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[The Xtortionist]

I feel like the complaints apply more to Armature, since they have put out an original game, and it kinda sorta sucked, despite being a can't-miss premise. They've had some rotten luck since getting started, but Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate doesn't even remotely feel like something that was handled by the guy in charge of all three Prime games. I dunno; I think other posters are onto something with the studio culture at Retro being impossible to duplicate, even amongst the leads. I don't know what Nintendo did when they purged the studio back in 2001, but it stuck.

Yeah. At this point I'm convinced that you could suddenly replace half the existing staff with random people off the street, give the studio a terrible IP, and somehow it would still be amazing. A bit of an exaggeration for sure, but that's how confident I am in Retro. Nintendo has a great thing in that studio; hopefully both parties keep doing what they're doing for a long time.

 

[Peru]

A 3D Metroid on Wii U would be much more of a commercially appealing title than Metroid Prime on Wii - Corruption could've been a classic and still an SD FPS was very unlikely to appeal in the HD generation, much harder sell than an SD platformer, rpg, party game, etc. On Wii U it will be sold with shiny HD screenshots and demos and Retro's famous attention to detail and design. Sure the install base on Wii U isn't great, but they're buying big titles, big titles are charting, and an AAA FPS/FPA with a lush, interconnected world should IMO lead to better sales than MP3. Just stick to the series' strengths - one big world, exploration, no cutscene / story filler.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Nice list. I'm rested now so i'd like to detail my thoughts a bit more. I guess I should say that these rankings are based on a combination of things - design, boss fights, presentation, memorable moments, etc

*yet more list*

That's all for now. Not feeling super up to writing about Corruption right now. Maybe later.

That delicious Sanctuary Fortress summary among others, mmm hmmm.
Oddly I was reading this to the Sonic Adventure links you dropped in the Soundtrack thread.

 

[radcliff]

The studio culture is strong there, as if there is some unseen spirit present at all times inspiring everyone who works within their walls to do awesome things!

Kensuke Tennabe?

 

[superNESjoe]

I don't think anyone expected them to do a racing game ever again, but here we are, and we've got half of Mario Kart 7 with their name on it. I think they're a hell of a lot more versatile than they get credit for.

Retro worked on some course and character design for MK7. I think it's a bit much to say they contributed half the work.

Though I agree, they are a very versatile studio. They are the best hope for a modern Rare for Nintendo.

 

[TheMoon]

Kensuke Tennabe?

Tanabe and Kelbaugh surely do keep the Nintendo philosophies alive, no matter who joins or leaves Retro. They've been at this for a long time.

 

[The Xtortionist]

That delicious Sanctuary Fortress summary among others, mmm hmmm.
Oddly I was reading this to the Sonic Adventure links you dropped in the Soundtrack thread.

I'd be facinated to learn about the design process for Sanctuary Fortress (among other areas). Like, I honestly have no idea how people can come up with something that complex and sophisticated and actually have it make sense and be, well...good. And that was 10 years ago...are other devs even trying?

Edit-to give some credit where it's due, Demon's Souls puts in some decent work with 3-1. Still, nothing else really calls out to me.

 

[K' Dash]

I'm about to revisit Sanctuary Fortress, can't wait to fight Quadraxis again

 

[TedMilk]

I bought a gamecube just to play prime. I would do the same for the wiiu or any console for that matter. These games are worth their weight in gold

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Kensuke Tennabe?

I think he definitely deserves a lot of credit, along with the folk who have been there since Prime/Echoes.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

I'd be facinated to learn about the design process for Sanctuary Fortress (among other areas). Like, I honestly have no idea how people can come up with something that complex and sophisticated and actually have it make sense and be, well...good. And that was 10 years ago...are other devs even trying?

Edit-to give some credit where it's due, Demon's Souls puts in some decent work with 3-1. Still, nothing else really calls out to me.

That's the thing that absolutely SUCKS. We get to hear so little from them about their creative process. It was a crime against nature that they stopped doing the Iwata Asks right before Tropical Freeze was released.

Retro worked on some course and character design for MK7. I think it's a bit much to say they contributed half the work.

Though I agree, they are a very versatile studio. They are the best hope for a modern Rare for Nintendo.

Not really. According to the Iwata Asks, it was a total collaboration. They STARTED with the old courses but also contributed to the new ones as well. Also, there are far more people from Retro in the staff credits than there are from EAD. According to the credits Retro handled most of the design, animation, and art, while EAD handled most of the engineering.

 

[Dimmle]

This Trilogy re-release was a touch of evil. Now I have to gird myself for the likely disappointment of not hearing the words "Retro" and "Metroid" in conjunction at E3.

 

[Thunderstorm910]

Anybody else getting really tired arms pointing the Wiimote at the screen when playing the Prime Triology? I don't know if I've lost my "wii muscles" or something, could just be me.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

This Trilogy re-release was a touch of evil. Now I have to gird myself for the likely disappointment of not hearing the words "Retro" and "Metroid" in conjunction at E3.

Judging by Retro's announcement history, we probably won't be hearing from them at all this E3.

Anybody else getting really tired arms pointing the Wiimote at the screen when playing the Prime Triology? I don't know if I've lost my "wii muscles" or something, could just be me.

Rest your arms on your thighs. All you need to move is your wrists.

 

[TheMoon]

Anybody else getting really tired arms pointing the Wiimote at the screen when playing the Prime Triology? I don't know if I've lost my "wii muscles" or something, could just be me.

You're doing it wrong. Put your sensor bar somewhere else. Remember that you don't need to move your arms at all.

 

[CarlieCaplin]

Hey Gaf! Hoping for a quick answer:

I'm about to jump in (Prime 1) for the first time.
My question: Normal or Veteran Mode?

Sorry if this has been asked several times!

 

[shadyspace]

Hey Gaf! Hoping for a quick answer:

I'm about to jump in (Prime 1) for the first time.
My question: Normal or Veteran Mode?

Sorry if this has been asked several times!

Veteran.

 

[CarlieCaplin]

Veteran.

Ok. Thanks!

Now, let's see if all this Hype is justified!

 

[chaosblade]

Hey Gaf! Hoping for a quick answer:

I'm about to jump in (Prime 1) for the first time.
My question: Normal or Veteran Mode?

Sorry if this has been asked several times!

To expand on this, but Veteran is the "normal" difficulty from the Gamecube version. Trilogy's Normal mode is a new, easier mode. Hypermode (which you unlock after beating the game) is the equivalent to the "hard" difficulty on Gamecube.

 

[Verger]

And again when playing Prime 1 or 2, disable Lock-on Free Aim mode in the controls since those games were designed for lock-on and trying to shoot free aim with most enemies will be quite difficult and challenging (unless you're in to that).

I'm at 97% item collection in Prime 1 and am looking for the last items. I suppose I'll check out some maps if my memory keeps failing me as to where I missed stuff. Almost ready for Prime 2

 

[Daniel Jackson]

And again when playing Prime 1 or 2, disable Lock-on Free Aim mode in the controls since those games were designed for lock-on and trying to shoot free aim with most enemies will be quite difficult and challenging (unless you're in to that).

I'm at 97% item collection in Prime 1 and am looking for the last items. I suppose I'll check out some maps if my memory keeps failing me as to where I missed stuff. Almost ready for Prime 2

When selecting a difficulty, I chose Normal - not knowing it was actually a new easy mode. To sort of compensate for that, I keep Lock-on Free Aim turned on.

 

[Prototype]

So playing through Corruption for the second time with the trilogy and actually using hyper mode this time. I kind of ignored the mechanic the first time I played it.

Wow, what a difference it makes. You just decimate everything in your path and it makes you feel like a total badass.

I'm enjoying 3 even more than I did the first time.

 

[CarlieCaplin]

To expand on this, but Veteran is the "normal" difficulty from the Gamecube version. Trilogy's Normal mode is a new, easier mode. Hypermode (which you unlock after beating the game) is the equivalent to the "hard" difficulty on Gamecube.

OK that's good to know! Is it the same with Prime 2?

And again when playing Prime 1 or 2, disable Lock-on Free Aim mode in the controls since those games were designed for lock-on and trying to shoot free aim with most enemies will be quite difficult and challenging (unless you're in to that).

I'm going to change this as well. So far I wasn't feeling the motion controls at all. I definitely need to get used to it. I had trouble with the button layout, too, especially with the "-"-button.

 

[Waylon Drums]

I forgot how frustrating these games can be when I can't figure out where to go. :-/

 

[Christine]

I'm at 97% item collection in Prime 1 and am looking for the last items. I suppose I'll check out some maps if my memory keeps failing me as to where I missed stuff. Almost ready for Prime 2

One of them's in

Spoiler

Watery Hall

. I'd bet on it.

So playing through Corruption for the second time with the trilogy and actually using hyper mode this time. I kind of ignored the mechanic the first time I played it.

Wow, what a difference it makes. You just decimate everything in your path and it makes you feel like a total badass.

I'm enjoying 3 even more than I did the first time.

I'm near the beginning of Echoes right now, and I think it's going to remain my favorite, but I am really looking forward to hitting Corruption again.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

So playing through Corruption for the second time with the trilogy and actually using hyper mode this time. I kind of ignored the mechanic the first time I played it.

Wow, what a difference it makes. You just decimate everything in your path and it makes you feel like a total badass.

I'm enjoying 3 even more than I did the first time.

Interesting. I hardly ever used hyper mode the one and only time I've played Corruption. Will be sure to use it next time.

 

[shadyspace]

Hyper Mode makes the game piss easy.

 

[Gravidee]

So playing through Corruption for the second time with the trilogy and actually using hyper mode this time. I kind of ignored the mechanic the first time I played it.

Wow, what a difference it makes. You just decimate everything in your path and it makes you feel like a total badass.

I'm enjoying 3 even more than I did the first time.

I don't understand how you could have ignored it the first time around. Seems like it was pretty much essential for destroying tougher enemies and exploiting some weaknesses.

 

[Daniel Jackson]

I forgot how frustrating these games can be when I can't figure out where to go. :-/

That's what I love about these games. Being stuck for hours, then finally finding a new path. I wil never use walkthroughs.

 

[The Xtortionist]

That's the thing that absolutely SUCKS. We get to hear so little from them about their creative process. It was a crime against nature that they stopped doing the Iwata Asks right before Tropical Freeze was released.

Now I'm imagining a two-part Iwata Asks, part 1 focusing on design with Retro staff + Tanabe and part 2 focusing on music with Wise and Yamamoto + his sound team. Would have been too good mang...

 

[ChamplooJones]

Made it to Phendrana Drifts. I could just stay put and let the music play because it's so good.

 

[Mak]

That's the thing that absolutely SUCKS. We get to hear so little from them about their creative process. It was a crime against nature that they stopped doing the Iwata Asks right before Tropical Freeze was released.

Now I'm imagining a two-part Iwata Asks, part 1 focusing on design with Retro staff + Tanabe and part 2 focusing on music with Wise and Yamamoto + his sound team. Would have been too good mang...

Here's a bunch of interviews for the Metroid Prime series.

Metroid Prime staff interview - NOM
http://www.metroid-database.com/features/primeinterview.php

Metroid Prime 1 Level Artist, Prime 2 Character Artist LeRoy Strauss
http://www.samus.co.uk/mprime/interview_intro.shtml

Metroid Prime 2 E3 2004 interview - IGN
http://www.ign.com/articles/2004/05/12/e3-2004-metroid-prime-2-interview

Metroid Prime 2 interview - IGN
http://www.ign.com/articles/2004/10/13/metroid-prime-2-echoes-interview

Metroid Prime 2 Kensuke Tanabe interview - Nintendo World Report
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/2181/kensuke-tanabe-talks-metroid-prime-2-echoes

Iwata Asks: Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
http://www.metroid-database.com/mp3/Iwata_Asks_Metroid_Prime_3_index.php

Metroid Prime 3 interview with Kenji Yamato and Retro Studios - OSV
http://www.originalsoundversion.com...uption-with-kenji-yamamoto-and-retro-studios/

Metroid Prime 3 interview - Nintendo World Report
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/11594/metroid-prime-3-corruption-e3-interview

Metroid Prime 3 - MTV
http://www.mtv.com/news/1570214/met...shed-wii-graphics-and-that-famous-controller/

Metroid Prime 3 - G4
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/678854/developer-interviews-metroid-prime-3/

Metroid Prime 3 Hyper mode - Silconeria/NOE
http://www.siliconera.com/2009/10/11/an-explanation-for-metroid-prime-3s-pointless-hyper-mode/

Metroid Prime Trilogy - Producer Kensuke Tanabe interview
http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Wii/Metroid-Prime-Trilogy-282035.html#Official_Website

Metroid Prime team interview (Metroid Prime Trilogy) - Kotaku
http://kotaku.com/5363971/metroid-prime-team-discusses-their-decade-of-samus-ponders-series-future

Metroid Prime Trilogy: Developer's Voice - NOA
http://youtu.be/UPs_D1BMhjc
http://www.metroid.com/primetrilogy/#/media

Retro Studios tour - IGN
http://youtu.be/0a962z4jmDs

 

[ivysaur12]

I just started Echoes, and I forgot how challenging this game was. It's the only one I've never beaten, so I'm excited, but nervous. I think I got stuck in the Torvus Bog last time.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Here's a bunch of interviews for the Metroid Prime series.

Awesome, thanks.

 

[Lathentar]

That's the thing that absolutely SUCKS. We get to hear so little from them about their creative process. It was a crime against nature that they stopped doing the Iwata Asks right before Tropical Freeze was released.

Yeah, it stinks. Lots of great stories to tell!

 

[Dusk Soldier]

I don't understand how you could have ignored it the first time around. Seems like it was pretty much essential for destroying tougher enemies and exploiting some weaknesses.

There's two types of players:

i. players that use hypermode only when necessary.

ii. players that use hypermode vs everybody.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Level design in particular is fascinating to me because it seems like the design process is so non-linear. Like let's say we're dealing with a platformer that only has blocks and pits to jump over. When designing a level, do you go pit-block-pit, or block-pit-pit, or block-pit-block, etc... How does one decide which design is best? And that's boiling the potential components down to a bare minimum. Working with a palette like in Retro's Prime or DKC games...I can't fathom it. It's an art, that's for sure.

 

[Lathentar]

Level design in particular is fascinating to me because it seems like the design process is so non-linear. Like let's say we're dealing with a platformer that only has blocks and pits to jump over. When designing a level, do you go pit-block-pit, or block-pit-pit, or block-pit-block, etc... How does one decide which design is best? And that's boiling the potential components down to a bare minimum. Working with a palette like in Retro's Prime or DKC games...I can't fathom it. It's an art, that's for sure.

In DKC games, basically every level started with a theme or a gimmick. The rest is basically knowledge of what works and doesn't combined with LOTS of iteration. The designers at Retro are extremely creative and talented, and they complement each other very well.

 

[Prototype]

I don't understand how you could have ignored it the first time around. Seems like it was pretty much essential for destroying tougher enemies and exploiting some weaknesses.

Ya, if you don't use it, some enemies and bosses will take longer to defeat.

Now though... It's like I look forward to every encounter because I get to enter hypermode, And feel that "pop" where the screen warps and it feels like phazon is being pumped directly into my veins and I lay waste to everything around me.

It's addicting...

 

[The Xtortionist]

In DKC games, basically every level started with a theme or a gimmick. The rest is basically knowledge of what works and doesn't combined with LOTS of iteration. The designers at Retro are extremely creative and talented, and they complement each other very well.

I guess I'm going at it from the most micro standpoint. So for Tropical Freeze's Windmill Hills for example, the gimmick of rotating windmills is consistent, but the actual potential for level design is still very broad. Before DK jumps on the first windmill, I'm sure there's the question of how long the starting platform should be. After the first windmill, should there be a platform and then a second windmill, or a second windmill and then a platform? What about three windmills in a row, or two platforms in a row after the first windmill? You guys always pull off excellent designs, but I suppose that I don't really understand how those conclusions are reached when the range of possible options is so broad. Is it more a matter of designing all of the above combinations, for example, and playtesting them to see what people gravitate to, or is it a bit more scientific than that?

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Yeah, it stinks. Lots of great stories to tell!

I bet! If only we could do a "GAF Asks Lanthentar" .

 

[Lathentar]

I guess I'm going at it from the most micro standpoint. So for Tropical Freeze's Windmill Hills for example, the gimmick of rotating windmills is consistent, but the actual potential for level design is still very broad. Before DK jumps on the first windmill, I'm sure there's the question of how long the starting platform should be. After the first windmill, should there be a platform and then a second windmill, or a second windmill and then a platform? What about three windmills in a row, or two platforms in a row after the first windmill? You guys always pull off excellent designs, but I suppose that I don't really understand how those conclusions are reached when the range of possible options is so broad. Is it more a matter of designing all of the above combinations, for example, and playtesting them to see what people gravitate to, or is it a bit more scientific than that?

There usually is no best in design. You try different things relying on your past knowledge and iterate. The more you can iterate, the better it will get. Usually getting outside feedback works as well to tighten up the experience and they might point out things you missed.

I think you're imagining a scientific approach/fun metric that isn't there other than in the eye of the designer. Is it fun and have good flow, then move on to the next part.

 

[Kjellson]

My brother wanted to borrow my Wii U and I made the decide stupid decision to let him. I want to start with Corruption NOW!

 

[The Xtortionist]

There usually is no best in design. You try different things relying on your past knowledge and iterate. The more you can iterate, the better it will get. Usually getting outside feedback works as well to tighten up the experience and they might point out things you missed.

I think you're imagining a scientific approach/fun metric that isn't there other than in the eye of the designer. Is it fun and have good flow, then move on to the next part.

True - I tend to approach things from a scientific/quantitative point of view (not a developer, just in general). I'm digging into this subject a bit because while I feel that the bolded statement is probably acceptable for most games, Retro's level design is so impressive to me that I almost have to think there's some deeper method involved. But from what you're saying, it's pure artistry on the part of the designers, so I guess all I can really say at this point is "damn, you guys and gals are talented".

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Verger]

I do wonder what Team Retro thought of Other M, especially in their own personal opinions which they'd never divulge.

 

[Haines]

So I need you guys to ease my worries.

When prime 1 was pretty release I never spent so much time being excited for a game. I played it and loved it.

I got into Xbox live or something and never bothered with echos after hearing it wasn't as good by most.

Picked up corruption and wasn't blown away and didn't play much.

I'm replaying prime 1 now..just got the double jump. Oh and also just beat super metroid again just prior.

I am absolutely in love with metroid right now and as I watch everyone Be upset we haven't seen an inkling of a new one...I have the other 2 I can still play!!

So tldr is...how do the next 2 games..that is echos and corruption stack up to super and prime?

Should I be extremely excited as I am or maybe just happy to have some more metroid but I'm already playing the best.

Oh and can someone explain how prime looks so fucking good? I don't recall another game standing test of time so well...maybe wind waker too

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Q: How big is the MP2 development team?

Kensuke Tanabe: About the same as last -- 40 people.

Incredible...

 

[Gravidee]

There's two types of players:

i. players that use hypermode only when necessary.

ii. players that use hypermode vs everybody.

I used it in between those two categories.

 

[The Xtortionist]

So tldr is...how do the next 2 games..that is echos and corruption stack up to super and prime?

Should I be extremely excited as I am or maybe just happy to have some more metroid but I'm already playing the best.

Any of the three Prime games could be your favorite for different reasons. Prime 1 has the most interconnections in its world and is a very balanced experience. Prime 2 is the most challenging and the moodiest of the three. Prime 3 plays the best and has the greatest collection of boss fights imo (though Echoes' best are the series' best - they just aren't as plentiful).

In any case, you won't be disappointed.

Q: How big is the MP2 development team?

Kensuke Tanabe: About the same as last -- 40 people.

Incredible...

 

[Grief.exe]

So tldr is...how do the next 2 games..that is echos and corruption stack up to super and prime?

Should I be extremely excited as I am or maybe just happy to have some more metroid but I'm already playing the best.

I'm about a third of the way first experience with Prime 2 right now. It probably won't be as good as Prime 1 or Super Metroid, which are the pinnacles of the series, but it is more of the same and I don't think that is a bad thing.

Several people in this thread have said that Prime 2 only got better with age. The game didn't seem as good when it first released, but while playing again years later they have enjoyed it significantly more.

Oh and can someone explain how prime looks so fucking good? I don't recall another game standing test of time so well...maybe wind waker too

I'm of an opinion that games of that era will always look good and be playable.