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[Robin64]

When I beat Prime on the Gamecube I didn't bother doing all the scanning. Now that I'm trying to 100% the trilogy, though, I'm scanning everything. Only the logged scans count towards your percentage, right? I've been stressing myself out scanning every single thing and it's quite distracting.

Watch out for the missable stuff.

 

[Grief.exe]

I really don't mind the lower res graphics buy why the black bars? Isn't the game originally 16:9 anyway? Why not go fullscreen?

Prime 1/2 render in 4:3, that is why you see the hud is smaller than the entire render window horizontally. Through widescreen hacks and culling codes were are able to get full 16:9.

As for the black bars, I think that is merely a screenshot issue. I will get those ironed out eventually.

 

[Madao]

Prime 1/2 render in 4:3, that is why you see the hud is smaller than the entire render window horizontally. Through widescreen hacks and culling codes were are able to get full 16:9.

As for the black bars, I think that is merely a screenshot issue. I will get those ironed out eventually.

they're overscan. the originals had them around the edges but are only seen in TVs and equipment that allow 1:1 pixel mapping.
on the TVs around when the games came out, those bars were hidden by most TVs.

 

[C.Olimar788]

Watch out for the missable stuff.

...dammit, I missed the Aqua Drones. And here I thought I was being careful to grab every missable scan...

Ah well. Trilogy is nice and lets you carry over your scans to a new game, so I'll grab them another time when I inevitably play through on hard mode

Spoiler

with the Fusion Suit.

 

[reelbigtink]

Watch out for the missable stuff.

Well darn. I missed a few of those. I'm only a couple of hours in, though, so I might as well restart.

STRESS

 

[Megasoum]

Prime 1/2 render in 4:3, that is why you see the hud is smaller than the entire render window horizontally. Through widescreen hacks and culling codes were are able to get full 16:9.

As for the black bars, I think that is merely a screenshot issue. I will get those ironed out eventually.

Hum?

I'm talking about the fact that there's a black box all around the game when playing on my WiiU.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

I'm trying to buy! The eShop won't load!!!


...
I got in a few minutes ago - just when I was about to post this -; I clicked on the deal, clicked on buy, then it kept on loading and loading, repeating the eShop music over and over again, now the whole thing crashed, can't even close the app.

Man...

 

[Madao]

Hum?

I'm talking about the fact that there's a black box all around the game when playing on my WiiU.

that's on almost every Wii game. it wasn't shown on an actual Wii because most TVs hide that due to how they handle SD content.

you can see them with capture cards and now when playing on Wii mode on Wii U since the TV treats this as a HD signal due to HDMI and Wii U's upscaling.

 

[Joey Ravn]

Hum?

I'm talking about the fact that there's a black box all around the game when playing on my WiiU.

That's because the game is upscaled from 480p. Those black bars are there to fill in the screen. If your TV/monitor has an overscan option, you can turn it on and it will get rid of those black bars.

 

[Rich!]

That's because the game is upscaled from 480p. Those black bars are there to fill in the screen. If your TV/monitor has an overscan option, you can turn it on and it will get rid of those black bars.

But don't do that. It compromises image quality.

Overscan is rightly a thing of the past. Fuck it.

 

[Madao]

That's because the game is upscaled from 480p. Those black bars are there to fill in the screen. If your TV/monitor has an overscan option, you can turn it on and it will get rid of those black bars.

it's not due to that. those bars exist on Wii too. they're there because the games are rendered like that.

 

[Fandangox]

I have had no issue playing games off-tv, but due to how I have everything set up and since I have to stay at reasonable distance to use the wiimotes, I have to squint or get closer to read the scans or most other text :I

 

[Verger]

While I do understand that Echoes is a very divisive game and I can see why you'd come to this kind of conclusion on the game, I feel somehow obligated to talk about a lot of these things. (Note that I'm not particularly trying to convert you as much as give context for why a lot of people hold it in high esteem for the same reasons you dislike the game.) The environment for the dark world was supposed to inspire feelings of dread and claustrophobia. The dark world isn't a place you want to be in. Everything you are told in game whether directly or indirectly through logs and cut scenes during the early segment prepares you for the reality that, despite Aether's homecoming banner reading "Welcome to Aether, now get the fuck off our planet", you will have to traverse every nook and cranny of this planet and that included an area that would be toxic to simply exist in. For someone first playing the game, it's a real fight against your own nerves to enter Dark Aether properly, let alone persevere through it all. The thing about this is, it's probably one of the best realizations of a situation in gaming where you have to bite the bullet and come to grips with what is in front of you. Retro succeeded in creating a truly hostile and almost player hating environment. For someone like me, who went into the Metroid series with Echoes thinking it was equally about trekking through dense labyrinthine locales as it is traveling with a constant sense of "curated dread", Echoes was a masterpiece and its overall visual design does support my thoughts even now, 11 years after its release.

While I do agree that the overuse of dark purples and reds in Dark Aether's color palette was to the detriment of having potently and immediately iconic areas or visuals within that dimension (unless you're a nut like me), I feel as though the visual design of the architecture in the dark world was excellently executed for the mood and atmosphere they wanted to give the players. The contortion/degradation/defacing of things prominent in the Light Aether version of certain rooms, the constant use of segmented worm like bodies, squishy organic material, gigantic multi-schlera panels invoking eyes all about the world and parasitic creature husks for the Ing structures, and the warped skies giving way to massive dark lightning storms just created a vision of an Edritch high level abomination where you were thoroughly unsettled between the combination of stationary and moving sights. Aurally, the dark world's chopping and sampling of the light world's main themes with a deeper guttural bass imposed over them liberally preyed on your familiarity with the more tame Light Aether over world. The imposed thumps in these tracks emulated the familiarity of heart beats and acted as an aural reminder that there were un-quantifiable "things" going bump in the dark all about you. If that wasn't enough, the shrieks and cries of the dominant living race ringing about in the far distance of most areas of Dark Aether only served to intensify the feeling you have of wanting to come up for a breath of fresh air after being submerged in Dark Aether's murky density.

The biggest reason why I will defend Echoes to the death in its use of the dark world trope though is due to the immediate and dramatic feeling of player empowerment as you gain the power ups through the course of the game and start realizing you can take more risks, you can last much longer, you can hit things harder, and you can travel further faster. There is an exponential curve on how powerful and flexible Samus gets in this particular game and the Dark World acts as both a check on this power and a taunt to the player. "Do you think you can overcome your nerves and step out into this segment of the world as you are?" You see your armor melting off and amorphous crab-tick-flea things three times your size running about on fourth dimensional plains all about and the first reaction is "fuck no", but when you get that first taste of disintegrating these creatures with blasts of light/super missiles/other satisfying weaponry, or you realize that the life restoring safe zones are structured in a certain way/you can manage your health reserves better and you revise and optimize your runs through the dark world despite losing chunks of health which later become trivial loss which even later on becomes a zero net loss, or suddenly things which are visible to your eye but seemingly beyond your ability to interact with are now easily turned on their head or dispatched with molten death, the infinite cold of space, or annihilation, it just becomes a greater impetus to see just how far you can trudge through this hostility and master the elements. Trips from the Dark World become less necessary evils and genuine tests of how far you can push back the world that pushes down on you.

As a final note, the idea of a dark world isn't a bad thing despite its overuse in games, Nintendo or otherwise. It's all about the execution and for both the time period and the feeling it was meant to invoke (a suffocating tension that gradually gives way to a feeling of complete mastery of domain), Echoes is a master stroke example of the trope used correctly.

Quoting for greatness! I would put it in the OT but it's kind of large and the OT itself is already pretty big and probably intimidating to a lot of people.

You described exactly what I had been thinking about Dark Aether but couldn't put into an eloquent paragraph as you did. The fact that Retro probably was also taking into account memory/space limitation of the Gamecube when designing the world makes it doubly impressive. While I'm sure had they access to more space storage they may have added many more different objects to give more subtle uniqueness to each area of Dark Aether, I think they did such a great job with what they wanted to accomplish.


On the Black Bars, they haven't really been noticeable to me. And my TV isn't the largest out there (though it isn't the smallest) and I've had no trouble reading text. The game still looks very sharp and the only blurriness I see is in the Scan Visor which is enlarging the pixels in its reticle.

 

[Joey Ravn]

But don't do that. It compromises image quality.

Overscan is rightly a thing of the past. Fuck it.

Definitely. But some people would rather take the hit in quality than play with black bars. I don't care about them, but at least there's the option for those who do.

it's not due to that. those bars exist on Wii too. they're there because the games are rendered like that.

Oh, those black bars. I thought Megasoum was talking about the black bars that the Wii U produces in Wii mode. I honestly didn't even remember that MPT rendered the game like that, since the in-game black bars blend with the black bars introduced by the Wii U itself.

 

[Lynd7]

Definitely. But some people would rather take the hit in quality than play with black bars. I don't care about them, but at least there's the option for those who do.



Oh, those black bars. I thought Megasoum was talking about the black bars that the Wii U produces in Wii mode. I honestly didn't even remember that MPT rendered the game like that, since the in-game black bars blend with the black bars introduced by the Wii U itself.

Yeah last night I was going back and forth between screen fit and 16:9. I don't think the little bit of scaling is bad really. Wii games would scale to full screen anyway on the actual system. Or by putting the Wii U into 480p res.

 

[Socreges]

Well darn. I missed a few of those. I'm only a couple of hours in, though, so I might as well restart.

STRESS

What do you get for scanning everything? Kudos? The respect of your peers? Mission: Metroid Dread?

 

[Discomurf]

Yeah it does that on my tv also - annoying. I suggest turning down the opacity on all the HUDs ...the game looks much better this way IMO since the overlays really look jaggy when uprrezed.

 

[Mega Man's Electric Sheep]

I actually really liked Echoes, but it is the only Prime game I never finished, because I didn't feel like doing the fetch quest at the end of the game required to access the final area. I'm sure 1 and 3 had a similar restriction, but somehow I didn't mind it in those games.

 

[ivysaur12]

I'm planning on playing all 3 with no guide. Never beat Echoes (got stuck in the Torvus Bog when I was like, 15? When did it come out? 2005?), so it's been pretty crazy. I'm still on Prime. I definitely feel more connected to the world when I'm doing exploring on my own versus listening to a guide of where to go next.

 

[Prototype]

Making my way thru echoes, man talk about labyrinthine.

 

[TheMoon]

I have had no issue playing games off-tv, but due to how I have everything set up and since I have to stay at reasonable distance to use the wiimotes, I have to squint or get closer to read the scans or most other text :I

Put your sensor bar or set of candles on the floor below the table (be safe if using candles lol), point at that instead of using the gamepad sensor bar, plays like a pc mouse, lets you sit closer to the gamepad.

 

[Christine]

Echoes's fetch quest is a little bit repetitious with all the little trips in and out of Dark Aether. Still, I'm glad it's there, it gives you an excuse to stomp around the place in your demigod suit.

 

[K' Dash]

Echoes's fetch quest is a little bit repetitious with all the little trips in and out of Dark Aether. Still, I'm glad it's there, it gives you an excuse to stomp around the place in your demigod suit.

This.

I just went everywhere in revenge mode

 

[mantidor]

I'm planning on playing all 3 with no guide. Never beat Echoes (got stuck in the Torvus Bog when I was like, 15? When did it come out? 2005?), so it's been pretty crazy. I'm still on Prime. I definitely feel more connected to the world when I'm doing exploring on my own versus listening to a guide of where to go next.

Even if you get stuck the hint system on the game is good enough to keep you on track.

 

[Azure J]

Making my way thru echoes, man talk about labyrinthine.

The complexity is just so fucking good. That game is Metroid at its purest form just from looking around and realizing how much you could and probably will wind up doing in any given room. Sanctuary Fortress is like a Lego play set on crack with all of its grapple points, spider ball tracks laid out like someone was painting the area in magnetic strips and the large vistas scattered all about.

This.

I just went everywhere in revenge mode

Man, that feel when you

Spoiler

first re-enter the Dark World with the based suit™ and start spamming annihilator beam blasts at everything ever...

So_good.gif

 

[JimboJones]

What do you get for scanning everything? Kudos? The respect of your peers? Mission: Metroid Dread?

I think you get an extended ending sequence or something. Was never something I thought was worth the effort trying to get 100%.

 

[Lynd7]

I think you get an extended ending sequence or something. Was never something I thought was worth the effort trying to get 100%.

When the game first came out I didn't know about the one time only scans. That was so annoying, I had 90 something percent.

 

[Madao]

ok, this black bars nonsense is annoying me. i went and grabbed some raw images from trilogy on both Wii U and a Wii and look at what is shown:

metroid prime GC on Wii:

mp1 trilogy on Wii:

mp1 trilogy on Wii U (eshop):

mp2 trilogy on Wii:

mp2 trilogy on Wii U (eshop):

Wii Menu

Wii menu in Wii U (vWii):

Wii shots are 720x480 because that's what the wii outputs regardless of widescreen settings.
Wii U was set to 1080p.

as you can see, Wii stuff is upscaled on Wii U as-is. no additional black bars or weird shenanigans added in the process. Wii games on Wii U are shown exactly the same as on Wii and have no extra things added to them. the black bars seem to be thicker on Wii but it's the same black bars in both.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

I think you get an extended ending sequence or something. Was never something I thought was worth the effort trying to get 100%.

You only get concept art. The extended ending sequence is for 100% item collection, which you can't be locked out of.

 

[Exuro]

Just got to the omega pirate boss and got destroyed by those bombs. This is the first boss that's actually been challenging/killed me. Took a while to figure wtf I needed to do to hurt him as well.

 

[Iolo]

But don't do that. It compromises image quality.

Overscan is rightly a thing of the past. Fuck it.

There's no noticeable difference on my plasma. I'd rather have it fill the screen.

 

[reelbigtink]

What do you get for scanning everything? Kudos? The respect of your peers? Mission: Metroid Dread?

Why do you 100% anything? A sense of personal satisfaction.

 

[steveovig]

I'm getting far in MP1 and I'm surprised at how much of this game I remember from its release. Currently, I'm stuck after finding the second artifact. I think I need to find the fire weapon to advance and I might just use a guide to get a clue where it's at.

 

[Irony Strikes]

Every time I try to start MP1 it freezes on the loading screen? Anybody else having this or have a solution?

 

[Hyoukokun]

Just made it to the

Spoiler

Phazon Mines

in MP1 and got my first game over to a normal enemy. They ramp up the difficulty a bit there!

I'm surprised by how well the game holds up visually. I think it's the level design - everything has a hand-crafted feel. I guess I've played too many current-gen games that are happy to use the same assets and brushes all over the place.

 

[C.Olimar788]

I'm getting far in MP1 and I'm surprised at how much of this game I remember from its release. Currently, I'm stuck after finding the second artifact. I think I need to find the fire weapon to advance and I might just use a guide to get a clue where it's at.

I recommend just continuing to look around - if you stumble about for too long the game will point you in the direction of the next upgrade.

 

[Mistle]

ok, this black bars nonsense is annoying me. i went and grabbed some raw images from trilogy on both Wii U and a Wii and look at what is shown:



Wii shots are 720x480 because that's what the wii outputs regardless of widescreen settings.
Wii U was set to 1080p.

as you can see, Wii stuff is upscaled on Wii U as-is. no additional black bars or weird shenanigans added in the process. Wii games on Wii U are shown exactly the same as on Wii and have no extra things added to them. the black bars seem to be thicker on Wii but it's the same black bars in both.

edit: misread, don't worry!
--
and yeah, i always thought the wii version also had black bars. it was weird people were saying it's a Wii U thing. Seems like people had their TVs with overscan ON back in the Wii days.

 

[thegreatchamp]

Every time I try to start MP1 it freezes on the loading screen? Anybody else having this or have a solution?

I had this problem. I switched the external HDD that was connected to it and its worked flawless since then. I first deleted the game and redownloaded it to see if it was merely a corrupted file, but no it wasn't.

 

[Socreges]

Why do you 100% anything? A sense of personal satisfaction.

If getting to that 100% is onerous/tedious, it's not worth it for me.

 

[MichaelFassbender]

That bullshit with the bees was bullshit. Why did they include that? Do they hate you, and love bees?

 

[SirNinja]

Echoes's fetch quest is a little bit repetitious with all the little trips in and out of Dark Aether. Still, I'm glad it's there, it gives you an excuse to stomp around the place in your demigod suit.

Not to mention the Annihilator Beam. Dark Aether is a cakewalk when you can

Spoiler

make safezones that lure enemies inside to their instant death

.

 

[Ahnez]

Just made it to the

Spoiler

Phazon Mines

in MP1 and got my first game over to a normal enemy. They ramp up the difficulty a bit there!

I'm surprised by how well the game holds up visually. I think it's the level design - everything has a hand-crafted feel. I guess I've played too many current-gen games that are happy to use the same assets and brushes all over the place.

Yep,

Spoiler

Phazon Mines

is a notorious difficulty spike

 

[Lynd7]

edit: misread, don't worry!
--
and yeah, i always thought the wii version also had black bars. it was weird people were saying it's a Wii U thing. Seems like people had their TVs with overscan ON back in the Wii days.

My current TV won't let 480p sources use screen-fit. It only lets you use 16:9, or some of the other modes like 4:3 and zoom. I gather many TV's don't let you view Wii etc without overscan.

 

[Throwaway123456789]

For all my endless love of the MP games, even back in 2002 I felt it was kind of lame how the fogging up inside the visor was just the same pattern cloned/inverted four times. Any reasons/speculations as to why they did it that way?

 

[Madao]

edit: misread, don't worry!
--
and yeah, i always thought the wii version also had black bars. it was weird people were saying it's a Wii U thing. Seems like people had their TVs with overscan ON back in the Wii days.

i don't think it's people's fault entirely. with SD content, most TVs won't let you change overscan. for these pics, the black bars wren't visible on my TV while i took them and the option to show the full picture was greyed out. it can only be selected with HD sources.

My current TV won't let 480p sources use screen-fit. It only lets you use 16:9, or some of the other modes like 4:3 and zoom. I gather many TV's don't let you view Wii etc without overscan.

i have the same issue (i guess it's a Samsung too)

the only way i can see the black bars on my TV from the Wii is when using devices like the Framemeister.

 

[TheMoon]

For all my endless love of the MP games, even back in 2002 I felt it was kind of lame how the fogging up inside the visor was just the same pattern cloned/inverted four times. Any reasons/speculations as to why they did it that way?

Easiest way to get it done with the resources available?

 

[vasametropolis]

I just bought the trilogy and I've never played any of the games. Too early for impressions, but just had to say, "Fuck the Wii remote."

Worst input method of all time. Reminds me of Skyward Sword rage again... what if I want to lie down? :/.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

Interesting undocumented trick in MP1 that I didn't see mentioned elsewhere: the spring ball mechanic from MP3 (shake the Wiimote to jump) now works here as well. It makes certain collectibles that require the double bomb jump much easier.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

I just bought the trilogy and I've never played any of the games. Too early for impressions, but just had to say, "Fuck the Wii remote."

Worst input method of all time. Reminds me of Skyward Sword rage again... what if I want to lie down? :/.

I'm pretty sure the Sega Activator was the worst input method of all time.

The Wiimote has its faults, but it's at least perfectly functional.

 

[Shawsie64]

Enjoying this so far! Never played when came out so not being held by the hand is very different compared to my current gaming brain conditioning of linearity.. Just got the

Spoiler

space jump boots

in MP1 and don't know where to go now..