Backlash against certain elements (linearity in comparison to other Metroid titles)? You can bet your ass there was. Sakamoto wouldn't even be in this kind of position if he learned what was received well in the past few Metroid games and what was not. Specifically in terms of the linearity, Other M goes far beyond what Fusion did.
I don't see the problem in having two different styles of Metroid though. After Fusion Sakamoto clearly showed he could still make a more open Metroid game with Zero Mission. This game is the way it is because it was planned to be this way. He said from the beginning it would be closer to fusion in terms of game design so everyone had time to prepare for it.
Threatening to pull the plug is pretty much blackmailing them. Consider the situation they were in at the time with Itagaki suing and leaving the company, Hayashi getting promoted and them merging with Koei. This wasn't the only issue either, it says several times that Sakamoto was stubborn etc. They even said in those Iwata asks that Sakamoto had everything planned out meticulously and they made the game exactly to his specs. They gloat on that quite a bit. I'm not saying they didn't have any input, but it's clear that it was restricted. After they made it thru that, I'm sure they did feel a lot better as a team and with Hayashi as their leader.
As for N64, the dodging wasn't invented yet, I'll give you that, but a similar camera was in Contra for PS1.
I think you're totally missing the overall picture here. Yes Sakamoto is a hell of a boss, he comes down hard and directly, but it's to create the best product the team can make. Just listen to how the whole piano music tidbit. The idea was to create a Metroid that would only be controlled with a Wii Remote, and explore Samus' thoughts. Those were the only 2 things in which he wouldn't budge because that's the image he had in his mind. Even Iwata asks mentioned that he has trouble conveying these images, so when it doesn't match up with his badly descripted image he's gonna send it back. I really can't know how the whole dynamic went down, but it seems they worked really well together, and not only on Sakamoto's behalf, but the rest of his team fitted really well with Team Ninja apparently.
As for the whole downporting element.. Sure fixed camara's have existed for a long period of time, RE has it, and others have it. But it's handled with such finese here. The only game that comes close is Galaxy 2, and even that lags behind in my opinion (even though it's much more complex and has to handle much more complex stuff, Other M is about it's simplicity. In the end, they could port this game to the NES no problem, but that's not my point.
Then I don't know why you're playing Metroid. There are a thousand linear, story heavy games out there, even some without embarrassingly awful stories. Go play those instead.
When Fusion came out, complaints were nearly identical to those of Other M: It was way too linear, and Samus had far too many unskippable monologues. It almost seemed like Sakamoto had caught on since he did Zero Mission, but here we are.
Boney said:
Slightly off-topic. Whenever someone mentions the term, "Metroidvania", it grinds me a little, because all modern Castlevanias have horribly designed levels. They're fun to play through, but they are incredibly bad designed.
Actually, now that I think about it, Other M's level design really does feel a lot like the Metroidvania Castlevanias. Lots of boring hallways and lots of big, empty, boring rooms. If you took the enemies away, they'd both be extremely boring. Compared to, say, the good Metroid games, which would still be fun to explore even without enemies.
sakamoto takes one of the most basic principles of storytelling - show, don't tell - and violates, warps and distorts it to the point of self-parody. i can't recall the last time i've seen storytelling fail at such a fundamental level. it's not just hokey, it's not just horribly written and forgettable, it isn't storytelling at all. or maybe it is, in a most literal sense. having a character not only spell everything out for you - something that in other m goes beyond even just lazy exposition - but having the character even spell out things that have just been conveyed visually or are in plain sight RIGHT NOW or worse REITERATE another character's dialogue or thoughts almost word for word... is just... baffling. this is writing by retards for retards. CHARACTER BLABBERING NONSENSE OVER BARELY RELATED, MEANINGLESS FOOTAGE: this is sakamoto's idea of storytelling.
and the ending sequence is truly the cherry on top. why don't we let samus destroy every last shred of subtlety and ambiguity in an already half-baked morality tale by giving her a long and embarrasing monologue in which she recounts the TRAGEDY OF HER RECENT PAST HYUCK HYUCK, half-assedly and cringeworthily analyzing and thereby squeezing the life out of every last inane, naive and unremarkable idea in an astonishingly pompous if really just plain stupid script. PUKE.
uhhh, well, you should actually know a lot about why he's playing Metroid... youre immediate next sentence had some of the reasons... come to think of it, why are YOU playing Metroid? :lol
ShockingAlberto said:
Sweet, we've hit the "get out of my fandom" part of the opinion schism.
Then I don't know why you're playing Metroid. There are a thousand linear, story heavy games out there, even some without embarrassingly awful stories. Go play those instead.
Then I don't know why you're playing Metroid. There are a thousand linear, story heavy games out there, even some without embarrassingly awful stories. Go play those instead.
When Fusion came out, complaints were nearly identical to those of Other M: It was way too linear, and Samus had far too many unskippable monologues. It almost seemed like Sakamoto had caught on since he did Zero Mission, but here we are.
Ah so you're one of those fans. Linearity has been in the series since Metroid 2. There are almost as many linear games in the series as there are non-linear games. So to say I should move on to another series just because I like the linear style metroid games is quite ridiculous.
hmmm... you might be into something, japanese is the kind of language that likes to repeat itself over and over, that's why literal translations are so terrible.
EDIT
what!? :lol well no wonder we ended up with this result. Trying to forcing literal translations of japanese can only end badly.
Ehh? I don't think Other M stands for anything and it's just how they decided to name it after moving from Project M. Nothing to do with Other Metroid or the MOM anagram or MB or whatever.
I don't think it's possible to have Metroid have fast paced action while still keeping its relatively non-linear. If there was ever a choice between the two, I'd much rather they go more linear to keep the intensity.
The reason I won't play another game to get my fill is because I want to see Samus Aran doing said cool shit. I like the character and I always wanted the games to go on a more action oriented direction. Corruption was a good start and I hope games post-Other M keep going there as well.
I completed Other M in about 10 hours with a paltry 23% completion on my first time so I obviously thought the items were hidden well. I had a great time finding them all during the post-game. I thought it had an almost perfect balance between action and exploration.
People treat this game like it's FF13 or something.
richisawesome said:
Controls in the game are really good IMO, and I loved how fast paced it is in terms of the overall gameplay. However, the story and dialogue is terrible.
I'm sure we can all agree on this. I didn't mind it though, in a B-movie cheese kinda way, but this definitely is one aspect they have to work harder on in the future.
Controls in the game are really good IMO, and I loved how fast paced it is in terms of the overall gameplay. However, the story and dialogue is terrible.
Ehh? I don't think Other M stands for anything and it's just how they decided to name it after moving from Project M. Nothing to do with Other Metroid or the MOM anagram or MB or whatever.
Ah so you're one of those fans. Linearity has been in the series since Metroid 2. There are almost as many linear games in the series as there are non-linear games. So to say I should move on to another series just because I like the linear style metroid games is quite ridiculous.
Metroid 2? Fuck are you talking about? It was still very open, very much about exploration, and very easy to get lost in. Yeah, it was divided into a few distinct areas as the lava receded more and more, but are you seriously comparing that to Fusion and Other M's "We're going to lock every door except the ones we want you to go through so you don't ever deviate from the path we have set for you" version of linearity?
I just don't understand how you could possibly consider yourself a Metroid fan without being a fan of exploring. If you want action, other games have done that better. If you want story, other games have done that better, too. Saying you'd rather the series head in more of an action and story oriented direction is like going into Halo and saying, "You know what? I really liked driving the warthog, but wasn't really a fan of the shooting. They should make the series about driving from now on."
Ugh, I think I'm starting to understand how Resident Evil pre-4 fans feel. Well, except for the part where RE4 is the highest rated RE game and Other M is the lowest rated Metroid game.
Nuclear Muffin said:
Sakamoto made the right choice with sticking with the Wiimote only.
I mean, okay, it works, but you're completely fucking delusional if you don't think it could have controlled better - or, even crazier, think it would have controlled worse - with an analog stick and a few more buttons.
Metroid 2? Fuck are you talking about? It was still very open, very much about exploration, and very easy to get lost in. Yeah, it was divided into a few distinct areas as the lava receded more and more, but are you seriously comparing that to Fusion and Other M's "We're going to lock every door except the ones we want you to go through so you don't ever deviate from the path we have set for you" version of linearity?
I just don't understand how you could possibly consider yourself a Metroid fan without being a fan of exploring. If you want action, other games have done that better. If you want story, other games have done that better, too. Saying you'd rather the series head in more of an action and story oriented direction is like going into Halo and saying, "You know what? I really liked driving the warthog, but wasn't really a fan of the shooting. They should make the series about driving from now on."
Ugh, I think I'm starting to understand how Resident Evil pre-4 fans feel. Well, except for the part where RE4 is the highest rated RE game and Other M is the lowest rated Metroid game.
I never at any time said I didn't like exploration. All I said is I like the linear style of Metroid. Super Metroid is my favorite game of the series with Fusion right behind it. If you're going to question why I'm a fan of the series just because I like the linear games just as much as the more open games then I'm out of this discussion.
I mean, okay, it works, but you're completely fucking delusional if you don't think it could have controlled better - or, even crazier, think it would have controlled worse - with an analog stick and a few more buttons.
I mean, okay, it works, but you're completely fucking delusional if you don't think it could have controlled better - or, even crazier, think it would have controlled worse - with an analog stick and a few more buttons.
I can see someone making the argument that an analog stick isn't the way to go (although I strongly disagree), but anyone who says more buttons wouldn't be better is...well, yeah, delusional.
ShockingAlberto said:
Sweet, we've hit the "get out of my fandom" part of the opinion schism.
Didn't we get there about 100 pages ago? Speaking for myself, I don't think people who like this (relatively) awful game aren't devoted fans. A lot of them are the most devoted: the kind that will defend anything without question or consideration, convince themselves shit is chocolate, and cry "heretic" to anyone who says it tastes too nutty.
Boney could you explain why you think the title Other M despite being an anagram of mother in a game that features mothers has nothing to do with mother?
To hell with "valid". The question is "good". People who like 3D Mario better may still hate Sunshine. Besides, Other M doesn't fit well into any existing category of Metroid game very well. It needs its own new one: "Poorly conceived, horribly presented and executed with mediocrity".
This is a great game, never thought I'd think that before I played it nor after I played it for a few hours but this is a strong effort and close to being as good as the oldschool games.
I am not finished with it but it's an 8.5-9 game and I thought I'd hate it.
Not sure if how it compares to the Primes but I want another game of this style and that boggles my mind.
To hell with "valid". The question is "good". People who like 3D Mario better may still hate Sunshine. Besides, Other M doesn't fit well into any existing category of Metroid game very well. It needs its own new one: "Poorly conceived, horribly presented and executed with mediocrity".
Some of the items, even when you know where they are, can be tricky to get. There's one in particular that's on a ledge that is actually between Samus and the camera when the camera goes over it. The item just screams "Come get me! I'm more visible than even the character you're controlling! Do it... Kill me! I'm here! Do it now!". Sorry, got a little Predator for a moment. But I had to resort to a FAQ to get it. I woulda just jumped to it if it wasn't for the invisible walls though.
It's kind of a cheap indicator on your first playthrough though since it is impossible to get all the items on playthrough 1. You don't get power bombs until you're in the end-game sequence.
I was glad to see the countdown indicator when I went back into the space ship. It was the first time I've actually died in the countdown sequence in a Metroid game. I got confused in the room with the holes in the floor that take you to the two enemies at the bottom. I thought you were supposed to go down there, and was searching around. I also tried going into the morph ball hole there but couldn't. Then the two enemies killed me.
sakamoto takes one of the most basic principles of storytelling - show, don't tell - and violates, warps and distorts it to the point of self-parody. i can't recall the last time i've seen storytelling fail at such a fundamental level. it's not just hokey, it's not just horribly written and forgettable, it isn't storytelling at all. or maybe it is, in a most literal sense. having a character not only spell everything out for you - something that in other m goes beyond even just lazy exposition - but having the character even spell out things that have just been conveyed visually or are in plain sight RIGHT NOW or worse REITERATE another character's dialogue or thoughts almost word for word... is just... baffling. this is writing by retards for retards. CHARACTER BLABBERING NONSENSE OVER BARELY RELATED, MEANINGLESS FOOTAGE: this is sakamoto's idea of storytelling.
and the ending sequence is truly the cherry on top. why don't we let samus destroy every last shred of subtlety and ambiguity in an already half-baked morality tale by giving her a long and embarrasing monologue in which she recounts the TRAGEDY OF HER RECENT PAST HYUCK HYUCK, half-assedly and cringeworthily analyzing and thereby squeezing the life out of every last inane, naive and unremarkable idea in an astonishingly pompous if really just plain stupid script. PUKE.
While the early scenes were too wordy, it's funny that in the scenes where Sakamoto did show and didn't tell, people reacted with confusion or misinterpretations; namely the
Controls in the game are really good IMO, and I loved how fast paced it is in terms of the overall gameplay. However, the story and dialogue is terrible.
While the early scenes were too wordy, it's funny that in the scenes where Sakamoto did show and didn't tell, people reacted with confusion or misinterpretations; namely the
Boney could you explain why you think the title Other M despite being an anagram of mother in a game that features mothers has nothing to do with mother?
Sure, it doesn't take a literature genious to see MOM, but naming the title after such a poor concieted anagram is just.. well poor. Although at this point, I wouldn't put it past it :lol
The game was developed as project M, and I guess, they just liked the title and moved it as New Metroid.
Leondexter said:
To hell with "valid". The question is "good". People who like 3D Mario better may still hate Sunshine. Besides, Other M doesn't fit well into any existing category of Metroid game very well. It needs its own new one: "Poorly conceived, horribly presented and executed with mediocrity".
Read what I was responding to. He dismisses both Fusion and Other M because they are linear and having more exposition. as for "Poorly conceived, horribly presented and executed with mediocrity" I disagree completely, and I've been over this many times in the thread. Perhaps you didn't have a good setup, which seems to hurt the experience.
Onto controls, I'm the other way round, I can see people wishing for an analog stick, even though the game is designed to move in straight lines. But buttons, aside from switching to FP, it doesn't need anymore buttons.
I think the story is standard fare average videogame stuff, hardly "terrible" but people went into it with that preconceived notion so they have to save face.
As for the dialogue, it's also standard fare and at times, decent.
was sexist and/or didn't make sense for her to react that way after defeating him before. They didn't explain how Samus has PTSD since it was explained in a Japan-only manga.
I think the story is standard fare average videogame stuff, hardly "terrible" but people went into it with that preconceived notion so they have to save face.
As for the dialogue, it's also standard fare and at times, decent.
While the early scenes were too wordy, it's funny that in the scenes where Sakamoto did show and didn't tell, people reacted with confusion or misinterpretations; namely the
So he failed at both telling too much and not showing properly.
You bring up another bad story telling aspect which has nothing to do with translators:
The deleter plot is pushed through the majority of the story and ends up as pretty much a red herring, ultimately meaningless and so forgotten about that players wonder what happened to the deleter. At the one point where you should tell, the retelling of a mystery plot, Sakamoto doesn't. Instead the story goes off about MB and the federation issue is unresolved.
I lost track with all the seriouses but yeah, this is my opinion but to use hyperbole like "terrible" with this story is beyond me because it's average videogame stuff we see in most games that aren't solely focused on story or ones that aren't defined by their stories.
I didn't expect some brilliant story because it's a series defined by the gameplay.
You don't know neither do I that they went into it hearing all the talk and what they read beforehand about the attempts of bringing the characters to life with the notion it was going to be 100% cringeworthy and neither do I but I have my doubts when they use such typical adjectives of exaggeration.
I cringed a few times but most of the story was fine and the dialogue was fine and it didn't make me embarrassed to play the game or for the writers.
I could give a shit about the story though, I just wanted solid gameplay and design and for the most part, I surprisingly got both.
So he failed at both telling too much and not showing properly.
You bring up another bad story telling aspect which has nothing to do with translators:
The deleter plot is pushed through the majority of the story and ends up as pretty much a red herring, ultimately meaningless and so forgotten about that players wonder what happened to the deleter. At the one point where you should tell, the retelling of a mystery plot, Sakamoto doesn't. Instead the story goes off about MB and the federation issue is unresolved.
The Deleter mystery is easily solved with simple deductive reasoning. The reason it wasn't explained through exposition is because only MB and the player saw the scene where the Deleter attacks MB and only the player saw the body thrown into the lava. Samus didn't get enough info to solve and explain the mystery herself.
Sure, it doesn't take a literature genious to see MOM, but naming the title after such a poor concieted anagram is just.. well poor. Although at this point, I wouldn't put it past it :lol
The game was developed as project M, and I guess, they just liked the title and moved it as New Metroid.
The issue is that its made a major tension point and is then dropped. Samus not being able to explain it hasn't stopped her the whole game, I don't see why it would stop her there.
I think the story is standard fare average videogame stuff, hardly "terrible" but people went into it with that preconceived notion so they have to save face.
As for the dialogue, it's also standard fare and at times, decent.
You don't know neither do I that they went into it hearing all the talk and what they read beforehand about the attempts of bringing the characters to life with the notion it was going to be 100% cringeworthy and neither do I but I have my doubts when they use such typical adjectives of exaggeration.
I do know, because I didn't go in with any preconceived notions. I avoided as much info as I could on the game before I beat it, didn't read any impressions of how bad the story apparently was, went in hoping for the best from the game as a whole but expecting the same out of the story that I expect from all games I play - that it will be unmemorable but probably inoffensive and easy to ignore - and I still thought the story was terrible.
There were some potentially interesting plotlines in there. The concept of a traitor? Sure, that could've been neat. Samus's past and her history with Adam? Also could've been interesting - if they'd handled it well. But they didn't handle it well. And here's the thing: you could have the most interesting, intricate story ever, but if you don't write it well, nobody's going to like it. Meanwhile, you could write a story about, oh, I dunno, something mundane like a guy walking to his kitchen to make a sandwich, but if it's written well, it can still be enjoyable. I'd say a good 90% of a story is in its execution. The actual content is far less important.
However, the bullshit with the AI Mother Brain telepathically controlling the Metroids was just some retarded anime nonsense that I can't imagine could have possibly been handled well, and the way they ripped off Fusion's plot twist was just lazy.
Here, I'll flip your assessment around on you: the only way anyone could consider the story anything but bad is if they went into the game with the mindset that it was Metroid, and therefore could do no wrong. Is that fair?
Guys you don't have to attempt to legitimize a terrible story to convince someone you like the game. Just focus on how it got the gameplay right and go from there.
From everybody's favorite source Wikiputyoshitheredia:
An opinion is a subjective statement or thought about an issue or topic, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. An opinion may be supported by an argument, although people may draw opposing opinions from the same set of facts. Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented. However, it can be reasoned that one opinion is better supported by the facts than another by analysing the supporting arguments
All I can get from certain people is an emotional opinion. If people ask you to argue or defend your opinion, don't get mad, don't tell them to chill, don't say "its just opinion". If you can't defend your opinion, which many of you have been unable to do, then stop bringing it up. If you cannot even understand your own opinion or have no consistency to it then stop bringing up "opinion". You are bordering on the edge of opinion, because you have a need to love something without reason. Even my most meaningless opinions have a reason.
