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[Deleted member 30609]

"Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented."

This should be stamped onto the forehead of every one of the top ten twenty posters in this thread.

 

[etiolate]

"Opinions rarely change when they exist without reason."

Should be like a neon sign.

 

[Bizzyb]

//Metroid: Other M screen play - Scene 24//

Enter Samus stage left

The camera pans over the dead body of James, a Galactic Federation soldier while Samus curiously investigates.

Samus (internal dialog) - "Hmmm. A dead body. It's James. What.... ..... ..... could have happened."

Samus then looks up and the camera focuses in on a door.

//End Scene 24//

They made Samus look like a dunce in the game and you're blaming the audience? I seriously don't know how some of you do it.

How exactly does that make her look like a Dunce. Isn't that what would be expected of her to think? Those internal monologues are just US being able to hear what Samus is thinking and that's a reasonable thought to have. She sees a dead body, IDs it and questions how he died. What's so "dunce" about that?

 

[MadOdorMachine]

To be fair, story was a big aspect in the project, but it being forgettable has nothing to do with my inmense enjoyment of the game.

That's kind of the problem Boney. It's not forgettable because the whole point was to take the mystery out of Samus. That's the direction they want to take the series in. I guess I'm just having a harder time getting over it than most. I feel like Fusion was the Alien 3/Terminator 3 of the franchise and Other M is the Alien 4/Terminator Salvation. People will reflect on the glory days and hope they return to them, but that seems very unlikely at this point. Reality is slowly setting in for me. Unless they take another direction, Metroid as I knew it is dead. Maybe that's what the next game should be called - Metroid: Dead.

 

[Bizzyb]

That's kind of the problem Boney. It's not forgettable because the whole point was to take the mystery out of Samus. That's the direction they want to take the series in. I guess I'm just having a harder time getting over it than most. I feel like Fusion was the Alien 3/Terminator 3 of the franchise and Other M is the Alien 4/Terminator Salvation. People will reflect on the glory days and hope they return to them, but that seems very unlikely at this point. Reality is slowly setting in for me. Unless they take another direction, Metroid as I knew it is dead. Maybe that's what the next game should be called - Metroid: Dead.

MadOdorMachine

Metroid Other M

Hmmm.........

 

[etiolate]

The story focus also is responsible for how the game was designed in order to accommodate the story, which includes all those locked doors and uber-linear progression. Sakamoto also admitted in that gamestm interview that this is a dumbed down Metroid, even though they couldn't even keep that logic consistent.

 

[MarshMellow96]

I think to interpret a person's enjoyment of this game as 'loving something without reason' is one thing, but to suggest that the posters in this thread have a difficulty in understanding exactly why they enjoy it is utterly baseless and downright insulting.

 

[Boney]

I say chill whenever people start to get agitated. You can perfectly say the same thing without the need of such tones. It's unpleasant.

That's kind of the problem Boney. It's not forgettable because the whole point was to take the mystery out of Samus. That's the direction they want to take the series in. I guess I'm just having a harder time getting over it than most. I feel like Fusion was the Alien 3/Terminator 3 of the franchise and Other M is the Alien 4/Terminator Salvation. People will reflect on the glory days and hope they return to them, but that seems very unlikely at this point. Reality is slowly setting in for me. Unless they take another direction, Metroid as I knew it is dead. Maybe that's what the next game should be called - Metroid: Dead.

But Terminator 3 is the worst one

heh in all seriousness, yeah, I can totally see why this characterisation can turn people off, but personally, the most important aspect is the gameplay, which is outstanding to me.

Maybe it has to do with the fact that I don't feel inmersed in games and haven't really been attached to characters other than the "cool" factor except for a few guys. And I'd even say, that Samus is way cooler in this game than ever with all the lethal strikes and good action.

The story focus also is responsible for how the game was designed in order to accommodate the story, which includes all those locked doors and uber-linear progression. Sakamoto also admitted in that gamestm interview that this is a dumbed down Metroid, even though they couldn't even keep that logic consistent.

Story has nothing to do with the linearity imposed in the game. And I wouldn't call it dumbed down, just a different approach.

 

[Solune]

I didn't expect some brilliant story because it's a series defined by the gameplay.

You don't know neither do I that they went into it hearing all the talk and what they read beforehand about the attempts of bringing the characters to life with the notion it was going to be 100% cringeworthy and neither do I but I have my doubts when they use such typical adjectives of exaggeration.

I cringed a few times but most of the story was fine and the dialogue was fine and it didn't make me embarrassed to play the game or for the writers.

I could give a shit about the story though, I just wanted solid gameplay and design and for the most part, I surprisingly got both.

TheGreatMightyPoo
Mouthpiece of the Holy Truth

 

[MadOdorMachine]

How exactly does that make her look like a Dunce. Isn't that what would be expected of her to think? Those internal monologues are just US being able to hear what Samus is thinking and that's a reasonable thought to have. She sees a dead body, IDs it and questions how he died. What's so "dunce" about that?

I can't do this anymore. You just said you "think people are stupid and expect Hollywood scripts for videogames just because they often have excellent cinematography." That's not how Hollywood scripts work. The cinematography explains a lot of it. There was no need for Samus to say that other than to point out the obvious which degrades the character of her that we've come to know. I was simply giving you an example of how terribly your idea was implemented. I take back my Metroid: Dead title. I think the next game should be called - Metroid: The Death of Samus. On the boxart in big, bold letters, they can put, "Introducing Captain Obvious."

MadOdorMachine

Metroid Other M

Hmmm.........

I'm surprised someone finally caught that.

 

[etiolate]

I think to interpret a person's enjoyment of this game as 'loving something without reason' is one thing, but to suggest that the posters in this thread have a difficulty in understanding exactly why they enjoy it is utterly baseless and downright insulting.

wah wahhh

No, it is spot on. Tired of the whining in response to what I say. MightyPoo's explanation for his story comments were confused and slightly incoherent. I asked Boney to explain his statement and that explanation sounded confused. People are arguing that they have liked Metroid for its linearity are clearly confused.

If there was a real reasoning behind some of these opinions, wouldn't it have emerged by now? We are still stuck at "I like it because I like it."

 

[Boney]

wah wahhh

No, it is spot on. Tired of the whining in response to what I say. MightyPoo's explanation for his story comments were confused. I asked Boney to explain his statement and that explanation sounded confused. People are arguing that they have liked Metroid for its linearity are clearly confused.

If there was a real reasoning behind some of these opinions, wouldn't it have emerged by now? We are still stuck at "I like it because I like it."

you asked me about a god damn title :lol

 

[Deleted member 30609]

"I cringed a few times but most of the story was fine and the dialogue was fine and it didn't make me embarrassed to play the game or for the writers."

I haven't really got involved in the story discussion, other than to just label it as unmemorable, poorly conceived and executed trash, but this quote actually makes me a little sad and maybe a little excited. I'm sad because it could mean you just have truly abhorrent taste, but excited because it could just mean you have a whole world of awesome stories and characters out there you haven't yet experienced to compare and contrast with the nonsense in this game.

 

[etiolate]

Boney: I was trying to figure out how you think so I could understand your "opinion", but you're explanation was "because it would be too obvious and dumb but I guess the story is that way". Which is.. well then why have the opinion on the title?

 

[MadOdorMachine]

I say chill whenever people start to get agitated. You can perfectly say the same thing without the need of such tones. It's unpleasant.

You're right. I think it's time I take a break from this thread. I would just like to say, it isn't the people around here that agitate me, it's the game. I did enjoy it, but I'm also very upset about it.

 

[Boney]

Boney: I was trying to figure out how you think so I could understand your "opinion", but you're explanation was "because it would be too obvious and dumb but I guess the story is that way". Which is.. well then why have the opinion on the title?

I'm not following.

It's a poor title, there's no way around that, it sounds dull, the fore shadowing are dumb and there's not punch at all. It sucks. And since I'm very positive with the game, I think you like to skip the part where I've repeatedly stated how the story is badly written and translated even worse.

And well.. excuuuuuuuuuse me princess if my english isn't up par with your's. Let's discuss in spanish so I can explain myself better.

You're right. I think it's time I take a break from this thread. I would just like to say, it isn't the people around here that agitate me, it's the game. I did enjoy it, but I'm also very upset about it.

It's been a treat discussing with you, we don't agree with certain parts, but it's been fun. I can totally understand your pain with the controls, hell you had to mod a Wii Remote.

 

[etiolate]

I'm not judging your English Boney. I asked you to explain one simple opinion so that it may help me understand your thought process, so I can understand that and apply it to your game opinion, because the game opinion made no sense. Trying to get people to explain their game opinion has resulted in anger and hostility, so I went with something small.

 

[Boney]

I'm still not following you.

 

[etiolate]

I was asking you to think about what you were saying so I could see how you think?

 

[jman2050]

I'm still not following you.

He's on his elitist streak again. Make your arguments and/or inquiries as long-winded and wordy as possible, preventing the other person from being able to respond in a satisfactory way, and then bask in the glory as you "win" your argument by virtue of the respondent not bothering to answer.

 

[Bizzyb]

I can't do this anymore. You just said you "think people are stupid and expect Hollywood scripts for videogames just because they often have excellent cinematography." That's not how Hollywood scripts work. The cinematography explains a lot of it. There was no need for Samus to say that other than to point out the obvious which degrades the character of her that we've come to know. I was simply giving you an example of how terribly your idea was implemented. I take back my Metroid: Dead title. I think the next game should be called - Metroid: The Death of Samus. On the boxart in big, bold letters, they can put, "Introducing Captain Obvious."


I'm surprised someone finally caught that.

When I said excellent cinematography I meant that the way the camera cuts in and out of scenes and pans, sweeps, and zooms. Even still, regardless of cinematogrphy explaining scenes, Sakamoto wanted us to HEAR many of Samus's thought's. Some people (including my brother) dislike most movies that use heavy Narration because, like many of you here, he believes the movie should show rather than tell.

Honestly, it all boils down to two things, Sakamoto is no Hollywood script writer and 2, it was HIS choice for Samus to give inner reflections/thoughts, regardless of how "obvious" a scene was. He wanted us to KNOW exactly what Samus thought about it.

Deal with it..?

 

[Boney]

I think bad?

 

[etiolate]

He's on his elitist streak again. Make your arguments and/or inquiries as long-winded and wordy as possible, preventing the other person from being able to respond in a satisfactory way, and then bask in the glory as you "win" your argument by virtue of the respondent not bothering to answer.

How you got that out of what I said is a mystery. There's a thousand strawmen of me in this thread.


Boney: Do you? I could not understand why you'd think Other M would mean another Metroid game by TN and not have to do with the mother issue, so I asked. I asked this because I can't understand the game opinion and when trying to get at why that opinion exists I have not been able to acquire an answer with consistent reasoning. So, if I asked for a reason on something as little as your opinion on the title then maybe I could figure out from there the reasoning for the game.

I am trying to see if I am unable to interpret you or if there just isn't reasoning at all and I'm wasting my time.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

When I said excellent cinematography I meant that the way the camera cuts in and out of scenes and pans, sweeps, and zooms. Even still, regardless of cinematogrphy explaining scenes, Sakamoto wanted us to HEAR many of Samus's thought's. Some people (including my brother) dislike most movies that use heavy Narration because, like many of you here, he believes the movie should show rather than tell.

Honestly, it all boils down to two things, Sakamoto is no Hollywood script writer and 2, it was HIS choice for Samus to give inner reflections/thoughts, regardless of how "obvious" a scene was. He wanted us to KNOW exactly what Samus thought about it.

Deal with it..?

I'm surprised the whole thread isn't peppered with this avatar, actually.

 

[Boney]

I'm surprised the whole thread isn't peppered with this avatar, actually.

:lol

that's just too damn civil.

btw hollywood movies/scripts can suck my balls.

 

[Davey Cakes]

So how tough is this game in terms of obtaining 100% of items?

I love trying to get 100% in Metroid games, but all the games seem to be differently difficult when it comes to item locations. Metroid Prime 3 was easy, Metroid Prime 2 wasn't too bad. I was only able to obtain 99% in Metroid Prime, because for the life of me I don't know where the hell the last missile expansion could be, and I've looked everywhere. With Fusion, I just didn't have the patience for finding everything and I gave up. With Zero mission it took a good amount of time, but I was able to successfully search every nook and cranny in that game and find everything.

Right now I'm trying to get 100% in Super Metroid for the first time (even though I've "beaten" the game several times before) and it's probably the toughest Metroid game when it comes to item collection, probably due to the less sophisticated map system. I'm stuck at 93% now and I feel like I've X-Rayed every single pixel in the damn game. I've re-searched all areas except for Norfair/Ridley, but holy crap the idea of searching every nook and cranny of that giant area is just off-putting at this point.

So yeah, I'm a HUGE Metroid fan but in terms of collecting everything, the games for me vary in terms of the effort required to obtain the ol' 100%. What is Other M like in this regard?

 

[victreeb3l]

Some areas are easier than others.

My first play through ended with about 24% item completion so you may miss a whole bunch at first. Some of them are pretty clever while others are really in your face.

 

[MindCollizion]

So how tough is this game in terms of obtaining 100% of items?

I love trying to get 100% in Metroid games, but all the games seem to be differently difficult when it comes to item locations. Metroid Prime 3 was easy, Metroid Prime 2 wasn't too bad. I was only able to obtain 99% in Metroid Prime, because for the life of me I don't know where the hell the last missile expansion could be, and I've looked everywhere. With Fusion, I just didn't have the patience for finding everything and I gave up. With Zero mission it took a good amount of time, but I was able to successfully search every nook and cranny in that game and find everything.

Right now I'm trying to get 100% in Super Metroid for the first time (even though I've "beaten" the game several times before) and it's probably the toughest Metroid game when it comes to item collection, probably due to the less sophisticated map system. I'm stuck at 93% now and I feel like I've X-Rayed every single pixel in the damn game. I've re-searched all areas except for Norfair/Ridley, but holy crap the idea of searching every nook and cranny of that giant area is just off-putting at this point.

So yeah, I'm a HUGE Metroid fan but in terms of collecting everything, the games for me vary in terms of the effort required to obtain the ol' 100%. What is Other M like in this regard?

Not too difficult at all. I beat the game on my first playthrough with 96%, I pretty much know where all the rest of the items are I just have to dedicate myself to go to every remaining blue dot on the map and get the remaining items for 100%.

 

[MarshMellow96]

wah wahhh

No, it is spot on. Tired of the whining in response to what I say. MightyPoo's explanation for his story comments were confused and slightly incoherent. I asked Boney to explain his statement and that explanation sounded confused. People are arguing that they have liked Metroid for its linearity are clearly confused.

If there was a real reasoning behind some of these opinions, wouldn't it have emerged by now? We are still stuck at "I like it because I like it."

It would seem like you were trying to imply that people like MightyPoo or Boney cannot enjoy this game (at least, in your view) because the presentation of their written argument is flawed. Boney said he enjoyed Metroid Fusion for its linearity, did he not? Something that is perfectly understandable, given the context of that particular Metroid game.

Besides, when the inverse argument is stripped down to it's basest, we are also - aside from yourself, of course - still stuck at 'I don't like it because it doesn't resemble something that I liked because I like it'.

You remind me of the child on the playground who calls 'force field'. And as for Rez? Well, he currently seems to be doing a very poor job of impersonating you.

 

[Boney]

It's the easiest of the 2d titles, and on par with the Prime series, just much faster thanks to the way levels are designed. Scratch that, it's probably the easiest one but there are plenty of clever places.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Prime 2 is, by far, the most difficult Metroid for what my opinion's worth.

(And it's better for it.)

I'm just gushing over Echoes at the moment. It has completely hooked me, and it just keeps getting better.

If the first two hours or so were that little bit better, it'd probably be my favourite Gamecube game. It starts very slowly, and not in the good HL2 way, either.

 

[etiolate]

It would seem like you were trying to imply that people like MightyPoo or Boney cannot enjoy this game (at least, in your view) because the presentation of their written argument is flawed.

No. I am saying they keep bringing up opinion as an end all to arguments but do not argue their opinion. They barely have an opinion if it has no reason. They can enjoy the game if they want. People are asking why and how and get attacked in response.

Boney said he enjoyed Metroid Fusion for its linearity, did he not?

Maybe, but I don't think he was the one who said he liked Metroid for its linearity.

Besides, when the inverse argument is stripped down to it's basest, we are also - aside from yourself, of course - still stuck at 'I don't like it because it doesn't resemble something that I liked because I like it'.

You assume too much there.

You remind me of the child on the playground who calls 'force field'. And as for Rez? Well, he currently seems to be doing a very poor job of impersonating you.

wtf are you talking about

and Rez probably wants nothing to do with me

 

[Deleted member 30609]

And as for Rez? Well, he currently seems to be doing a very poor job of impersonating you.

watch yo mouth, son

 

[mantidor]

I'm surprised the whole thread isn't peppered with this avatar, actually.

Likewise. Every post I read (even my own) I just feel like quoting the avatar.

EDIT

Prime 2 is, by far, the most difficult Metroid for what my opinion's worth.

(And it's better for it.)

I'm just gushing over Echoes at the moment. It has completely hooked me, and it just keeps getting better.

If the first two hours or so were that little bit better, it'd probably be my favourite Gamecube game. It starts very slowly, and not in the good HL2 way, either.

I don't care how off topic it is I approve any love Echoes get. The game is awesome and really memorable, I loved every bit of it, just wait until you get to the sanctuary fortress, it's mindblowing! spoiler for the ones who haven't got to the fortress but

Spoiler

the moment a Rezbit hacks your suit, your screen goes crazy and you have to do a "manual reset" of the suit's OS is freaking awesome, simple and short, but awesome

, I really missed those tiny but amazing details in Other M.

The funny thing is, I would put the story on par with Other M, but in Echoes the story is told with an small introduction by A-Mos and some logs, the minimalist approach makes the cliche of the story acceptable and even enjoyable, filling it with cutscenes would have ruined it, (ending spoilers)

Spoiler

we don't get lengthy monologues, but the expression in Samus eyes when she finally beats Dark Samus says everything, the shock that is to kill what is ultimately your own clone is expressed in such simple scene, Dark Samus extending her hand before dissolving is such a bittersweet ending

, really minimalist story ftw, if it was made in Other M style that scene would be cringe inducing.

 

[Boney]

I like both Metroid styles very much, but for what it's worth, Super and Zero Mision are top tier (with ZM on top)
With Fusion, Other M and the original Prime as second tier. The rest are third tier, but I love all of them. Well except Hunters.

you talk about "strawmen" so much in this thread that im finally left with no choice but to ask what that means. im almost 100% sure its an insult, but to what degree?

I guess it comes from the expression "grasping for straws". Meaning you're bad at debating or at reasoning. Not necesarily an insult though.

 

[thecouncil]

How you got that out of what I said is a mystery. There's a thousand strawmen of me in this thread.

you talk about "strawmen" so much in this thread that im finally left with no choice but to ask what that means. im almost 100% sure its an insult, but to what degree?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

you talk about "strawmen" so much in this thread that im finally left with no choice but to ask what that means. im almost 100% sure its an insult, but to what degree?

it implies that other posters are building up false targets or focusing on already built weaker targets and attacking them rather than actually addressing the core issue, but those living in glass houses probably shouldn't be throwing stones.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

you talk about "strawmen" so much in this thread that im finally left with no choice but to ask what that means. im almost 100% sure its an insult, but to what degree?

It's a real concept about arguing but people throw it around almost exclusively on the internet in the hope it makes them seem sophisticated and great debaters.

Like really, have you ever seen the word "meh" used in real life much???

I hope not.

I don't expect anyone to listen to me but come on people, I have proven I didn't think much about this direction of Metroid and I LOVED the Primes(especially the first one, not all the way through 2 and Corruption was very good but dumbed down) and I never thought highly of Team Ninja but while not close to a masterpiece, this is a worthy title in the franchise and not a throwaway game at all.

Other M, surprise of the year!!!!!!

Can you imagine what they could do with an improved sequel??????

 

[jman2050]

you talk about "strawmen" so much in this thread that im finally left with no choice but to ask what that means. im almost 100% sure its an insult, but to what degree?

A straw man is when you attack an argument that your opponent didn't actually make instead of addressing the issues they actually did make.

Of course, typically that usage is reserved for when a person uses it intentionally. When the opponent is incapable of actually articulating their argument in a proper fashion like etiolate then things just go straight to hell.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Can you imagine what they could do with an improved sequel??????

well, yes, it would essentially be Super Metroid with an extra dimension

 

[mantidor]

wow I am either very ignorant of english (it's not my native language) or you people are completely lost. An straw man is an argument in which you greatly exaggerate the opposite of your own view to prove your argument is correct, which just proves you can't defend your own argument normally. For instance in an argument of coke vs pepsi, a coke supporter would say that drinking a million bottles of pepsi would kill you and so coke is better.

edit: and well wikipedia says I'm wrong so there.

 

[SlipperySlope]

It's the easiest of the 2d titles, and on par with the Prime series, just much faster thanks to the way levels are designed. Scratch that, it's probably the easiest one but there are plenty of clever places.

I always found Super Metroid to be really easy. I probably died more in Other M than any Metroid title since 1 (I haven't played the portable titles).

But Metroid 1 is just unfair.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

But Metroid 1 is just unfair.

That's why it's my favorite of the older ones.

Of course it probably is no good now but back then, nothing else was quite like it, I thought it was really interesting.

Super Metroid was more fun but less interesting to me.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

wow I am either very ignorant of english (it's not my native language) or you people are completely lost. An straw man is an argument in which you greatly exaggerate the opposite of your own view to prove your argument is correct, which just proves you can't defend your own argument normally. For instance in an argument of coke vs pepsi, a coke supporter would say that drinking a million bottles of pepsi would kill you and so coke is better.

edit: and well wikipedia says I'm wrong so there.

well, that's right in essence. you've created a weird, lofty target rather than actually attacking the bland-taste and higher sugar content, or something.

Pepsi Max forever

 

[Boney]

I always found Super Metroid to be really easy. I probably died more in Other M than any Metroid title since 1 (I haven't played the portable titles).

But Metroid 1 is just unfair.

Was refering to the item hunt part. In overall difficulty it's still pretty easy, but Hard mode is a great challenge. Not that hard, but fun.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Pepsi Max forever

The commercials for that were terribly voiced and written though.

 

[RagnarokX]

A straw man is when you attack an argument that your opponent didn't actually make instead of addressing the issues they actually did make.

Of course, typically that usage is reserved for when a person uses it intentionally. When the opponent is incapable of actually articulating their argument in a proper fashion like etiolate then things just go straight to hell.

Plus etiolate has been no stranger to using straw men.

 

[SlipperySlope]

That's why it's my favorite of the older ones.

Of course it probably is no good now but back then, nothing else was quite like it, I thought it was really interesting.

Super Metroid was more fun but less interesting to me.

Metroid 1 would be my favorite if you didn't start with 30 health. It really is that simple. The 30 health drops it from the best in the series, to somewhere in the middle.

But that 30... oh how I hate it. The game fucking forces you to camp next to the flyer spawn pods before you can even venture around.

Oh how do I hate thee, 30 health.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Metroid 1 would be my favorite if you didn't start with 30 health. It really is that simple. The 30 health drops it from the best in the series, to somewhere in the middle.

But that 30... oh how I hate it. The game fucking forces you to camp next to the flyer spawn pods before you can even venture around.

Oh how do I hate thee, 30 health.

I will have to play it again to understand this as I forgot about that part, I just thought finding something in those crazy maze-like levels with your weird ass gameplay elements was like nothing else back then.

Other M has a decent difficulty I'd say but is bordering on too easy but not anything that hampers or enhances the game for me.

 

[KevinCow]

I always found Super Metroid to be really easy. I probably died more in Other M than any Metroid title since 1 (I haven't played the portable titles).

But Metroid 1 is just unfair.

I probably died more in Other M than any other Metroid too, but that was more because of bullshit one-hit kills (that fucking elevator, the lava beast that destroys the tunnel) or just not being able to figure out what to do during a timed event (

Spoiler

saving Anthony, the final battle

). Oh, and I died by falling into lava a couple of times because the camera gave me a bad angle of the next jump I was supposed to make and getting out of lava after you fall in is next to impossible thanks to the controls.

As for dying in non-bullshit ways, it was probably about the same as most Metroid games. Once or twice on a few of the tougher boss battles, and I think the only time I died outside of a boss battle was in the enemy gauntlet in the post game.