Are you sure something's not wrong with your copy of the game? I mean I've seen slowdown in the game but not as bad as you're describing. And I'm big on consistent framerates too since slowdown bothers the hell out of me. Does anyone else have these same problems?
The game slows down pretty often. It's certainly not every room, that much is obvious, but most large areas will chug. Loading screens break the flow constantly. The slowdown while saving was jarring at first, but I assumed it was a conscious design choice after a while, just for effect or to cover up the actual time it took to save (not reflecting some sort of taxing effect on the GPU).
mantidor said:
The idea of EAD making the next Metroid game just because they did SMG is completely insane. That's not the way things work. Mario games are a completely different beast compared with Metroid games.
The game slows down pretty often. It's certainly not every room, that much is obvious, but most large areas will chug. Loading screens break the flow constantly. The slowdown while saving was jarring at first, but I assumed it was a conscious design choice after a while, just for effect or to cover up the actual time it took to save (not reflecting some sort of taxing effect on the GPU).
Super Metroid's map design is immaculate. It is unmatched. Frankly I think its success in large part was luck, as I seriously doubt any of the developers realized how rife it was for sequence breaking (obviously they would have some idea of what was possible, but the tricks that have come up over the years have really pushed the limits of what I think they'd have predicted). Essentially every Metroid game has the same progression system: the player is intended to find one item, which them allows them to find the next, and so on. But the fact that Super Metroid simply dropped Samus into a world with seemingly no restrictions but the player's ability to traverse the environment made it feel far more "open" than the other games. Other M never reaches that kind of openness, and progression seems claustrophobic rather than sprawling. It works for the game, as you've said, because it is designed around its restrictions. I wish there would have been more effort into making those restrictions transparent, however. Metroid Prime did a much better job at creating the illusion of freedom. I would have loved to see that kind of philosophy integrated with Other M, even fleetingly so.
And not only that, but Super's map, for regular runs, circles and weaves around itself in a way of presenting and illusion of not knowing where to go, but making it so that if you're paying attention, you'll always be able to keep going forward except for very few ocasions.
I disagree with the Prime part, and I've shared it here in the past. Retro did an amazing job at crafting the game on a room by room basis, but the overall interconected map isn't nearly as polished as the other games. Abilities often reach to dead ends in which you have to pop in your map and see doors you haven't been through and head for that direction, making 180º turn and crawling through the same area without any real difference like the 2d games.
I guess it sums it up pretty nicely of thinking Super as a circle, the Prime series as a zig zag line and Other M as a straight line.
Leap to a different style, though. Galaxy retained what was established in Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine and refined it to a blinding sheen. It was a leap in imagination and polish, not a leap into a totally different design. Other M changes things up enough that it is itself a new block to build upon.
To clarify: by saying "leap in design" I meant progression in an established design, not a change.
Leap to a different style, though. Galaxy retained what was established in Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine and refined it to a blinding sheen. It was a leap in imagination and polish, not a leap into a totally different design. Other M changes things up enough that it is itself a new block to build upon.
Feels similar to me overall. All standard third person momentum-based platformers. Galaxy was simply infused with more creativity than the others. It opened up possibilities that couldn't otherwise have been realized, but it retained the same basic set up: run, jump, get to star.
Are you sure something's not wrong with your copy of the game? I mean I've seen slowdown in the game but not as bad as you're describing. And I'm big on consistent framerates too since slowdown bothers the hell out of me. Does anyone else have these same problems?
It's not my copy. It's a very slight drop in performance. The framerate doesn't drop to 30 fps or anything, but it doesn't hold 60. I'd imagine the average person won't even notice, which is probably why it was left in the game.
Feels similar to me overall. All standard third person momentum-based platformers. Galaxy was simply infused with more creativity than the others. It opened up possibilities that couldn't otherwise have been realized, but it retained the same basic set up: run, jump, get to star.
Galaxy, especially the first one, uses the planetoids to make individual puzzles and platforming challenges. It works better because there's always something to do in each part of the galaxy instead of filling it with long landscapes you longjump to go faster.
Not to mention that Galaxies are designed with a clear goal and finish line instead of the exploration that's consistent in the paintings in Mario 64.
I disagree, it's a different approach. You can bet your ass we'll see far more linear Metroids, and I wouldn't hold my breath with Metroid 1 or Super styled Metroids.
Galaxy, especially the first one, uses the planetoids to make individual puzzles and platforming challenges. It works better because there's always something to do in each part of the galaxy instead of filling it with long landscapes you longjump to go faster.
Not to mention that Galaxies are designed with a clear goal and finish line instead of the exploration that's consistent in the paintings in Mario 64.
I probably went into Mario 64 with a different mentality than you did. I didn't consider the separate challenges for each star as exploration any more than I did the alternate stars in Galaxy.
As for less longjumping, that's refinement in action.
All the Prime games were amazing. Id say part 3 was the weakest of the trilogy but it was still good..especially on "veteran" mode.
Echoes may have had a little too much collecting for its own good, but the boss battles, morph ball puzzles, and level design were beyond brilliant. I still think the Prime series has the award for best bosses.
I'm torn between Prime 1 and 3, as I think I like them both as much as the other. Prime 1 probably comes on top simply because of the WOW factor that was experienced throughout the entire game. Prime 2 and 3 lacked that simply because they were sequels, but Prime 3 really added a new feel to the series somehow, maybe just because it was so many years apart and the new controls helped, but I loved all the puzzles and environments in Prime 3, and especially the story; the story was utterly fantastic.
King Chozo said:
To the person who complained about the gray pipes and corridors... YOU'RE ON A SPACESHIP! Only experimentation rooms have anything but Gray corridors unless they been overrun.
I'm not going to address any other points of yours, but this definitely is not true. Look at any of the hallways in the Prime series. Every area looks distinct and it's full of life. I just don't feel that way in Other M; the environments are dead and sterile at parts, and the interactivity is basically nothing.
It's not my copy. It's a very slight drop in performance. The framerate doesn't drop to 30 fps or anything, but it doesn't hold 60. I'd imagine the average person won't even notice, which is probably why it was left in the game.
I hit a couple of instances of pretty in-your-face slowdown while speed boosting. Not stuttery framerate drops, but slowdown--everything was still running smoothly, but slowly (if that makes sense). Samus' steps visibly and audibly slowed, almost as if the game were going into "bullet time".
Outside of that, once in a while I'd see an easy-to-miss stutter during a fight. Overall, the game performs admirably, especially since it looks so nice.
I probably went into Mario 64 with a different mentality than you did. I didn't consider the separate challenges for each star as exploration any more than I did the alternate stars in Galaxy.
As for less longjumping, that's refinement in action.
Perhaps. But in Galaxy you almost always traverse in a straight line, and levels adapt much more for each specific star. It's not unheard of looking around for the star sometimes, wondering what to really do and find another star by accident. Of course some levels are worse than others, but 64 offers much more freedom in that regard.
I will never forgive Project M for not including an orchestral rendition of the original Metroid title theme, something akin to the phenomenal Zero Mission arrangement would have blown me away.
Regardless, I said "virtually" every room in that there is always slowdown when transitioning between areas which means that there is at least a bit of slowdown present in every room. Even just walking from an empty hallway into the save room is enough to produce this (heck, the framerate drops while panning around Samus during the save sequence even). Doesn't ruin the game or anything like that, but it definitely makes it feel less polished.
I've also played Prime recently and, for all intents and purposes, the framerate is perfect. You can make it slow down, sure, but it very rarely crops up. The game runs MUCH smoother than Other M. I don't see how anyone could deny that much.
Geez, dark, this shtick of yours gets kind of tiring :/ You're literally the only person I've seen anywhere who harps on framerate and small technical points so much. Most of your posts about games consist of technical nit-picking.
It's just hard to take your game opinions seriously if most of your critiques just weigh in on technical nits instead of the core game itself. Especially on games like this where the the framerate occasionally drops to 40FPS or something. Sure, it sucks, but it's not really detracting from the overall experience with such small dips. Of course, I've only played the first 4 hours or so of the game so I might be WAY off base with my assertion here.
One of the most disappointing factors for me is the lack of detail in the world. Retro did a great job creating an entire encyclopedia of the world with the scanning and giving the player details on each object and creature in the game and the purpose it serves. I miss not being able to find out details of the creatures or the cool looking objects.
Also the level design is pretty bad. Without the 3D maps of the Prime series the sections have devolved into the standard corridors in between large rooms syndrome. While that was true with Prime as well, Retro did a great job designing each room and even the corridors well enough so that the feeling of repetition never set in. Not the case in Other M where the corridors especially start to look the same after a while.
One of the most disappointing factors for me is the lack of detail in the world. Retro did a great job creating an entire encyclopedia of the world with the scanning and giving the player details on each object and creature in the game and the purpose it serves. I miss not being able to find out details of the creatures or the cool looking objects.
Also the level design is pretty bad. Without the 3D maps of the Prime series the sections have devolved into the standard corridors in between large rooms syndrome. While that was true with Prime as well, Retro did a great job designing each room and even the corridors well enough so that the feeling of repetition never set in. Not the case in Other M where the corridors especially start to look the same after a while.
My biggest problem with the level design is it completely forgoes the verticality that is a staple of the series. Fusion and Corruption did this to some extent as well, but Other M's map is almost constantly horizontal. You gain speed, but lose that vertical platforming.
Galaxy is a great game. Between Galaxy 1 and 2 being so much of the same, I'm actually enjoying Other M more.
I'll complete Galaxy 2, but it kind if fizzled out for me a bit sometime around World 3.
I think I was also getting tired of all the super cutseyness of it all. Contrived and stitled as it may be, I find the narrative, maturity, and adult-themed sci fi of Other M as a good directional shift for Nintendo.
My only real complaints are the music, and one improvement I'd make is the lighting. Samus and the characters look and animate brilliantly, but the evnrionment lighting is pretty flat. How much cooler would it be to run down a corridor and have the far end be nearly pitch black, as one of those two legged lumbering spikey monsters creeps around the corner, and you don't even notice till your right on it? The game feels claustriopbic but could use more of a sense of tension in some of it. Running down a long corridor and seeing the enemies at the far end clearly waiting for you I think could have been handled a bit differently.
Galaxy is a great game. Between Galaxy 1 and 2 being so much of the same, I'm actually enjoying Other M more.
I'll complete Galaxy 2, but it kind if fizzled out for me a bit sometime around World 3.
I think I was also getting tired of all the super cutseyness of it all. Contrived and stitled as it may be, I find the narrative, maturity, and adult-themed sci fi of Other M as a good directional shift for Nintendo.
My only real complaints are the music, and one improvement I'd make is the lighting. Samus and the characters look and animate brilliantly, but the evnrionment lighting is pretty flat. How much cooler would it be to run down a corridor and have the far end be nearly pitch black, as one of those two legged lumbering spikey monsters creeps around the corner, and you don't even notice till your right on it? The game feels claustriopbic but could use more of a sense of tension in some of it. Running down a long corridor and seeing the enemies at the far end clearly waiting for you I think could have been handled a bit differently.
My biggest problem with the level design is it completely forgoes the verticality that is a staple of the series. Fusion and Corruption did this to some extent as well, but Other M's map is almost constantly horizontal. You gain speed, but lose that vertical platforming.
I kinda had that thought too when I was running around collecting items. There's a room towards the start of the game that has a really large vertical section and it's one of the best rooms in the game because it stands out. There's another area, I forget which sector, where you're also running up a bunch of steps and using the grappling beam which stood out for similar reasons. It wasn't something I missed actually going through the game, but when I thought about it, I missed it.
For all of the people complaining about the lack of detail in the graphics, it was probably necessary to keep load times down. I don't think the Wii has enough power to do both. It's why rooms that allow speed boosting have virtually no detail and could also be why they chose a space station again. It has a clean, sterile look that doesn't have to have a lot of detail.
As far as pacing and progression goes, I think it was kind of silly to not let you go back thru the game and get all the power ups before going to the final boss. I like the special ending, but they could have made that section where you were unlocking extras instead. In other words, instead of collecting missile tanks, you were unlocking the soundtrack or costumes. How bad ass would it be to replay the game with the Fusion suit?
I'm probably about halfway through the game now, and I'm kinda thinking that while there are a lot of overreactions, it's definitely B-tier for Metroid. I feel about Other M sorta the same way I felt about Fusion. The biggest problem is that they try to find some sort of middle ground between the 2D Metroids and Prime and it just doesn't work as well as it should. I really have no idea why any combat should be done in first-person mode.
Also, is anybody else finding it incredibly hard to break the habit of shooting doors to open them?
I'm probably about halfway through the game now, and I'm kinda thinking that while there are a lot of overreactions, it's definitely B-tier for Metroid. I feel about Other M sorta the same way I felt about Fusion. The biggest problem is that they try to find some sort of middle ground between the 2D Metroids and Prime and it just doesn't work as well as it should. I really have no idea why any combat should be done in first-person mode.
Also, is anybody else finding it incredibly hard to break the habit of shooting doors to open them?
In other words, instead of collecting missile tanks, you were unlocking the soundtrack or costumes. How bad ass would it be to replay the game with the Fusion suit?
Fuuuu. I don't think we see eye to eye on many things, but boy - that would be pretty cool. Unfortunately it's something that many games don't seem to do much any more.
I'm probably about halfway through the game now, and I'm kinda thinking that while there are a lot of overreactions, it's definitely B-tier for Metroid. I feel about Other M sorta the same way I felt about Fusion. The biggest problem is that they try to find some sort of middle ground between the 2D Metroids and Prime and it just doesn't work as well as it should. I really have no idea why any combat should be done in first-person mode.
Also, is anybody else finding it incredibly hard to break the habit of shooting doors to open them?
From many pages back, I think the reason for first-person missile locking is to prevent a control clusterf**k with the super fast paced combat system and the need to manually cycle lock-on to prevent wasting limited missile ammo. A conflict of interests in the flow of combat vs deliberate called shots with missiles. They designed enemy patterns around going into visor look to lock on and fire at the right time; I don't think it's a problem when one plays the game going along with the flow that's intended.
But, the dissatisfaction some people experience is not just rooted in a dislike of turning the wiimote to point, but in wanting a typical Metroid combat logic of shooting missiles as much as beams and/or wanting absolute and precise control over which enemy in a pack you are attacking - even if it's not the closest enemy or the most immediate threat in terms of how the game is intended to see it.
The real question is not "why is it different" but "is the trade-off worth it". For a lot of people, the answer is surprisingly yes as far as the dynamic nature of the combat goes. There's a lot of fresh new excitement provided by this system. Maybe it can be refined even further; maybe an alternate missile system can be devised that doesn't rely on a more commonplace solution which wouldn't clash with how the base combat works.
In this hypothetical dream release I mandate more/tougher bosses and a playable Sector 0. Bonuses would be extra unlockable art, series history, suits (Fusion suit, anything from Prime series), and to top it off a playable version of Metroid II so newcomers can catch up on the origin of the babby.
Also the ending would be extended so it isn't just a single hour long block of exposition. The majority of the story is literally just explained by a single unknown character at the end of the game, which is inexcusable. In a perfect world there would be another last boss or two, and playable sequences would outnumber cutscenes.
Really I thought it was designed to focus more on the third-person mode? I may have not yet played Hard Mode where it seems missiles are used as a crutch but I rarely went into first person and rather just constantly used the Sense Move.
Crunched said:
In this hypothetical dream release I mandate more/tougher bosses and a playable Sector 0. Bonuses would be extra unlockable art, series history, suits (Fusion suit, anything from Prime series), and to top it off a playable version of Metroid II so newcomers can catch up on the original of the babby.
Just completed this 100% and am thus entering the thread for the first time.
Probably going to repeat what has been said but here goes anyway: I had fun playing the game.
Plusses
They've got a third-person mechanic that works reasonably well.
I died a lot, I like that there was a challenge.
Voice acting was functional, not stellar but not bad.
Story was interesting in its own way.
Some wonderful nods to past games that had me very intrigued.
The returning bosses were very nicely imagined from their 8-bit origins, especially the Metroid Queen
.
FMV sequences were very nicely made.
Anthony is a good character. Adam was an interesting character.
Some really fun bosses.
More game
after the credits
is a pleasant idea I'd like to see return.
Negatrons
There are a truly baffling number of areas in which Metroid Prime is clearly and massively superior: Level design, variety of levels themes, artwork, music (!!!), game mechanics, atmosphere, diversity of enemies, ball puzzles, scale of world, story, innovating new abilities (visors!) and is a wholly richer, deeper game. I can appreciate taking a different direction for the series (and I'll emphasise that I did quite like this game) but there's no excusing being inferior in so many ways to an eight-year-old game. This is shocking.
"Samus, what's happening....!?" most of the time when you die. Don't ever do this again.
TOO MANY LOCKED DOORS.
The absolutely ridiculous "authorised" idea, possibly the most bizarre and questionable thing they've ever done in a Metroid game.
Instant death when an
elevator fell on my head
. I don't like that in my Metroids, thank you very much.
The invisible walls were a persistent nuisance, kept taking me out of the game. As did temporary lock-ups while the game got confused trying to load.
The idea of Samus as "The Hunter", the silent merciless unstoppable killing machine who terrorised the Space Pirates in the previous games, is gone forever. Her established personality, while not offensive, is certainly less mature than I'd have imagined.
There isn't that much exploring. The enviroments weren't that interesting. The music was forgettable. Too many dull metal corridors.
God damn I miss scanning.
Overall
Probably a 7 out of 10. I went in with no expectations and came out with a game I enjoyed. Possibly a weaker point in the franchise, but by no means a disaster. An enjoyable experiment for the series, and could be a stepping stone to better games.
I'm really surprised that so many people are so adamant about the music in the game. Guess we really enjoy our music that we can relate to areas and moments.
One of the best parts of the game was after Samus finds the second lab guy's body, the music starts to play. Loved it.
I've decided this game reminds me of Arkham Asylum - I suppose in the same way that AA reminds me of Metroid. The combat seems to be a similar aspect, with the dodge and attack element. I wonder what would happen if there was a combo system much like AA in place... Would it just get branded Metroid Gaiden? Would it get shot down by fans? (probably :lol) Most importantly - would there be a point to it? Perhaps it could replace the collection of power-ups that people seem to miss. Dodge well and time your shots in combat to get a multiplier, which builds up and past a certain point recharges your a segment of your health? I dunno..
Fuuuu. I don't think we see eye to eye on many things, but boy - that would be pretty cool. Unfortunately it's something that many games don't seem to do much any more.
I think I must come across as someone who hates this game. That's not true at all. I'm just really critical of it. I wish they would have ironed some of these issues out, but it is what it is.
So I was watching a video of this on youtube and I saw the game stop to load in the middle of combat. Did anyone else experience this while playing? I never once had the game pause for a second to load. I did have a few framerate issues when I used the speedbooster but beyond that I didn't really experience any technical problems.
I think I must come across as someone who hates this game. That's not true at all. I'm just really critical of it. I wish they would have ironed some of these issues out, but it is what it is.
Oh no I don't think you hate the game at all. It's more to do with the controls - you don't like them and I do. That said, I do think a control scheme with the nunchuck - even if it were just mimicking the D-pad - would've been nice for some people. The game seems to be missing options as a whole I guess.
Going back to the AA parallel, you could have the missile system activated in third person after getting a certain combo level. You would probably have to change how the combat works an awful lot though, having Samus climbing over enemies and such....
other m's in-game music is at best forgettable, generic and boring and at worst out of place and cliched. the music during cutscenes is another story altogether: truly awful. an entirely unfitting orchestral hollywood blockbuster assault that never fails to announce and underline every little shift in emotion, every camera pan, every cut, every close-up, every reaction shot, no matter how trivial. yet it still manages to sound hilariously out of place in its over-the-top seriousness and complete lack of subtlety. when samus approached the space station in her ship and the nervous horns and strings on speed wouldn't stop playing MENACE and MILITARY ACTION i couldn't help but laugh. kind of reminded me of carter burwell's parody of military thriller scores in "burn after reading".
