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[Deleted member 30609]

I'm just glad that post was readable. I bumped my head about half an hour ago by walking into the corner of wall after turning off all the lights and was worried my sentences would making stop sense.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

nuh-uh

yuh-huh

 

[robor]

Rez is the man!

 

[Gwanatu T]

You're trying to form a rule or pattern of behaviour from fans of a series when there clearly isn't one. Fans want quality. Resident Evil 4 wasn't Resident Evil or REmake in most any respect. It was just a damn good game and a significant departure from the series norm.

It's odd that you'd mention this is regard to Metroid, given the almost universal praise of Metroid Prime and its own dramatic departure from the play-style of any of the Metroid games preceding it. We were sure ready for something a bit different then, and we sure are now.

Risk for risk's sake doesn't deserve a pat on the back. That's like giving a kid a ribbon for participating in the long jump. Yeah, he face-planted, but at least he gave it a shot, right? Fans want quality. If Metroid: Other M played like Super Mario Galaxy with missile upgrades, you can bet your ass we'd be along for that ride.

Your argument hinges on the idea that Other M would actually be a super-memorable, amazing game if it was called Super Space Bottle Ship: Not Related to Metroid, but under all the window-dressing it's just another forgettable B-tier action game.

I can't properly form my own opinion of this game since I'm only an hour and a half in, but something is missing here. Metroid Prime had the spirit of Metroid. It may not have played exactly like everyone thought it would, given the title of the game, but it felt like a Metroid title in it's story, atmosphere and even gameplay in many ways. So far Other M doesn't feel like a Metroid game to me, and it feels incredibly devoid of any spirit. It's almost like, thus far in to the game, that Tecmo just didn't really want to make the game, but had no other means of income so they went along with it. I'm really hoping that the game picks up and I end up loving it, but at the moment I just don't.

 

[A.CHAP]

Risk for risk's sake doesn't deserve a pat on the back. That's like giving a kid a ribbon for participating in the long jump. Yeah, he face-planted, but at least he gave it a shot, right? Fans want quality. If Metroid: Other M played like Super Mario Galaxy with missile upgrades, you can bet your ass we'd be along for that ride.

I wouldnt be so up for that ride, I like other M because it isnt like other games ive already played. It isnt as good as Galaxy or Prime but Id rather have this than another one of those because ive played similar games before.
It is a good game that plays differently to most other games which for me makes it a great game.

 

[Ridley327]

I have to agree that this game doesn't deserve special treatment just because it does something new. There's always been this sentiment this generation that because a particular title does something different that it is more worthwhile than a game that "spins the wheels" in comparison, but I can't buy into it. Scribblenauts does stuff that I've never seen seen in a game before, but the puzzles are dull and the controls are absolutely awful. A good idea is nothing without an equally good execution.

I think there's a lot of things in Other M that are worth expanding upon, but there's a lot of times where it feels like a rough draft.

 

[jarosh]

I'm just glad that post was readable. I bumped my head about half an hour ago by walking into the corner of wall after turning off all the lights and was worried my sentences would making stop sense.

ah yes, walking around in dark rooms where you can't see shit, bumping into walls and corners, then awkwardly changing directions. sounds just like my experience with other m.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Spoiler

Not controlled, control: link . They kept it as a control condition for experiments with other groups of metroids. But then it turned into a queen.

Spoiler

They kept the queen in a separate location from the rest of them which were in Sector Zero. MB was the one who turned it into a queen thru genetic manipulation. Keeping her in a separate location as a "control specimen" was just an excuse MB made up to have the Metroid closer. She was the only one who knew it was a queen and needed it close by to solidify the bond as a means of control. In other words, if MB could control the Queen, she could control her babies. MB was going to use them and the Space Pirates as a weapon to take out the GF and possibly all humanity. It's a shame they didn't spend more time fleshing this out and explaining it better.

 

[heringer]

ah yes, walking around in dark rooms where you can't see shit

wat

 

[dark10x]

How is the game unpolished? I mean, I can understand that some people don't like the decisions they made with it's design, but the game is very polished in my opinion. There's nothing in this game as jarring (from a technical standpoint) as Ninja Gaiden's camera and imprecise platforming sequences. Not to mention Ninja Gaiden 2, that game is anything but polished.

The framerate drops constantly in nearly every room. Every single time you transition between rooms, it starts to drop frames. Feels sloppy. The way the camera cuts through objects also feels rough (I feel they could have handled this a bit better).

These issues do not sound terrible in writing, but they are present nearly 100% of the time.

For a Metroid game, it definitely feels unpolished (especially after the Prime series).

Ninja Gaiden 2 was a bit rough on 360, though, I grant you that.

ah yes, walking around in dark rooms where you can't see shit, bumping into walls and corners, then awkwardly changing directions. sounds just like my experience with other m.

It's a display output issue. Certain combinations of cables with my receiver and TV resulted in a VERY dark game. The first hallways were impossibly dark and very difficult to navigate. After fiddling around, I found a solution that worked and suddenly the game was much brighter and very easy to see. Those areas at the beginning are all fairly well lit, actually.

They should have included a brightness slider. The real issue here is the Wii itself, however. Composite or HDMI run into my receiver result in an overly dark image. Component, however, works fine. The receiver and the Wii do not get along with those other connections (it is the only device I've used that has this type of issue).

 

[A.CHAP]

I have to agree that this game doesn't deserve special treatment just because it does something new.

Im not sure what you mean by special treatment exactly but the fact that it is doing something new greatly increases my enjoyment of it.

The framerate drops constantly in nearly every room. Every single time you transition between rooms, it starts to drop frames. Feels sloppy. The way the camera cuts through objects also feels rough (I feel they could have handled this a bit better).

These issues do not sound terrible in writing, but they are present nearly 100% of the time.

Is your Wii broken? Mine is a launch Wii that has trouble reading dual layer disks and i didnt notice any of this until i started speed boosting through the map searching for upgrades in the end game.

 

[robor]

wat

The beginning of the game was quite dark. Due to the power being offline.

 

[Ridley327]

His Wii isn't broken; I bought my Wii in March and I had every single problem that he describes. The game just kinda sucks at maintaining 60 fps.

 

[mantidor]

Your argument hinges on the idea that Other M would actually be a super-memorable, amazing game if it was called Super Space Bottle Ship: Not Related to Metroid, but under all the window-dressing it's just another forgettable B-tier action game.

It really isn't. I'm only an hour into the game too, but the game is certainly: not forgettable and, no B-tier at all, the reviews alone prove this. This thread too.

The game actually is just very divisive, people are going to get and enjoy what Sakamoto tried to do or they won't. Is that affected by previous Metroid games? probably, but that's up to each individual player and their experience with the series. I personally think if the game really was Super Space Bottle Ship: Not Related to Metroid it would end up as a cult hit, but with a very small fanbase. Fans of the game aren't necessarly Metroid fans in denial.

The thing that Sakamoto definetely failed hard was to make a game accesible to everyone, but the very nature of the franchise prevents that, these are exploration/action/puzzle games in a sci-fi setting. It's incredibly ironic, because the whole control and combat was meant to be accesible by being so simple, but it actually isn't at all, if you get the combat to work is really awesome, but as much as they try to limit the buttons the number of things that are happening on screen is huge, veteran gamers will feel limited by the lack of buttons, new gamers will feel overwhelmed and start pressing the fire button like mad. I personally feel very much in the middle, and I think there's potential there so I want to get the combat right, but I'm absolutely sure not everyone will think the same and a lot of people will just quit.

 

[Bizzyb]

Spoiler

What's odd is that I thought at the moment they said only specific Metroids could become queens that the baby Metroid she saved would have been one, since all the Metroids they were creating were based on the remnants of that particular one.

Honestly, this and the ramifications it has for Fusion put a HUGE deal of importance on Metroid 2's ending

I always believed that the

Spoiler

Queen Metroid WAS the Baby she had saved earlier. Well, it was an unmodified clone of the Baby. That would have been awesome if they made it so you had to destroy the same metroid that saved your life

Finished last night. Disappointingly short game, if you ask me. The Prime games were definitely much longer and, more appropriately, so were the two recent Ninja Gaiden games.

This was average length for a 2D Metroid game, which it essentially was. This was NOT Prime where you had to scan a lot of things, move at methodical paces solving lots of progression puzzles, and doing a ton of back tracking. This was NOT a Ninja Gaiden game despite Team Ninja working on it, so there's really no comparison there.

 

[jarosh]

wat

game is noticeably darker than other wii games, at least on my set. especially at the beginning of course, but even later.

It's a display output issue. Certain combinations of cables with my receiver and TV resulted in a VERY dark game. The first hallways were impossibly dark and very difficult to navigate. After fiddling around, I found a solution that worked and suddenly the game was much brighter and very easy to see. Those areas at the beginning are all fairly well lit, actually.

They should have included a brightness slider. The real issue here is the Wii itself, however. Composite or HDMI run into my receiver result in an overly dark image. Component, however, works fine. The receiver and the Wii do not get along with those other connections (it is the only device I've used that has this type of issue).

hm. i use component. straight into my panasonic plasma. game seems very dark still. and turning up the brightness on my tv will only result in a more washed out image.

Is your Wii broken? Mine is a launch Wii that has trouble reading dual layer disks and i didnt notice any of this until i started speed boosting through the map searching for upgrades in the end game.

his wii isn't broken. i've experienced the same frame drops and the geometry clipping/camera was also very noticable to me.

 

[Schattenjäger]

So I made it past sector 1 and the game is picking up - music getting better and so is the feel

But I still wish it was less linear and I wish enemies dropped energy and that they still had the item pickup jingle

 

[scitek]

Not to mention Ninja Gaiden 2, that game is anything but finished.

Fixed. That game was rushed out the door and really not given proper QA due to the fallout with Itagaki.

 

[dark10x]

This was average length for a 2D Metroid game, which it essentially was. This was NOT Prime where you had to scan a lot of things, move at methodical paces solving lots of progression puzzles, and doing a ton of back tracking. This was NOT a Ninja Gaiden game despite Team Ninja working on it, so there's really no comparison there.

I dunno, it definitely didn't play out like a 2D Metroid game. You spent far more time in many single rooms than you ever did in the 2D games.

This game played very much like Ninja Gaiden, actually.

 

[scitek]

Whose review was it that started with "What do Ninja Gaiden and Metroid have in common? Nothing." Both backtrack, use a similar upgrade system, feature huge boss battles...they have more in common than "nothing."

 

[Stallion Free]

If Metroid: Other M played like Super Mario Galaxy with missile upgrades, you can bet your ass we'd be along for that ride.

... I want the SMG team to take a crack at the inevitable Other M sequel so bad now. Goddamn.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Alright, finished the game. Here's my informal review.

I completely agree with the controls. We've already discussed it quite a bit, but I think switching to first person would have worked a lot better if the nun chuck were used. Not only would it make aiming faster, but it would have allowed missiles to be used in third person. It also would have allowed other gameplay mechanics particularly in the expository modes. I could see them going with a RE4 type control for that area to break up the monotony. The controls they have do work, but it still doesn't feel natural to me and it's not a set up I would ever want to use again. There's a lot more they can do with the foundation they built in this game if they allow themselves to expand beyond the single Wii remote set up.

I have to agree that this game doesn't deserve special treatment just because it does something new. There's always been this sentiment this generation that because a particular title does something different that it is more worthwhile than a game that "spins the wheels" in comparison, but I can't buy into it. Scribblenauts does stuff that I've never seen seen in a game before, but the puzzles are dull and the controls are absolutely awful. A good idea is nothing without an equally good execution.

I think there's a lot of things in Other M that are worth expanding upon, but there's a lot of times where it feels like a rough draft.

This is probably one of the best comments I've seen in this thread.

Edit - Actually, there are a lot of good comments on this page.

 

[The Hermit]

Whoa, I though I was alone about Other:M.

It had some good ideas, but the whole package is dissapointing, at least.
The biggest offender for me is the lack of memorable music...

Also, I actually expected great things about the story ,especialy regarding Samus past, yet it created a sub-plot completly unecessary. Thinking about it, its the Twilight Princess of the Metroid series: it could have been something huge, yet it failed horribly.

 

[Kai Dracon]

You're trying to form a rule or pattern of behaviour from fans of a series when there clearly isn't one. Fans want quality. Resident Evil 4 wasn't Resident Evil or REmake in most any respect. It was just a damn good game and a significant departure from the series norm.

It's odd that you'd mention this is regard to Metroid, given the almost universal praise of Metroid Prime and its own dramatic departure from the play-style of any of the Metroid games preceding it. We were sure ready for something a bit different then, and we sure are now.

Risk for risk's sake doesn't deserve a pat on the back. That's like giving a kid a ribbon for participating in the long jump. Yeah, he face-planted, but at least he gave it a shot, right? Fans want quality. If Metroid: Other M played like Super Mario Galaxy with missile upgrades, you can bet your ass we'd be along for that ride.

Your argument hinges on the idea that Other M would actually be a super-memorable, amazing game if it was called Super Space Bottle Ship: Not Related to Metroid, but under all the window-dressing it's just another forgettable B-tier action game.

This is a simplification with a giant excluded middle. My argument does not "hinge" on this game being the super amazing game of the forever because a lot of fans are driving it into the ground far more than it actually deserves.

You're leaving out what I've been saying every time I mention Metroid Prime:

Metroid Prime replicates the bullet points of Super Metroid in 3D as precisely as possible. Go look at what the average fan says about it; I have seen a billion remarks:

"Metroid Prime does the impossible! It feels just like I'm playing Super Metroid in 3D!"

"If only it had the screw attack, so the platforming could be just like Super Metroid, it'd be perfect!"

Regardless of Prime's quality, there is large segment of Metroid fans who when asked, loudly insist what makes it good is that it's Just Like Super Metroid. Echos and Corruption are held in increasing disregard, because they are "crappier". The reasons cited is that they "fail at getting it right". This failure usually seems pinned on the fact that they do things that Super Metroid doesn't do in its structure and game design.

Interestingly, Prime fans and people who started playing the Prime series first, look at it differently on average. They are much more forgiving of the Prime series deviating from the /concepts/ and themes in Super Metroid and quite a few of them - including some on this forum - think Corruption is the best game in the series. (Bonus correlation: I saw one person who likes Corruption best say Other M is awesome by him.)

When the default attack on games like this happened earlier in the thread - this game would be just a b-tier mediocre title if it wasn't Metroid themed - I stopped and actually considered that. For one, I don't think that's true. I tried to imagine it as a new IP and found that the core game play and design would be a lot of fun and very good, in my eye. And of course, I think that's another fallacy that gets thrown around by gamers a lot: that the "name" or the IP is just being used to make a bad game seem good.

People play games /for/ content and for characters and themes, as well as gameplay. It's like the popular thing to say about Smash Bros. when you hate it: "this is just a sucky party game full of Nintendo fan service for wanky fanboys!" Well shucks; that's why people are attracted to a game in the first place. The game play is a mechanism that connects them to the content of the game

Again, parallel time: the "Smash Bros." argument is popular right now to use against Other M: "It just seems better to you because it's Metroid!" Well duh. Why wouldn't it be better when the already fun gameplay is used to present an appealing, rich universe and great protagonist? People using this accusation should be made to play Super Cube-Roid, a Super Metroid clone that has all the awesome gameplay, presented in the forms of blank cubes with no personality whatsoever on blank grey backgrounds with no detail or theme. I bet they'd get real far before being bored to tears no matter how good the concept of the gameplay was. No, this classic attack strategy is a big red herring.

The wider point though, is that I am not speaking about the GAF audience when I say "fans want the same thing, dressed up different." I'm including gamers as a whole; you don't have to look far to find rich evidence that people are upset by real change; and that in the process of being upset, they won't get the new, or the different, a fair chance. Hell, I've seen plenty of people say that a hated game seems entirely different when they go back to it later; in some cases, that ended up being because they couldn't accept it at first due to their built-up expectations clashing too harshly. Everything about the experience was "wrong" and unfun. Instant foul taste in mouth.

In point of fact, I think the reverse of the common argument used to slag off Other M is true: if it was a well-designed, interesting new IP with the same gameplay, I think people would be all over it and probably going in the other direction: calling it a great, promising new action adventure title and a refreshing "hardcore" game for the Wii, that even uses a charming new gimmick only the Wii could pull off, what with all that pointing at the screen to look around business.

Hell, How many times has a fan of a series dissmissed a new entry by saying "if it was a different game, and not part of <my favorite series> it'd be a lot better. But it doesn't deserve to be in <my favorite sacred series>." Geeze, I am not sure anyone who's dealt with gamers for any length of time on the Internet could say they ain't seen that one a million times with a straight face.

This business about fans is just human nature. It takes effort and the right mindset for someone to approach something without their expectations warping or souring the experience. I have fond memories of epic Marvel vs Capcom 3 flamewars spawned by the news it /might just maybe/ use a different button configuration compared to Marvel Vs Capcom 2 - before anyone had seen a screenshot of the game, seen it played, or even knew a single thing about the game system at all. Yeah, fans want quality - but the qualifier is that they want /the right kind/ of quality. Often, this means the same kind they already know.

Oh lol, tl;dr. I will just say that point I consider in this when I first saw the reveal of Other M, Team Ninja logo, and the first screens of the game, I could tell it was going to be similar to other Metroid takes but very different in some ways, and even a few fundamentals. Funny enough, my earlier predictions on what the game would turn out to be ended up being oddly accurate. I was interested by those changes; it'd be something new for Metroid, and by those lights, I guess I am the "other kind" of fan; I did want to see the different, but also new what "different" could actually mean. I also predicted pretty much the entire negative reaction then, on the spot: as I told a friend, this game is going to be rejected by a significant number of the fanbase, and is probably going to be called a generic action game; not a "real" Metroid game. Just as Metroid Prime was dismissed by a smaller, but still determined number of fans for not being a real Metroid game and just being a generic FPS.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

You know, I hope I don't get lynched for this, but I actually preferred this to any of the Prime games. I mean I love them all, and maybe it's just because I've played this more recently, but I dunno. The speed and agility of Samus here has really made me dislike the hulking behemoth (woo exaggeration ) of Prime Samus.

Also, I think the fact that I was introduced to the series with Fusion plays a great deal in me liking this so much. That said, Super is easily my favourite of the series, so I dunno.

EDIT: Know what the post above reminded me of?

 

[LowParry]

Man, after reading the past few pages or so, I fear how bad the Castlevania: LoS thread is going to turn out. :lol Meltdowns to crying to absolute praise. You just can't please everyone.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I dunno, it definitely didn't play out like a 2D Metroid game. You spent far more time in many single rooms than you ever did in the 2D games.

This game played very much like Ninja Gaiden, actually.

Ironically, this is something I found interesting about the game, enjoyed, and felt was an intentional melding of the formulas.

It's even more linear than Fusion during some stretches. But the puzzle aspect of Metroid is instead focused on specific locations a bit more than the 2D games, or Prime - especially Prime, where at times one local "puzzle" required moving back and forth between noticeably separated sections to finally solve.

Funny enough, the altered formula is even used to hide a number of the hidden pickups outside the box: often, a pickup will be visible in one room on the radar, but the actual beginning of the route to reach it is hidden in another chamber.

 

[heringer]

The framerate drops constantly in nearly every room. Every single time you transition between rooms, it starts to drop frames. Feels sloppy. The way the camera cuts through objects also feels rough (I feel they could have handled this a bit better).

These issues do not sound terrible in writing, but they are present nearly 100% of the time.

For a Metroid game, it definitely feels unpolished (especially after the Prime series).

Ninja Gaiden 2 was a bit rough on 360, though, I grant you that.

Eh, I dunno, game felt very smooth to me. I definitely noticed a few moments where it struggled to maintain the framerate, but they definitely weren't frequent. Maybe my eyes aren't good for this kind of stuff.

And I found the camera to be pretty damn flawless, so I'm a bit surprised to see that anyone would think that it's unpolished in any way. Feels a bit like nitpicking coming from someone who is (apparently) used to some of the shittiest cameras in the industry. I mean, I understand your complaint wasn't about the camera per se, but still.

None of the technical problems felt as irritating as the infamous loading doors of Corruption.

 

[LowParry]

Eh, I dunno, game felt very smooth to me. I definitely noticed a few moments where the game struggled to maintain the framerate, but they definitely weren't frequent. Maybe my eyes aren't good for this kind of stuff.

There were times when the slowdowns are pretty evident in some of the smaller corridor area's with multiple monsters. It was towards the end of the game. Big purple flying things. Some other slow downs were part of some of the finishing moves. It wasn't a big deal, but it really was noticeable. First time I saw it, the thought that came to me was "Yep, this is a Team Ninja game".

 

[Kai Dracon]

You know, I hope I don't get lynched for this, but I actually preferred this to any of the Prime games. I mean I love them all, and maybe it's just because I've played this more recently, but I dunno. The speed and agility of Samus here has really made me dislike the hulking behemoth (woo exaggeration ) of Prime Samus.

Also, I think the fact that I was introduced to the series with Fusion plays a great deal in me liking this so much. That said, Super is easily my favourite of the series, so I dunno.

You've broken a rule! You've claimed that this game is /pretty good/ even though Super Metroid may still be better! Unpossible, this game must be generic and forgettable crap because Super Metroid exists - no middle ground allowed :lol

Man, after reading the past few pages or so, I fear how bad the Castlevania: LoS thread is going to turn out. Meltdowns to crying to absolute praise. You just can't please everyone.

I'd recommend getting a bulk carton of Jiffy Pop. I fully expect Lords of Shadow to inspire an epic broken base fit of net-rage. Though the effect may already been somewhat mitigated; a lot of people have already decided it's just God of War and has nothing to do with Castlevania, so may not bother getting angry about it. Also, Castlevania fans are pretty tired of Igavania at this point. That may win LoS some major bonus points.

 

[Wizpig]

Man, after reading the past few pages or so, I fear how bad the Castlevania: LoS thread is going to turn out. :lol Meltdowns to crying to absolute praise. You just can't please everyone.

Yeah i don't think i will follow that thread... mind you, i'll probably be one of those people that will be "meh" about the game, but some people are always exaggerated.

About Prime 3: the dislike is not because it experimented, it's because the formula was becoming a little dull, i personally hated part of the graphics (more aliasing), the music was less memorable (but title screen music was awesome), it tried too hard at being Halo, etc. etc.

Sure, in retrospect, compared to Other M, Prime 3 was a masterpiece.

 

[Stallion Free]

Funny enough, the altered formula is even used to hide a number of the hidden pickups outside the box: often, a pickup will be visible in one room on the radar, but the actual beginning of the route to reach it is hidden in another chamber.

The 5 or so upgrades that gave me trouble were always set up like this.

 

[The Technomancer]

I can't properly form my own opinion of this game since I'm only an hour and a half in, but something is missing here. Metroid Prime had the spirit of Metroid. It may not have played exactly like everyone thought it would, given the title of the game, but it felt like a Metroid title in it's story, atmosphere and even gameplay in many ways. So far Other M doesn't feel like a Metroid game to me, and it feels incredibly devoid of any spirit. It's almost like, thus far in to the game, that Tecmo just didn't really want to make the game, but had no other means of income so they went along with it. I'm really hoping that the game picks up and I end up loving it, but at the moment I just don't.

I can't disagree with Rez or anything, but for what its worth I think it starts feeling a lot more like a Metroid game a few more hours in.


Also, I've had like....one framerate drop in the middle of an insane combat clusterfuck. Its weird that you guys are getting more. I don't suppose having it installed to an HDD would make a difference?

 

[Tathanen]

Spoiler

They kept the queen in a separate location from the rest of them which were in Sector Zero. MB was the one who turned it into a queen thru genetic manipulation. Keeping her in a separate location as a "control specimen" was just an excuse MB made up to have the Metroid closer. She was the only one who knew it was a queen and needed it close by to solidify the bond as a means of control. In other words, if MB could control the Queen, she could control her babies. MB was going to use them and the Space Pirates as a weapon to take out the GF and possibly all humanity. It's a shame they didn't spend more time fleshing this out and explaining it better.

Spoiler

Having re-watched the ending, it sounded to me like there was a second queen. They said "she was able to propagate the metroids in sector zero, even creating a queen metroid." I read it as there being two queens on the ship, the control queen kept by the normal staff, and an ice-proof queen kept in Sector 0 that you never encounter. Adam's explanation of why he could freeze that one Metroid, namely that oh it was an infant, sounded like a filler explanation what with his "maybe not" after it. The real explanation was that it was from the control-queen, which necessarily had to be created well before any of this craziness on the ship. If MB indeed created a queen, in the midst of propagating freeze-proof metroids, I think it was indeed a second queen.

Really, MB's whole explanation speech actually didn't have any lies in it at all (barring her first name). She just neglected to say that SHE was MB. She was very forthcoming in general.

 

[heringer]

There were times when the slowdowns are pretty evident in some of the smaller corridor area's with multiple monsters. It was towards the end of the game. Big purple flying things. Some other slow downs were part of some of the finishing moves. It wasn't a big deal, but it really was noticeable. First time I saw it, the thought that came to me was "Yep, this is a Team Ninja game".

This is what I don't get though. dark10x said that Team Ninja games are more polished than Other M and the Ninja Gaiden games suffered from the same problems except they were even worse with a couple others to boot.

 

[LowParry]

I'd recommend getting a bulk carton of Jiffy Pop. I fully expect Lords of Shadow to inspire an epic broken base fit of net-rage. Though the effect may already been somewhat mitigated; a lot of people have already decided it's just God of War and has nothing to do with Castlevania, so may not bother getting angry about it. Also, Castlevania fans are pretty tired of Igavania at this point. That may win LoS some major bonus points.

I'm actually on that boat of seeing Castlevania evolve into something else. God of War clone or not, I'm pretty hyped for the game. It's just a strange tie in with Other M here as to what TN was trying to do with Metroid. Something different. It's the same with the new Castlevania.

 

[Gwanatu T]

Whoa, I though I was alone about Other:M.

It had some good ideas, but the whole package is dissapointing, at least.
The biggest offender for me is the lack of memorable music...

Also, I actually expected great things about the story ,especialy regarding Samus past, yet it created a sub-plot completly unecessary. Thinking about it, its the Twilight Princess of the Metroid series: it could have been something huge, yet it failed horribly.

Funny, because I disliked Twilight Princess for the same reason. Got about half way through it and stopped playing because I was just sick of it.

 

[LowParry]

This is what I don't get though. dark10x said that Team Ninja games are more polished than Other M and the Ninja Gaiden games suffered from the same problems except they were even worse with a couple others to boot.

Ehhhh, are we counting Dead or Alive here? Ninja Gaiden Sigma got its polish. Unless we're talking about the originals. They have their faults here and there.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Yeah i don't think i will follow that thread... mind you, i'll probably be one of those people that will be "meh" about the game, but some people are always exaggerated.

About Prime 3: the dislike is not because it experimented, it's because the formula was becoming a little dull, i personally hated part of the graphics (more aliasing), the music was less memorable (but title screen music was awesome), it tried too hard at being Halo, etc. etc.

Sure, in retrospect, compared to Other M, Prime 3 was a masterpiece.

There are some legitimate reasons to be fatigued about the Prime series by 3. Some people simply hated that it no longer felt just like Super Metroid. Others were fatigued by Retro's poorer conventions wearing out their welcome (bullet sponge enemies, encounters that go on too long, the bad kinds of back tracking despite Prime 3 being more linear at first, etc).

Still, I can't help but see a definite pattern of people who started with Prime liking Prime 3 a lot more than the old school Metroid fans.

 

[robor]

This is a simplification with a giant excluded middle. My argument does not "hinge" on this game being the super amazing game of the forever because a lot of fans are driving it into the ground far more than it actually deserves.

You're leaving out what I've been saying every time I mention Metroid Prime:

Metroid Prime replicates the bullet points of Super Metroid in 3D as precisely as possible. Go look at what the average fan says about it; I have seen a billion remarks:

"Metroid Prime does the impossible! It feels just like I'm playing Super Metroid in 3D!"

"If only it had the screw attack, so the platforming could be just like Super Metroid, it'd be perfect!"

Regardless of Prime's quality, there is large segment of Metroid fans who when asked, loudly insist what makes it good is that it's Just Like Super Metroid. Echos and Corruption are held in increasing disregard, because they are "crappier". The reasons cited is that they "fail at getting it right". This failure usually seems pinned on the fact that they do things that Super Metroid doesn't do in its structure and game design.

Interestingly, Prime fans and people who started playing the Prime series first, look at it differently on average. They are much more forgiving of the Prime series deviating from the /concepts/ and themes in Super Metroid and quite a few of them - including some on this forum - think Corruption is the best game in the series. (Bonus correlation: I saw one person who likes Corruption best say Other M is awesome by him.)

When the default attack on games like this happened earlier in the thread - this game would be just a b-tier mediocre title if it wasn't Metroid themed - I stopped and actually considered that. For one, I don't think that's true. I tried to imagine it as a new IP and found that the core game play and design would be a lot of fun and very good, in my eye. And of course, I think that's another fallacy that gets thrown around by gamers a lot: that the "name" or the IP is just being used to make a bad game seem good.

People play games /for/ content and for characters and themes, as well as gameplay. It's like the popular thing to say about Smash Bros. when you hate it: "this is just a sucky party game full of Nintendo fan service for wanky fanboys!" Well shucks; that's why people are attracted to a game in the first place. The game play is a mechanism that connects them to the content of the game

Again, parallel time: the "Smash Bros." argument is popular right now to use against Other M: "It just seems better to you because it's Metroid!" Well duh. Why wouldn't it be better when the already fun gameplay is used to present an appealing, rich universe and great protagonist? People using this accusation should be made to play Super Cube-Roid, a Super Metroid clone that has all the awesome gameplay, presented in the forms of blank cubes with no personality whatsoever on blank grey backgrounds with no detail or theme. I bet they'd get real far before being bored to tears no matter how good the concept of the gameplay was. No, this classic attack strategy is a big red herring.

The wider point though, is that I am not speaking about the GAF audience when I say "fans want the same thing, dressed up different." I'm including gamers as a whole; you don't have to look far to find rich evidence that people are upset by real change; and that in the process of being upset, they won't get the new, or the different, a fair chance. Hell, I've seen plenty of people say that a hated game seems entirely different when they go back to it later; in some cases, that ended up being because they couldn't accept it at first due to their built-up expectations clashing too harshly. Everything about the experience was "wrong" and unfun. Instant foul taste in mouth.

In point of fact, I think the reverse of the common argument used to slag off Other M is true: if it was a well-designed, interesting new IP with the same gameplay, I think people would be all over it and probably going in the other direction: calling it a great, promising new action adventure title and a refreshing "hardcore" game for the Wii, that even uses a charming new gimmick only the Wii could pull off, what with all that pointing at the screen to look around business.

Hell, How many times has a fan of a series dissmissed a new entry by saying "if it was a different game, and not part of <my favorite series> it'd be a lot better. But it doesn't deserve to be in <my favorite sacred series>." Geeze, I am not sure anyone who's dealt with gamers for any length of time on the Internet could say they ain't seen that one a million times with a straight face.

This business about fans is just human nature. It takes effort and the right mindset for someone to approach something without their expectations warping or souring the experience. I have fond memories of epic Marvel vs Capcom 3 flamewars spawned by the news it /might just maybe/ use a different button configuration compared to Marvel Vs Capcom 2 - before anyone had seen a screenshot of the game, seen it played, or even knew a single thing about the game system at all. Yeah, fans want quality - but the qualifier is that they want /the right kind/ of quality. Often, this means the same kind they already know.

Oh lol, tl;dr. I will just say that point I consider in this when I first saw the reveal of Other M, Team Ninja logo, and the first screens of the game, I could tell it was going to be similar to other Metroid takes but very different in some ways, and even a few fundamentals. Funny enough, my earlier predictions on what the game would turn out to be ended up being oddly accurate. I was interested by those changes; it'd be something new for Metroid, and by those lights, I guess I am the "other kind" of fan; I did want to see the different, but also new what "different" could actually mean. I also predicted pretty much the entire negative reaction then, on the spot: as I told a friend, this game is going to be rejected by a significant number of the fanbase, and is probably going to be called a generic action game; not a "real" Metroid game. Just as Metroid Prime was dismissed by a smaller, but still determined number of fans for not being a real Metroid game and just being a generic FPS.

Other M could be a different IP, it could also defy everything that is Super Metroid and it would still be considered a substandard game. Metroid has nothing to do with it. Now the fact that it is Metroid isn't even part of why I consider it a failure, it's the design choices behind it all. Metroid: Zero Mission is my favorite game to date, and it's one of the least popular out of the bunch. Other M cannot be saved because it's trying different things, like Rez originally stated, they experimented, and this time they failed...hard.

 

[rhino4evr]

All the Prime games were amazing. Id say part 3 was the weakest of the trilogy but it was still good..especially on "veteran" mode.

Echoes may have had a little too much collecting for its own good, but the boss battles, morph ball puzzles, and level design were beyond brilliant. I still think the Prime series has the award for best bosses.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

With tps mode the game uses all the tactile buttons and is the most recognizable mode in relation to previous Metroid games; it has all the Metroid elements of yore along with some additional action sequences that give it a Team Ninja flair. For the most part everything is intuitive and responsive but there are some glaring obstacles in relation to the enemies. You have a sense move where the player can tap any direction on the pad and Samus will dodge and enemy attack. The problem here is that the game never fully illustrates WHEN it is appropriate to tap. The enemies attack sequences vary greatly through out the game and it always seems like guess work for the most part from the player in order to successfully pull of the sense move. If there was some sort of virtual interface implementation to signal when to tap, it would be much less confusing for the casual player to understand (this is the new audience they're after right?).

Umm, welcome to games with a real time element. There is no need to guess when you learn what the different attacks look like/do. I mean that's action game 101.

 

[GregLombardi]

All the Prime games were amazing. Id say part 3 was the weakest of the trilogy but it was still good..especially on "veteran" mode.

Echoes may have had a little too much collecting for its own good, but the boss battles, morph ball puzzles, and level design were beyond brilliant. I still think the Prime series has the award for best bosses.

I'm only 5 hours in to Other M and I can say without a doubt that Other M will go down in my book as having been better than Prime 2 and Prime 3.

Prime 1 is a whole other story.

Other M is just fun, a fun, risky experiment so far with some bad dialogue.

 

[Ridley327]

Man, after reading the past few pages or so, I fear how bad the Castlevania: LoS thread is going to turn out. :lol Meltdowns to crying to absolute praise. You just can't please everyone.

The thing is that LoS is doing absolutely nothing that the series hasn't already done before. The only new thing it's bringing to the table is presentation; hell, it's been the only thing they've been using to sell the game.

 

[robor]

Umm, welcome to games with a real time element. There is no need to guess when you learn what the different attacks look like/do. I mean that's action game 101.

Not when you have multiple enemies with different animations coming at you full bore. Most games show a clear and concise indicator, I felt this game didn't do that. Oh and don't get me started on dodging INTO enemy attacks, there's no way you can avoid that shit. Ridiculous.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

You've broken a rule! You've claimed that this game is /pretty good/ even though Super Metroid may still be better! Unpossible, this game must be generic and forgettable crap because Super Metroid exists - no middle ground allowed :lol

Oh fuuuuuuck

Am I the only person who didn't think Samus had bad voice acting at all? I mean if you think about the character, I think it's really fitting. Also I think most game voice actors are bad so my standards are fairly low anyway and it wouldn't really be a complaint >_>

 

[Kai Dracon]

Umm, welcome to games with a real time element. There is no need to guess when you learn what the different attacks look like/do. I mean that's action game 101.

Aside from the fact that all the enemies in the game have tells so you know when / where to dodge

Spoiler

and the Metroid Queen's minions are specifically designed for you to use their attack tell to freeze the entire mob with a burst shot

there's been criticism that it's /too easy/ to use sense move - just tap a lot and you'll dodge 99 percent of whatever enemy's attack. Which is actually true, to a degree. When you're fighting groups, it's still best to dodge intelligently. The instant charge shot, in my mind, is an incentive to dodge in the correct direction at the correct time; otherwise you won't be facing the right way to use the instant charge on the enemy you dodged.

 

[Stallion Free]

I mean if you think about the character, I think it's really fitting.

Fitting would Adam not allowing her to activate her suit communicator ever. Think like the Varia scenario where Samus will be like, I'm gonna impress Adam by keeping my goddamn mouth shut/voice communicator shut off to prove that I can follow orders and then he never orders her to do otherwise.

Manthony could have done the narration.

 

[The Technomancer]

Other M could be a different IP, it could also defy everything that is Super Metroid and it would still be considered a substandard game. Metroid has nothing to do with it. Now the fact that it is Metroid isn't even part of why I consider it a failure, it's the design choices behind it all. Metroid: Zero Mission is my favorite game to date, and it's one of the least popular out of the bunch. Other M cannot be saved because it's trying different things, like Rez originally stated, they experimented, and this time they failed...hard.

At this point I disagree with you. Although I agree that as a Metroid title the game changes some things that many people consider important, taken on its own merits I am having an absolute blast with the game. I've had zero control issues, the d-pad movement and fps/tps switch are smooth and natural for me, I'm liking where the story is going even if Samus' monologues are groan inducing, and overall just running through and exploring the environments in morph ball tubes and platforming feels fun. I think that they experimented and suceeded on almost every count. The only real complaints I have are the timing of the Adam authorizations and what I mentioned earlier on the page about backtracking to cutscenes.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

Fitting would Adam not allowing her to activate her suit communicator ever. Think like the Varia scenario where Samus will be like, I'm gonna impress Adam by keeping my goddamn mouth shut/voice communicator shut off to prove that I can follow orders and then he never orders her to do otherwise.

Manthony could have done the narration.

That has nothing to do with the voice acting >_>