King Chozo
Banned
I'm with you on that one. I'ma still pronounce it zeebs because I like it better, lol.BigAT said:
Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him
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MadOdorMachine
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Missiles would have been usable in 3rd person. They wanted to make a different game, but in the end gave Sakamoto what he wanted. Using them in 1st was a concession they had to make due to the lack of buttons. While I think they learned a lot working with Nintendo, I get the feeling they may not be in a hurry to work with Sakamoto again.mantidor said:
http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/216539/ninja-gaiden-3-confirmed/
Gamepro said:
GregLombardi
Member
So this game is the best Wii game I've played. It is not better than Metroid Prime 1, but in my opinion it is only marginally worse. The game's terrible dialogue and somewhat messy game design are made up for by the awesome gameplay, welcome cinematic change to the Metroid series, and removal of tedious backtracking from the other games in the series.
I say this as someone whose first game was Metroid 1 for the NES, and who has played every single other game. I am embracing the change that this game is bringing, they just need to tighten up the game design and the dialogue for the future and I'll be happy.
I say this as someone whose first game was Metroid 1 for the NES, and who has played every single other game. I am embracing the change that this game is bringing, they just need to tighten up the game design and the dialogue for the future and I'll be happy.
MadOdorMachine said:
There's nothing out there that could lead to the conclusion that they wouldn't want to work with sakamoto anytime soon. In fact in the interviews where they've been asked how they felt about working with him they've said they enjoyed it. Then you that gamepro article where they say after working with Nintendo they feel confident in themselves. I think they'd gladly work with Nintendo again.
GregLombardi
Member
Oh and by the way, in case anyone is wondering -- Yes, I had more fun with this game than with Mario Galaxy 2. Though I'd rate them about equal in my book.
I'm not 100% certain why, but this game kept my attention 100% of the time, whereas Galaxy 2 was amazing but was around 90% of the time (mostly due to the 10 or so really really crappy stars).
I'm not 100% certain why, but this game kept my attention 100% of the time, whereas Galaxy 2 was amazing but was around 90% of the time (mostly due to the 10 or so really really crappy stars).
nincompoop
Banned
Okay now you're just smoking crack, unless you're referring to the inability of the game to fit on a gamecube disc without killing off or heavily scaling back the cutscenes (which would have resulted in a better game anyways).Boney said:
They'd never release a game like this for the GC. (not talking about quality, doesn't matter what you think of it.) The ideas behind it are based on retro boom we've experienced. A return to form, although in this case it's completely trimmed return to form.nincompoop said:
Think man.
victreeb3l
Member
jarosh said:
I didn't think there was anything about the ending that was outright horrible. It's not the best but it's not the worst either. This games story overall is your average video game story or at least that's how I felt about it. I think the post game might wash the bad taste out of your mouth.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Boney said:
The one Resident Evil game that Kamiya directed wasn't very different from the first three Resident Evils (story-wise).
Homeworld's story is one of the few stories in a game I can see making an actually awesome movie, the first game only though.
And Karen Sjet kicks Samus' ass as a character all over easily, and mops the floor with it, no question about it. That makes me really sad, I used to hold Samus as high as Sjet in that regard.
However I can't really think of a bad game story except Other M, not that there aren't plenty because there are, but they are pretty forgettable. The only thing that comes to my mind is RE4 and only because it has been mentioned already.
And Karen Sjet kicks Samus' ass as a character all over easily, and mops the floor with it, no question about it. That makes me really sad, I used to hold Samus as high as Sjet in that regard.
However I can't really think of a bad game story except Other M, not that there aren't plenty because there are, but they are pretty forgettable. The only thing that comes to my mind is RE4 and only because it has been mentioned already.
sakamoto takes one of the most basic principles of storytelling - show, don't tell - and violates, warps and distorts it to the point of self-parody. i can't recall the last time i've seen storytelling fail at such a fundamental level. it's not just hokey, it's not just horribly written and forgettable, it isn't storytelling at all. or maybe it is, in a most literal sense. having a character not only spell everything out for you - something that in other m goes beyond even just lazy exposition - but having the character even spell out things that have just been conveyed visually or are in plain sight RIGHT NOW or worse REITERATE another character's dialogue or thoughts almost word for word... is just... baffling. this is writing by retards for retards. CHARACTER BLABBERING NONSENSE OVER BARELY RELATED, MEANINGLESS FOOTAGE: this is sakamoto's idea of storytelling.
and the ending sequence is truly the cherry on top. why don't we let samus destroy every last shred of subtlety and ambiguity in an already half-baked morality tale by giving her a long and embarrasing monologue in which she recounts the TRAGEDY OF HER RECENT PAST HYUCK HYUCK, half-assedly and cringeworthily analyzing and thereby squeezing the life out of every last inane, naive and unremarkable idea in an astonishingly pompous if really just plain stupid script. PUKE.
and the ending sequence is truly the cherry on top. why don't we let samus destroy every last shred of subtlety and ambiguity in an already half-baked morality tale by giving her a long and embarrasing monologue in which she recounts the TRAGEDY OF HER RECENT PAST HYUCK HYUCK, half-assedly and cringeworthily analyzing and thereby squeezing the life out of every last inane, naive and unremarkable idea in an astonishingly pompous if really just plain stupid script. PUKE.
It is, and it's amazing because of that.Ridley327 said:
As for Other M, I'm dead serious about blaming localization of the game, not because Lord Sakamoto must be defended at every oportunity, but because everything feels unnatural. Dialogue is lousy, voice direction is lousy and the overall story is completely by the books. Sure it has a few interesting tidbits, but for the most part, it's pretty forgettable.
You see the Japanese version unfold, and it's a whole other story. Every line sounds amazing, the voice actress for Samus fits perfectly. And some of our European friends have said that the Spanish subtitles are good, no lines like "confession time" which wouldn't sound out of place in japanese but my god it's absulutely unnatural here.
Boney said:
storytelling is an abstract concept and isn't necessarily tied to dialogue and language. i do believe you when you say that the japanese voice acting and to SOME degree even the writing might be better. but the general idea of what's being said and how that is presented remains the same, despite potentially bad translations and subpar voice acting.
boiled goose
good with gravy
jarosh said:
agree completely. Show dont tell completely out the fucking window. people blaim the voice acting, the problem is the writing...
Boney said:
hmmm... you might be into something, japanese is the kind of language that likes to repeat itself over and over, that's why literal translations are so terrible.
EDIT
heringer said:
what!? :lol well no wonder we ended up with this result. Trying to forcing literal translations of japanese can only end badly.
MadOdorMachine
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Of course they said they enjoyed it. What do you expect them to say? Sakamoto went to them for help and they agreed. When they tried to tell him to use the nun chuck, he threatened to pull the plug on the entire project. That sounds like a positive work environment to me.Kard8p3 said:
All they would have had to do is map the controls to the N64 d-pad and face buttons. When they went into first person, they could have switched to the analog stick for more precise aiming. It doesn't get much more retro than that. The graphics wouldn't have been as good and the story would have to have been toned down, but it very well could have worked.Boney said:
I haven't read that, but I can assume that was the case, seeing as Nintendo, most of the times are really good with localisation. This feels worse than a fandub. And it's not that the actors aren't talented, because they are, I guess the director was very strict with it.
and jarosh, I said that the story is completely by the numbers, "insert plot twist here, emotional drama here, second plot twist here". It's nothing special, and you can see everything coming from a mile away. But you're definately over reacting.
As for show don't tell, I agree that it's a more powerful and sophisticated tool, but a balance between both is desirable. The game inverts that balance, but the animation in each cutscene is outstanding also, the way Samus' eyes move, her body, everything is crafted beautifully. But most of the exposition dumps ruin it.
Now, I have to say, one of my favourite lines, is in the intro section. "A simple report, almost dull, even.. But it felt momentous to me" Especially coming from the mourn of the baby's death..
and jarosh, I said that the story is completely by the numbers, "insert plot twist here, emotional drama here, second plot twist here". It's nothing special, and you can see everything coming from a mile away. But you're definately over reacting.
As for show don't tell, I agree that it's a more powerful and sophisticated tool, but a balance between both is desirable. The game inverts that balance, but the animation in each cutscene is outstanding also, the way Samus' eyes move, her body, everything is crafted beautifully. But most of the exposition dumps ruin it.
Now, I have to say, one of my favourite lines, is in the intro section. "A simple report, almost dull, even.. But it felt momentous to me" Especially coming from the mourn of the baby's death..
One of my biggest gripes with RE5 is that it's never sure about the direction it wants to go in; one minute, you get a dead-serious rumination on the importance of PARTNERS and the next scene has Chris punching a boulder. It honestly feels a lot like a Michael Bay film in that regard.heringer said:Can you say the same of RE5?
MadOdorMachine
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As much as he is to blame, Miyamoto and Iwata are just as much responsible. Someone over Sakamoto should have checked on the game during development and identified the problems. I'm curious what over sight there was over Sakamoto and what role if any Miyamoto had in this game. I just don't see how a game with this many mistakes was launched. They easily could have delayed it until the holidays to fix this stuff. It wouldn't be the first time Nintendo did that.farnham said:
farnham said:
Nah I don't think he should get axed. Based on yesterdays interview it still seems that he knows what he's doing. This is just the direction he wanted to go with this game. It was experiment and he's gotten mixed results. Some people are fine with the story and controls some aren't, and some are in between liking the controls but not the story. Sakamoto has had varying levels of involvement in every metroid game but metroid 2 and hunters and he's made plenty of great games so just because he made one game that isn't loved by everyone is no reason to axe him.
MadOdorMachine said:
Well I'm more inclined to believe them then someone who had nothing to do with the games development at all.
You're getting to hung up on the nunchuck part. It's not that he would've pulled the plug, but that's not the product they were aiming to make. He just wouldn't accept it, because it would've gone in the opposite direction of his pitch. While announcing Ninja Gaiden 3, TN said that these past few years were rough, but working with Nintendo helped them improve their confidence, not to mention the Iwata asks on how all the team understood each other and comunicated a lot. It could all be a load of bs, but I doubt it.MadOdorMachine said:
As for the whole port argument, it's entirely different to downport something that's been made to a system, rather than working from the ground up. All the beautiful camara work, wouldn't have existed, because it hasn't been revised for 15 years. I'd even say that on the GC it would've been the same case thanks to the C-Stick. Sense move, Overblasts and Lethal Strikes are all products of the limitations imposed by the Wii Remote, it wouldn't have worked that way, even 1st person would've been gone I guess in favour of a traditional missile switch system.
This game, is a product of it's time. It couldn't have been created at any other time, even though the theoretical tools are there to make the exact same game on the GC.
EDIT: Repeating myself here. Sakamoto is an excellent scenario writer. Metroid II, Super and Fusion prove this, and in an overview, Other M is as well. When it came to penning down the script, and translating it directly to film, there's where the problem happened. Even when japanese voices are good and natural, even the exposition dumps.
Version 3.0
Member
Boney said:
This is not a "return to form". It's billed as such, true. But in reality, it's more of a departure. It's just over-automated to appear simple.
And there's no reason to think this couldn't have been made in the Gamecube era. They made Jungle Beat, after all.
MadOdorMachine said:
Sakamoto is a big weight at Nintendo, he's practically at the same level as Miyamoto so I don't see this scenario happening at all. The guy is also an incredibly talented developer with a huge catalog to back that up. I'm not trying to excuse the flaws of Other M, but Sakamoto isn't some newbie or anything, all I can see is he learning a lot from this. Team Ninja was very lucky to have worked with him.
Also, none of the flaws of other M make the game unshippable, it was a huge experiment and as any experiment there's the risk of failure, but what it set out to do it does it very well, other thing entirely is what it set out to do is not necessarly something players want.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Threatening to pull the plug is pretty much blackmailing them. Consider the situation they were in at the time with Itagaki suing and leaving the company, Hayashi getting promoted and them merging with Koei. This wasn't the only issue either, it says several times that Sakamoto was stubborn etc. They even said in those Iwata asks that Sakamoto had everything planned out meticulously and they made the game exactly to his specs. They gloat on that quite a bit. I'm not saying they didn't have any input, but it's clear that it was restricted. After they made it thru that, I'm sure they did feel a lot better as a team and with Hayashi as their leader.Boney said:
As for N64, the dodging wasn't invented yet, I'll give you that, but a similar camera was in Contra for PS1.
That's what I meant though, except for the over automated stuff. It's been billed like that, but taking away the fat, in this case, the overworld world. Go play the original Metroid, it's a nausiance if you don't know where you're supposed to go, even Super on a lesser degree, with a much more intelligent level design and map display.Leondexter said:
They took that away, on purpose, and designed it so the world and new abilities flow in a linear fashion. You don't like it because it's "unmetroidy" to you, fine, hope they never do that again and make them more in the style of Super or ZM, great. But it's intentionally and cleverly designed so that you never hit an end of the road and frustrate players, and always using your abilities to progress.
Slightly off-topic. Whenever someone mentions the term, "Metroidvania", it grinds me a little, because all modern Castlevanias have horribly designed levels. They're fun to play through, but they are incredibly bad designed.
edit: so much discussion going on at the same time :S :lol
MadOdorMachine said:
You're not really looking at the whole story though. He wanted to make the game on a 2D plane then Team Ninja suggested making it 3D. He then said if they could show him if a 3D game could work with his control scheme then they'd go that route. They then came up with the amazing controls we got. So in that way the reason the game is the way it is happens to be because Team Ninja and Sakamoto put their ideas together.
Kard8p3 said:
Backlash against Fusion as a whole? No.
Backlash against certain elements (linearity in comparison to other Metroid titles)? You can bet your ass there was. Sakamoto wouldn't even be in this kind of position if he learned what was received well in the past few Metroid games and what was not. Specifically in terms of the linearity, Other M goes far beyond what Fusion did.
The backlash on Fusion comes incredibly stubborn fans. Fusion, in it's own merits is an amazing game, great action, great pacing and incredibly smart moments. One of my favourites on GBA. Stacked upon the rest of the franchise, it's a second tier Metroid (along with Other M), but it has nothing to do with being linear or anything like that, but instead doesn't introduces so many incredible set pieces as Super and ZM.KevinCow said:
Taken at face value, there's nothing to complain about Fusion, except not being Super Metroid enough.
Most definately. But let's not forget that it also made the franchise more accesible for people, similarily to 2d and 3d Mario.MechaX said:
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