Outer Heaven.
The Phantom Pain's story is as self-contained as a story in the canon Metal Gear universe can be. However, it does next-to nothing for the arch as a whole unless we choose to plug things in where they may or may not be within the lore. To try and make some sort of sense of it all, I've been using head-canon to piece everything together. For example:
Were the Parasites meant to serve as a FOXDIE prototype of sorts? In Ground Zeroes, Chico has a hole meant for a headphone jack in his chest. Was he an early test subject for the Skull Face's Parasite project - a "Ground Zero," if you will? (Whether it was suggested or confirmed to be self-mutilation, I don't know what to make of what's true and what isn't in Ground Zeroes.) What happens to the English strand carried by Eli?
Even Ground Zeroes gives me more closure than The Phantom Pain. At least after Ground Zeroes, I can say "OK, so this is the straw that broke the camel's back." The Phantom Pain, on the other hand, not so much.
To clarify: I am a fan of the twist. I love the way it was presented, even. I just hate that the game ends at that point. With all of this said, however, people are finding new scenes - a certain monologue was confirmed NOT CUT and still in-game, so that could really add alot to the story - and of course, if there's anything else out there, then that certainly could, as well. If its not hidden behind some Find Zadornov-style missions, let us hope that
Chapter Three: Peace
becomes DLC at some point in time.
Characters
Peace Walker gave us an unforgettable cast of characters. Big Boss, a Hero who took in soldiers from all over the world, giving them a place to call home. Kazuhira Miller, Big Boss' business partner and comrade in arms. Chico, a child soldier who quickly becomes a man under the guidance of Big Boss. Amanda, Chico's tough sister who supports Big Boss in his quest for Peace. Paz, a double agent who plays us all for a fool right up until the very end - filling the void left by Eva and Ocelot.
The Phantom Pain gave us a few cool characters, but every single one of them had been revealed by the end of the E3 2013 trailer. I didn't have a problem with so much being shown off in the trailers, but I had also assumed that Kojima was holding a few surprises close to his chest - but alas. The bigger problem is what happens with the Peace Walker cast - Amanda going off to God knows where, Chico
dying off-screen
, Strangelove
dying off-screen
and so on.
Importance of Key Moments - Playing with Players' Emotions
Mission 43 is the only mission in The Phantom Pain that hit any sort of emotional note with me. It was perfect. However, Metal Gear is a series that makes a living off of its balance in tone. After this mission, I waited for something to come along and pick me back up - something to make me have a giggle. That never happened. Not too long after that, Mission 46 came along and made me even emptier - more so than I'd ever felt playing a Metal Gear game.
I much prefer how this was executed in Peace Walker. After Battle 2, you are shown a cutscene in which Big Boss throws away all of the ideals that The Boss had instilled in him. After this, you are given a set of silly Find Zadornov Side Ops which, once completed, unlock the game's final chapter - and a final boss. And after, an emotionally-charged speech from Big Boss. (My emotions in order of those events: sad, giddy, excited, and finally, satisfied.)
Charm
Peace Walker has charm for days. Comic-style cutscenes, engaging exchanges between its colorful cast of characters, well-delivered cassette recordings, Monster Hunter Missions, a J-Pop song playing during the final boss battle performed by the game's mastermind and on down the list.
The Phantom Pain has Animal Fultons and a Water Gun.
Use of Vocal Track
While its unfair to compare any game to Peace Walker in this regard, The Phantom Pain thoroughly disappoints in every way when it comes to the use of its vocal track, "Sins of the Father." I don't mind it too much, in general, but when compared to how past games made use of their vocal tracks, The Phantom Pain's use of "Sins of the Father" doesn't meet expectation nor come close, really - coming off of Snake Eater's ladder scene, MGS4's return to Shadow Moses (backed by "The Best is Yet to Come"), Peace Walker's "Heaven's Divide" helicopter battle, or even Ground Zeroes' use of "Here's to You" during a recorded torture session, this game's use falls flat.
Purpose of Mission
Peace Walker: They're bringing nukes into Costa Rica. We've been given an oil rig, let's build it up and become a deterrent. We'll house our own Metal Gear and become our own nation. "Snake, it's up to you to create our safe haven!"
The Phantom Pain: Let's build our base and make it big. We can run around it. Wee! We can stop Skull Face, but Mother Base won't really lend a hand in that one way or the other. Still, pretty sweet rig! "You're their commander but you may as well be John Q. Everyman."
Importance of stopping Metal Gear
Peace Walker: The world is on the brink of World War III. Peace Walker is about to unleash a nuke. Snake, you have to stop Peace Walker from launching that nuke!!!!
The Phantom Pain: Sahelanthropus is coming after you. You should probably stop it. We can't let the world find out about it, because that wouldn't be cool!!
[loses Sahelanthropus to group of prepubescents]
I'm coming to terms with how I feel about the game, in hopes of moving past these sorts of things and loving it for its masterful gameplay, which yes, is masterful. I know I'll come around to it, eventually, because by the umpteenth time you play a game, you skip past all of the cutscenes, codec calls, what have you, but still... Metal Gear Solid has always had those special moments that make you want to go back and The Phantom Pain severely lacks that, for me.
This is really on point, great post. I agree with pretty much everything apart from perhaps how you downplay the fact the trailers reveal so much, that still pisses me off.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a central theme that it sticks to from beginning to end.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a rich and engaging story, showing appreciation to long-time fans as the series progressed.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has had a vibrant cast of characters.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has capitalized on key moments, bringing as many fans to tears - whether they be generated by joy or sorrow.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has brilliant callbacks to its creator's legacy; charm.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has used its vocal track to perfection.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has given us a mission to carry out and lectured us on why it is so important that we - as the protagonist - do it.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has taught us the importance of stopping Metal Gear.
Every Metal Gear Solid game... except V.
Because Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker was originally slated to be Metal Gear Solid 5: Peace Walker, I'll use that as my point of comparison - to highlight what I feel that game did right in contrast to what Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain did not, using the outline above. (MGSV spoilers will be tagged.)
Theme
Peace Walker stays true to its theme of Peace from start to finish - introducing you to Paz (Spanish for "Peace"), a school girl who has come to you in hopes of creating a world of peace. By game's end, you are tasked with stopping Peace Walker, a mech who, within a minute, can launch a nuke at anywhere on the planet. (I'll touch more on this battle later.)
The themes of The Phantom Pain are Race and Revenge. Revenge is covered, thoroughly. Race on the other hand... not so much. The only time MGSV touched on race, one of its core themes, was
towards the end of Chapter One, despite Chapter Two being titled "Race." Skull Face planning to return various ethnic groups to their native tongue with his "Ethnic Liberator," as he referred to it, is about the only time the game touches on the subject.
What's funny, personally, is that I feel more of a lust for revenge (Yeah, yeah. I know.) after playing The Phantom Pain than I did after Ground Zeroes. After Ground Zeroes, I thought "OK, it's time for payback! Get hype for a new Mother Base." Yet after The Phantom Pain, with all the emptiness I feel after the ending, I think "Wow. Now I really want revenge. On Kojima! (And more seriously on
Big Boss, Ocelot, Zero, on down the line for their part in all of this.)
"
Rich Storytelling
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker was a story of Peace. However, it also shed light on the downfall of Big Boss. Clinging to hope that his mentor, The Boss, was still alive, Big Boss made his way to where her voice was last heard. The game plays out as it does (will detail bits and pieces as I get into the characters) and eventually, Big Boss is face to face with Peace Walker, who carries "The Boss" on its build by way of the AI Pod. After Peace Walker is stopped in its tracks by Big Boss, it (representing The Boss) puts down its gun, walking away from the battlefield. This was a decision that Big Boss could not live with, damning her will, and casting aside everything she had taught him to believe, in turn creating Outer Heaven.
The Phantom Pain's story is as self-contained as a story in the canon Metal Gear universe can be. However, it does next-to nothing for the arch as a whole unless we choose to plug things in where they may or may not be within the lore. To try and make some sort of sense of it all, I've been using head-canon to piece everything together. For example:
Were the Parasites meant to serve as a FOXDIE prototype of sorts? In Ground Zeroes, Chico has a hole meant for a headphone jack in his chest. Was he an early test subject for the Skull Face's Parasite project - a "Ground Zero," if you will? (Whether it was suggested or confirmed to be self-mutilation, I don't know what to make of what's true and what isn't in Ground Zeroes.) What happens to the English strand carried by Eli?
Even Ground Zeroes gives me more closure than The Phantom Pain. At least after Ground Zeroes, I can say "OK, so this is the straw that broke the camel's back." The Phantom Pain, on the other hand, not so much.
To clarify: I am a fan of the twist. I love the way it was presented, even. I just hate that the game ends at that point. With all of this said, however, people are finding new scenes - a certain monologue was confirmed NOT CUT and still in-game, so that could really add alot to the story - and of course, if there's anything else out there, then that certainly could, as well. If its not hidden behind some Find Zadornov-style missions, let us hope that
Chapter Three: Peace
becomes DLC at some point in time.
Characters
Peace Walker gave us an unforgettable cast of characters. Big Boss, a Hero who took in soldiers from all over the world, giving them a place to call home. Kazuhira Miller, Big Boss' business partner and comrade in arms. Chico, a child soldier who quickly becomes a man under the guidance of Big Boss. Amanda, Chico's tough sister who supports Big Boss in his quest for Peace. Paz, a double agent who plays us all for a fool right up until the very end - filling the void left by Eva and Ocelot.
The Phantom Pain gave us a few cool characters, but every single one of them had been revealed by the end of the E3 2013 trailer. I didn't have a problem with so much being shown off in the trailers, but I had also assumed that Kojima was holding a few surprises close to his chest - but alas. The bigger problem is what happens with the Peace Walker cast - Amanda going off to God knows where, Chico
dying off-screen
, Strangelove
dying off-screen
and so on.
Importance of Key Moments - Playing with Players' Emotions
Mission 43 is the only mission in The Phantom Pain that hit any sort of emotional note with me. It was perfect. However, Metal Gear is a series that makes a living off of its balance in tone. After this mission, I waited for something to come along and pick me back up - something to make me have a giggle. That never happened. Not too long after that, Mission 46 came along and made me even emptier - more so than I'd ever felt playing a Metal Gear game.
I much prefer how this was executed in Peace Walker. After Battle 2, you are shown a cutscene in which Big Boss throws away all of the ideals that The Boss had instilled in him. After this, you are given a set of silly Find Zadornov Side Ops which, once completed, unlock the game's final chapter - and a final boss. And after, an emotionally-charged speech from Big Boss. (My emotions in order of those events: sad, giddy, excited, and finally, satisfied.)
Charm
Peace Walker has charm for days. Comic-style cutscenes, engaging exchanges between its colorful cast of characters, well-delivered cassette recordings, Monster Hunter Missions, a J-Pop song playing during the final boss battle performed by the game's mastermind and on down the list.
The Phantom Pain has Animal Fultons and a Water Gun.
Use of Vocal Track
While its unfair to compare any game to Peace Walker in this regard, The Phantom Pain thoroughly disappoints in every way when it comes to the use of its vocal track, "Sins of the Father." I don't mind it too much, in general, but when compared to how past games made use of their vocal tracks, The Phantom Pain's use of "Sins of the Father" doesn't meet expectation nor come close, really - coming off of Snake Eater's ladder scene, MGS4's return to Shadow Moses (backed by "The Best is Yet to Come"), Peace Walker's "Heaven's Divide" helicopter battle, or even Ground Zeroes' use of "Here's to You" during a recorded torture session, this game's use falls flat.
Purpose of Mission
Peace Walker: They're bringing nukes into Costa Rica. We've been given an oil rig, let's build it up and become a deterrent. We'll house our own Metal Gear and become our own nation. "Snake, it's up to you to create our safe haven!"
The Phantom Pain: Let's build our base and make it big. We can run around it. Wee! We can stop Skull Face, but Mother Base won't really lend a hand in that one way or the other. Still, pretty sweet rig! "You're their commander but you may as well be John Q. Everyman."
Importance of stopping Metal Gear
Peace Walker: The world is on the brink of World War III. Peace Walker is about to unleash a nuke. Snake, you have to stop Peace Walker from launching that nuke!!!!
The Phantom Pain: Sahelanthropus is coming after you. You should probably stop it. We can't let the world find out about it, because that wouldn't be cool!!
[loses Sahelanthropus to group of prepubescents]
I'm coming to terms with how I feel about the game, in hopes of moving past these sorts of things and loving it for its masterful gameplay, which yes, is masterful. I know I'll come around to it, eventually, because by the umpteenth time you play a game, you skip past all of the cutscenes, codec calls, what have you, but still... Metal Gear Solid has always had those special moments that make you want to go back and The Phantom Pain severely lacks that, for me.
Great writeup LD, really shows how coming off PW and GZ someone (me) would think that The Phantom Pain would include the charm MGS was known for, not bland characters, music, plot and a
a bad attempt at a twist your series already made.
Just talking to a friend. Discussing some elements that i think would make the game a lot richer.
1) Don't leave the deployment to be a game you don't play.
The whole idea of sending your troops to do things that affect the game is kinda lame. The RPS article mentions this, and its true. I wish we would do this kind of thing within the game. Actually. i wish outposts and bases or fortress had this included. For example. The comms array and comms links and communication control is a good indication that you can do something to make your life easier, its not an objective, but if you tackle these, then you have more freedom. You not only do it yourself, but you see the ramification of your actions within the game in real time. This is awesome!!! The game needs more of this.
What if there is a base that supplies all of the helmets and upgrades to other outposts? then you can take these out to disable them. Not permanently, but at least until they rebuild it. Its a handicap, and every time you go back to it, they try to adapt to your last gameplay to change things up. Barricades, air support. things of the sort.
BUt lets take this even further. This place sends regular shipments by truck to supply. What if each outpost and base had a space reserved to receive this... you have options now. You can track these trucks, sneak into them, and travel into the place to infiltrate its core. Things branch from here. You can disrupt the truck and cut off the supply. you can steal the truck and reinforce your army. or you can get to the objective, disable the space in the fortress and see things happen.
Lets go even deeper tho!! If you keep disrupting the trucks... they start to supply by air.. using helicopters. you take them down, they send a detail to protect them. you keep going... they send a detail and decoys... to keep you on your toes.
The whole idea is that you are the one that is making the choice to make the game adapt to you. Not the other way around. This makes the gameplay more dynamic, and you feel like the outcome of a scenario is totally based on you, and not of something that is happening off screen.
This post sent me to hell, but we are going even deeper still. ALL FOR THE LUST OF A BETTER GAME!! so... you have all this branching. What if you left them alone... places would get reinforced, what if your actions made the world build things to respond to you. If you keep attacking a place with force they build barricades and trenches. If you tend to hit and run, they build pursue vehicles that chase you until you either engage them or you loose them and be sneaky. Even more fun, a team that is dedicated to hunting you down and ambushing you at times, this could be avoided by collecting intel and going back to some of the places to get data or disrupt or destroy certain outposts. This kind of choices really make the game react to the things you do. Having soldiers just wear a gas mask, or helmets is a great idea, but it doesn't happen as often as it should.
What else... i guess i can keep adding layers of this kind of gameplay. But the truth is... the game needs more things happening around you and affecting you, instead of waiting for you to interact with them. More wild life... like riding your jeep and you see a pack of animals just living their life. Or maybe some hienas taking on a pack of AI. I dunno... keep it fresh. there is plenty of space to make things fun.
i just figured that the game would be a whole lot more unpredictable and fun. Think about you see these two guys at an outpost... they are talking about you infiltrating the suppliers... they said that people are upset and they are putting a group together to hunt you down... bleep.. you get a codec call from Kaz saying "Boss... this new intel, we might want to look into it" a new marker has been added to your map.
Then you can go look for it if you want. But if you stay and listen longer, or maybe on another base, and you never got the data of the new outfit to hunt you, you hear of the path of an ambush.. bleep... you have a new target that talks about the possibility of something happening. It doesn't even need to be marked. Really. Or maybe you find a convoy of enemies going and as you follow them you see them setup camp to set up an ambush or something.
Or if you steal something from a fortress, instead of knowing you can just run away without the enemies pursuing, they have bikes, and jeeps that hunt you down. They send helicopters to track you down and are more effective, than just hiding behind a rock for a few mins until they forget anything ever happened.
I dunno.. i feel like i have to go prod at the game for it to do something. When the game should be the one messing with me most of the time.
Anyways... that is some of the ideas i was discussing and wanted to share. I am prbly full of it. what do you guys think?
Gotta admit, I'm a bit worried reading all these negative comments.
Have very little time to play lately, but have absolutely loved everything so far. Granted, I think I'm only up to Mission 4, but I love the open world and the added freedom that comes with it. I know that's not for everyone, but I'm all for it. I'm really eager to get into building up Mother Base and my Army. I needed this game.
Gotta admit, I'm a bit worried reading all these negative comments.
Have very little time to play lately, but have absolutely loved everything so far. Granted, I think I'm only up to Mission 4, but I love the open world and the added freedom that comes with it. I know that's not for everyone, but I'm all for it. I'm really eager to get into building up Mother Base and my Army. I needed this game.
Just have fun with it. Honestly. i've been having a blast with the game. Even if i have a grumpy impression of it, fact still remains, that TPP is a really really great game. Even with all flaws considered.
