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[thepotatoman]

Let us be realistic gentelmen, in terms of narrative veneer it was perhaps clumsy, but in terms of gameplay it made no difference. By moaning about it you display questionable priorities in the way you appreciate this medium.

It is like when people complain about Kratos always losing all of his abillities in the begining. I bet they all know that the games would suck without the nice gradual way the gameplay evolves as you unlock each ability. But despite knowing they choose to moan anyway.

I guess what developers should take away from this is that mechanical contrivances in games are best left unadressed by the narrative veneer. That way fewer people will complain.

I agree with your conclusion, but i think Other M actually made sacrifices in gameplay to fit the narrative. Before upgrades were a reward for killing a gauntlet of enemies, a boss, or a secret passageway. Here they give you the upgrade in order to pass those trials, because it would make even less sense in the already contrived reasoning to give you access after the trial.

Rewards are an integral element of gameplay, and this game decides the cutscenes were good enough of a reward to replace the powerups of the olden days. I don't think many people would agree that the cutscenes were satisfactory rewards.

 

[RagnarokX]

I use it to keep track of posters that I should be wary of, should be wary the opinion of and to monitor posters which may be joke characters.

That's pretty funny coming from you in this thread

 

[Magicpaint]

But what I mean is in MOM, it allows for multiple skill levels to take the game. An enemy can take like 30 seconds if your dodging and shooting, but if you know what you're doing you'll take it down in just 6 to 10 seconds. I really value this take instead of having just different difficulty levels to choose.

I can see where you're coming from in the sense that paying attention to certain skills can make a game's combat system more rewarding, but the problem is that Other M was already easy in the first place so a lot of these mechanics are useless to anyone just willing to go through the game. A game's combat should also be satisfying even if the player isn't using the skill repertoire to its fullest extent.

If Other M had a hard mode that I didn't feel was utterly cheap, like with the Prime games then I would probably have a greater appreciation.

 

[Metroid Killer]

I didn't really find it to be as close to a side-scroller as it should have been, more like a neutered ninja gaiden with voice acting so horrendous it actually rivaled ninja gaiden in that; something which I didn't think was possible.

The vibe I got from Adam for the entire game was that he was a self-righteous asshole, so in my opinion, I label him as such.

No you misunderstood. It was actually supposed to be a side-scroller at some point in the production. Team Ninja talked Sakamoto into creating it in 3D if I remember correctly.

I actually liked the cold demeanor of Adam. I liked the encounter of Samus and the federation platoon, the tension between her and Adam was pretty tense yet he was cool as fuck. My picture of him was kinda ruined when Samus idolized him into some kind of warm father figure.

 

[daedalius]

No you misunderstood. It was actually supposed to be a side-scroller at some point in the production. Team Ninja talked Sakamoto into creating it in 3D if I remember correctly.

I actually liked the cold demeanor of Adam. I liked the encounter of Samus and the federation platoon, the tension between her and Adam was pretty tense yet he was cool as fuck. My picture of him was kinda ruined when Samus idolized him into some kind of warm father figure.

I don't know how you felt any tension with how atrocious the voice acting was, I was halfway laughing every time anyone even spoke. Fml this game was such a let-down to me.

Maybe you played it in Japanese, and the voice-acting wasn't as awful in that.

 

[Version 3.0]

If there´s one aspect of Other M you cannot criticize with a straight face, it´s how well-crafted it was.

It was "well-crafted" in that it apparently turned out just as it was intended to be. I can agree with that. It's not the "crafting" that's bad (assuming you mean the actual construction of the game, ie. programming), it's the design.

Or in short, it's horribly designed but competently programmed.

 

[Boney]

I can see where you're coming from in the sense that paying attention to certain skills can make a game's combat system more rewarding, but the problem is that Other M was already easy in the first place so a lot of these mechanics are useless to anyone just willing to go through the game. A game's combat should also be satisfying even if the player isn't using the skill repertoire to its fullest extent.

If Other M had a hard mode that I didn't feel was utterly cheap, like with the Prime games then I would probably have a greater appreciation.

Would you mind going more in detail regarding Other M's hard mode and why you felt it was cheap?

I managed to beat Ridley and had to return it and haven't beaten it since, but this is exactly where I felt the game turned into an action game. Which I feel in a way it's out of place, but at the same time felt good.

 

[etiolate]

That's pretty funny coming from you in this thread

I pretty much own this thread.

 

[Version 3.0]

I don't think many people would agree that the cutscenes were satisfactory rewards.

Well, they were absolutely gorgeous. The content made me wish my brain had a "delete" function, though.

 

[Magicpaint]

I would have preferred it as a side scroller. I think if it was a side scroller then several issues like the D-Pad controls, first person mechanic, where's waldo & over-the-shoulder segments etc would have possibly been eliminated.

As for Adam I didn't like him. He actually created this big disconnect between me and Samus because she idolised this douchebag that I couldn't stand, so it felt weird having to follow all these ridiculous orders. *shrug*

I had a similar problem, but to a much less extent, with Prime 3.

It was "well-crafted" in that it apparently turned out just as it was intended to be. I can agree with that. It's not the "crafting" that's bad (assuming you mean the actual construction of the game, ie. programming), it's the design.

Or in short, it's horribly designed but competently programmed.

Yeah, this. There are no noticeable bug, or glitches, or the likes, but the actual game design is far from well made.

Would you mind going more in detail regarding Other M's hard mode and why you felt it was cheap?

I managed to beat Ridley and had to return it and haven't beaten it since, but this is exactly where I felt the game turned into an action game. Which I feel in a way it's out of place, but at the same time felt good.

Well completely gimping Samus and thus removing one of the rewarding aspects of Metroid gameplay (upgrades) feels cheap and out of place. It should be there as a hidden bonus challenge or something, not hard mode imo.

 

[Metroid Killer]

I don't know how you felt any tension with how atrocious the voice acting was, I was halfway laughing every time anyone even spoke. Fml this game was such a let-down to me.

Maybe you played it in Japanese, and the voice-acting wasn't as awful in that.

Much like I consider playing through Other M like a roller-coaster ride. Many of the elements of the game felt like rising and dropping in quality to me. Some lines were written and dilvered really nice, but the next scene it would read like some teenagers drama ramblings. This clip where the gif above is from, deals with Adam in pretty nice way. The first glimse of him is this evil stare which makes you doubt if he really is this trusted friend Samus speaks off. And the two lines comping from Adam were good, sounding even better because of the helmet voice

 

[Sennorin]

I didn´t feel like Other M was easy or too easy. Normal enemies were as tough as in the Prime-games, whil bosses were...actually harder. No, not harder, but better desigend (Yes, yes, Quadraxis is fantastic, we know that). Whereas Prime´s bosses are mostly "shoot a billion times at its weak point", Other M really challenges your reflexes and skills, in that Samus can only take a very small amount of hits before dying. In return, bosses also have less health than in the Prime-games, which makes it less an endurance test, and much more a true, intense fight. I guess you could criticize that Other M got easier towards the ends, though I liked that, too, since it gave you a feeling of accomplishment after having gained access to all those upgrades.

Really, if there´s any part of Other M that I truly loved, it´s its combat.

It was "well-crafted" in that it apparently turned out just as it was intended to be. I can agree with that. It's not the "crafting" that's bad (assuming you mean the actual construction of the game, ie. programming), it's the design.

A reasonable posting, I can understand that. Even though I disagree.

Sense dodge felt cheap. Switching to first person was clunky. Where's Waldo was infuriating.

I have a straight face.

Sense doge felt great. Switching to first person was smooth and worked 100% of the time. Where´s Waldo was dumb, but such a tiny, short portion of the game that anyone mentioning it as one of Other M´s faults comes off as a troll. See, I that´s how I feel. But unlike you, I´m not trying to tell everyone how shit that game I didn´t like is for *everyone*.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

But unlike you, I´m not trying to tell everyone how shit that game I didn´t like is for *everyone*.

I've said several times in this thread that I like the game.

You're not paying attention.

I'm only pointing out what I don't like and how I feel the game isn't on par with the Prime titles.

Unlike you, I'm not looking at imaginary-GAF.

 

[thepotatoman]

You know this whole "what to do about the loss of powerups between sequels" thing is beginning to remind me a whole lot about the "what to do about the red shirted extras being the only people that die" thing that Star Trek used to deal with. They were both used as easy jokes people liked to latch onto as very obvious contrivances that just had to be used in order to reach the desired emotion.

The Star Trek writers took these minor criticisms very seriously and killed off a main character, Tasha Yar, by the monster of the week in the first season of Next Generation. This turned out to be way worse then just letting an extra die. Fans felt the time invested to develop that character was wasted after killing her off so unceremoniously, and the writers couldn't waste to much TV time on the death of that character, because a sad memorial episode wasn't what they wanted to do. So, after that the writers learned that the notion that the main characters were invincible is just find to leave be, because the alternative is far worse.

So long story short, don't worry to much about widely acknowledged conventions, because the audience is generally used to it enough that they aren't bothered by it, while they will be bothered if you begin to sacrifice other things in order to fix that convention.

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

I agree with your conclusion, but i think Other M actually made sacrifices in gameplay to fit the narrative. Before upgrades were a reward for killing a gauntlet of enemies, a boss, or a secret passageway. Here they give you the upgrade in order to pass those trials, because it would make even less sense in the already contrived reasoning to give you access after the trial.

Rewards are an integral element of gameplay, and this game decides the cutscenes were good enough of a reward to replace the powerups of the olden days. I don't think many people would agree that the cutscenes were satisfactory rewards.

Well, there is certainly something to be said for the importance of psychology in game design.

 

[Acerac]

I don´t care about 2D-Metroids. Please tell me where the Prime-games were non-linear. The answer: They weren´t.

Oh yeah, the Prime games were for the most part linear.

That's not what you asked though. You asked why we thought Metroid games should be non-linear, and the answer is because every Metroid game I played for the first 15 years of my life was non-linear. Absurdly so. So nonlinear that people have gotten the impression that the second one is linear, despite being more wide open than nearly any other game boy game that exists, solely because it isn't as open as the first or third.

Funny that you don't care about 2d Metroids, because considering the direction the series is taking I don't care about 3d Metroids. Hell, until the series returns to its roots I don't care much about it at all.

 

[SaintMadeOfPlaster]

Woah, wait.

There are some people who think this game is as good as the Prime games?

 

[Acerac]

Woah, wait.

There are some people who think this game is as good as the Prime games?

Better than some of the Prime games.

They also don't care about 2d metroids.

I'm not sure how that works, exactly.

 

[Ushojax]

It's obviously got some major problems but I enjoyed the game. The dialogue was total garbage (and typically expository for a Japanese game) as was Samus' character, but the game was smooth to play and I thought it captured the Metroid feel even if it lacked some of the design hallmarks. Probably the worst console Metroid game but still decent.

I did get an uncomfortable sense while playing the game that Sakamoto has become a bit of a creep with respect to his 'creation', the treatment Samus received felt almost incestuous on his part. These games were never about Samus as a person and if he had wanted to change that, he picked just about the worst development partner he could in Team Ninja. I hope the next game, if they insist on fleshing out Samus, does it more like Fusion and less like Other M.

 

[Ledsen]

I think we should ban Other M from being discussed on the forum. It has not only spawned the worst Metroid game in existence, but also the worst GAF thread in existence.

 

[Sennorin]

Better than some of the Prime games.

I'm not sure how that works, exactly.

So hard to accept different opinions? k

 

[KevinCow]

Oh yeah, the Prime games were for the most part linear.

I don't think it's very fair to call them linear just because you can't sequence break. Yes, the sequence breaking makes the games that allow it far more open, but the series became popular for its openness before sequence breaking became such a big thing. Even if you're collecting power-ups in a predetermined order, you're not necessarily following a predetermined path.

The Prime games still let you explore at your leisure and collect minor pickups like energy tanks and missile expansions between major pickups. They're not anywhere near the linearity of Other M, with its arbitrarily locking doors to funnel you into the next area. Not even Corruption.

 

[Acerac]

So hard to accept different opinions? k

I like how you've not responded to a single point I've brought up when discussing the topic with you and just made snarky remarks. Bravo.

Good job on editing out the line of my reply that made what I said make sense though. Fox news would be proud of your selective quoting.

I don't think it's very fair to call them linear just because you can't sequence break. Yes, the sequence breaking makes the games that allow it far more open, but the series became popular for its openness before sequence breaking became such a big thing. Even if you're collecting power-ups in a predetermined order, you're not necessarily following a predetermined path.

The Prime games still let you explore at your leisure and collect minor pickups like energy tanks and missile expansions between major pickups. They're not anywhere near the linearity of Other M, with its arbitrarily locking doors to funnel you into the next area. Not even Corruption.

You're right. The first Prime was quite open, and despite the limitations on what could be done when, calling it linear as big of disservice as calling Metroid 2 linear. The second Prime with the dark worms just really left a bad taste in my mouth. Every time I thought I could pull off a neat shortcut they were there blocking my way. It really killed my interest in the game, and ultimately the series.

 

[Rocket Punch]

Did Nintendo ever release a disc without that game breaking bug the original had?

I might pick up the $10 game at Future Shop if it's a revision.

 

[Boney]

Did Nintendo ever release a disc without that game breaking bug the original had?

I might pick up the $10 game at Future Shop if it's a revision.

I'm pretty sure the second print was fixed. Problem is, I don't think the print was too big seeing it bombed hard and all. So it's up in the air if you get a fixed version.

I got the glitched and it sucked. Thankfully I copied my brother's file that was like 3 hours in so it wasn't that bad, but it was frustrating when I didn't know it was a glitch. Do you know how the glitch is caused at least? Because if you know, you shouldn't worry that much at least if you do get a glitched version.

 

[HK-47]

Unfortunately this is our future, and in many ways our present. I don't know when it happened, but "shoot aliens" or "slice up the bad guys" isn't enough of a story to build a game on anymore, even though this is the story of most of the best games of all time.

Oh piss off. If you are gonna have a pretense of a story, it should be better than utter shit or dont waste my time.

 

[[Nintex]]

Why do people keep bumping this... I want to forget, I really want to forget but it keeps haunting me. Maybe I should burn my copy of the game or something.

 

[Rocket Punch]

Oh piss off. If you are gonna have a pretense of a story, it should be better than utter shit or dont waste my time.

 

[Boney]

Why do people keep bumping this... I want to forget, I really want to forget but it keeps haunting me. Maybe I should burn my copy of the game or something.

Well LTTP thread usually gather much more attention so I think it's for the best.

 

[[Nintex]]

Well LTTP thread usually gather much more attention so I think it's for the best.

That's true maybe I should just ignore this thread but the problem is everytime it pops up I'm like: "Well maybe I should give it another go, see if it's really as bad as I remember because I can't even remember half the story."

but some things are best left forgotten and burried.

 

[revolverjgw]

Funny seeing this bumped, I just started it today. I waited a long time because from the moment this game was announced at E3 to a inexplicably rapturous response, I was thinking how amazingly bad a decision it was to get Team Ninja doing a Metroid game. And yeah it's a mess.

Weird game. Kind of fun and atmospheric, but man, the controls are so inelegant. With my setup, the first-person stuff is very uncomfortable and downright unpredictable. When I point at the screen, all I can do is hope it will register, and if it does, I have to hope Samus won't be starting at the worst possible area and I can get her looking where I want before a giant monster runs me over. I'd feel far more comfortable and confident using this mode if I had a classic controller.

Also feels so far like I can just mash the d-pad and nothing can hit me. I don't have to put any timing into it, or thought about which direction would be the best strategic choice, because she'll dodge anything anytime as long as I'm mashing some direction.

The less said about the story presentation, the better. It's just... the worst. The worst.

Somehow, I still like it so far. Just wanting to see what the next room or area is keeps me going, I guess. But judged against other Metroid games, the drop in quality here is jarring.

 

[Alexios]

When I point at the screen, all I can do is hope it will register, and if it does, I have to hope Samus won't be starting at the worst possible area and I can get her looking where I want before a giant monster runs me over. I'd feel far more comfortable and confident using this mode if I had a classic controller.

Weird, never had any issues with that, it was smooth, instant and reliable in my experience, I liked the extra layer it gave the combat.

 

[Neon_Icarus]

Weird, never had any issues with that, it was smooth, instant and reliable in my experience, I liked the extra layer it gave the combat.

Yeah, it worked fine for me too. Maybe some people are sitting too close to the sensor bar?

 

[revolverjgw]

Yeah, it worked fine for me too. Maybe some people are sitting too close to the sensor bar?

Like I said, it's probably related to my setup. My TV is like 2 feet away and I can't comfortably make much space between it and me. I'm not about to rearrange my room just to play this game annoyance-free.

It's a problem with many Wii games, but this one in particular because of the constant switching and the fast pace of the action.

 

[SecretMoblin]

Like I said, it's probably related to my setup. My TV is like 2 feet away and I can't comfortably make much space between it and me. I'm not about to rearrange my room just to play this game annoyance-free.

Sorry to hear. The first-person missile stuff actually works really well if you have the space for it. The game gives you enough time to get into position.

 

[dwu8991]

There's so much potential with this game.

 

[mantidor]

I had no problems either, but the use of rockets drastically changed from previous entries, so I see people having problems. I never really used them outside boss battles (which made the boss to pause for a moment when it was needed), or for solving puzzles.

For regular battles it makes no sense to use them, even if they can give you some advantage the advantage is lost in the time it takes to change the view point, finishing moves are much easier to use in those situations.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Like I said, it's probably related to my setup. My TV is like 2 feet away and I can't comfortably make much space between it and me. I'm not about to rearrange my room just to play this game annoyance-free.

It's a problem with many Wii games, but this one in particular because of the constant switching and the fast pace of the action.

I had a similar problem with switching to first person. It's one of the most peculiar mechanics I've experienced, and I'm sure I'd feel the same about it even if it worked perfectly for me. The dpad dodging is questionable at best, broken at worst.

The game is bizarre, mostly because of the storytelling, but the gameplay contributes significantly.

 

[Princess Skittles]

There's so much potential with this game.

I agree. They need to follow it up with something with less (or no) cutscenes and some carefully designed non-linearity.

Kind of like how we got Fusion and then Zero Mission.

 

[TunaLover]

I'm replaying the game on hard, last night I beat Ferrocrusher, man... I can't feel my thumbs now, it was spamming evade moves all the time.
It's getting really hard at this point, I wonder if I could survive the next one =P

 

[rblaa]

I got as far as Ridley in hard mode. I consider that enough of an achievement, and didn't have the energy to go any further.

That was some of the best gameplay I had ever encountered, playing in almost a fugue state at times. Hard mode redeemed the game for me in a lot of ways, and really showed how the controls could be brilliant and Samus a godlike ninja bad-ass.

 

[DragonGirl]

It's finally posted. My long promised and long delayed looking back article for Other M. As is usual for my Metroid series posts, it's a long read, so set aside a little time before you dive in.

 

[Boney]

you know, your hologram point has been criminally underdiscussed

*continues reading*

wait my dyslexia attacks again

 

[D.Lo]

It's finally posted. My long promised and long delayed looking back article for Other M. As is usual for my Metroid series posts, it's a long read, so set aside a little time before you dive in.

Good read.

Yeah such a shame. It's still a pretty good game and had some fresh ideas, and looked pretty slick too. But a universe and character design that great should be treated with more respect.

Dare I say it - a more western take. The failures of Other M's story are basiacally that it became like modern anime.

Goddamit Retro really nailed it didn't they? Give them Metroid forever.

 

[DragonGirl]

Good read.

Yeah such a shame. It's still a pretty good game and had some fresh ideas, and looked pretty slick too. But a universe and character design that great should be treated with more respect.

Dare I say it - a more western take. The failures of Other M's story are basiacally that it became like modern anime.

Goddamit Retro really nailed it didn't they? Give them Metroid forever.

As much as I love anime, I'd have to agree with you, there's definitely a shallow immaturity to the story the way it's presented here.

There are a lot of things that could be done to fix the story, but if I could choose only one, I'd change the relationship between Samus and Adam.

As is, they have a static relationship of distrust and resentment on Adam's part and...well, Samus appears utterly neutral on the outside but sounds like a complete groupie on the inside.

How fascinating it would have been if the resentment had been mutual and played out as a mutual antagonism between them. A relationship that developed a true character arc of both parties learning something from each other as they confronted each other over their past. Adam perhaps accepting his kneejerk rejection of Samus over her leaving his command as unfair and unwarrented. Samus perhaps accepting the need for cold decision making in a crisis. All this ultimately developing into a renewed mutual respect, ending with Samus realizing and accepting the necessity of Adam's sacrifice. Far better than what we got, with Adam bullying his way into a contrived martyrdom and no one growing beyond what they were at the start.

 

[Green Mamba]

One of the bigger storyline gaffes that no one seems to remember:

--Samus finds a creature that looks like it was killed by a Metroid, but it is in the cold area and she specifically notes that Metroids can't tolerate cold temperatures, clearly setting up the unfreezable Metroids. This scene is not in Sector Zero.
--Adam sacrifices himself to destroy Sector Zero to kill the undefeatable unfreezable Metroids that were already alluded to.

--So what about the unfreezable Metroids not in Sector Zero that the earlier scene strongly alludes to? Adam's sacrifice is rendered completely meaningless because Sakamoto doesn't seem to understand how foreshadowing actually works.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

One of the bigger storyline gaffes that no one seems to remember:

--Samus finds a creature that looks like it was killed by a Metroid, but it is in the cold area and she specifically notes that Metroids can't tolerate cold temperatures, clearly setting up the unfreezable Metroids. This scene is not in Sector Zero.
--Adam sacrifices himself to destroy Sector Zero to kill the undefeatable unfreezable Metroids that were already alluded to.

--So what about the unfreezable Metroids not in Sector Zero that the earlier scene strongly alludes to? Adam's sacrifice is rendered completely meaningless because Sakamoto doesn't seem to understand how foreshadowing actually works.

I was so dissapointed by Sector Zero. I thought, holy crap this is when the game will get amazing. Then it just sort of ends shortly after the last Adam/Samus scene.

 

[Kontergurke]

One of the bigger storyline gaffes that no one seems to remember:

--Samus finds a creature that looks like it was killed by a Metroid, but it is in the cold area and she specifically notes that Metroids can't tolerate cold temperatures, clearly setting up the unfreezable Metroids. This scene is not in Sector Zero.
--Adam sacrifices himself to destroy Sector Zero to kill the undefeatable unfreezable Metroids that were already alluded to.

--So what about the unfreezable Metroids not in Sector Zero that the earlier scene strongly alludes to? Adam's sacrifice is rendered completely meaningless because Sakamoto doesn't seem to understand how foreshadowing actually works.

Like most inconsistencies in the game, the most likely official answer would be "Sakamoto forgot about it".
I guess you could argue that the ufreezable Metroids were only sent to Sector 2 for short periods of time for testing purposes. And luckily, all of them were in Sector 0 when Adam destroyed it (or were they!?). Not sure how Adam would have known that, though.

The unfreezable Metroid subplot was totally stupid and out of place anyway. If they could already alter the Metroid DNA, why did they revert to just breeding regular Metroids by the time of Fusion?


@DragonGirl: Nice article. It was an interesting read. I totally agree on the missing context for the Ridley scene.

There should have been at least two flashbacks in this game:
Her colony getting destroyed by Ridley and the pirates when she was young,
and her growing up with the Chozo on Zebes.

 

[Pathetic Basement Virgin]

My Wii wouldn't play this game is anyone else having this problem? i can't wait to play this.

 

[Kontergurke]

My Wii wouldn't play this game is anyone else having this problem? i can't wait to play this.

The game is on a dual-layered dvd, like Smash Bros.
Some (older) Wiis have trouble with those. Sometimes the lens-cleaning kit helps. If not, you'll have to send your console to customer support.