TheMoon
Member
I don't see a scenario in which he could've downloaded a brand new eShop release in 2015 without installing any system update since 2013.
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Metroid Prime Trilogy WiiU |OT| - Samus it Ever Was. Now with Ridleyculous low price!
- Thread starter Verger
- Start date
I don't see a scenario in which he could've downloaded a brand new eShop release in 2015 without installing any system update since 2013.
MixedBeverage
Member
This camera discussion made me realize that not once, ever, during my playthroughs of these three games did I notice the camera. To me, that truly illustrates the achievement. It worked so perfectly that it just became transparent.
Some people in this thread are dusting off the disc copy, it was an outside chance but I can't think of anything else to suggest.
CrichtonKicks
Member
It plays into making The Dark World a hostile environment. Once you have the Dark Suit I think they hit a good balance- you need to be concious of your energy level and ammo counts but it doesn't deter from exploration.
This is my first time playing through MP2 (played MP1 to the Omega Pirate on release and beat MP3 on release) and, having played to the start of Sanctuary Fortress, I think it's better than Prime 1 in just about every way. And I just replayed Prime 1 immediately prior. The level design is far more interesting and intricate, the combat is more diverse and improved a bit, puzzles are better, bosses are WAY better, and a I think the lore and story are much more fleshed out. Absolutely loving it.
TheMoon
Member
Ah, hm disc copy. Fair enough.
I'm sure it was rolled in with other stuff but yeah, originally the Wii mode did not support DPL II and now it does.
As obvious as this suggestion may seem, did you set the TV Audio output to Surround in the Wii U settings?
This guy gets it, Echoes took Prime and just made it better and more challenging, Prime gets the kudos for being the Original, taking all the risks and making the fundations for the next games.
Yep to both. The Wii U is fully up to date, and Surround is set. Surround works fine in Wii U games.
Maybe it's there in Prime and I just wasn't paying attention, dunno.
The Xtortionist
Member
Are there any other game sequels like Echoes? Sequels that are seemingly designed solely for the hardcore fans of the previous game who probably beat it over and over and found it too easy?
probably majora's mask
I started MP2 immediately after beating MP1 (and I'm pretty sure I must have played through Prime 1 back just before Prime 2 released initially) and I actually think I agree. Even the initial "hub" area of the Temple Grounds is much more complex and connected than the Tallon Overworld. I especially liked how it implemented the initial Galactic Federation outpost as its own area within the overall grounds.
I also like the unique areas and they look far more "Alien" than the original Prime. I can see how some may not notice all the details in the technology and so forth and only notice the overall "brown" aesthetic of the Temple Grounds and then Agon Wastes, but if you look closely you'l see just how different it is. I actually noticed that in some rooms of the Temple Grounds you have the GFS tech alongside the Aether tech and you can see the differences.
But yeah, it's actually a more refined experience since they could focus on just building a brand new world and creating new complex designs.
I took over the camera system after his passing and modified it for the two DKC games. While a lot of the specific parts of the camera system weren't used, the foundation carried on and I feel that I improved it and took it in a direction he would be happy with. However, there are few people in the world as dedicated as he was.
Not gonna happen. Even if I was stupid enough to talk about that it would be all second hand stories as I started toward the end of Prime 3.
If reviews do not mention the camera, it means you did your job well. Cameras should be as transparent as possible.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Man these games hold up incredibly well. I'm about halfway through MP and it's just as atmospheric and great as I remember. The one thing I think isn't needed is the motion controls. They work fine and I'm relatively proficient with them but I don't think they add anything over a standard control method.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Remember that Prime 1 and 2 weren't dual analog, you couldn't move and aim at the same time. You could get efficient enough with it that it didn't matter (plus, the games were designed with that limitation in mind) but being able to does make the motion controls pretty nice.
You lose out on the fast and easy beam/visor switching though, which is a shame but only matters on a few occasions.
Eh it's not that slower than the traditional controller scheme. It's not a great loss for all the benefits IMO.
Jumping with the morph ball feels good with motion, and it's not as if there would be other means to do it with buttons, which are already all used IIRC.
you get used to the overscan, the game will swallow you and you won't care, lol.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Holy shit if it's true Echoes was basically developed in six months by 40 people. I can barely even comprehend that notion. I remember hearing that it was said that the game was about 20% complete by E3 2004, but I figured they were just struggling with development. If they really were just getting started at that point then that is just insane.
So you were responsible for the dynamic camera in TF? Fantastic job!
So you were responsible for the dynamic camera in TF? Fantastic job!
playing through mp3 after finishing 1 and 2 and i just got to the part in
and this is the best mp by far.
the bosses are much better than prime 2 and 1 and the game just feels better. i really the lore in this area too its reallllly getting me pumped to read more
skyworld where you talk to AU for the first time and Ghor cuts the panels
the bosses are much better than prime 2 and 1 and the game just feels better. i really the lore in this area too its reallllly getting me pumped to read more
Bryo is the best planet in the entire trilogy
#truestory.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Keep dat MP3 love comin!
Thanks, but design/art did 99% of the work there. Nearly all the functionality was there from the prime games. There were a couple of "dynamic" camera sequences in Returns, we just didn't build gameplay around it.
I read somewhere that Nintendo uses an approach of dividing every level in 4 steps:
- Intro: you are presented with a new mechanic in a controlled environment so you can safely understand how it works.
- Development: you are presented a challenge to overcome by using the new mechanic.
- Crazyness: something crazy happens, so you have to think of different ways to use that new mechanic to overcome the obstacle.
- End: Everything is mixed together so you have to demonstrate all that you have learned up to that point.
I think this way of designing platform levels is very evident in Mario 3D World & Land. The feeling I got after playing any level of these games was that everything was very clean and very organized, but in a way that the level flowed between the different steps without you being conscious of it. I haven´t played Tropical Freeze (yet, it´s on my list) so I don´t know if Retro followed this principles, but somethings that Lathentar said have reminded me of Miyamoto´s tips for designers, so maybe Retro also uses this approach?
EDIT:
Found the link to an interview with 3D Land´s Director Koichi Hayashida that explains this much better than I did:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/168460/the_structure_of_fun_learning_.php
Nocturnowl
Member
I swear it somehow comes off even better looking than Prime 3.
Impeccable environment design led to rooms that really feel alive.
Playing Echoes immediately after prime makes this more obvious, it is a big step up.
Thank you so much for this OP - Verger! Metroid is the reason why I still game today and it's an amazing thing to see that someone took the care it deserves for an awesome thread like this one. I agree with everything that was indicated in the OP.
Again, thank you and great work!!!
Again, thank you and great work!!!
MindCollizion
Member
It's formatted as FAT. it's a micro with sd adapter. 2gb. The capitalization is small letters I haven't tried all capitals. I didn't know it was supposed to be all capitals.
The Xtortionist
Member
I was thinking on an even smaller scale, like if we accept that those concepts generally form a larger frame, the execution of each one is still highly variable. But it sounds like the exact designs down to the smallest level are based more on gut feelings of what's good or not.
Frankenstrat
Member
I finally beat Metroid Prime. Owned it in some way or another for almost 12 years now, and I finally beat it. Feels pretty good.
Yeah it is. Can't wait to play 3 for the first time after these two.
Yeah it is. Can't wait to play 3 for the first time after these two.
I beat Metroid Prime for the first time!
Wow, what a thoroughly enjoyable game. The manner in which the areas all intersect with each other and level design is absolute top notch. On reflection is surprisingly how much drive I had to play through the game despite no real 'story' or signposting of what to do next. That the game is from two generations ago and still holds up perfectly is a credit to Retro Studios.
However, slight criticism. The jumping and use of the grapple was at times frustrating due to a lack of precision. I suppose I haven't played many other first person perspective games with such a large amount of 'platforming', I did feel it could have been a bit better. Another minor complaint is that scanable objects could have been highlighted greater. I finished with 79% completion and would be hard pressed to go back and find what I missed.
All in all, how has there not been a Metroid Prime 4?
Wow, what a thoroughly enjoyable game. The manner in which the areas all intersect with each other and level design is absolute top notch. On reflection is surprisingly how much drive I had to play through the game despite no real 'story' or signposting of what to do next. That the game is from two generations ago and still holds up perfectly is a credit to Retro Studios.
However, slight criticism. The jumping and use of the grapple was at times frustrating due to a lack of precision. I suppose I haven't played many other first person perspective games with such a large amount of 'platforming', I did feel it could have been a bit better. Another minor complaint is that scanable objects could have been highlighted greater. I finished with 79% completion and would be hard pressed to go back and find what I missed.
All in all, how has there not been a Metroid Prime 4?
Metroid Prime 2 thankfully majorly improves scanning. Glad to see you enjoyed my favorite game so much!
The best example in gaming of how to tell a Story without actually "telling a story" (ie. via expensive Cinematics and HD spectacle graphics) in gaming IMO.
I can agree with the grapple not being precise as I had trouble with it myself. Scanning too was definitely a bit rough in Prime 1 and was heavily refined and streamlined for the better in Prime 2 and 3.
Because of Other M.
And probably/sadly because I could see Nintendo doesn't feel like an HD Metroid Prime would be a good investment that would yield a success in the marketplace. I have a feeling Corruption didn't perform to expectations.
Well, then there was also Donkey Kong Country Returns as far as Retro goes which I think outsold each Metroid Prime game. Though Tropical Freeze probably won't reach that same success (which is probably more a Wii U thing) sadly either.
Hopefully Retro will be given Metroid again one day. Though I have a hard time believing Nintendo would rebuff one of their own close employees in Sakamoto by giving "his" franchise away to Retro again.
This is exactly what I thought. If you go through prime and then right into echoes you can appreciate all the little change and refinements that are in Echoes.
Donkey Kong Country Returns sold a little over 5 million copies worldwide I think.
Metroid Prime sold around 2 million (such a shame)
Metroid Prime 2 sold less than a million, 800K at last count (even more of a shame)
Metroid Prime 3 sold about 1.31 million WW at last count (better than 2, but still a damn shame)
There are no numbers for the Prime Trilogy edition, but since Nintendo only had it on store shelves for a few months it's probably for the best.
When you look at the numbers it really is a damn shame the series didn't sell better. It's just an amazing compilation of fun and immersive gaming that more people should experience.
I absolutely cannot fault Nintendo/Retro for continuing on with DKCRTF after the sales of DKCR (and am glad since TF is an even better game, and at the very least it gave us godly David Wise music again). And I am just as sad to hear that game only seems to have sold a few hundred thousand copies. But again that is probably more to do with the Wii U.
I suppose that perhaps TF's "failure" may possibly give Nintendo the incentive to have Retro either go back to Metroid or try something new.
Alex_Mexico
Member
True. But it's also true that DKCR launched on the massively successful Wii and right after New Super Mario Bros Wii proved to be a monumental success while MP1 and 2 released on the worst selling Nintendo console of all time. MP3 is a little unfair to compare because it launched so early in the Wii's lifecycle AND it was the third in a trilogy.
If Retro is working on a new Metroid for WiiU it will be interesting to compare how it does versus DKCTF.
those numbers aren't acurrate. Nintendo did release updated figures recently.
if you add them up, you'll see that DKCR alone is more than mp1+2+3. Trilogy probably sold too low to make a difference.
earlier games than mp3 could break several million. TP is the second best selling Zelda and the bulk came from the Wii version. being early is not a problem if the game kept selling over time but mp3 lacked that.
Alex_Mexico
Member
What's your source that confirms DKCTF sold only "a few hundred thousand copies"? That's really sad to hear but then again not entirely unexpected due to the WiiU's comparatively pathetic installed base.
I think it´s a mix of both things: the "exact" design is based on gut feelings and in iterations, but the "main" design will influence it too. For example, you may start the level by laying out a series of easy jumps with a floor and stair-like layout of blocks so the player can play with the jump mechanics in a safe environment. If he fails a jump, he can climb the stair blocks and try again. Then, you follow that with a more complicated series of narrower platforms at different heights and introduce death. Next, you introduce a short series of moving platforms and in the end you introduce a sequence of moving platforms at different heights mixed with narrow stationary platforms.
Even though this 4-step design philosophy didn´t set the detailed level design, it did help you on getting a starting point to flesh out the details from there. Where each platform goes, the speed at which they move, etc...will be decided based on "guts" and iteration, but at least you have a frame to work on and that will influence the details.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
That's about what I've seen floating around GAF but I have no idea how accurate it is or what the source is.
TheMoon
Member
over 440k in NA plus it was #58 in Germany's Top 100 games of 2014 sales charts (without concrete numbers attached) + 118.774 in Japan. The game is well over half a million and will surely cross the magic number at some point but it's not the big success that Returns was, sadly. Despite being so much better on all fronts.
